PCF Group (GPW:PCF) — Interim Results

0:00 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the PCF GROUP PLC Interim Results Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and could be submitted at any time via the Q and A tab. It's just situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Please just simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all of the questions submitted today and publish responses where it is appropriate to do so. These will be available via your investor meet company dashboard, and we will notify you by email when these are ready for your review. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And if you could give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company would be most grateful. And I'd now like to hand you over to CEO, Gary Strand, and CFO, Caroline Richardson. First, if I may hand over to Tim Pearson. Good morning.

0:53 Morning, Jake. Thank you. Thank you everyone for joining. I'll hand you over to Gary in just a second. Just to let you know, we're aware that there've been some sound issues and visual issues in the past. This should be this should probably be from your end because the quality and the sound is all good from our end. There will always be a recording of this available afterwards if you are unable to hear any of the things on this website on the investment company platform afterwards. Jake just mentioned about questions that may not be able to be answered. Today, they will be unable to answer questions which cover culpability and liability for what has taken place. Awesome. Thank you for coming and joining, and I'll hand over to Gary to stop. Thanks very much, Tim. Everybody. I think before we go into the presentation itself, just a few things I'd like to say to put some context and hopefully help people understand some of the

1:51 sequences the of events here. So, look, we are aware that shareholders are disappointed. We get feedback direct from shareholders, and we read the message boards. So, look, a few observations. Firstly, we are a triple regulated bank. We're regulated by the PRA, the FCA, and AIM. And that means the bar on us from a regulatory perspective probably about as high as it possibly can be, and that's the price we pay for low cost low cost deposits. That's the yin and the yang of the low cost deposits. I've read some feedback from people suggesting that that there there have been alleged breaches of regulatory reporting.

2:37 Just wanna be clear there. There are this is not alleged. There were breaches of regulatory reporting, and this undermines confidence in integrity. And therefore, there's no option for us to fully assess that and to remediate that pace. And that costs and it costs a lot because banking is an expensive business. If you are in the market for low cost deposits as being a bank, you have to accept the cost of being a bank is high and the cost of remediation is high. And also where the people feel that we haven't given full explanations or well well documented, I think, is a term that I read. I believe that we have given very clear explanations, and I believe that we have documented as far as we possibly can given the limitations on us what actually happened at PCF.

3:32 And in particular, our RNS that we issued on the 06/28/2021, which was a very lengthy RNS, couldn't have have been been more explicit about the issues that we faced. We followed that up with a number of announcements and statements in the annual report of accounts. So I think that we have done our very best to be as open and transparent as we possibly can be for a regulated listed business. And I think just to finish, I know people would expect me to say this, but it's true. The board board believed that there was no option but to take these actions because we needed to regain confidence.

4:18 We needed to preserve value as much as we can in all in order to create a firm foundation for growth. And we hadn't dealt with these matters in the way that we dealt with them and treated them lightly and other matters had emerged, then I think the consequences for the business and for the personal liability of the directors obvious for anybody to understand. I say all this not to be defensive, but just because I think it's important that people understand the backdrop within which we're operating. So having having said that, I think I'd like to move on to our interim presentation team.

5:00 Okay. So first of all, I I suspect some of you have had the opportunity to read this, but it's fairly self explanatory. We've talked in our reporting around prudent management of capital. And as a result of that, our new business originations did drop over the quarter by 40% to 62,000,000. We made reference that March was a large volume month for us, and that proves that this business can originate at scale and its core competence remains in place. As a result of reduced originations, we have reduced gross loans and advances down 12% to 332,000,000. That's a natural corollary of less lending.

5:45 And as a result, our funding requirement from our customers has reduced in line with our loan in advances. So no surprise that the level of deposits has dropped because if it hadn't, that would have meant that we were incurring an interest cost which would would have have been been disproportionate to the size of the loan book. And the combination of reduced lending a reduced lending book, the increase in running costs for the bank because of our need to build firm foundations and remediation means that we've got a loss before tax of 7,500,000. Some of that reduction in operating income there that you can see to 10.7 is a result of a previous decision to reduce our lending to higher credit group grades during the at the beginning of the COVID pandemic because, ultimately, if you're focusing on higher quality business, there's a reduction in margin, which feeds through into operating income.

6:51 Staff and operating expenses, up at 15,800,000. I know that people are astonished about that. But as I said in my summary, this is a bank which required significant remedial action and that costs. So we are very aware that this is probably going to be the most expensive period for this bank in terms of its cost base as we go through this period, and we would expect that to normalize in due course. The 5.9% net interest margin, a direct corollary of the higher quality business that we're writing now with older, higher yielding business maturing and running off the book. Cost to income ratio is straight mathematics. Return on equity is straight mathematics, per share is straight mathematics.

7:45 So what you see here is the financial output of us addressing the challenges that we had to face that we had to face that we faced. Next slide, please, Steve. So a little bit more about the the look back. Accounting errors and misstatements. The group shares were suspended. I've referred to the 06/28/2021 RNS. I put that up there in the just so that people know. There's a bit that led to a knock on impact on our regulatory reporting. And, of course, our regulatory reporting being being behind the regulatory reporting. There are a number of issues there. There are company's house issues for directors. There are prudential regulator issues in terms of submission of accounts, and there are listing issues, hence, while the shares were suspended.

8:42 I I say this frankly. What Caroline and her team have achieved in effectively producing two years of statutory reporting in six months is nothing short of remarkable. And we are now fully up to date in terms of our reporting, and I see no reason as to why that wouldn't be the case moving forward. The cost of remediation work has impacted profitability, obviously. So some of the things we've done, statutory reporting up to date. The f triple p memorandum, which for those of you who may not be familiar with this, is a document which is required to be viewed to be fit as a as a listed company. We have done a new f triple p.

9:28 That is no mean feat, and we have completely revised our financial control frameworks. People know that, I believe, that the culture of the business was such that we needed to make certain changes. We now have a culture which I'm very, very proud of. People are very open in the way that speak and take responsibility, and we are awaiting the outcome of an audit on all of our cultural improvement programs. So, I hope that that audit reflects my belief. One of the issues with the business is that our risk management frameworks and governance and controls were not up to the level they needed to be for a bank that was listed and growing in the way that PCF was. So we've done we filled some key second line defense roles. So that's our internal independent functions.

10:26 We've done significant work on our stress testing capability and significant work on our credit analytics capability. Anybody who is involved in the banking sector will know that these skills are very much in demand. And, you see the the the results of that in our operating expenses because to attract good people, you have to pay market rate pay. Alongside all of that, we've done some experienced hires because I think that people who've been through situations and have a worth of knowledge are very helpful at a time like this. And the prudent capital management. One of the things that is absolutely key to us is to to make make sure that we have the appropriate level of capital to support our balance sheet.

11:16 And that balance of trying to maximize the size of our balance sheet whilst preserving our cap capital and deploying it in the most effective way both in terms of asset class, the speed at which it recycles, and the yield we get on it against the backdrop of increased operating expenses and losses is a difficult one to triangulate. So there is a lot of effort goes into that prudent capital management.

11:51 I think in terms of next steps and, Carol, do you want to add anything to that? No. It's okay. Yeah. Terms of next steps, we've got an aim to be fully automated as a bank as much as a bank can be. So that's automation of frontline decisioning, automation of our reporting, automation of our audit and control functions, and and we we are are working on that automation. That should improve the customer and partner experience. We should be an easier organization to deal with, quicker decisions, more consistent decisions, more objective decisions. And, obviously, given the issues of the past, ensuring that our control framework is fully fit for purpose and embedded in our business.

12:45 One of the things about banking is that it really only works if you can leverage your economies of scale. We need to get a business which is at scale so that, therefore, we create what I call zero marginal cost operating model. In fact, I don't I'm not the only person who calls it that. Lots of people call it that. Meaning that the incremental cost new assets on our balance sheet reduces and reduces and reduces until effectively our processing cost is at zero because of scale. That requires us to take a very very new approach to our system and drive this data driven decisioning, which I've already talked about. And finally, of course, there are various routes to scale.

13:34 One of the ways that you can get scale is that you get increased levels of capital when you deploy that to grow your balance sheet. Another way is you reach profitability and generate your capital organically to drive growth

13:48 in your balance sheet. And the final way is you look at opportunities and combinations to see whether, actually, that gives you a more certain, faster outcome and creates more value for shareholders and creates more certainty. And you will see from our r and s's that we are actively exploring strategic opportunities to make sure that decisions we take are taken in the round

14:16 always within the best interest of shareholders. So our vision is that we've got an automated data driven digitalized business, strengthened control framework, better service, quicker service, consistent decision making, and making sure that our pricing truly reflects the risks that we're taking and the costs that we incur. And if we can do all of that, we can drive the business back to profitability in the medium term. So that is, really all I've got to say on that presentation. Over to you, Caroline, if you want to add anything to that. Thank you very much. Okay. So happy to take questions.

15:07 Caroline, if I may just jump back in there. Thank you very much indeed for your presentation this morning. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. And just while the company takes a few moments to review those questions submitted already, I would like to remind you that recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via your investor dashboard. Caroline, Gary, as you can see, we have received both a number of pre submitted questions as well as a number of questions that were submitted throughout today's presentation.

15:39 Firstly, can I thank all the investors for submitting their questions? And Tim, if I could please just hand back to you to run through that Q and A tab. And if you could please just read out the questions and then pose them to the team to provide responses where it's appropriate to do so, and then I'll pick up from you at the end. Thank you.

15:56 Thanks, Jake. So first question that we have received was on the net asset value per share as of the date of the interims. So it's 16.5p per share as an asset value. Thank you.

16:17 We've also and, Gary, you touched on this earlier, Sis, whether you there's something you want to add to what you said already about shareholders expecting to learn much more than what's already been touched on you touched on this at the beginning. Yeah. I mean, I know I've touched upon it in the beginning. We've we've been as open and transparent as we can be what happened. It's in the June 28 RMS. It's

16:45 pretty self explanatory. You know, just to refresh people's memory, we discovered that assets had been transferred across group entities without the appropriate legal processes being followed. And as a result of that, that meant that our regulatory reporting was wrong, and we uncovered that the driver for that undocumented inappropriate transfer was to avoid reporting a large exposures breach. And at that moment, there are no options but to do what we did, and what we did is in the public domain. Okay. And what I will do too is add a bit of flavor to that because I know people are hungry for information on this.

17:35 We had a forensic review undertaken to establish whether there were other issues. To give people a feel for that, that involved the forensic assessment of over 60,000 emails. And if there were words in those emails which may have suggested other matters, though each and every one of those instances was investigated fully and remediated. For example, a word like hide. We would take every email that said hide. We would look at it. We would reconcile it in the context, and we would work it through. So that is the level of activity which has gone on in this business.

18:24 Okay. We've had a we've had a number of questions on staffing and operating costs. More so around what what they look like in the future. You mentioned earlier that they're they're probably at the highest point they're going to be. What does the staff staffing and operating costs look like going forward? Caroline, I've said enough. So the operating expenses and the staff costs are obviously very high in this period. And and what we've seen is that average headcount

18:54 increase year on year 20 versus '21. But what we've seen in '22 is very much the full year impact of the hires that we made at the back half of twenty one to to perform the work Gary's Gary's talked about. In addition, you know, the the the remediation activities we've gone through, we've not had the necessary the the capacity, but also the capabilities to do all of that in house. We've needed support from third parties,

19:27 whether that be forensic investigation, whether that be to to give us the technical expertise and support in building out the risk management framework. And, obviously, with the f triple p memo update, as Gary's mentioned, was a large piece of work. We needed support and expertise to do that. So we've reported

19:49 in the interims of 2,900,000 spend on remediation activities. Of that, 1.8 is third party professional services fees, and 1.1 is headcount people related. And that's and those are the people that are dedicate have have been dedicated to remediation activities.

20:12 Now what we see what as remediation comes to an end, we also then want to move into more automation and transformation activities. So some of that headcount will remain for a period period of time, but we expect by interims '23 to be at the point where, you know, we're coming to the end of that remediation work and then headcounts and costs should start to normalize. Thanks, Caroline. I've got a couple of technical questions here on the figures, which we can always answer afterwards as well if we don't have the details straight to hand. I'll leave those to Caroline. So PCF's worth £60,000,000 on the Bank of England term funding scheme. Do you have the average rate of interest paid on the facility and when the facility starts to have to be repaid?

21:05 So the the rate is linked to the bank bursary. So it's it's has been has been low and is increasing in line with in line with the bursary increases. And we can publish you know, we can look at the exact rate and averages. The repayment, I believe the first repayment is in '24, and then starting '24 and through to the end of '25. Thanks. We've also had a on the back, we've also had a couple of questions on NIM. One about broad assessment and the impact of NIM once that facility has been repaid the level also the level of NIM that you hope for over the next couple of years?

21:54 Just a general thing about NIM. Yeah.

21:58 These are quite technical questions, which is probably not right to answer on the back of a fact packet. But, of course, NIM is dependent on a couple of things. One, cost of funds, and the savings market is very, very hot at the moment. And, therefore, making any predictions around what what we will have to pay for money moving forward is difficult. And secondly, it's the it's the commercial nature of how much of that increase in your cost of funds can you pass on to borrowers

22:28 what you are prepared to do in terms of the the level of risk you are prepared to take to drive your yield. And there's a clear link here with our data driven approach because we absolutely believe that by getting a better understanding of our data, we can price better and and make sure that we're accurately pricing for risk in order to maximize NIM. So

22:55 So that's the the commercial oversight of it. I'll leave Caroline to talk about more technical element if she can. Yeah. I think, like, we have a largely fixed book. I think the loans we issue are fixed interest rates, and our deposit funding is largely a fixed base as well. However, you know, interest rates certainly in short to medium term, I mean, your expectations are they will continue to rise, and there could be an ink NIM compression at the time we refinance and or if we can't pass that on to to customers through the loans.

23:37 I think, you know, as as Gary said, it's difficult to predict exactly, and the reality is we should be pricing for risk on the near what on the funding points in particular, which is Which we are, but maybe not to the level of granularity we would like to. Yes. I think what's important on the funding points as well is that we have, you know, we have breadth in our funding and our sources of funding. We don't have to be a 100% dependent on any one aspect of funding because, you know, you know, all your eggs are in one basket and in a stress scenario, that could leave you in a bit of a pickle. So we will will look as the scheme as the term funding scheme comes to an end, we will look to replace it with other similar types of financing to keep that breadth in our funding model.

24:29 And and again, just another thing. One of the things that's very important about our operating model is the more efficient we're getting our operating model, the the more the thinner NIM we can run on. So there is a direct correlation here between the more efficiently we can run our business, the lower level of NIM we need to generate profit. And, of course, that gives you an upside opportunity as well. So these things are all interlinked. Thanks. And touching the first part of your answer there, Gary, we've asked about the the if you can expand a bit more on the investment in data and automation of the business. Yeah. So we there's two elements to this. Number one is a review of the processes that we had in place.

25:19 So across all areas of our main operation, our origination, our payout, our loan servicing, our collections, you have to say, let's look at those processes. Let's understand the component parts of them. Over years, things emerge and come into them that maybe we don't need anymore, and we've done a significant amount of work in terms of refining our current processes to speed them up. So to give you an example, in March when we had a, you know, a very good month, third best month in the company's history, we actually did that with 43% less people actually doing that underwriting. The next stage of that, of course, is to automate those new processes.

26:07 And to do that, you need to invest in systems. In terms of where we are with systems, our systems are not as joined up and as integrated as I would like. And so we are actively pursuing, and I've actually purchased the first module of this, completely integrated system so that human intervention in the underwriting process only takes place where it's absolutely required, and there is a seamless automated journey from low application through to approval through to payout into our core core system of record. So we're putting lots of effort into specing that and and looking at the options to do that as efficiently as we can.

26:53 And then the final piece of that jigsaw is that we've established a data science team who are creating have created a data repository, and that data repository, that data warehouse can then be used to to drive better, faster systems using API type interfaces to third party systems. So, look, can we switch all that on tomorrow? Because we can't. And this is the challenge of remediating and trying to build for the future. But that that is the the direction that we are going in. We talk in our statements about repair to remarkable. We are approaching the end of the repair phase and into the beginning of the getting to remarkable phase.

27:43 Thanks, Gary. I also had a couple of questions on secondhand car market and and your view of where it is right now, the opportunities that exist for PCF in that market still, and your relationships with brokers in the market. If I do the yeah. Do you have any sense? Okay. So in terms of relationships with brokers, one of the things the business has has has achieved, and, yeah, I thank our broker partners for this because some of them may be on this call, We've maintained very good relationships with our brokers. We have rationalized our panel of brokers. We've made some significant reductions in the brokers that we're dealing with. The reason we're doing that is because, again, from a regulated perspective, we have to carry out oversight of the brokers who introduce business to us. And, clearly, the more of them you have, the more people you need doing that and the commercials and economics of that have to work. People have to give you enough business to make that worthwhile.

28:48 So we have rationalized our panel of brokers to establish a smaller but more strategic group of brokers that we do business with. So I think in terms of how we're working with our brokers, you know, I thank them for their support, and, hopefully, we're giving them a better, more personalized service. Secondhand car market is interesting. If we hadn't been in the position we were in, I think we would have had a dilemma about whether we wanted to lend at record levels as some businesses have had into an asset class, which may well have been going through a bubble period. And, yeah, luckily, we saw that decision was made for us.

29:35 I've heard the view that people around the stable will know for a long time, which is I think that secondhand car values it's it's illogical for secondhand car values to be going up, and and that's that's just the supply side driven inflation. Once that supply side driven inflation drops, either because more cars are being produced or people have got less money to buy cars, then there must be a normalization of the price of that asset class. So I I don't pretend to be a professor of economics in the secondhand car market, but simple economics say to me that there needs to be a supply side or side adjustment and that those prices will normalize. And I suspect the underlying collateral values of secondhand cars when mark to market in next reporting rounds would have dropped.

30:29 Thanks, Thanks, Harry. Starting more technical question here. I'm not sure if you got the answer to hand. Is the interest coupon being paid on the £7,000,000 tier two debt at the moment? Yes. It is. And the numbers look very similar, which is probably, you know, period on period, which is probably where the question comes from. It's fixed interest rate. We've had 7,000,000 of the facility drawn now for for a good start eighteen months or so, and hence, gets paid on a regular basis and accrues on a regular basis. So it does look like the number hasn't changed, but, yes, it is regularly being paid in line with the terms of the facility. Thank you, Caroline.

31:18 We've had a question here, which I'm looking about the Castle Trust interest and whether there's any more you can say or not now. No. It's a simple answer to that. People will be aware that, yeah, we're we're a listed business. We've made our announcements, and that is our position, and we we can't even if we wanted to go into more detail. At this stage. At this at this stage. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Thank you. So there's still questions coming in. Couple of questions on on the need to raise capital, and is it to support growth, or is it just or does the current state of the balance sheet require capital raising?

32:07 So we meet it you know, we meet it all our regulatory requirements, and and in in reality, it's it's a little bit of both. Right? We are loss making currently, and that erodes capital. Capital. We want to grow, and we've said before quite openly that, you know, we need to build scale to return to profitability. And to build scale, we need to raise capital. So so it's both, you know, to to to maintain the the capital ratios and all those breakthrough limits and also to build for GROUP. Thank you. Going back touching on previous events. There's a question about share quest quite a few questions about shareholder valuation.

32:54 Share share share valuation value in the business. Mainly to do with does the does the board feel the pain of the the current share shareholders in terms of price of shares and and where shareholder value is right now, I guess. Okay. Well, the the board situation there is all shareholders feel the pain equally. So those members of the board who are shareholders obviously feel the pain. I am a shareholder. I bought at market price before these issues occurred. Nobody is making good the losses on my shares, so I feel the pain as well.

33:42 In addition, no members of the board currently have options in the business. So it's not a I saw a comment recently around all the summer shares sorry. Are the new shares going to be used for options at very low cost for for the the management management team, not to the very best of my knowledge. No. I think that people can be reassured that any shareholder, whether they are a employee of the business, director of the business, or unattached to the business are sharing the pain equally, depending, of course, on what price they bought their shares at. You. And and shareholder value at the moment. Share you know, what's our view? I don't without being specific, I don't have a view on shareholder value.

34:34 The market puts the view on shareholder value. Thanks. Question on subscript on the open offer coming up, whether that's going to be at five p. Will the price be adjusted? And will the next tranche of this of summer's cash book placement, will that be done at five p as well? I'm not sure how much information we can give on that. I think the the the this is Duncan with our general counsel. Duncan, I think we've already announced the market for that. Yes. Yeah. And the and the answer is that it will be at 5PM. Thank you. We've we've this is probably more of a clarification point on we've referred to upgrading systems and the access you spoke about this a bit earlier, Gary. What what what would you say the problems were with the systems previously, and what and what other systems I I know you touched on this a bit with some of it already. What are the ones you're looking to put in place going forward or have put in place? Well and I'm sure there was upgrading of the systems, and I know they were because I've seen the upgrades that were made. I think there's a very different if you if you look at the the historical PCF way of originating business and underwriting, it it it was by modern day standards quite manually intensive.

35:56 And the days of having underwriters looking at bank statements and dealing with paper or emails, scans, really have gone for most mainstream volume businesses. And so the the issue with the systems is that the systems were fit for the purpose for what for what they were intended. But that business that way of doing business has become is anachronistic, has become outdated. So I think that on the origination side, we we need need to to modernize our infrastructure to enable us to run our business in a modern way. Of course, we have back office systems as well around the way that we run our loan book, the way that we drive our regulatory reporting, the way that we drive our provisioning, the way that we run our general ledger.

36:54 So, like, you know, self explanatory, and I'll let Caroline talk a little bit about that because that's more your world than mine. Yeah. And I think I think a very similar theme, you know, the the fit for purpose at a given point. But as, you know, as technology moves forward and as, you know, business grows and more things go through the pipes, that kind of manual nature, at some point, you need needs needs to be automated. And and so it really is just, you know, about joining things up. And and and and if we can automate more, then, obviously, you not only need less people to do things, you you know, there's less checking and less reconciliation as well. So you end up with this kind of double benefit around the cost that's required to support the core operations of the business.

37:55 Thanks, Caroline. I think it should be the last question, actually, around post positives going forward for the bank and signs of optimism for the future. I guess, you can point to the the month of March of the £22,000,000. That's not the bank's on record, but there are the bank is still functioning properly. So your views on sort of the future Yeah. You see it. I've I've I've said all along that the bank's core competency remains intact, it does. Yep. We have a franchise which is known in the market and provides a great service to our partners and our consumers. The the reality is the business grew quickly, and the infrastructure of the business did not keep pace with that growth.

38:50 And so we are now having to address those issues. So I think that, ultimately, we are a bank that has a functioning capability in its core products of taking deposits, issuing loans, servicing loans. This is about the the the foundations for the business scale, and scale is absolutely crucial. There reaches a point where you have to say, if I'm going to grow my balance sheet a billion pounds plus 1,500,000,000, whatever the number may be, I need to make sure the foundations are firm. And if you can't grow your balance sheet, then you effectively get caught in type of death spiral, frankly.

39:39 So I think that I'm very reassured that we remain operational on a day to day basis. Thank you. And I think that no other questions. Thank you, everyone, for joining. Any should pass it back to James? Tim. Thanks. Great. Gary and Caroline as well. Thank you very much indeed for taking the time to address all of those questions that came in from investors this morning. And, And of of course, course, ladies and gentlemen, the company will review all of the questions submitted today, and we'll publish those responses where it's appropriate to do so on the Investor Meet company platform, and you'll be notified by email when they're ready for your review. Gary, perhaps for redirecting those on the call provide you with their feedback, which I know is particularly important to yourself and the company. If I could please just ask you for a few closing comments to wrap up with, that'd be great.

40:26 Yeah. Thank you very much, Jake. Yeah. I'll just repeat what I said at the start. I understand shareholder frustration, and I understand that people feel aggrieved that the situation that we're in. I can just say to you, we could we as a management team and all the colleagues in the business are working incredibly hard to get the business back on a firm footing as quickly and as cost efficiently as possible. I don't say that weaselly words. We are. And I think that the fact that we've got our financial reporting up to date within the six month period is testament to that. So I thank shareholders for their patience.

41:13 Hopefully, there are brighter days ahead to us, and we remain absolutely committed to being as open and transparent with you as we can. And I appreciate that for some of you, that won't be open and transparent enough, but we will do the best we can. So thank you. Gary, that's great. And Caroline as well, thank you very much indeed for taking the time to update investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in in all of the management team can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of management team of PCF GROUP PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. So good morning to you all.