eMudhra (NSE:EMUDHRA) Q1 2027 Earnings Call

0:00 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Akash, moderator for the conference call. Welcome to eMudhra Limited Q1 and FY twenty twenty six-twenty twenty seven Earnings Conference Call. We have with us today Mr. Venkatraman Srinivasan, Executive Chairman Mr. Kaushik Srinivasan, Hold Time Director Mr. Arvind Srinivasan, Director and Mr. Ritesh Raj Pariani, Chief Financial Officer. As a reminder, all participants will be in listen only mode. And there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note this conference is recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Venkatraman Shirdi Vasan. Thank you and over to you sir.

0:51 Thank you. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining Q1 investor and analyst call today. We are pleased to report a strong start to FY twenty seven. During the quarter, our total income grew by 28% year on year to INR $1,925,000,000, while EBITDA increased by over 40% to INR $5.00 4,000,000, taking our EBITDA margin to 26.2%. Profit after tax grew 28% year on year to rupees $320,000,000 with PAT margin remaining healthy at 16.6%. Of the 28% growth in total income, approximately 13% was contributed by the Cryptos acquisition, while the balance reflects healthy organic growth across our core businesses led by continued strength in our enterprise solution portfolio.

1:44 Enterprise solutions remained our primary growth engine, growing approximately 50% year on year and contributing 65% of total income, while our services business also delivered growth of around 5% year on year, supported by new customer additions in The United States. International markets now contribute 6066% of our revenue, and we continue to see encouraging momentum across Europe, North America, The Middle East and Africa. Europe was particularly encouraging this quarter. Through cryptos, we achieved our first sale of eMudhra's CertiNEXT certificate lifecycle management platform to a large German data center customer, while also securing the first eMCNR deployment integrated with brain sign trust services for an Austrian city municipality.

2:37 This is an important milestone as it validates product market fit and demonstrates our ability to successfully cross sell the broader eMudhra platform into the Cryptas customer base. Cryptas contributed approximately $100,000,000 of revenue during what is typically a seasonally weak quarter in Europe. Our Trust Service business saw a temporary decline during the quarter following the transition to a new global security standard for digital signature tokens, which comes into effect in September. As customers and channel partners prepared for this transition, demand for legacy tokens reduced, resulting in a temporary impact on Trust service revenue during the quarter.

3:22 We expect this to normalize as the industry completes the transition. On the innovation front, our R and D investment remained tightly aligned with the evolving cybersecurity landscape. During the quarter, we introduced Cryptographic Bill of Materials or CBOM analysis within CertiNEXT, enabling enterprises to discover where cryptography is deployed across their IT environment and helping them prepare for the transition to post quantum cryptography. We believe increasing regulatory and industry focus on post quantum readiness together with the need for organization to inventory and modernize their cryptographic assets, create a significant long term opportunity for our certificate life cycle management and the PKA platform.

4:08 We also continue to strengthen our broader product portfolio with AI powered capabilities in eMCNR and the commercial launch of private trust consent management models. Looking ahead, we continue to believe that cybersecurity and are becoming increasingly interconnected. As enterprises deploy AI at scale, trust, identity, and cryptography become a foundational infrastructure. Our five platform strategy positions us well to capitalize on these structural trends while continuing to expand internationally. Finally, from an outlook perspective, our guidance remains unchanged from what we shared in the previous quarter, that is to achieve an organic growth of 18% and work towards achieving a PATR growth of 23%.

4:57 We remain focused on driving profitable product led growth, expanding our international footprint, executing our UAE Trust service launch and maintaining disciplined EBITDA and PATR margin while continuing to invest in innovation. With that, let me hand over to our CFO, Mr. Ritesh Pariani, to walk you through the quarter's numbers. Thank you, Chairman. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm pleased to share the highlights of our q one FY twenty twenty seven financial performance. Our total income for q one financial year twenty twenty seven was INR $1,925,000,000, marking a 27.8% year over year growth. Gross profit for the quarter grew 36.4% year over year to INR 1,103 billion with a margin of 57.3%.

5:45 EBITDA for the quarter was INR 504,000,000,000, registering a 40.4% over... Year over year growth with a margin of 26.2%. Profit after tax for the quarter was INR 320,000,000, reflecting a 27.9% year over year growth with a margin of 16.6%. Now coming to segment performance. The Enterprise Solutions segment generated revenue of $23,000,000 while the Trust Service revenue was INR $284,000,000. That concludes my remarks. Thank you, and we may now open the floor for the question and answer session. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Questions.

7:01 The first question comes from from the line of from Well with the Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi., wanted to understand about the private cloud platform. Is this product live? And if you can, you know, help us understand what kind of deployment opportunities you're seeing for this platform as of now? Yeah. And so product, as you know, comprises of many modules. This is mainly located to the privacy and consent management. We already lie with consent management capabilities, which we are demonstrating and showing a lot of... Doing a lot of pilots, proof of concepts, and very soon a few wins as well. Because India, as you know, there's a DPDP act, and people have to implement. Large organizations basically get, I think, time till the end of the year or sometime next year, and many other organizations have to implement.

7:51 But the product capabilities also involve additional capabilities of how do you discover and classify the personally identifiable information in your landscape that includes storage and files, folders, databases, etcetera. So these are the incremental modules that will very soon be kind of launched, which will... It'll encompass consent management, data discovery, data classification, and also how do you handle personal data in the context of when you send it to third party vendors, like your CRM vendor or whatnot. Got it. And, see, this is, a new addition to our product stack. Right? So how should we think about over a p... We have, say, three to four years, what's the kind of opportunity for this kind of platform? And not just from an India perspective because you cover a lot of other regulations in Europe, China, etcetera. So how should we think about opportunity in India? And when do you even plan to take this product abroad?

8:48 Immediately, the focus is India because there's a TPDP act, and people have to comply. And anyone dealing with personal data, and particularly those that are b two c focused, have to kind of do it more quickly. And those that are large, obviously, have a timeline. So this... I mean, so we are working towards opportunities. We may get a better sense of the direction in a quarter or two, at which point we may be able to sort of quantify where this can head. But obviously, the time is large because everybody in India has to implement. And slowly, once we get some foothold here, we will take it to other markets where these privacy regulations are forming or more nascent in their adoption. Got it. Very clear. Also, you mentioned in your press release about the trust services in UAE. So why why... When do you expect to get the QTSC license in UAE? And if you can just help us understand what exactly are we building here? Is it like another equivalent esign along with way pass, or is it something beyond that?

9:46 Yeah. Hi. This is Arvind here. Yeah. So to answer the... Yes. Hi. Hi, sir. To answer the first part of your question, we're essentially the final step of the process to getting the license in terms of license application and such. So we expect that to be completed sometime towards the end of this quarter to beginning of next quarter, where upon completion, we should be able to launch the respective service. From what it is, it is basically similar to assigning the esign... You know, Adaari esign type in India, but with a local identity ecosystem, predominantly meant to be sold, you know, to the local market for the banking and, you know, several other segments that we operate in. Okay. So just for my understanding, since we have a large banking customer base already there, does this product actually complement our eM signer offering in US?

10:41 Yeah. It's meant to complement our eM signer offering in UAE. But, obviously, the process of embedding these banks and, you know, regulation... Regulated entities is a timed process. You know? It it will happen over a duration. So we are in the early works of, you know, getting that set up and up and running, right, in terms of the process of go to market as Okay. So it's more like a retail product, but will also get integrated with eM Sign. Is that understanding correct? I'm sorry? It's more like a retail other equivalent signature, and then we'll get an indication with eM sign and all. It's not a retail product. It is enterprise oriented in The UAE market. The technical characteristics of the product are similar to, you know, an eSign product here. But the actual market for this product, it's not a retail oriented offering. It is enterprise oriented offering. Even here, Surabhi, if you see other eSign, though, finally, the retail customer sign, the sale is predominantly to banks and the NBFCs and all that. So similar thing will happen there also. Yeah.

11:46 Got it. Got it. Sir, on the trust, I had one question. With this CCA mandate to move to FIS one forty three, right, what I understand is that these tokens manufacturers need to recertify themselves. So just wanted to understand the supply issue that we faced here. Were we able to solve that? Is it largely behind us? And from q two onwards, can we see the trust business, you know, in the coming course of growth? No. In the token, mainly the ePass token was the major token, then proxy token. But proxy, I don't think they are getting resatuated. But the ePass token, they have submitted the application for resaturation. Everything is done. So it is a little bit pending from the CCI side.

12:31 So then the other one new token has come called the innate token, which is already certified, but they are not able to choose in volumes. So that's where the capacity is very low. So mostly by September, the CPaaS will be able to get certificate, and then, again, it will start... The clock on volume will increase. Got it. Just one last question. I wanted to understand how much was the revenue for Cryptas in this quarter? 20 crores. 20 crores. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Pankaj Sushneva from Avis Capital. Please go ahead, sir. Yes. Hi. Good afternoon. I have two very quick questions. One is relating to the trust services, which we have already spoken about.

13:22 I... We... I I just understood that the things are going to get streamlined by March. So... Oh, sorry. By September. So this means that even the q two will get impacted both from top line and bottom line perspective. At least that's what my understanding is. Is that right? My related question to this is, is it only the the the matter which you explained is the reason for downfall, or is there some competition pressure also which is kind of driving our volumes down? Now if you see, our general volume of token sale in the quarter was almost $8.09 crore, or that was that was the volume. Because this time... And everybody was talking. This time, the partners are all not talking it because it is expiring by September. That's why almost 5 to 7 crore volume got less. But that is... In the token, the profit is not much. So on an average, EMUDHRA's margin may be 10% or something like that. So that's where the... Well, the top line may continue to be less during the next quarter also. But the bottom line, it doesn't have much effect effect on the bottom line.

14:28 Okay. Okay. Got it. My second question, sir, is, I know we have grown fairly well when it comes to international enterprise solutions. But the the... When I... When we get into segment profitability, the the the margins over there are far lower than what we see in the domestic side. So how do you see that over a period of time, sir? If you see international, it consists of two, three element. One element is the services business, where, obviously, because in the product business, gross margins are 70, 78% in services business. It may be sometime 18%, 20% like this. So that is one area, which is, again, if you see last year itself, we have told it is around $1.50 crore kind of thing. Then the other thing, the cryptos business, again, it is roughly around 100 crore business, which was not profitable at all. Gradually, it is improving. This year, we expect profit.

15:23 So... And third is the our own product segment. So in our own product segment, the profitability is even better than the Indian business. But combining all these things put together, the overall profitability at at a gross profit... At the at the segment based profitability limit becomes lower compared to the Indian segment profitability. But over time, with with the cryptos again becoming profitable and our own product segment increasing or services segment, the profitability will improve. So this is one side. Second side is because it is a new attempt in several markets, several senior executives had to report. And the senior executives are very costly, 200,000, $300,000 per person like that. So that is another thing. So that will again get offset when the volume improves.

16:13 So over time, it is likely to improve. Sir, the Q1 margin stood at almost, like, 20 odd percent, little over 20 odd percent. What is the outlook we have for the whole '27, sir? Whole 2627. Probably transfer business. No. Separately, we are not put what is the profitability for that. But overall, we are expecting the 25% growth on path and then 18% growth on the top line. Okay. Because little bit later in the... It will adjust. Oh, got it, sir. So my last question is that in one of the... When I was going through the financials at one of the places, it's saying saying saying that some of the subsidiaries contributed a consolidated net loss of almost, like, four or two. So what is this lot about? And are we expecting that to continue, or it will settle down over a period of time?

17:06 A lot of how many crores? 4 crores, sir. 4 crore, predominantly, it will be the European subsidiary, your BV. Because in BV, some legal expenses were incurred and all that. And now the cryptos is under BV. When cryptos become profitable, it will also become profitable. And apart from cryptos, independently in BV, we are to... We appointed a senior salesperson in Rome, and he is changing several leads. If even one or two materializes, it will turn profitable profitable. We are not expecting the loss to continue in the current year. So as far as Salesforce, we are very confident of making it profitable in the 05/27. Is that right? Yes. Yes. Because already one sale to data center has happened of our certain product and another sale along with train... Same. It's one of the subsidiary of Cryptas.

18:01 So that has also happened. So with that, we are very confident. And then the cryptos product sale also happened in our other geography. Okay. Got it, sir. I think that's all I have. Thank you for the question. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Mr. Srinathvi from Bellwether Capital. Please go ahead. Sir. Arvind, just wanted to understand how is the outlook for The U. S. Products business. Can you give us some qualitative understanding as to how the lead pipeline is? What are the new initiatives? Now we have rebranded both our products as well as got our data center. We have now three locations that we are in.

18:47 So now moving forward, you know, how is the lead pipeline? What has been the broad feedback, from the customers? That would be great. Yeah. No. Thank you for that. So I I think, you know, The US business on the product side, we see reasonably good growth in the lead pipeline and the initiatives that we're doing. So to quickly put some sort of view to this, I think we've already reiterated the university federation in common, which was something that we won last year. So more and more universities are getting onboarded into this, which brings greater brand visibility to us and the CertainX brand within the context of the North American markets. So on the one side, we are trying to go deeper into that segment, see how further we can mine, you know, that particular segment for more of our offerings, more of our solution, add on things that we can position within that federation of the community and maybe other universities also outside of the federation.

19:46 On the other side, we'll also, you know, have active lead initiatives going in... And conversations in advanced stages on some IoT related use cases on PKI. So these are sometimes industry agnostic, but in this particular case, some of them are in health care and some of them are different. But we see that we are able to add some value here with our stack in terms of bringing trust at our device level. Third major element that we're working on is, you know, general pipeline building and lead generation and activity, activity in the upper mid market segment and some of the lower enterprise segment within US, and we see some positive conversations there around SSL trust and all of these things. With the main agenda in US being that with this coming off, you know, the forty seven day expiry of SSL and then the post quantum shift and these sort of trends playing in, there is a general, you know, increased awareness around what we're doing and perception around our services and things that we have to offer. So I think the thing that the local brand and, you know, the data center and everything you did was some of the baseline requirements for us to be able to have all these conversations and sort of build a healthy pipeline and, you know, lead generation and get into these engagements as we are today.

21:00 Did you feel somewhere later this year or somewhere next year, we will start seeing better traction and slightly better clip of growth, especially in The US products business as we settle as the incoming kind of get implemented. And just wanted to clarify, has has that university business already started, or is it something in the pipeline this year? No. The university business has already started, and that has been ongoing. So, you know, I think, generally, we have, you know, the growth rate in the enterprise segment of about 25%, which we are maintaining. The outlook is positive, but, you know, there are these pipelines that take some amount of time in North America, especially when you talk into this segment. And, obviously, there are several factors what we know beyond what we may not know. Right? So we factor in all this when we say that we're growing at a certain rate. So I can say that, you know, the outlook definitely looks positive. The pipeline is growing well, and, you know, we have a captive client base that we can expand upon, so it's more meaningful in terms of what further we can achieve.

22:01 But... Yeah. So I think that we're in the right direction. One more thing is that university network, already, we are issuing 500 assistance certificate every day. So we can already start it. Really, momentum has to further improve. Exactly. Got it. Got it. So just wanted to get a sense on, you know, seeing the deal wins on SecurePass. It looks like that business is actually growing faster than our top line. You know, what is working what is working for this business, especially in India? You know, if you can highlight some some key saliencies or use cases. You know, want to understand the privilege identity, privilege access management, where is the growth actually coming in? And again, here, could you give some sort of outlook as to how the next twelve, eighteen months look for these set of products, which seem to be growing on the pace of it, seeing all the wins we have, sir?

22:57 Yes. SecurePass in India, I mean, two, three things. Right? So one is there is compliance mandate by central bank and capital markets regulator on stronger authentication. So all banks and capital markets entities are forced to basically improve their cyber security posture. The second is the deal values are much larger than even 13x. So typical secure pass for a large bank or a large government entity is in the range of $45.06 crores to to start with and probably higher. And the third thing is privileged identity, privileged access management are again becoming compliance mandates, not only from regulation, but more from voluntary cybersecurity posture because many entities have recently experienced data breach. And typically, a data breach happens only when a critical administrator privilege or a credential gets compromised.

23:46 Right? So so these are the three trends that are driving more and more secure pass adoption locally. And which is why given the scale of implementation we have done here, we're also looking at taking it to adjoining markets like Philippines, Indonesia, as well as Africa and on to some extent now recently some conversations have started in Middle East as well. So the idea is to expand the reach of this product to other markets apart from India. So outlook wise, quite positive because many more deals in pipeline are there in the Indian context itself where many are under RFP evaluation in various stages. But once international picks up, maybe the growth can be kind of maintained at a fairly aggressive clip for the product. Sure. If if we were to implement the full suite, including payment time and and the works, these these deals over a period of time could be north of, like, 10 crore engagement per bank.

24:39 But just to get a feel of how large each of these, you know, implementations can be. Yeah. Yeah. That deal value is possible per large bank. Right? So mid sized bank may not have that kind of spending capacity, but definitely large bank, government, central government agency, like critical data center installations for state governments, etcetera, have that kind of deal value capacity for the product. Got it. Last one on this is is defense also a market for this product? And have you been engaging with the government on this, or is it largely banks and related? No. No. Defense also because already we have a defense agency that is a customer where they have implemented identity access management across 200 applications that are internal. The conversations are going on with various other main defense as well as other sort of ancillary agencies of defense.

25:29 Got it. Thanks, Kashy. Just the last question on Cryptas. We needed to kind of in source the CA code or I'm not technical. So some way we could backward integrate on the product so that we could save cost and also move some of the cost service cost to India so that we can support them from here. Have all those moving parts been put in place? And is that reduction in loss because of those initiatives? And where do you see all of this playing out from Cryptas loss management? Yeah. Cryptas was not really a, I mean, cost saving from just moving everything because already we are developing IP here. The main thing was earlier, if you remember the whole narrative, they were using third party products that were competitor products to us. And the idea was how do we substitute that with some of the Cryptas' own IP. So that integration effort was what continued our IP. So that integration effort was what was done over the last sort of six, seven months. The proof of the pudding is now the fact that a large German data center operator has now taken the stack... Cryptas stack backed by fully EMUDHRA stack of our CLM, our CE, and everything.

26:40 And similarly, PrimeSign, which is Cryptas subsidiary, took eM Signer along with their signing service, which is a qualified signing service across European Union for a city municipality. So these are first two very, very important and critical wins that hopefully lay the foundation for sale of our software completely along with Cryptas' IP to their customers backed by local support. So all of the IP development anyway continues to happen out of India. So that will save them from purchasing the KeyFactor software as a back end. So to that extent, the cost saving will be there. However, they substitute our certain XTMCA sort of key factor product there, the cost saving will be there because to that extent, transfer pricing will come to India. Thank you, sir. Thanks, guys. Congratulations on a good set of numbers.

27:29 Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Mr. Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. So my first question is on the enterprise business, obviously, is the largest chunk, and it has been growing 50% Y o Y. And, you know, if you can if you can provide the Y o Y organic number for the enterprise? And all... I mean, like, within the enterprise, the shift is mostly happening, you know, largely towards cyber... Cybersecurity and towards, like, you know, direct... You know, selling direct. So within that, you know, how we see these growth happening for the enterprise piece?

28:16 And, also, if you can elaborate more on the the sale that you have done to the, you know, European, like, data center. So is it the first, like, data center client that we're having? And what is the opportunity in terms of, you know, selling to data centers? And, you know, what is the size of the contract if you can provide that? Yeah. So on the product, if you take just the product growth and how much was organic, how much was inorganic, as we outlined, Cryptas' number is 20 crore. Right? So the base was about going from, I think, 80 to last One Eighteen to 18 to 20. Yeah. So about 25% contribution came from cryptas in numbers. 25% was the organic growth in the product segment.

29:01 That is, I think, answered your first question. On the second one saying cryptas, what is the opportunity from a data center standpoint, and what is the opportunity for Cryptas generally as a whole? Cryptas has a number of marquee customers, particularly in the German speaking European market. So this is the first one. They are also, you know, already having existing customers within the banking, within insurance, within oil and gas. So all of these now become prospects, and they are chasing a fairly good pipeline of customers selling our product into their customer base. Hopefully, we see some of those results come to fruit in the next few quarters. And three, from a data center specific standpoint, because, again, data centers require access by people into various systems to manage them. And because these are critical assets and critical infrastructure, over time, the security posture and security requirement of data centers and people accessing into them will need stronger authentication, which is where our solutions come in. Right? So it's a fairly large addressable market. I don't know exactly how to quantify it, but we are chasing similar opportunities in many other regions, particularly on securing access of people into data centers.

30:14 Okay. And also, now the credit question to the, you know, AI and data center. Obviously, you know, with more and more enterprises adopting the agentic solutions, and the number of agents will increase significantly in the system over the next one to two years. So, Bruno, how do you want to capture that? Obviously, we are having an solution for, like, agentic... No. No. Agent tech authentication, not just creating the agents and all. So what is the opportunity there? And, you know, are we getting any revenue from there as of now? Yeah. So I'll first address what is the problem statement that agentic AI basically drives, and then probably talk a little bit about the opportunity and where we are in terms of the product and maybe adoption.

31:05 So AI, if you look at it broadly, the Gen AI is operating at five levels, infra, the application, etcetera. But one critical layer of that is what is known as AI trust and governance. Because if agents are communicating with one another or communicating with systems, then you need to identify the agents. And agents typically cannot enter, like, a username, password, or an OTP. So therefore, they need some kind of an identity, which is a... Like a digital signature certificate attached to the agent so that they can securely communicate, number one. Number two, if agents start taking decisions on behalf of humans. So let's say if an agent decides to give a loan and quantify that loan, then again, there is some level of traceability, verifiability, and tomorrow, what is the legal validity or recognition, etcetera. Those are all topics where people are, you know, framing policies. But, again, that requires usage of digital signature certificate.

31:56 So the trust and governance... So as agent AI deployments increase, these two become critical where digital signature certificates and identity to agents become a critical component. Number two, what is the opportunity? Over time, I think this is the future where agentic AI and Gen AI adoption will likely ramp up in enterprises, although it is still fairly early stage. But as these ramp up, we will obviously be a beneficiary, and AI, we hope, a structural tailwind and believe that it's a structural tailwind to our business. Number three, where are we in terms of adoption? Probably pretty early because very early conversations on at least understanding what is the risk of agent AI starting to take place. This will be followed by at least some kind of pilots in terms of how do we now secure the agent AI landscape and then followed by, over time, you know, better adoption. But we are still in pretty early stage. So it's hard to quantify what could be the opportunity right now. But maybe a year down, I think we may be in a better position once we start, you know, at least doing some pilots to be able to quantify.

32:58 So are we having any specific products to cater to this kind of problem, or it it will be sold as a part of the existing product suite that we are selling to the data vendors and enterprises? Yeah. This... Our existing product suite, namely, 13x and SecurePass are being significantly strengthened to capture this. The other thing is there is also a lot of interesting work done by various startups in The US in the agentic AI security space. Some of them have come to our attention as well. So if at all, some bolt on capability that we may be missing needs to be added, that may be an area that we may pursue sometime down the future, although nothing immediately. Right? So we are doing active r and d, plus, you know, looking at various ideas that are there in the market on how identity, security, access in the context of agents will need to be enforced.

33:49 Okay. And just last question from my side. In terms of the EBITDA margins that we have seen for the out of quarter, it has, you know, shown significant improvement Y o Y. So if you can provide the bridge in terms of what contributed to this expansion, maybe in terms of, you know, the the different products, geography, if you can provide some bridge. And, also, what is this sustainable range? Are you seeing, you know, some further expansion that could happen as we sell more product based solutions? No. As I said, this quarter margin slightly improved because the token sales are less, which has a less margin is lower in the overall composition. That is one thing. And the other thing is if you see the enterprise, the sale is higher compared to... Because the trust service as a percentage is lower, and the enterprise sale has a higher margin.

34:41 So these two led to more higher margin. But coming to the normalization, maybe margins may be around... It may not suddenly further increase because they are putting more salespeople across geographies. Some senior people have joined very recently. So those extra salaries will happen and all that. So with the result, overall, if you see, we we may be able to maintain this EBITDA at 23% and the path at around 16, 16 and a half percent. Okay, sir. Thank you. And all the best. Thank you, sir. The next question comes from the line of Mr. Kanish Gupta from SS Family House. Please go ahead, sir. Hello, Very good afternoon to you. My question would be, like, if we establish FY twenty six as a strong reference point for the business, could you help us understand your FY thirty vision for company, and how do you expect the revenue mix across your trust service enterprise and transformation services to evolve?

35:45 And where do you see the major growth drivers emerging? If we... Actually, we do not know, but we made a three year vision. So our three year vision is to achieve two x profitability in three years, but two x revenue growth may not happen. We are expecting organic growth of 18 to 20% per year. Plus, if at all, any acquisitive growth will be there, it will be there. But as of now, our vision is to have two x path in three years. Three years means that is '27, '28, '29. Yeah. And then if we have to achieve that, it has to gradually grow more of enterprise solution as to grow because the growth in service business is almost very negligible.

36:30 And the token business also may grow in 15... Not token business, but service may grow 15 to 20%. So it has to be on the other. The, enterprise solution business will grow more, maybe 20, 20% per year. Yeah. To double the bottom line over the three next three years, how should the investors think about relative contribution from revenue growth versus profitability improvement while achieving this goal? And, additionally, what kind of margins are achievable, and what would be the most critical execution risk? From our current revenue, you put to 1.18 for three year. Then what will be the total revenue will be known? So, similarly, current profitability is 110.

37:20 From there, 1.25, you can put three year. Then based on that, if you divide the thing, then you will get the... What should be the path percentage, which will be... Instead of 16%, it could be 70, 30, or percent or whatever. So that's how one has to look at it. That's helpful. But as you execute the journey, what would be the most important operating metric or KPI that investors should track each year to assess whether the company remains on course to achieve its objective of doubling the bottom line? You know, every year, we publish something called an order book metric, which is primarily meant for enterprise solution. There historically has been a multiple on the order book that the business has achieved in the following year. Right? So this has been true since the time we've started disclosing the metric, I think, just following the IPO, which is in 2022.

38:15 So that is the metric that you can look out for in the annual investor presentation. If there are any further clarifications, we can do a separate one on one call to help you get a better hold of that metric. So... And lastly, as the management pursues its long term growth ambitions, how do you balance the growth profitability and capital efficiency when evaluating strategic decisions? And are there any opportunities, whether in new geographies or products or acquisitions that you would consciously choose not to pursue as they do not meet your long term return threshold or create sufficient shareholder value? No. We don't venture into high risk thing.

39:04 If it is a reasonable valuation and reasonably it can fit into our philosophy, then only we will go with the acquisition. So if you see all our past acquisition, it has been very highly value driven. And then how we are able to take it further and grow the business. So any acquisition, several acquisition come, but several are highly priced, or it may not fit it. It not be management cultural fit, so many things are there. So those things, we do not pursue. So we are extremely cautious on the profitability. That's why if you see from the time of listing, almost we have been able to maintain the profitability, maintain the growth and everything. Thank you so much, sir, for answering me, and all the best for the future.

39:52 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir. The next question comes from the line of mister Sanjot Kari from Vision Finance. Please go ahead, Hello. Good evening. Am I audible? Yes. Yeah. So congratulations on a good set of numbers, and most of my questions are answered. I have a I I know they joined the call late, but I have not heard any update on the case going on with the AI and Cortex. Were there any update there, latest update there on that? No. There is no update. The the police to it, they have complained. They called me for statement on Monday, and they have extensively taken our side of the story and the statement and all the evidences which have... We have.

40:41 So after that, there is no update. So so this will take some time, I mean, to settle down and... This case? No. This is in the hands of the police, so we do not know when they will close or whether they will take further action and all that. But from our side, we have given all the evidences, whatever we have, and they have also taken our statement. Okay. Okay. And related to that, I mean, recently, what what the CI Infotech has announced that a group called Capital MXT has acquired 5% stake in the company. And so is that something related to the group, related to eMudhra? And if it is so, what is the plan? Not related to eMudhra. That is related to my personal investment.

41:35 Okay. It's not related to eMudhra. Okay. Not related to EMUDHRA. My personal illness. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Alright. Thank you very much, and all the best. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any questions, please press star and one on the telephone keypad. We have a follow-up question from mister Karish Gupta from SS Family House. Please go ahead, sir. Hello once again, sir. Oh, sir, another thing I wanted to ask is over the last few years, we have seen a meaningful shift in revenue mix towards enterprise solution.

42:29 However, this has not yet translated into a corresponding improvement in ROE and ROCE. So could you help us understand the key factors behind this? And as these segments become a larger part of the business, how should investors expect a structurally higher return profile? And what would be the management consider a sustainable ROE and ROC over the medium term? You see, ROE, what happens is, generally, when you get more and more profit every year, the reserve also increases. So once the reserve increases, that adds to the equity basis. So that way, if you see over the years, the equity basis also increased.

43:15 So that's where... Currently, last year, what was our ROE? Around 14 and a half... 15%. So that... Ideally, that could be the ROE which we can maintain. And any kind of structural reason why the company should not be able to achieve ROC levels comparable to another... Other leading software and cybersecurity companies? Or this kind of pro return profile is largely part of the company's business model. No. They're a cybersecurity company also. I don't think nobody is achieving more than 25% EBITDA margin or more than 16% tech margin and all that because we have compared.

44:04 Lot of them are less only. Nobody is more. And even foreign companies are several times almost zero margin kind of company, American company. So that way, our profile is much better. The ROC and ROE. And another thing is we... As a strategy, up to now, we are not borrowed much. On the one side, with with a high leverage, if you try to do, then the return on equity can be better. But return on capital employed will not be better even if you borrow, but return on equity can be better if you borrow more. But as a strategy, we do not want to borrow more and then create borrowing burden. Got it, sir. Thank you very much.

44:49 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any questions, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. Next question comes from the line of Mr. Ravi Mehta from one of Financial Consultants. Please go ahead, sir. Yes. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I just had a difficult question. I joined a bit late. So I'm not sure if you called out the service revenue in the call earlier. Service revenue was called out. Service revenue is 19% of the overall quarterly revenue.

45:40 20%. 20%. And are you calling out the margins specifically about the service business? Service margins were not called out, but broadly the same historical Yeah. Margin profile for services. And any color on the Kriptha's revenues? Yeah. Cryptas revenues will be stated. It's 20 crore for the quarter. Okay. And I think we're going to understand that it's also turning around. So it was, I think, within the last year. So how is that transition happening? No. No. That's why we called out the first set of wins by Cryptas using our product into a third party product was what was indicated and explained for one large German data center client as well as one city municipality for eM signers.

46:36 So, hopefully, this acts as a base for future wins with our product and short third party products, and Cryptas can then turn around to becoming profitable. Okay. Thanks. I'll transfer to you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. If If there are no questions, then we can close. There are no further questions, sir. Now may I hand over the floor to the management for closing comments. I would like to thank everyone for joining the call today. We remain focused on delivering consistent performance and innovative solutions that enable secure digital transformation for our clients across the globe. For any additional information or queries, kindly get in touch with us.

47:42 Thank you once again. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using Dulceaba's conference call service. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you, and have a pleasant evening.