Ingenta (LSE:ING) — Interim results for the six months ended 30 June 2021

0:01 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the INGENTA PLC investor presentation for the interim results for the six months ended 06/30/2021. Throughout this presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted any time via the Q and A account situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply click Q and A, scroll to the bottom, type your question and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. These will be available via our investor meeting company dashboard, and you'll be notified

0:32 once they're ready for your review. I'd also like to remind you that this presentation is being recorded. Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to Scott Winner, CEO, and John Sheffield, CFO of INGENTA PLC. Good afternoon to you both to you both. Hi. Good afternoon. So thank you all for taking time to watch our presentation here, and, hopefully, you'll have some interesting questions for us. So we'd thought we'd start with an introduction, and I'm Scott Winter. I'm the CEO and have been since 2018. I've been with the company a little bit longer than that, but I have been the CEO since 2018. I will say that what I really am focused on and have been for the last fifteen years of my career is I've always been in roles that were both technology leadership and business leadership.

1:22 And then in in

1:23 the publishing space, and in INGENTA, I get to do both of those. So I get to marry up the business side of my publishing knowledge with the techniques technical side, and I bring that to INGENTA. John, would you like to introduce yourself? Hello, everyone. My name is John Sheffield. I'm the CFO at INGENTA. I've been in place since 2017. I've got a background in audit and assurance, lastly at PLC, and retail experience and software experience in in the industry.

1:53 Okay. So let's introduce and I'm gonna turn my camera off to save on bandwidth at this point, and we'll turn it back on for q and a. But let me introduce a bit about INGENTA here. So what what is INGENTA? INGENTA is really a mission critical software provider to the publishing sector. What we do for a living is provide, software and services that allow publishers to take their works and get them to market. So in this case, we were saying publishing in the primarily book spaces where we've done most of our work, but are actually expanding now into other areas. But we really are the linchpin in a lot of what they do to take their published works from the beginning through the end, through the orders and through the very end of selling product, and we're involved in that life cycle.

2:43 So we've we've been around for about forty years, and we've had some of our customers have been with us about thirty years, but we tend to have long duration customers. And our our top 15 customers, as you can see, have been with us for about fourteen years. And we continue to build and expand on those relationships because of what we do and who we are and also because of the solutions we provide that they're they're complex and good solutions, and we're continuing to do that. Under my leadership, we've really taken a shift to a heavy focus on recurring revenues and now have about 85% of our revenues are recurring. We've shifted our models to software as a service, platform as a service type models, and really have shifted to an organization that that has a relatively steady income stream based off the recurring revenues. And then, yes, some spikes in additional revenues at times.

3:30 And I'll say we've also been able to build a strong balance sheet where we currently have about 3,100,000 in cash, as an organization, which for an organization of our sizes is pretty good, we continue to be cash generative, and some of that cash goes back out in dividends. We have an aggressive policy, and we are now targeting a 20% EBITDA margin on what we bring in. And we will get John will get into some more of the numbers later on that. So, really, that's who we are as an organization. That's what we've done, and that's our stable base. And what we're looking to do is really to grow and expand that base heavily. So we have some very good solutions in some aspects of the market, particularly as it relates to intellectual property management.

4:15 And with our solutions in that market, we've been talking to people in quite a number of industries that could use our solutions. Many of those conversations are very far along. And there's really some faster growth verticals than publishing that have come to us asking for solutions, and we're looking at the best way to provide them. And those some examples of those are fashion rental, music, and gaming where they all need this aspect of intellectual property management, rights management, contract management, royalties management. And because our software is so good and so complicated due to the number the amount of time it's been developed, it actually provides solutions in this space. And it's always been built to be content agnostic, meaning we don't really care what you're trying to manage intellectual property. We can do it. And so that's what we're doing is taking that software and now expanding out into a larger universe.

5:04 John, do you wanna talk through the numbers a bit? Yeah. Sure. Thanks, Scott. Thanks, Scott. Right. So we use this this slide here really to illustrate progress and direction we've made over the last eighteen months or so. And I think one of the the first things to talk of is our is our refocus and stabilization that we've we've embarked upon. So we've identified our commercial and content products as our our key drivers for growth, really. We got some other bits that we'll come on to later, which are all highly profitable and complementary to our overall offering, but they're not seen as the core for us moving forward. The other things we've been we've been doing is, you know, defining our functionality of our products and the implementation plan, importantly, just to make sure things go through seamlessly quickly and get to the all important recurring revenues.

5:49 And we've also tried to offer a a nice clear upgrade path in each of our products. So, you know, we we can cater for all all spectrums all all ends of the spectrum in terms of the customer base. An example of that would be in our content business where we have a a multi tenancy platform at the base level. And as you grow and get bigger, you may want your own website, and we can we can bespoke that for you to to varying degrees.

6:13 So next down is the is the recurring revenue, and that's been another focus for us to to really grow this. And we're currently at about 85%. We feel that's probably about right for our business now because we do encourage some control change request work once they're live. It's it's part of the progress of a of a platform. Another strategy is to avoid perpetual licenses. So in the past, certainly in our commercial arm, that was that was a traditional way to sell licenses. So now we're trying to do software as a service, platform as a service, just really to to drive those recurring revenues. We we try to target a standard product now. So you go live on the standard product, you get the recurring revenues clicking in straight away, and then the change request and the man time come come on top afterwards.

7:02 And we've also been expanding our services. So we're offering, you know, lots of services hosting, also man time recurring services. So we would do back end routines for you. And all this all this work makes our product very sticky, which is good for the for the future and and forecasting. And finally, the is the efficiency drive is is an important factor of our the last eighteen months. And you can see that in the in the EBITDA and the cash flow uptick over over the first two two half years. And the way we've driven that is by simplifying our organization structure. We've removed silos that we had in the business, so each product had its own duplicated tier of management. So we we've stripped that out. We've also expanded our offshore capability, so that includes support and man time services now so we can flex that up and down efficiently.

7:54 We've also streamlined our infrastructure. So we've now got data centers. We've reduced our physical footprint because we've found that that in the last eighteen months in COVID, that is the way to go, and it's it's a lot more efficient, and we can ramp up and down as needed. And, ultimately, that's driven to the what Scott Scott mentioned earlier, the the dividend progression that we're looking to do. So all these things now have have meant we're gonna be increasing our dividend. And from recent research notes, this is gonna be roughly at four and a half percent yield. Okay. So I talked a little bit about what we do as an organization. Let me break down what it means when I say we we provide mission critical solutions.

8:43 So what you see there in the middle of this chart is the types of things that people do with us. There's there's more and it gets more complicated. But to break it down at the higher level, essentially, we're involved with a a lot of our customer customers when we talk about commercial. We're involved in how they manage orders and process their payments. So, literally, the customers that we work with don't sell product except through our system. And so we become the central hub for that. So they're a 100% dependent on what we do to get their revenues in the door, and we integrate as a result, we end up integrating with many, many systems at every customer that we deploy to. And that way, we become integral to their their technological ecosystem, if you will. So they need not only our product, but actually our services that go along with that in an ongoing integration troubleshooting mode. And so that's why we're able to provide solutions there and services there, but also to continue to have, good ongoing dynamic working relationships and high recurring revenues through that through that hub of managing orders and payment systems.

9:51 In middle bubble called product distribution. So we are also involved in product distribution, and this is done through multitude of ways. So our commercial systems integrate with various ways people are distributing product, whether they be digital, Amazon, warehousing. We get involved in the paper aspects all the way through the digital aspects up through ebooks, audiobooks, any type of product you might imagine. We manage through our system from end to end and really get it out there into the actual distribution of product. And we also host digital product and share that digital product. Particularly, we do a lot more of that in the scholarly and educational space and the NGO space. But from what we do, we actually allow we have various websites out there. And if you wanna take a look, we can give more information on that in the future about some of the examples of the the companies that use our our platform to get their products to market through the product distribution.

10:46 And then the right two sections of it are the sublicensing media assets and royalty payments. Essentially, what our software does is it allows you to manage the process end to end from contracts when they contract with artists, whether that be a JK Rowling or whoever whoever's whoever they're contracting the intellectual property from from that contract through to paying royalties and actually through the end of the contract and the expiration of the contract, we we manage that process for them. It is it can become a very complex process, and we do it for, like I said, books, and we've done it for books for a long time. But we also do it for audiobooks and various little bits of podcasts and various aspects of different things, and this is just with our publisher base. So what we see here is, you know, these markets merging a bit, and what we have is a a way to manage and effectively pay royalties on that. Now I will say the reason we talk about sublicensing media assets a lot is because when people buy rights, they normally buy slightly more rights than they need or they will use, and they have the option, and our software helps manage that this for them so that they can sell those rights to somebody else or sublicense those rights out. So as an example, if I'm a UK based company and I have the worldwide rights to a book or a song or a film, then what I can do is actually but I have no plans to distribute or manage those rights in, say, Asia.

12:17 I can sublicense those rights to somebody else and have them manage that whole distribution and that piece of it in Asia. And then I actually get paid back a royalty myself. So it's it's a way to actually generate more income for rights that you're not using, that you actually own as an organization, really maximize the value of their assets. And so that's part of what we do there. But the other thing is we also protect you from doing the opposite, selling the rights to somebody that you don't own because it's very data driven, so you won't actually do that or selling them too many times. So if you sold exclusive rights in Asia to somebody else, you certainly don't wanna do that again, and it protects you from making mistakes, which are easy to make if you're trying to manage it through spreadsheets and that kind of thing, and it helps really protect the company against lawsuits of that nature. But, essentially, where we are is we don't unfortunately, we aren't the ones who publish the great works in the world, but we're the ones who enable it. So we live in that hub of allowing publishers to put those great works into the world, whether they be a book or a song or a movie or a game. And we sit in that hub there where we allow them to do what they do. And, frankly, most of the publishers, that's mostly what they're concerned with is putting great works in the world. And so what we do is we enable that, and we try to take as much burden through services off the customers in managing how they do that. And we continue to expand that offering as well.

13:36 So let me go to the next slide here. And let me talk a little bit about why would companies work with us. And we work with some very large names out in the in the world. Sage is a good example. Sage Publishing, and there's a case study on this later in the deck for you to review what we do with them. But why do they work with us, and why have they worked with us for thirty years? Because we're experts in this industry. We've been in this industry for a long time. We are an organization dedicated to marriaging marrying the technology with what the business needs here and really providing solutions to their real problems. I mean, it's easy for companies to get in the mode of, we'll buy a generic solution and then figure out how we make that solution work for us. And it's usually quite convoluted. Anyone who's worked in a large company will tell you it's convoluted. There's other processes that they run.

14:27 There's all sorts of resource impact. But we provide solutions that actually meet their needs to the best extent possible and continue to work with our customers and partner with them to continue to evolve that so that we're constantly in this mode of improving our products to meet specifically what they need, not generically what they need. And I I think in our case, where this shows up a lot is really allowing them to address their unique business needs and their unique business models because the world is evolving very quickly as it relates to publishing. And as part of that, we need to evolve, and we evolve with our partners with it. And we've had an approach for the last couple decades, really, of having highly configurable software because we knew of the multitude of needs. This enabled us to not only serve the paper world of thirty years ago, but the audiobooks of today.

15:17 And we can serve those as well. And how those get sold, whether it be a subscription or an individual product or license through some digital media for a specific time period or whatever the case may be. And the same is true across our IP products that they are actually quite unique now. They get more complicated every day. An audiobook's a good example. You have not only the author, but the person performing the music and the actors and anyone who's actually produced it. And there's

15:42 all sorts of people who could be involved in getting payment for that IP, And and it gets more complicated all the time, and we can manage it. We manage it today. It's like it relates to books, and we can manage it in future for for other industries as well. So I've talked a bit about publishing. I've talked about other industries. Let me talk about the publishing market. So we service the publishing market. I've always been a huge fan of books, avid reader my whole life. And I'll tell you the publishing market's been a great market for hundreds of years. It's been an ongoing growing

16:13 market for hundreds of years. Yes. It took some dips during depressions and that kind of things. Realistically, it's it's started and continued to expand and has been around as long as any of us can remember and continues to grow. It's continuing to be a growth market, and it's actually growing and evolving and merging with other markets. And you can see ebooks have grown more significantly recently than than in the past. And but ebooks are a part of the market. They end up being somewhere between 3040% depending on exactly what you're measuring, but they haven't taken over the market. And paper is still an integral part of the market and continues to grow, and we can service it all. Everything from paper, like I said, up to ebooks, audiobooks, and whatnot. Yes. Newspapers have been in decline for a few years, and so there are aspects of publishing that have been declining, but, podcasts have been growing. And then there's whole other, aspects of of growth that continue to grow.

17:08 And so what we're looking is is looking at this sector, but focusing on other growth sectors. So the other growth sectors being, near adjacent sectors, like music, gaming, film, and we've been working with quite a few people, getting that going. And then, you know, there's really, like I said, this convergence. And it's it's always sort of been the case, but it's actually becoming more the case in reality and in business terms than it has in the past. When a book becomes a film, becomes a

17:36 has songs associated with it, becomes a video game, All of these things have to come together, and they are coming together over time. And they I mean, there were books that are published now that have animation in them, music, actors. It's not much different from a movie. And these things have, like I said, been merging together for quite some time. An audiobook is very much like a a music, whether it be said or played. It doesn't really matter because they have the same basic needs around it. And so we have specific needs to address those markets as well, and that's where we're looking to expand. And as we have to address it for our core market, we're expanding into these other markets, and it actually bolsters both of those in a positive way.

18:21 The other thing great about the publishing market and other markets in our space is this whole consolidation. So in these markets, there's this constant recycle of independent publishers coming along, growing, getting more and more needs, and then being subsumed into larger organizations. And that cycle is actually very healthy for the market, but it's also very healthy for someone who provides solutions to that market because there's not only the current market base of customers, but it's an ongoing growing base. And then if you the more you play in the small to medium space, they they will later be subsumed into large organizations. And you get to play in large organizations just by sitting there, basically. But, yes, we we aggressively target large organizations, but the whole market evolves rapidly, and it it's true in all the markets I've just mentioned.

19:08 The other thing that that was interesting for us around COVID, and I get asked all the time how COVID has affected us. First of all, we were able to go remote very quickly and very well. So as a as an organization, we're well positioned from that perspective, so it didn't really impact our workforce other than the unfortunate impacts of the illness itself. And then, a a lot of growth has been stimulated in publishing and in reading and in gaming and in film and in music. Just as a result of COVID, people have spent more time at home, have read a lot more. There's actually been a resurgence and probably a new generation of readers as a result, people who are reading books. So it's a healthy market. Like I said, in COVID, it's actually stimulated it even, and I suspect the numbers will be much higher, next year than they are right now.

19:54 So I've I've shown you talked a bit about this, and and the size of market is always difficult to measure in the size of addressable market, but the best we can do from the information we have. As you can see, publishing is is growing. It's still growing. But there are a lot of other markets that are growing as well. And it's again, I've been talking about it throughout, so I don't I won't go into a lot of detail on the side. But our royalty engine can service those markets because it does today in some way, shape, or form, another. A lot of our publishers actually have bits of music and games anyway, so they've been going through our system for a while. It's really just doing it better and on a a scale that's actually targeted to these markets with their standards and their integrations. And so we are definitely looking at keeping what we have, making it as best as we can be, continuing to grow that with the best margins we can return, and then also playing in additional markets. It basically would take our size of addressable market and expand it by hundreds of percent. So probably about four or 500% is the total addressable market from what it is or what it has been in the past.

20:52 John, do you wanna talk through these? Yeah. Sure. Sure. So we've been busy. So this this is really just talking into some of our progress we've made again. So so focusing on our core product our core product. Content and conversion.

21:11 I'll get some feedback here. We've defined our functionality and established a a clear upgrade path for our products. We've con got controlled software release process now. We found this is good, but it's because it's opened up avenues to upgrade and change cross change request work. And one of the key bits is the increased operational efficiency. So removing silos, having product agnostic functional teams that work across all products, increasing offshore capacity. We've we've introduced more resilient infrastructure by taking kit off premise into data centers, and we're also looking in future months to reduce our physical footprint and the and the costs associated with that. And then one of the the future looking things that we've done is to is to put more rigor around our account management team.

22:01 So really really giving them targets to cross sell and upsell and and looking the future now and and boosting growth.

22:13 So this next slide is focused on really the the future outlook and what we're trying to do next. So the key one is a a drive towards a a 20% EBITDA margin. And initially, we're we're making progress on efficiency drives at the moment, but the next step is gonna be growth, which will be getting us up to that that 20% target, and we'll we'll talk to that a bit later. So where have we had success today? I think the the key areas within the content business, we've had a lot of success with NGOs and trade associations, and we're looking to to really leverage that, you know, use use the name recognition and and try to drive more sales through in content. In the commercial sector, we've we've had a lot of mid tier activity with publishers, so getting some mid tier customers through, and that's been good. And we're also making progress in expanding our pipeline in the new verticals that Scott's been talking about.

23:07 So where do we see the the growth coming from? I think publishing itself, as Scott's mentioned, is is a huge market, and and we're a small fraction of that. So there is still plenty of growth to be to be driven from from the publishing market. And we'll show in this in some of the breakouts later on. We're underrepresented in The US geography, so there's plenty of growth in there, and we've ramped up our sales teams to try and really tap into that to that key market. And then also, there's the new verticals. So something new to us, not currently exploited with the numbers, is the music, gaming, fashion, all those kind of industries that have similar similar pain points to to the those that we've experienced in in publishing. And the nice thing is that we use the same software engine for these other markets.

23:52 It's just a case of changing the the interface, what you see the the terminology. So it's quite a quite a relatively seamless progression into those into those markets.

24:03 So so how do we get there? Really, it's a it's a refocus on our sales and marketing efforts. So in the past, we did a lot of in person trade events. We're now ramping up our digital processes to really tap into the into the verticals, get the get the pipeline moving in those areas. We're also putting more people into into our US US workforce to to get into the into the bigger markets out there. And, also, efficient demos, that's another key area is to to be able to show your product seamlessly quickly to customers so they get it, they understand it, and you can really get into into contract discussions a lot quicker. So now some going on to some of the financials from the from the first first half of of twenty twenty one.

24:51 So the first slide here is is our is our revenue breakout, and you can see here the the good strong basis that we've got in recurring revenues at 85%. And that's, you know, that's been ticking up, but as I said before, it's probably about where where it's gonna stay going forward. You can then see the breakout in the in the revenues where they come from, and, you know, The UK is bigger than The US at the moment, and that's that's something that we we need to address and just get some more revenue from from The US markets. And the and the last bar chart to the right the right shows where I was talking about our refocus. You can see here that the commercial and the content parts of the business are are by far the biggest bits, and they are the best best suited to growth going forward. We've also got publishing services and INGENTA advertising.

25:38 They're both profitable and they're both complementary to what we do, but we don't see them as as being the the real the drivers for growth going forward. And then our income statement, and you can see that we we've stabilized revenue at the top on the top line. You can see the in the cost of sales line, you can see that we're driving down the cost there, so making progress in the efficiency of delivery. And then sales and marketing, that's that's ticked up a little bit, and that's as I was talking about before, it's really our our push to get into into new verticals, new markets, and and drive the the revenue line going forward. And another thing to mention is 100% of our research and development all gets charged through into the p and l. There's nothing in the balance sheet. It's very clean.

26:31 Next up is the balance sheet. So 3,100,000 of cash in the bank at the half year. So that's that's good solid position. We have no debt. We have substantial £20,000,000 tax losses brought forward, so we'll be able to insulate from, you know, tax charges going forward in the future. And we've also got a a healthy 6,600,000 distributable p and l reserve in the in the PLC parent company, which is which is basically a part of the factor why we've ramped up our dividend policy going forward. And finally, our the cash flow statement for the for the first half. So here, really, the the key is it's the clean progression of profit through to cash. And another nice thing about our software is, as Scott mentioned before, we are mission critical.

27:17 Customers will pay us. It's it comes through. It's it's it's quite clean. And all this all this is really supporting our our policy of the expanded dividend, you know, the the building up the the cash $3.13100000 pounds. Alright. I think that concludes. There's some case studies at the back if people want to to go through them, but we weren't proposing to go through in in detail at at this stage. That's fantastic, Scott. John, thank you very much indeed for updating and for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, do please continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. But just while the company take a few moments to review those investor questions submitted already, I'd like to remind you the recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published q and a can be accessed via investor dashboard on the Investor Meet company platform.

28:11 Also, I'd to remind you that your feedback is important to the company, and immediately after the presentation has concluded, you'll redirected for the opportunity to provide that feedback. Scott John, we did receive a number of presubmitted questions from investors, and perhaps if I could start the q and a session with those, if I may. The first one reads as follows. You've done a good job in rationalizing operations and talk about further gains. How much more efficient can you become over time and what time frame? Yeah. John, do you wanna start with this one? Hello? John, hi. Sorry. Just on mute there, John. If you're gonna pop yourself off. That makes sense. Sorry. Yeah. Missed the problem. Thank you very much. So, yeah, I was saying so based on the the the current same cost forecast right there at the moment, we're we're predicting an adjusted EBITDA target of 1,300,000 in the in the current year. So that's about a 10% growth on on the prior year. And then going out into 2022, there'll be a 20% growth up to roughly 1,600,000.

29:18 Fantastic. Thank you, John. The next one we've got here is revenue to peers with trough. When do you expect them to return to growth? Can you comment on your pipeline of opportunities? So I can take the the revenue part. I don't know if you want to comment on the the pipeline later, Scott. But same cost forecast is showing some small growth in 2022, so it'll be ticking up to £10,100,000. Right. And as it relates to pipeline, we always have a healthy pipeline that supports the the models that are out there. The pipeline's actually quite large in terms of today, and it cuts across a multitude of industries, and it keeps growing. It grows on a week by week basis as we pursue opportunities because, as I said, we're increasing our total addressable market by the very nature of that.

30:06 As we send out marketing campaigns, we get hundreds of responses. And so we continue to grow the pipeline, on a regular basis. Thank you very much. The next one we've got here is SENCOS published forecast for next year. So can you share them with us? Yep. So I I can take that. Yes. That's correct. Yes. SENCOS have produced forecast for us. Unfortunately, we can't redistribute them, but I can give some of the the key metrics from it here. So so revenue 2021, about 10,000,000, and in the following year, it will be up to 10.1. The adjusted EBITDA forecasted for this year of 1 300,000, increasing to 1.6 in the following year. And importantly, they're predicting a dividend yield of current share price about 4.5% yield.

30:54 That's fantastic. Thank you very much indeed. And the final one we've got here is, does your new dividend policy leave enough capital investing growth markets? And I'll take that one, John. Yes. It does. I mean, we spend a lot of time on budgeting as as most companies do, and we are very targeted with our investments happen in there. Actually, our investment portfolio is largely dedicated to the integrations and things necessary in the growth markets. But because our com our solution in the current markets is so complete, it it takes slightly less investment to continue what you're doing and doing well. And because we're leveraging the same core engine, even the growth markets requiring modest investments to continue to target additional markets over time.

31:39 So yes. And also as it relates to sales and marketing efforts, yes, we target. We have enough money to do that plus with the way sales programs work. Of course, they're incentivized for bringing things on, and that way they kind of fund themselves, you know, to a large degree. That's fantastic. That covers off the pre submitted questions. If I may just ask you just to click onto the q and a tab. And just where appropriate to do so, if I may just ask you just to read out the question and give you a verbal response, that'd be fantastic. Thank you. Sure. So the first question we had in was regarding the recurring revenue income. What is the typical length of contract, and what percent of the contracts get renewed on expiry? The typical length of contract apparently, average length is three years. We sign normally, a minimum contract is one year, and we've actually had to set a maximum because we've been asked to do longer, but our maximum contract is five years. And so the average length is about three years. Most customers go on three year cycles because, like, as I said, what we do is very integral to what they do as a business to replace what we do is a large exercise for them, and they need significant amount of time to figure out if they were gonna go with somebody else. They would need to a significant project to do it. In fact, our our even when we renew on an annual basis, we require a twelve month notice of nonrenewal so they don't get to the end and and nonrenew. That's how we know our recurring revenues and what they are and how sticky they are going forward.

33:11 The percentage of the contracts that ex get renewed on expiry, I'd say I I haven't done the numbers, but it's easily easily in the 90% range. We serve several 100 publishers on a regular basis. So, yes, naturally, there's some attrition. Some customers disappear altogether, but it's probably in the 90%. I don't know, John, if you have a better view of that. Yeah. No. It's very strong. I think earlier on in the presentation, we showed that the average length of customer duration was fourteen years, and, you know, we've got people who've been here for thirty plus years, which talks to Scott's point about being very, very sticky and and difficult to get off the products. Okay. The next one is the share price seems to be undervalued based on a multiple of recurring revenues basis of aggressive dividend should help in this respect, but will you also consider further share buybacks, which should further address the valuation anomaly?

34:04 We have considered share buybacks in it. I mean, we we've also been asked to actually introduce new stock, so people wanted to buy significantly more than what was available on the market. So it's always a a sort of push pull here to determine the right approach. Yeah. We we agree, by the way. We seem to be undervalued in terms of what we do and and would love to see that value go up. And part of what we're talking here is we'd like to expand our investor base rather than just buy back shares. So it's always a matter of when you do share buybacks. And we we have some approval to further buy back some shares right now, but we we don't want the to shut down the market by buying back all the shares. I don't know. John, do you wanna add to that one? Yeah. I think it's probably important to note we've we've got some thresholds that we need to be careful of. So I think there will be limited share buybacks in the future.

34:58 The next one is, will INGENTA get involved with credits too? Currently, it's being championed by Bjorn Lovas, and I can never say his name at Boba Fame, to ensure that royalties within the music industry is correctly assigned. There's actually quite a few initiatives that have been going on in this space, not just in music, but across the board as to how royalties get correctly assigned. Largely, what we do is we help with that from the get go. So because of the way our software works so I'd say to to a large degree, we're actually already involved in that process in an integral way. And customers who are trying to do it manually, it's it's not through ill will that they sometimes don't get assigned correctly. It's through a processing issue. And most customers are looking for a solution to that, and that's where we come in where if you set up the contract correctly and the data driven have data driven contracts that then drive through the end process, royalties are assigned correctly by the nature of the rules and the data that put into the contract.

35:52 I will say there's also been several initiatives involved, not only in music, but in other industries where, artists push for increased visibility into data and have pushed for that for a while, but I'll say there's we've actually talked to some possible partnership opportunities in that, and there are some standards being evolved. And as those get evolved, we would be, of course, more involved in that. I'll say the data is very hard to consume these days in all aspects, even in the book world. So people are used to getting data in number of units sold. It doesn't happen that way anymore. Now their book is part of some subscription model, and it's the number of minutes that people looked at that book that somehow contribute to the overall numbers they could apply to publishers, and then that number gets broken down to the artists within the book, within the publisher. So it's a very complex ecosystem. That's why people need a system like ours in place to do it. And it is, like I said, quite complicated in how royalties get correctly assigned.

36:48 So I'd say, partially, we're already involved. We're not involved directly. If anyone wants to give Bjorn my name and have him call me, I'd be happy to to get involved more directly. The next one is who are INGENTA's main competitors? Is it other SMEs operating the IP management software space or is it internal departments within the big publishers? It's actually a very astute question. It's it's sort of both. There are a lot of little players in various aspects of what we do, and those little players tend to have incomplete solutions. That's where when people see our solution, they see it as far more complete. And it's just basically because we've been building it for forty years. Right? So we have a very complex end to end solution that addresses not only the complexities around royalties, but the complexities around product because product itself is a very complex definition and the the complexities around how a company is structured. So to some degree, even people we could say are competitors to part of what we do, they're actually we end up in a coaptition mode where we integrate with their software because what we do is specific to the industry. So we end up integrating, like, Oracle, SAP, any any ERP out there. We've integrated with any financial module that's out there. We probably integrated with it to really make our software part of the core. And what we're trying to do is make the pieces that don't fit so well in these other models work very well and actually feed the other other software appropriately.

38:13 Because we do struggle at times to identify who our specific competitors are. Plus, we cover a broad range of things that is is unique in the industry, and and others don't have the same portfolio. So it's it's we also have that aspect going on. The next one, which the adjacent target markets offer the most immediate growth opportunities and how big is the opportunities? What does success look like. The adjacent target markets that are are the most adjacent ones that offer immediate opportunities are really music, gaming, and film, and that's just because they operate the most similarly to what we do. Although I mentioned in the slide fashion, we had a fashion rental company come to us and saying, you help us? We're struggling to figure out how to pay royalties effectively, and we have all this data and how we manage it and consume it. And so we did a proof of concept for them that, yes, we could do it. And we'd model it in a way that fit within their model and actually fit their business model. And because of the configurability of it, we configured the rules appropriately, and it flowed through nicely and actually calculated correctly and pointed out some things that weren't calculated so correctly the old way.

39:18 So I would say the most the adjacent target markets are, like I said, music, film, and gaming. And I think what does success look like? Really so in 2021, we're trying to get the beachhead going in these in these markets where we are establishing ourselves as a key player. We have a lot of marketing efforts going on right now around it, and we would expect growth in 2022 and beyond and where you're starting to see us really become a key player in it. Success we're really measuring success now in because there's the revenue models shift a bit to be more revenue share models or royalty share models, those types of things. So we measure it more in terms of number of of customers because we don't control the the amount each customer grows. So, I mean, if we can get a significant number of customers in 2022, like, even in the tens to 20 space, we'll start to see growth on the bot on the both the top and the bottom line.

40:17 The next one, the revenue growth predicted for 2021 and 2022 seems modest. Are you hopeful for upgrades? Yeah. We actually have taken an approach where we we provide more conservative models to the market. We wanna be we want the numbers to be right is essentially what we we're trying to do. And, yes, there are opportunities on there, but we don't want them to be a hope or wish or a dream. We want them to be real based off of our history, and and John's been one of the driving forces of keeping us real all the time. John, did you wanna add to that? Yeah. So so, yeah, we've like Scott mentioned there, we've we've tried not to put aggressive targets in for the new business, but we're working very hard behind the scenes to deliver them. And, yeah, we're hopeful we're hopeful to get upgrades on the on the forecast. So the next one is you have a great recurring revenue model, which seems to be overlooked by the market judging by your market cap. What are the catalyst and milestones you see that will change that? I think, honestly, what the market is looking for from us is growth on top of the great works. A lot of the great work that we've done as an organization since since I've been in charge has been in making it more what we have more profitable.

41:28 And now the market wants to see us take on new things as well. And I think that'll be the shift right there. And if we can add new customers with ongoing recurring revenue through some of the models I talked about, like royalty share models, then you'll see that the market will will have to take notice in from my view to that. And the last question that people submitted was, are you considering acquisitions to scale the business? And so what types of acquisitions are you looking for? Primarily, I mean, we are we consider acquisitions. We have an all all m and a program and strategy around that where we look for primarily, we're looking for additions to us. So, like, complementary additions to us so we don't get into buying an acquisition then figuring out how we now change that whole acquisition to look like how we look at it, although we have looked at some of those opportunities. Primary strategy is around getting bolt on. So any aspect of the value chain for customers that we don't actually do, which there are some, there we would be looking to add those acquisitions to us not only from that perspective, but for upsell opportunities.

42:27 One of the other things I introduced was a robust account management and sales program, which is all about upsells and really tackling the end to end model and having anyone who works with us give them the opportunity, if you will, to get value out of all that we do. Scott, John, thank you. You have covered every single question we've had through from investors. So thank you to the attendees for your fantastic questions and for you guys for answering them all. And of course, if any further questions do come through, the company will be able to review those and we'll post responses where appropriate to do so on the platform. Scott, perhaps if I could just ask you just for a final sort of snapshot as we before we redirect the attendees to give you some feedback. Sure. So I would I would just say this. So we're a company that's been around for forty years. We have a a tried and true track record of of production delivery for our clients. We have developed our software and have been in the technology space for that amount of time as well and have gone through the evolutions and the cycles and working through various phases of technology for very large to very tiny customers.

43:32 We are a highly stable company. We are cash generative. We actually continue to generate cash. We have no debt. And and so from an organizational perspective, we are well positioned for growth. And a lot of what we've been doing is getting us even better positioned for growth. And then on top of that so I actually think we're undervalued just from that perspective alone. But then when you look at the potential and the potential of the company on top of that, to some degree, we're both this trying to a stable company plus this sort of pre IPO on this company in terms of what we can offer to the market and the markets we can grow in. So not only are we good as we are, but we are are good in terms of what we can do in the future. And, you know, so for that's how I look at it when I invest our money both as a company and what I've invested in our company myself. And I think that's what I would leave as a takeaway for investors. Sure. Read through the financials. Read through what's out there. There's a lot of information out there. And, yeah, let us know if you have questions.

44:26 We'd be happy to answer questions in the not only obviously, we answer a lot of questions here, anything in the future. That's absolutely fantastic. Scott, John, thanks indeed for updating investors today. Can I please ask investors not to close the session? It should be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few minutes to complete, but it's greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of INGENTA PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That concludes today's session. Thank you, and good afternoon. Thank you, everyone.