Ingenta (LSE:ING) — Investor Presentation

0:00 Good afternoon, and welcome to the INGENTA PLC Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time via the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to CEO, Scott Winter. Good afternoon, sir.

0:32 Good afternoon. Thank you everyone for joining us to learn a bit more about INGENTA and to hear about our interim results. I have John Sheffield, our CFO joining me. Let me do a brief introduction. So I am Scott Winter. I'm the CEO, and I've been CEO since 2018. I've since I've been CEO, we've gone through a lot of transformation as a company, and those are showing up in our results now. We're gonna focus more on our future during this presentation and how we go forward. My background includes a strong technology background, but

1:04 I've really been involved in all roles of running a company in terms of product, professional services, sales for about the past twenty years. John, do you wanna give a quick intro?

1:14 Sure. Hello, everyone. My name is John Sheffields, and I head up the finance team at INGENTA. I've been CFO since 2017, and my background's in audit and assurance and later commercial roles in IT and software. K. Thanks, John. So let me dive in a bit more about INGENTA. So INGENTA has been around for forty five years. We provided technology solutions to information and content providers. We focus on providing what we call mission critical software to solve the industry specific problems. What we produce is software that becomes intrinsic as a part of their company and is critical to their day to day operations. And as we get into our products and a bit more about what we what we do, you'll see that. And our products are all highly configurable, and so they've been tailored to address each industry and and each solution that our customers need.

2:10 Our products are focused to provide solutions from very simple to very complicated. We handle our product lines have been reworked in the past few years, and we handle everything from very, very tiny customers to very, very large customers as you'll see as we talk through the presentation. We like to provide a continuum across our products to go from the very small to the very large. And the two key product areas we focused on is what we call our content area, which is their digital distribution products, which let people directly distribute their contents to the globe, and our commercial management solutions, which allows customers to manage sort of all aspects of products and orders and those aspects, as well as manage their intellectual property. In addition to our products, we provide a significant set of services.

2:58 So we know that our customers, they really prefer to focus on what they do, their core value proposition, which tends to be producing content. And so we focus on ours, which is developing and delivering core systems. We'd like to take any of the work that a customer might have in using our systems, and we take that on ourselves. We provide a service so that customers can really continue to focus on what they do best. We really address a few markets now. We address book publishing and have for the longest time. We've also addressed digital publishing for about a decade and a half now at least and continue to do so. We are getting involved in some newer verticals, I'll talk more about that. We do some gaming. We have some gaming in what our current publishers do, and then we have some music, that we're doing now, which continues to ramp up.

3:51 What you can tell from all of these is they are all growing markets. All the markets we deal with are growing and continue to grow, some for hundreds of years and some newer. But they're all growing. They all grow rapidly, and it's our goal to be as much a part of those markets as we can. We do target those markets with our key offerings, and so all of our offerings are branded and focused on the markets we're targeting. Now if this seems like a broad reach, it really isn't. So what's happened over the past, probably two decades is there's been a major convergence between these markets. So all of our publishers and we as we'll talk through, we work with some of the largest publishers, they have all already have mixed media in what they do. A good example is audiobooks.

4:36 Audiobooks cut across music, voice acting, sound, streaming services, and they really cut the full across the full gamut as does musicians. Musicians now produce more than they ever have in terms of both materials, and a good example is sheet music. Sheet music is part of what musicians do, and those are cut across the book industry. So all of these industries are slowly coming together. Where you see this the most is in gaming, where you get media, video, music, books, and they're all tied very closely together. So all of these markets are converging because we've done it for forty five years. We're able to speak to all of these markets. And what we have is a very complex and complete solution to answer all of their needs.

5:24 The other thing that's great about the markets that we deal with is they have what I call an evergreen cycle where it's easier than ever for people to enter these markets. And so startups are springing up, all over the place in all of these markets, and those startups start to grow. Now because we provide solutions from the very small to very large, we can handle that. And as they grow, we can handle the very large. And in some cases, we deal with very, very large entities, in some cases, small entities, we really cut across the board. And we prediction for these markets is nothing but growth. Everybody predicts these markets will continue to grow for the foreseeable future. And so it's a great market for us to be in, and as we as I've noted, we've been in it for quite some time. We're a known entity, and we do a good bit of business with some of the key players now.

6:13 So let me shift a bit more about the products. So, again, I've said this a few times, but our product continuum is what we've introduced a while ago. And for each of our products, we go from the very small to the very large. Now we provided simpler versions of our products because in the past, we've had very complicated products that very small customers were overwhelmed with. So we provided very simple multi tenancy solutions to get people going on our products as they're very small, and then they can grow within that. So those small solutions have add on services, add on product, features that you can do until you get to the point where you want your own platform as a service, where you have your own specific platform that it has not only been fully it's our premium models, but it has been fully integrated with all of your other systems.

7:01 And so our products really focus on that full continuum, and all of our products are content agnostic. This this is something we focused on for quite some time that we recognize that content would change over time. And even in just publishing, you end up with articles and newspapers and books and journals. And now you're those publishers are also doing blogs and podcasts and audiobooks. And so our products, because they're content agnostic and we haven't built it specific to any product, our solutions can support all of those types of content as well as support the multitude of business models that people implement with that content, whether it be selling it directing, selling subscriptions, selling tokens. And so having that complex solution that can handle the very large allows us to make it much easier to handle the very small and to really, you know, tie to any type of content they want.

7:56 And the other thing that we focused on, for quite some time is this idea that we are gonna be part of an ecosystem. People like to have best in class solutions. And so as as an enabler and best in class in some of our key areas, we know it's critical that they we integrate with everything else that they do. And so our products spend significant time and focus on this integration and alignment with other systems within our customers. And from the very large customers, we've integrated to as many as over a 100 integrations in some of our customers, because they have that many other systems that they rely on, and they still want our system as a key area that provides a best in class solution for what they do. So let me dive a bit more into the products themselves.

8:46 So we think of our our products in these categories. So we obviously can manage orders. So people can who have orders to enter, they can come through our systems, they can go through our systems, and then we can go through that out to receiving payments and tracking that end to end operational cycle. The so off to the left, those two areas are really what we could start to talk about as our commercial suite, and it integrates with product distribution in a big way. So how do people get their products to the customers? And we integrate with a lot of different services. Many are EDI based now, but as well as our own platform that can do product distribution directly.

9:24 And so that's really the core service in the center there. And then over to the right, we focus a lot on allowing customers to manage their intellectual property. It's a very complex world in publishing and media and all the areas that we deal with in trying to manage the licensing that goes along with it. Good examples are in audiobooks. I already talked about it. You have music licenses. You may have performance licenses. You have royalties that need to be paid. All of that needs to be calculated in a world of streaming where you're dealing with many millions of elements of very tiny bits of data. And now it has to be rolled up and calculated correctly or you're at risk. The risk of not managing your royalties correctly and being, in the worst case, sued for it. And in the best case, you're managing it very well and making it very visible to people so that you never have that issue. And that's what we strive to do is to give them that ability, and that's the sublicensing and royalty payments. I should mention sublicensing a bit more. And that the other thing is if you have a portfolio of intellectual property that you've managed that you've licensed, it's critical that you maximize the value of that. And you can do that sometimes through sublicensing.

10:32 Good examples are where you're an operator out of, say, Europe, and you deal with Europe and you deal you give you distribute your products to Europe, but you're not really doing much in Asia. Well, you can sublicense your rights out to Asia and have them do it. Their software makes that visible to you so you can maximize the value of the IP that you want and really get it distributed to the broadest markets you can. As a whole, that's what we focus on is allowing people to get the highest benefit from their IP, whether it be selling it directly, distributing it through multiple channels, or the IP that they own.

11:08 So let's talk about more. So one of our products I talked about is digital distribution. It's in our content division, and it focuses on digital distribution. So our INGENTA Connect platform has been around for quite a few years, about twenty years, and it has about a 130 very small publishers on it, that have been growing with us. And some of those publishers have grown to a size where they need their own platform, and they can migrate to our premium service. In fact, what you see here is three of our customers that have done this recently. They've been on our INGENTA Connect platform, and now they wanna migrate to our more premium offering where they have their own sites where they can manage some of their own look and feel. They can do all sorts of things on their own site, manage their business models, manage their integrations. And Intellect Discover is a site that did that early this year, so they're already live.

11:56 They migrated from our smallest platform to our largest platform. And Bentham Science is in their QA phase right now, their final QA to go live very shortly. And then Johnson Mathies, a brand new customer that just agreed to that they needed this upgrade as well, and this is a view of their QA site. And we launched Fresh about two weeks ago. What's great about what we're doing is this is a relatively seamless process for them to get up and running on the site, and then they can add everything else to it. Because we already have their content, we know what it is, we have all the data around it, we've very tried and true vehicles to getting them to upgrade. And so that's what happened. So Johnson and Mathew, by the time we had signed the contract and launched the project, we had their QA site up and running so they could actually start to see it and start to validate the core functionality while they added other features.

12:47 So these are very three real examples, this year that we've migrated from our very smallest platform up to our premium offering. There are stages in the middle, but all three of these opted for the premium offering. So when I talk about our digital distribution, what's important to note is that we have quite a few customers on this platform today. And I wanted to show you an examples some example sites that we have, and they run across a large number of entities. We're very well known in the NGO space, the nongovernmental or the intergovernmental space, and we work across a multitude of them right now. Here's some examples on here with our work with the OECD in the United Nations as well as many other organizations within several others within the United Nations, several others that are like intergovernmental organizations.

13:39 And we're actually working on one for intergovernmental marine group right now that should be going live early next year. We also work with associations, big professional associations and some examples are in here like the Microbiology Society, the National Council for Teachers of English in The US, the British Small Animal Veterinarians Association. And there are a huge number of these associations that we manage. And whereas it may seem like this is relatively simple, it's actually very complicated As you get into associations and subscriptions and free content and paid for content and the mix and match, and so there are quite a few business models. Also, you work in these types of spaces, you have to worry a lot about scholarly references.

14:26 You cross reference. You work with a lot of different services to make sure all of your content is tracked where it's referenced, and the real goal for these customers is to reach the broadest audience they can and get into as many hands as they can, but they need to track all that to make sure they're doing that, and they wanna produce content that does that. One the perfect examples of that is Research for Life. Research for Life is an organization that works across quite a few publishers to get research based medical content into the hands of people who need it most. They focus on distribution to parts of the world that might not have access to that research based content and they wanna put that together and package it in a way that it's most useful for them. That's one of the work we do with research for life. There are quite a few other sites we could talk about here, but the important thing is that we work with a very broad swath of people, again, from the very large to the very small.

15:22 They're and we do have some that are coming soon. We've announced some new sales this year, the Intergovern Marine Group annual reviews, which is a well known scholarly publication. And there is a Noble Magazine site, so we can also revamp the site to work as a magazine site. And we have quite a bit of interest in that, and we're doing that now for one customer. We'll continue to do that in the future. So that's what we do for digital distribution. Now when you get into our commercial offerings, this is a little harder for me to show you exactly what it is without running you through a training session on it. But this is the part that allows them to manage their business, their business from an end to end perspective. And you get some ideas of the flavor of customers we work with, some of which are some of the largest publishers in the world, Sage, Elsevier, and McGraw Hill, very large publishers, Penguin Random House. They use their software and have for quite some time. And it allows them to manage their orders and order processing, but it also allows them to manage their contracts with authors, their rights, and their royalties.

16:23 And they all have flavors of that that they're managing today. And some of the new groups, newer groups we have is WildBrain. So WildBrain is a group out of Canada that, does media. They do media and music, and they're using our software to manage all of their contracts, rights, and royalties. And they have such brands as Teletubbies, Strawberry Shortcake, and 60% of the Charles Schulz or Peanuts group. So they have quite a bit of of business flowing through, and we work with them on their rates and royalties as well. Revolver Record is a group out of The

16:54 UK that does just pure music record production. Their labels their record label, and they do record distribution and that music and all the tracking of the micro transactions that come through from all the streaming services, and they use our software for that. And then we work with some smaller customers, Cambridge University Press, Rosen Publishing Group. They're smaller, but they're, you know, based worldwide, and they actually use our software for the same types of purposes. So we have relatively large reach across a relatively large number of customers. And particularly for contracts rates and royalties or IP management side of things, we do have a pure multi tenancy offering and the single tenancy offering for our largest customers. As you can imagine, they would require that. Below there is just some screens and some of the dashboards they look at. There's there's a multitude of dashboards we could put up here, but they do really look at like, they need to know which products are earning what, how much they're earning, when they're earning it. And you can see down below there, there's another dashboard that talks about some of the product and product activity.

17:54 There's some product metrics, and then there's a royalty statement example. So they have quite a bit of screens on here, like, really we could show. But it's just to give you a flavor of what they do and why they do it. And it all does boil down a lot of times to that royalty statement so that they know their royalties are calculated correctly for everyone that they deal with, which can be hundreds if not thousands of people get royalty statements on a regular basis. So let me turn it over to John now so he can run you through some of our latest metrics and our latest numbers. John, do you wanna take over? Thanks, Scott. In in these these remaining slides, we'll look in a bit more detail at some of the financials and KPIs underpinning the business. Scott already mentioned earlier about INGENTA being mission critical. And to put that into context, we're referring to our content and commercial divisions.

18:48 So the the content division is our website business, essentially, and the commercial division is our back end IP management software. So the the first KPI here talks to the sticky nature of the the INGENTA business. Our customers become reliant on our software and services, and INGENTA provides valued services to customers. And, you know, they've been with us for well in excess of fifteen years, but on average, fifteen for the for the top 15 customers.

19:20 The second point references the stable base of recurring revenue. So the 80% recurring revenues covers both traditional maintenance revenues, but another important area for us is recurring services. So lots of customers don't want to manage technology, don't want to manage hosting, processing, reporting aspects, and we provide services that recur that that they're keen to take off us. And these these all build up stickiness of our business.

19:53 It's important to say here that the the remaining 20% is is also very important, and it's it's professional services. And it's a it's a key focus for us because we actively pursue change requests because it it's profitable, number one. It further embeds the software because it just gets more ingrained into all their other systems. And it was really it's a key driver of our growth in the first half of twenty twenty three. So the cash bullet, this references the the strong cash generation, which has allowed us to invest in product, which we're now selling, and also provide shareholder return. So examples of this are the the 2,200,000 tender offer that we did at the back end of last year and also the the consistent level of dividends with $05,000,000 paid out in in 2022.

20:45 The final point is is referring to the the targeted EBITDA margins of 20%. So we nearly achieved this in 2022, but we're well on the way to that in 2023. And this is encouraging as it shows the previous restructuring efforts that we've we've been through have put us in a position to grow but grow profitably.

21:13 So this next slide illustrates the recent progress in terms of efficiency and revenue growth. So as a bit of background, the business moved out of a restructuring phase at the end of twenty twenty one and returned to revenue growth in 2022, which the numbers show here and is also continuing in the first half of twenty three. The revenue growth in 2023, as I mentioned earlier, was driven by professional services work for the existing customer base. So that's the the 20% nonrecurring. Encourage encouragingly, after the recent 2,000,000 of new contract wins that we we announced, we anticipate there'll be further professional services work as we put the the customers live on our systems.

21:58 And then from from that, we'll build up and increase our recurring revenues as they move over to support and hopefully take up some of the services I was mentioning as well.

22:10 The efficiency piece is signaled by the EBITDA numbers progressions shown here, and it shows that we can grow in a controlled manner. And interestingly, the EBITDA reported in the first half of twenty three was bigger than that for the whole of 2021.

22:28 The next metrics show that profit is converted into cash. As you can see in '23, the numbers in the '23 2023 cash numbers, there can be some variability in timing of annual renewals around the year end. And in the current period, some of the the cash for 2023 revenues was received at the back end of 2022, although we anticipate that this deficit will reverse later in the year as renewals kick off again at the back end of the year.

23:01 The last line shows the the the permanent head cap position of the business, and we augment this with offshore resources as as we deem fit really. So, you know, new business comes on, we'll take on PMs and that kind of thing to to put put the software in.

23:24 So development targets. So what are our targets as we move forward into '23 and beyond? I think, ultimately, these will be refinements of the strategies that we've already implemented, and they're really there to to focus on revenue growth and more efficiency. In terms of the revenue growth, we're refining our sales and marketing approach to our target markets by bringing in industry specific expertise, especially in music and media. And I think the the announcements in the first half of the year show that that started to work, you know, three deals with 2,500,000 of total contract value. Another deal in August with $05,000,000 of contract value. It's all good progress as we move forward. We're also doing work on lead generation.

24:12 So we want to build on our success in NGOs and trade associations Scott talked about. We've got recent wins here, strong references. It's it's an area that we can really look to to to leverage. On the efficiency side, I think one of the key things we've identified is we need to optimize our our use of AWS. So this is becoming a key component of our services now. And as we as we refine this and optimize it, we'll generate cost savings and service benefits ultimately to our customers. So I think one of the the key things here is to is to prebuy capacity. You get better rates, and we'll we'll be looking at doing that kind of thing.

25:00 Right. So the in the in the final slides, we'll run through some of the the key financial statements. So the first one up here is is a bit of revenue analysis. So the bar chart to the far right shows the shows our focus on our two core divisions, so the the commercial and content teams. And these are the ones that we're expecting will will drive growth. And from the latest Cavendish forecast that's out in the market at the moment, with the the the forecast is for revenue of 11,100,000 in 2023, and that will be mainly driven by the the content division as it, you know, puts the puts the new customer wins live and takes them over to recurring revenue.

25:47 The middle chart shows the geographical mix of our revenues, and we've previously talked about our underexposure in The US. And it's quite encouraging that some of the new wins that we announced earlier are for some significant players in the in The US market, and that will go to to narrow that gap. And there's plenty more to do there, and we're actively looking with the sales teams to to boost that.

26:16 So we've we've talked a lot already about revenue growth and the efficiency improvements. So I just wanted to focus on a couple of points here on the on the income statement. So I think one of the things that's has a bit of variability recently is is because we've got improved profitability now. It means we're placing a higher value on our available tax losses. And you can see in 2022, there was a a £300,000 deferred tax credit. It basically means our our tax losses of £20,000,000 that we've brought forward have got some some good value now going forward as we as we start to make money. The other thing to point out is all our research and development is charged to the p and l. There's nothing in the balance sheet. It's it's very clear.

27:06 So on to the balance sheet. So I think the main things to note here, so there's no capitalized research and development as I just mentioned. We've got the 1,400,000 of deferred tax asset relating to the losses. We've got £10,000,000 of distributable reserves, which supports the future dividends and any potential buybacks that we may want to do. And also no borrowings other than some minimal leases in the business. So on to the final cash flow side. We mentioned the the working capital variability previously where the the 2023 revenue was paid up at the back end of 2022.

27:51 But as I mentioned before, we expect that that deficit to reverse in the second half. So other points of note here are the structural changes to the business as we move away from a CapEx model and associated leasing costs. We're now very much a a cloud based business.

28:08 And finally, the the business is committed to shareholder returns that are illustrated in the 2022 numbers. You know, 2,200,000 tender offer, £500,000 dividends. And in terms of the outlook from the the Cavendish forecast, it's a prediction of a a 4 p 4p dividend for for 2023. I think with that, I'll hand you back over so we can pick up any potential q and a. Scott, John, thank you very much for your presentation this afternoon. Ladies and gentlemen, please do Just while the company take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I'd like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via your investor dashboard.

28:58 As you can see, we have received a number of questions throughout today's presentation. Now please ask you to read out the questions and give responses where appropriate to do so, and I'll pick up from you at the end. Sure. First of all, thank you all for being so engaged. I'm glad we got quite a few questions in, and we're happy to answer any of them, any and all questions. So let's just run through them. So what is the average contract size and what is the typical sales cycle? For us, as I was talking through the presentation and told you about how we work from the very small to very large, there's actually a lot of variability in contract size. We have contracts that are in the $6.07 figure range, and we have contracts that are £2,000 a year. So because we work with very small to very large, that cycle varies a lot. If you would say average contract size, average new contracts tend to be a few 100,000.

29:49 And the sales cycle is anywhere between two to nine months, really. So some of the ones the wins that just happened, one of those came up and we won well, it was a relatively large contract win, and it took us about two months. Two months working with them, a bit of prototyping, and they were ready to sign. That was one of the larger ones. The other one was a very RFP driven process, so that took much longer for a nongovernmental organization. And so those cycles vary quite wildly, and we have really what I would say is we structured our teams to do that. So we have teams that are structured at the very small sales, which really drive for quick closure, and then we have teams that are structured for the highly collaborative sales, which are at the top end of the market because it's most important that we are answering and solving their business needs, and that's really what we focus on.

30:39 The next one is can you give an indication of the size of the pipeline compared to this time last year? I don't have the exact numbers to hand. It's very similar in size to the size of last year. It might be slightly less because we've had more wins and we're closing things at a more rapid pace with our shifts to, really growth, which is what's happened over the past, year and a half. It's where we shifted from repair to growth. As we've shifted to growth, we've gotten faster and faster at closing things, and we've gotten more rigorous with our pipeline and managing our pipeline so that it only tracks real deals. I I will say we are doing extensive marketing both through through multiple digital means, email campaigns, that type of thing, but also many of the Google Ads, those types of things to really build up the lead lead generation and inbound. And we've added some consultants in both marketing and really industry experts at the other end to help for sales that are larger and to keep those on.

31:39 But from a pipeline year to year, I think the pipeline is relatively the same. But, we don't track a pipe. We it doesn't make it in our pipeline until we know for sure there is a real deal that could be had. So the next one you might be able to help, John. Your adjusted EPS in h one was 9.4 p and forecast for the full year is 12 p. What is causing you to expect such a relatively weak h two with 2.6 p? You can tackle that. Yeah. So so I think the the second half is we've got a lot of new wins on board. With with new wins, you're not fully in control sometimes of how quickly those projects will run out. So we we can certainly do them quickly, but we do need the buy in from the customer. So this is a conservative forecast for for the second half of the year, essentially.

32:26 In general, I'd say John and I both tend to be conservative with our numbers. We wanna make sure you're getting the real story. And so we always tackle it from the if it's not known, it's unknown. And so we we tend to be conservative. Your cash balance is looking very healthy. Are there any plans to do a further tender offer? There are no current plans to do a further tender offer, but we would never rule it out. What you've seen throughout this is, you know, we're highly stable, cash generative, and we do generate cash. And we're constantly looking at the best use of that cash and the best way to return value to shareholders. We have many discussions about that. We look at all options. We look at further tender offers, increases in dividends, which we're doing some of right now. And as well as where's a significant push to see how we can do merchant acquisitions and look at what we could add to the company that would return a lot of value to our shareholders.

33:19 And so the next question, is there much scope to further increase margin? There is scope to further increase margin. Where we see them most likely scope is on our smallest customers, however. So because our smallest customers are entering multi tenancy software as a service platforms that require very little overhead for us, those come up at a much higher margin than the largest customers. Largest customers are it's a competitive market, and so we need to keep costs and services at a competitive level to win so that it'll be harder to get those margins up on the largest ones. What that means from our overall numbers, however, is because you're getting making higher smaller higher margins on the smallest part parts of the business. You end up with a very stabilizing effect to it so that you get high margins here, slightly lesser margins over there, and you it ends up helping stabilize the financials and keep them on more smooth as well as the very smallest great margins don't really show up in overall numbers very well because they're very small deals.

34:20 To what extent do you come up against Fidel as a competitor? Since I'm not sure how to say the name, I'm gonna say I've never come up against them as a competitor. It's something I'd have to look into and find out what they do. John, have you heard of Fidel? I haven't. No. Okay. So we have not come up against that in all the talks we've had across industries. You talked about progress with your music product. Can you provide some more detail on recent wins? So some of the some of the wins that we've had have been, Revolver Records expanded what they're doing with us, and so they've expanded and they're working with us for their not only their current platform, but their author portal. And WildBrain first came to us through music, and WildBrain has actually started using their music product with us, but has since expanded beyond that. So they have music associated with telepuppies and everything else. And so they've expanded beyond that now to track far more of their business.

35:15 We have this in this area, we have quite a large pipeline of very small deals. We are being conservative as we entered the music market. We you know, it is one of the harder things to do is to break into a market, and we wanna make sure we do it and do it well. So we're really targeting more the smaller end of the market right now and looking at a lot of potential small deals rather than larger deals. We have several contracts out that could be signed any time, but, you know, that kind of thing. But it's it's an ongoing thing, and we have added industry expertise here to help close those deals faster. What are your thoughts on the second half of year, which are typically weaker? And are you seeing an increase in competition? John has talked a little bit about the second half of the year that we're projecting it a bit more conservatively, as you can see from the numbers that are out there.

36:05 However, you know, we have had some new wins. So for us, that means we get recurring revenues going faster so that we have some balancing effects to what would be weaker. And as to the question of are we seeing an increase in competition, actually, we're seeing an interesting change in our competitive landscape. And some of our competitors recently been acquired and are going through some trials and tribulations, and that's providing some opportunities for us. And there are key competitors in both product lines that they've had acquisitions done. And from us being a publicly traded entity, people are seeing us as a stable home for them. John, was there anything you wanted to add to that one? No. I don't think so. No. It's not yeah. I think like Scott's saying, it's really, I think we're we're seeing opportunities.

36:51 Yeah. Okay. So that's all the questions that people submitted. I do wanna take everyone thank everyone for spending some time with us here. And from my perspective, you know, we we have a proven track record over forty five years. We're playing in some of the best markets in the world, and now we're a 100% focused on growth and expansion. And so from all of those things, we expect this company to really return great value to shareholders, and we've done everything we can do to get that value back to them as quickly as possible through some of the means that you've seen through our financials. Scott, John, thank you for updating investors today. Can I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that management team can better understand your views and expectations?

37:42 This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure we'll be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of INGENTA PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. Good afternoon to you all. Thank you, everyone.