Personal Group Holdings (LSE:PGH) — Investor Presentation

0:01 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the PERSONAL GROUP HOLDINGS PLC Investor Presentation. Screen. Please just simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today, and we'll publish those responses where it's appropriate to do so on the Investor Meet company platform. And before we begin, I would just like

0:32 to submit the following poll, which will appear on your screens now. And I would now like to hand you over to the management team from PERSONAL GROUP HOLDINGS. Paula, Sarah, good afternoon. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, everybody. What better way to spend a Friday afternoon than to listen to us and our our results, but we're very delighted to be here. I'm Paula Constant. I've been the chief exec of PERSONAL GROUP for seven months now. I'm looking forward to taking you through my findings from the first six to seven months, a little bit about the reason that I joined PERSONAL GROUP, and then particularly around the opportunities for us moving forward. But first, I think for anyone that that doesn't know the group at all, it's a very straightforward slide to explain what we do. So, essentially, we are about providing affordable benefits and services.

1:32 It focuses across employee health, well-being, and engagement. We've got over 1,600,000 employees, and we have a number of services that we we provide under that umbrella banner. So as you can see on the right hand side, a huge part of our business, really the foundation of our business forty years ago is around insurance. We sell a number of affordable insurance policies

1:58 to clients via a, you know, a business engagement with an employer, and then we travel face to face to talk to their employees about a number of insurance options. And in in the main, we do that in tandem with our benefits platform software, but we do also supply some insurance only propositions to to clients as well so it can be quite flexible. Our benefits platform, it really offers a range of discounts, vouchers, collaboration, reward and recognition, engagement tools, a fantastic well-being and health module, and a number of other benefits in in that space as well. And that's evolved through the history of the company to a really compelling SaaS platform that we'll we'll talk about later.

2:50 We've got a pay and reward consultancy division and two consultancies that we've brought together over the course of last year that play in a broad space and offer some some real differentiation in in terms of digital and independent pay and reward advice. And then we we have a technology resale division as well. Let's connect. So there's lots of elements to our business, but all delivering under that that banner of employee well-being and and support. So that's a little bit about the the company. And, Sarah, I think, will whisk through the finances in a couple of slides just to pull out some of our key highlights. So over to you.

3:36 Let's pull up. Yeah. So I'm just gonna start with the the summary results. So we saw a very strong performance in the second half of the year resulting in our EBITDA growing 35% year on year. In in a second, I'm gonna take you through the different revenue streams from the divisions that Paul has just spoken about. But broadly in here, we saw revenue growth across all of the areas outside the Let's Connect, which is that family sacrifice division. Whilst revenue remains stable, what we've effectively done is replacing with a lower margin income that we get from Let's Connect with higher quality income from insurance and benefit. We've also, as a company, historically, we paid out a large percentage of our our profits as dividends. So around about the 80 to 85% mark.

4:23 We announced the final dividend of 5.85 p in line with the interim dividend earlier in the year, taking us up to 11.7p for the full year, which is 4010% up year on year. And then as a business, again, we're in a very strong financial position. We're very cash generative. At the end of December, had cash and deposits of just over 20,000,000 and no debt. And, obviously, this is in a really good good position for any investments that we want to make going forward to ADR growth. And then just just before I go through the segmental results, just a quick reminder or introduction for those of you who haven't been on before around various revenue streams in each of those divisions. So insurance, very straightforward in terms of premium income that we get into the insurance policies.

5:10 The benefits platform, predominantly that SaaS subscriptions, so this digital platform subscriptions either on an annual basis or a monthly basis from people using our benefits platform. But also alongside that, we also make some money from commissions from benefits that sit on that platform. That can be the discounts, checking vouchers, and the like that people can buy at discounted rate. We obviously make make a margin on that. Also, some of the other employee benefits such as cycle to work or salary loans. But, again, at the end end employee takes one of those schemes out, we make some commission on that that transaction. Just in terms of paying rewards, so the consultancy division, again, good good percentage of that is straight consultancy income, but they also have some digital products to do with pay pay benchmarking, job evaluation type tools, but they also sell all the SaaS models, so annual subscriptions means play there. And then finally, the other end benefits, let's connect, is essentially a retail sale. So we will make a retail sale of a a, you know, a laptop or something to for the employer, get the retail margin essentially on that that sale.

6:18 And then the end user, the end employee will then have a separate salary sacrifice arrangement with their their employer. That's just a brief overview of the different revenue stream. So just looking at the performance in year, so you can see the breakdown by those four key areas. In terms of insurance, we had a record year for new insurance sales, which is fantastic, 11,800,000. And alongside really strong retention rates, year on year retention rates in particular for our existing policyholders, we saw the size of the insurance book increase to 31,600,000. So 13% growth since the end of the previous year. And the majority of those policies are on weekly or monthly rolling contracts. And we collect the premiums through payroll deduction and employers make payroll deduction and half those premiums onto us. So very steady and reliable income flow.

7:09 And then in terms of the contribution from insurance, the loss ratio on the on the insurance book remains stable at 27%. And then we also saw in our insurance expenses relatively stable. We've got the field sales team up to the level that we need to get it at now. So an increased margin coming through from insurance with EBITDA up 24%. Moving on to the benefits platform. So this is a combination of our happy platform that we sell to enterprise clients and SME distribution channels that we stage to to sell stage employee benefits. So, again, the annual recurring revenue there up to 6,100,000 at the end of the year. Relatively equal growth seen across the HAPI and the SME solutions. And then revenue in year up slightly more than that growth because of the commissions that I spoke about a second ago that come to the platform. We would see more of those coming through in 2023.

8:04 In terms of EBITDA margin, up 34. And again, obviously, any scale we can get onto that benefit platform is obviously an element of fixed costs associated with it. So the more we can grow the top line, the the best the margin should be over time. Pay and reward. So the consultancy division probably didn't have quite the year we were hoping it would have. You may have seen a set for r and s that came out the same time as our results around a new contract win with a major airline. That's the biggest contract win that that that division has ever had. It basically was slightly late than we were anticipating. So in year 2023, not quite as good as we were hoping, but obviously set them up in a a very good footing for 2024. And then other own benefits, so let's connect.

8:51 So any of you that have been on our presentations before will know this time last year, we spoke about let's connect losing their sort of major clients. So that that business has significantly downsized during the year resulting in sort of 33% increase decrease in their revenue. I think in terms of profit, it probably hit the numbers we were expecting it to hit. Obviously, with the loss of that major client, we did operationally downsize that area to to make it as efficient as possible. And then just in terms of some of the other areas on there, in terms of other, so really, the increase there is because of the increased interest rates. So the cash and deposits that we hold for the insurance subsidiaries, obviously, benefited from increased interest rates during the year. And in terms of group having an essential cost, we have seen an increase year on year. No one thing individually coming into play there. I think what we spoke this time last year about element of failed acquisition cost coming into play.

9:45 Obviously had a change of CEO during the year, which has resulted in sort of one off additional costs. And then generally, inflationary costs around salaries, insurances, our own group insurances and the like, also individually contributing to the increase there. But just before I leave this slide, probably just to highlight the red box on the left hand table and that 38,300,000 sort of combination of all the recurring type revenues that we have across the business. Obviously, at 38,300,000 at the end of the year, and it will start 2024. I think it's really good visibility of the the the income we've already got in the bag, I guess, all banks that we we can get good visibility of our results coming into 2024. So that's probably the summary for me. I mean, just to pull out the highlights really, you know, we've seen the underlying growth continue and the recurring revenue streams are up significantly across both insurance and the subscription.

10:42 Insurance contribution is continuing to strengthen and and push up our EBITDA number, and we're in a very strong financial position from investment and future growth. So I will now hand it to Paula to talk to you about the strategy. Thank you. So the first slide was one that I took to investors when I first met them in September, a couple of months in. I think it's just coming. And, you know, one of the questions that was on people's minds was what's, you know, what's great about the business, and what did you like through your interview, and has that proved true when you finally arrived in the business? So the good news is it has proved true, it continues to prove true. I don't know if it's showing through on on people's screens, but, hopefully, we'll get there. We will get there. There we go.

11:38 So and, you know, there are many great things about the business, but the things that struck me when I was looking at the business through interview were super strong insurance business. And as you can see from from the results, we have a very high level of of year on year retention. We're happy with the studying, you know, claims, churn rates. And last year, we hit our best ever month, day, week, hour, every possible permutation that you could think of, which is really good news, but also gives us a lot of hope and ambition moving into this year that we can do more. And we possibly did that on the on the background of, you know, some good analytical data, but not the kind of level of data that I would expect to be working with in the business given, you know, my my heartland of of, you you know, know, various kind of operational and COO jobs coming up through, particularly, my telco days and particularly my time at BT and Openreach. So we've now built a a big suite of data that we are exploring at Pace, and it it tells us a lot about about the field force, which I will answer on the next slide and hopefully weave in some of the the questions that are coming through this. There's a good good question there. And with that that dimension in the field force, I'll I'll I'll touch on them. Probably the best the best thing though about the business, I mean, it's great that it's repeatable

13:10 repeatable revenue, repeatable custom, and, you know, it's fantastic that we've made the progress that we've made with a lot of hard work and great that we've got more insight to do more. But our clients and and customers are consistently saying, you know, this is this is affordable, dependable insurance. It really reaches a sector of the organization where, you know, insurance really matters and insurance isn't isn't necessarily available and and presented to them by employer schemes. So, you know, we're very confident that it addresses a, you know, an important need in society. So very happy that we have a strong insurance business, and we continue to grow that pace. Secondly, I was very excited about running another SaaS platform, you know, that we we we own and build in house. I've I've run a number now over the course of my my career. And, you know, this is a great piece of engagement software. We're very proud of what we've delivered now with the upgrade to Happy two from Happy one. When I met investors in September, we had gone live internally with our new platform, and we were just laying the groundwork to accelerate through migration, which, you know, is is great now to say that we've migrated over 600 plus of our Sage clients. It will actually be double that number by the end of the day, but I didn't manage to get that that number in time for the presentation.

14:37 And we've got over 200 clients, you know, new clients, predominantly Sage clients and some of our happy happy clients live as well. So and, you know, it's it's been great to go live with, you know, no customer pain. So very, very happy with the progress so far. I'm looking forward to the rest of the migration through the course of the year so that we can, you know, get get on to the next stage of our strategy. It's good that we've won our first of what I hope is many technology business awards for our solution. Solution. And I think the the research that I'll just share in the next few slides show that that we really have something that's highly applicable to SME and enterprise, not not just as a complete offering with insurance to bigger enterprise players, but also, you know, really strong contender in the SME space.

15:31 So, you know, we're very happy with the direction that we are going in with Happy and, you know, more to do as there is with anything. And then finally, the safety partnership, we are over 4,000 clients now onboarded, and that gives us access to about 60,000 employees. It's a brilliant proof point for us that we've got access to the SME market at scale as well as proof point to other partnerships that that don't play in the same space as Sage, and aren't of the same scale. We're very proud of our our Sage relationship, and we're looking forward to completing the migration and then looking at the opportunities going forward. So so that gives you a sense about, you know, the the kind of key things that I thought could be great opportunities for growth in the business and are proving to be so.

16:23 Okay. Moving on to our next slide. So six or seven months in, what have I been focusing on? These are the three areas that that we certainly talk about very broadly in the businesses, you know, the three priorities for us to to really press into and fix. So firstly, on strategy, you know, it's clear to me from our employees and and from our shareholding base that, you know, we now need to look at what is the big opportunity for the business. You know, we're very stable. We're very dependable. We're very predictable. Where could we get to in the next three to five years' time? Busy gathering data and insights to answer that question.

17:09 Sarah and I have just completed a really thorough market segmentation exercise across benefits and insurance. So, I mean, we've we've started there clearly clearly because, you know, they're big areas of business and and particularly because we haven't invested in insurance activity other than organic growth of of face to face in the last few years. So clearly, questions are, you know, what more of the market is there to go at and what more could you do in insurance? And then the same questions for benefits. So, you know, we'll be working through the rest of the business strategy and course through through the year. On the sales side, there's been lots of forensic work around both b to b and b to c. So, you know, b to b are the conversations that we would have with employers, predominantly HR directors and other senior members of businesses for benefits and insurance as well as, you know, separate conversations for home award and and let's connect. But we've been really focusing on the the benefits and insurance b to b journey.

18:15 So we've got a huge deal of segmentation now across every channel. We're very clear about the channels that we should be using and that that will have the maximum impact for benefits and for insurance and and and lots more metrics about our, you know, our lead to opportunity, our opportunity to conversion. So I think, you know, the the groundwork on the numbers is done and now, you know, we can be very focused and targeted. On insurance and more of the, you know, the b to c conversation, we've got a huge suite of data now which looks at the portion of time that we spend on various activities activities and really helps us to help our employees, you know, to optimize conversations around both benefits and insurance. So as you can imagine, there will be conversations around customer care and other elements that, you know, we can direct to different parts of the business and, you know, just just ways to try and reduce unnecessary activity or unnecessary travel and and, you know, make the experience brilliant for employees as well as for customers.

19:24 So lots of opportunity to go up there, lots of opportunity to look at the the kind of presentation level, the kind of, you know, conversion level at every stage of our organization. So what do we expect from people coming in at the beginning, and what do we expect from people that have got experience. And we've also covered information by sector as well, so it's very clear to us to see what level of competence serves, what level of sector, etcetera. So, you know, we are we are surrounded by data in the moment and and, you know, regularly that will help us make some some really good decisions going forward. We have just under 50 face to face sales executives, and that number is kind of varied between, you know, low forties to high forties, I think, over a number of years.

20:22 And, you know, with an organization of that size, you know, you can you can clearly understand the individuals in the business that we would also, as well as going out on the road, see, you know, quarterly and a quarterly business review as well as other business events. So, you know, coming from an operations background, I've taken, you know, quite a bit of time to go out with different people in different areas and really understand, you know, the the path of a a day in the business and and how the conversations progress. And I've been really pleased with what I've seen, you know, but clearly, there's more we can do around processes and technology and etcetera as well as coaching and other techniques. So I think, you know, as always with any operation, you know, there's always more to do, and it's been great to see our operation engaging

21:15 so proactively with, you know, a slightly new approach and a new set of data and a new chief operating officer that came in at the beginning of January and primarily focus on on all of those things. And then, you know, lots of analysis around how we onboard customers for Sage. We've got numerous different routes of of customers onboarding. Once they've had the initial conversation. Some onboard through digital channels, some onboard through welcome calls. So it's just been really good to understand the right approach for the right size of business and lots more to do in all of those spaces as there always is in any business. And then finally, on simplification, I've talked about my new chief operating officer.

22:02 I have a number of other new people around my table and some, you know, moves of of my existing leadership and some moves out. And, you know, we've we're now just thinking about any other roles and capability that that we need to plug in the business going forward. But particularly, really now about where we've got rework, where can we remove work, where can we make lives simpler for everybody. And then it may sound quite straightforward, but a set of financial and operational objectives that cascade from top to bottom always helps people drive in the right direction. So so lots of activity and lots of energy operating a lot of pace with some pleasing results coming through.

22:52 Okay. On to the next slide on sorry. There's three slides now, and then that's the the the kind of the the end of the presentation. And these are quite information heavy heavy, so but please try and ping some, you know, questions as we go through. And I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to read QA in parallel and with some help from Sarah. So I think I've probably answered bits of your questions, Ed, but I will come back and answer more as we go through. Through. The questions we were trying to answer on the analysis that we did on the benefits platform were

23:28 where and why do we need a benefits platform in a conversation where we've got an opportunity with insurance? And And then then also, you know, where does the benefits platform play in its own right, and the the findings were really pleasing. So to summarize a a 200 slide pack in one simple slide for you in in five minutes, Essentially, you know, we're very pleased that we've got a very strong offer, particularly for SME and mid enterprise. So it's clear, you know, that we will continue to play in those areas and be very specific about our focus.

24:06 Set up a number of online interviews for SMEs and then engage the same company that set up the online interviews to conduct face to face interviews with a number of bigger enterprise customers that that either used our services or used competitor services. So, you know, we were happy to see that over 5050% of SMEs strongly recognized and or used the the Sage employee benefits, you know, which is obviously our our product and and, you know, super positive feedback about the features and functionality and and the use in the business. But there was equally a strong recognition, although to a lesser percentage across SMEs and enterprises, of the Happy brand in its own right alongside competitive brands. So that was very pleasing for us.

24:59 A number of the other questions also addressed the features and functionality. So asked, you know, what's great about Happy, what's great about competitor products, and it was it was good to see that our reward and recognition capability, our strong account management, and, of course, what we've now built in Happy, which is extremely strong, you know, app user experience were, you know, very, very favorable. So, you know, we're very clear how we can win in the market, but also against specific competitors, which is super helpful. So I think we've got a strong proposition. Secondly, there's plenty to go at. 50% of SME customers have no proposition or cobbled together potentially technology, potentially not technology solutions. So there's some white space there that we should be very well positioned with our success And, you know, there's some clear segments that will appeal to us, particularly where there's an insurance opportunity as well. And then I think finally, clients are sticky.

26:07 You know, 90% of SME customers say that once they bought a platform, you know, they're not that willing to change. It's an expensive transition to change. It's a lesser percentage for enterprises, but it's still quite high, you know, 50 to 70%. So, you know, we're clearly looking at opportunities to increase stickiness for our base, but also to be relevant for competitor bases where we are more likely, you know, to to gain from providing our our services than, you know, potentially going head to head to to win a customer from a competitor. So I think and and that that that's not an unknown feature, I think, in the marketplace, and there will be other competitors that have come to the same conclusion as us on that. So and and, you know, there's there's always opportunity for us with the, you know, the real individual characteristics of what we have in insurance to be useful to other benefit platform providers as well, especially in sectors where we won't won't typically play.

27:14 Moving on to the insurance slides, and then I'll just come back and and and try and address any questions. So two questions that we try to answer in insurance. The first was, is there headroom to play in the same way that we're doing today with face to face insurance? And the answer to that, quite simply on the slide is, yes. There is. There are 10,000,000 employees that receive either no sick pay or partial sick pay. The policies that we provide today broadly fit in that sick pay category. Within within the category of of those that don't receive or receive very little sick pay, we are prevalent today in 12% of enterprises, companies supporting them.

28:04 And within those customers, we we typically have around an average of 12% penetration. It does vary by by client. So, you know, there's clearly some headroom. It doesn't mean that the headroom is the entirety of the, you know, one minus 12% of 12%. But there are, you know, there are many sectors and many other, you know, roads to further penetration within the clients that we have that that we can explore. So we just need to be very focused about what we do first. Secondly, I think the middle column, you know, really gives good confirmation that when we approach new customers, you know, they're very keen to see employee benefits and insurance, you know, sold together.

28:56 And they're very keen to see, you know, the use of one to one and face to face as a differentiator. So, you know, they they got they like the fact that, you know, we put a whole benefits proposition together with insurance. They like the fact that, you know, we're, you know, very unique in having having one to one face to face contact. And I think the other really strong thing is that against a a sea of brands, including really big high street insurance names, The recognition of PERSONAL GROUP, you know, was was as high as one in four people, which was, you know, very reassuring to us that we have a well established strong brand. So that was very compelling. And then finally, you know, of all the sectors to go after, transport production logistics still remain large sectors. That's our heartland, really, of where we are present with benefits and insurance.

29:54 And health and retail are huge sectors, and there'll be specific parts of that sector that we want to play in further. So, you know, examples of customers that have got the ability to send a face to face, you know, engagement executive to to a venue with lots of employees there. You know, typically, we would be looking for something around, you know, 500 to a thousand employees in one place plus to make sense of the economics. So I think, you know, we've got some real key focuses there. And, again, you know, construction less relevant for face to face insurance, but clearly a dominant sector that we could provide digital insurance to and the dominant sector of the same base of customers that we serve as well. So lots of opportunity to play more in the areas that we're in and to broaden some of our sector coverage.

30:53 And then finally, the questions that we asked, you know, clients were, are you looking to broaden your benefits options with insurance and or other elements? And if it's insurance, what are the things you're considering? So across means and enterprises, there was a, you know, a a large majority of 80 plus customers that would want to offer broader insurance solutions. Certainly, there is definite pressure on employers to now self fund options that, obviously, we provide as employee funded. So, you know, that's a that's a big advantage to us because, you know, we'll still be very relevant across that blue collar space, but, you know, it makes sense for us to explore how we can offer parallel services on the the employer side. So that's gonna be a a key area that we're gonna explore going forward.

31:53 We've broadly looked at three buckets of insurance, so income protection, personal insurance, and health benefits, you know, each of which have got, various growth potential. Clearly, big opportunity for us is health benefits, both preventative and treatment options where there's high growth. There are many options to explore, and these are some of the options on the right hand side. Low cost treatment cash plans would offer good adjacencies to what we do today. Low cost PMI, larger cash plan options should also be considered. We would look at a, you know, a a partner to build and a buy strategy and, you know, potentially then partner with with other options that that might not be right for building. So I think all options are open to us.

32:44 The key is to work really at pace now to understand what's the right building block so that we can expand our portfolio potentially across employer and employee funded health and well-being benefits, but particularly insurances. And, you know, there there are probably many other options to consider, and and that's our challenges, I've said, to press at that through PACE and through this year. So I think just to conclude, and then I think I'll just see if I can leave anything else from the questions in. You can see that we're very proud of the strong repeatable business that we that we deliver.

33:29 It's fantastic to run a company with 80% plus repeatable revenue and a strong trend of that in the past and and to come. We are clearly playing in the right segments today, but there's also a large addressable addressable target market. And, you know, there are clear options for strategic growth to maximize shareholder value. So hopefully hopefully, that gives you a good flavor of, you know, where I've been over the last six months, what I'm excited about and still remain excited about, and, you know, some really quite huge and exciting opportunities for us strategically going forward. You know, the key is for us to really focus on on what's gonna turn the dial without doing too much.

34:17 I think I've probably answered most of the the questions on the operational side of the field force and insurance, and I thought these were a great set of questions, Ed. So if I come back to the consumer duty elements at the end, I think Sarah and I are very hands on in the business and, obviously, as you can see with a a suite of numbers. We regularly meet, as I've said, you know, new hires go out in the field, encourage the rest of the organization to go out in the field, meet people at the the quarterly reviews, meet people at our annual reviews as well. So, you know, we're a small business. We're we're 250 ish employees.

35:07 So, you know, from that sense, it's it's quite straightforward. On consumer duty, it's something that we're obviously, you know, hugely conscious of and aware of and acting on. We've obviously increased the level of governance over the last year. In fact, probably eighteen months ago, we really looked at the remuneration of our employees in in the field force and brought in a a even more robust set of measures that we already have, you know, regularly look at compliance, regularly surface, you know, recordings for the board to listen to as we we did only a few weeks ago. So, you know, it's it's front of mind, not just with the business that we run today, but also in terms of anything that we progress in the in the future, you know, be that be that buy build partner.

36:02 You know, it has to be a core focus for us. We are developing, you know, a number of options just for our existing product portfolio that that customers have, you know, talked about on our field force have raised, you know, to look at how we kind of enhance policies to provide, you know, more benefit. And then, you know, there'll be a number of options that we continue to look at as we we build a plan around affordable insurance. I don't know if you want to talk a bit more about about that or unless I've said enough. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, from the consumer duty element, we are serving a market that's sort of probably underserved from an income protection perspective. And the way that we sell face to face is probably the only one of the only ways that we can actually get that that audience and for them to have, you know, access to those insurance types. So it does come at a cost, which obviously, in turn, means that our loss ratio, yeah, has to be slightly lower for us to be comfortable overall.

37:06 But I think also, you know, the FCA isn't directly going to be such in crisis. The other piece to bear in mind is that the premiums are very low. I mean, our our typical policy, you know, for 50 pounds of my coverage, it's probably the cost of us, you know, cup of coffee a week. But they are very low value, low premium products, which can still pay out significant benefits if somebody were to go to hospital for three months, you know, can get paid in the thousands of pounds. I can probably just ask the other one actually quickly on Sage because the Sage, I think we announced in in February 22, but it was a five year five year contract with them. I think yeah. Oh, I've got a couple of things together. Yeah. I mean, I think I think there's a question about, you know, excitement about the opportunity ahead.

38:01 I mean, clearly, I hope this explains that there's more ground to go at in the benefit space. There's there's certainly lots of different avenues that we can go down, you know, all additive in the insurance space. And probably the, you know, the feedback from investors has been even with those two dimensions alone, you know, there's a lot of lot of things that you're talking about. So, you know, let's see that really fine tuned, you know, palette of options now going forward for the rest of the year, you know, which we'd hope to share back to investors in due course. I'll just check if there are any more. Wider insurance sales, travel, house insurance. I think I think our conclusion from the work that we've done is neither SMEs nor enterprises put, you know, personal insurance higher upon their agenda.

39:00 And, obviously, you know, we would want to exercise a level of, you know, of of caution, particularly around consumer duty about the areas that we went into. So, we'll certainly be surfacing personal insurance offers by partners on our platform, but but it's but it's unlikely to be an area that we move into, you know, from a buy build perspective. Yeah. The last couple of I guess there's one there on onboarding a new insurance client. But, yeah, I I think it depends. It's it's the reality depending on what what kind of organization that the field sales team are going into. But on average, you know, we expect our policies to last around five years, and it's probably broadly around the year mark before we get the sort of payback on having sent somebody out there face to face, what is the cost of their salary and commission for their cars and the you know, all the infrastructure that goes with it. But broadly, that one.

40:04 And in terms of success rate, I mean, you you sort of, you know, we have various various levels of presentations that take place. So the the individual sales force will go out and sit down with an individual employee to talk to their benefits platform. It's broadly about half the people they will go out have available to them, will sit down and talk about the benefits platform, and half again will sit down by insurance. Around half of those will actually then be fine in a day. You stole my stats. That's alright. You can answer the question. We're fighting over question answering here. Mhmm. Okay. Any any more questions? Paula, Sarah, if I may just jump back in there at this point. And thank you very much indeed for your presentation and this afternoon, and also for being so generous of your time then addressing every single question that came in for investors. And, of course, if there are any further questions that do come through, we'll make these available to you immediately after the presentation has ended, just for you to review to then add any additional responses, of course, where it's appropriate to do so, and we'll publish all those responses out on the platform.

41:05 But, Paula, perhaps before really just looking to redirect those on the call to provide you with their feedback, which I know is particularly important to yourself and the company, if I could please just ask you for a few closing comments to wrap up with, that'd be great. Okay. I mean, I think I think I've, you know, probably already stolen my own thunder. So, you know, hugely excited with the opportunity ahead. Brilliant, strong, repeatable business, super growth in the last year. You know, we're excited about the trajectory this year and lots of options to crystallize and focus on to deliver more. So thank you very much. Perfect, Paula. That's great. And thank you once again for updating investors this afternoon. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order the management team can really better understand your views views and expectations.

42:01 This will only take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure it'll be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of PERSONAL GROUP HOLDINGS PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. So good afternoon to you all. Thank you. Bye.