Transcript
Automated transcript · Written by software from the replay's audio. It can mishear names and figures; the replay is the record.
0:04 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, depending on where in the world you're signing in from. I saw it was a pretty international audience today, so I particularly appreciate you taking the time to join us. I've got with me today, CEO of Highland Copper, Barry O'Shea, and company's project director, Dr. Reinen Van Dyke. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me today. Thanks, Romeo. Thanks, Romeo. So I'm eager today to go on a deep dive of Highland Copper's Copperwood Project, which is the nature of today's event. Now, here's how today's going to work. I'm going to shoot it over to the gentlemen who are joining me here today for a presentation. I'll be interjecting, hopefully not too much, but at least a couple of times with some of my questions as we go through it. I've then got some questions likely for them following the presentation, but this is an interactive event. I'd be very eager for the folks in the room to ask your own questions during today's event. So there's a chat button on the bottom right of your screen. Please at any time during today's event, click on it and ask any question that you'd like about the Copperwood project. If for whatever reason, we don't get to your question today, ran out of time, something of that nature, Still ask it. I'm gonna make sure that the Highland team gets the transcript afterwards. So they'll be able to respond if there's any particular queries that we don't get to during today's event. I should also say that today's event is being recorded and will be available in your inbox probably early afternoon Eastern time. It'll also be on events.six.com and on Six's YouTube page.
1:18 But enough out of me. I'll let Barry and Dr. Vining get into the protein of today's event. Barry, I'll throw it to you. Thanks, Romain. It's really nice to be here to talk about Highland Copper.
1:30 One of the interesting things about Highland and arguably a knock against us in the past is that Copperwood is a project that has sat at the Feasibility Study level for a period of time. But I think everybody knows that now the US truly needs construction ready assets And that's why we're really stepping things forward here. Romeo mentioned this is a true deep dive into copper. The goal is to really help you understand the incremental steps to take this project from being a feasibility level study project, something of an option on copper price to a truly construction ready project. And to do that, the first thing that you need to do is put the right people in place, people who have had a history, not just in design, but also in construction, development and operations. It brings real credibility to the company, specifically to our capacity to drive this project to a construction decision, and of course, into construction itself. And so with that, I'd like Vinan to introduce himself.
2:27 I was very happy to have brought him into the company in September last year. He's been invaluable in the meantime, really driving the project and setting a path through engineering for a construction decision. Very happy with the history that he has, as I say, across all aspects of development and operations. And with that, could you please introduce yourself? Thank you, Barry. I'm Werner Van Dijk.
2:53 I have the pleasure of being the project director for the Copperwood project. I joined the team, it's now 9 months ago. I'm a chemical engineer by trade. I've been in the mining business for 30 plus years of my life. Most of that time has been spent in developing projects, not just doing studies, actually executing projects, taking it all the way through to construction, several concentrators, a smelter,
3:23 several mines, several tailings dams. So, yeah, with that, Barry, it's, as always, just a pleasure being part of the team. Thanks, Vian. So, you know, given that today the goal is to do a deep dive on Cockroach, you're going to hear a lot more from Vian today, because really it's he who's doing the work, you know, both on the engineering, of course, the site work that we're advancing quickly and particularly the environmental work and of course the metallurgical work that we're doing to improve the project, a whole host of things. But just as a quick refresher, let me walk you through a few slides, just so you remember the overall investment thesis of the project. So Cobb Wood obviously is our 100% owned asset in the upper peninsula of Michigan, an area with a deep history and deep heritage in mining. And we also own 1 third of the White Pine project. It's about an hour down the road to really nicely sequenced projects.
4:15 And with respect to Copperwood, and I do say this, and I think it's factual and true. It is one of the most advanced copper developers in the US, certainly held by a junior. That speaks to having permits in hand, a feasibility study complete, and naturally now getting the site ready, both through work and engineering that we're doing. So really looking forward to driving the region and driving this wonderful producer.
4:46 At a high level, I just wanted to talk about the US, I guess the macro situation in the US. And I think the executive order to increase domestic critical minerals, and specifically copper has been very impactful. It's really brought visibility, I'd say, to the issue around critical minerals broadly. And most specifically, that executive order identified copper as a critical mineral in and of itself. So the need for near-term assets is increasingly
5:18 visible. And I think that really just brings eyes to projects like ours. You'll probably know that it takes 15 to 20 years, certainly has historically in the US to bring a project from first drill result through to construction and production. We're arguably in that 16 or 17 year mark and ready to move.
5:38 And that tells you that we do stand ready. Being in the US location, I think is important, most specifically in the particular region that we operate. I do think it's very important that investors understand our local license to operate. This is the Upper Peninsula. It's an area over the last 150 years that has mined copper for many, many decades. Interestingly, the White Pine project, our second project was one of the last projects in the Western Peninsula to close. Truly welcome back. And of course, doing it sustainably, but of course bringing the economic impact that regions like that love. Permits in hand and a resource scale that I'll show you really is excellent to build a producer around.
6:23 And of course, I think one of our biggest value propositions being our leverage to change the copper price for a 25% increase in copper price from $4 to $5 gives a 300% increase in net asset value. One thing I got, Barry, before you move on, I know you mentioned the last slide, the US really urgently needs that domestic copper supply. I've heard that before. You particularly hear the president say stuff like it all the time. But I'm curious from your perspective, how actually critical is this need? And what role could Copperwood specifically play in addressing that shortage? Well, Thanks for the question. And yeah, this is a slide that we've prepared to help people understand that because it can be a bit of an overture to say that there's a supply demand imbalance.
7:08 And sometimes there are individuals that seem to argue that perhaps there isn't. But this is just a simple view that helps you understand. That helps you understand. You know, there's 1.1 million tons of mine production in the US and you can see on the right hand side, there's 1.6 million tons of consumption. So just that in and of itself is a
7:30 500 ton shortfall. But interestingly, if you also look at smelting capacity, which interestingly is somewhat less than mine production in and of itself, that gap is even greater. So truthfully, the US has 2 things to address. It has mine production to address. And that I think is what the executive order in particular is looking to do. Naturally, it's looking to facilitate permitting, but it's still in a sustainable manner. And it's also looking at ways to fund projects to get them over the hump of what truly is the most challenging piece
8:03 of mining, which is to raise the construction capital. But the imbalance is real. That's a view of it on paper. And what I would say is that, you know, that that's the current view. You know, if you bear in mind then the fact that actually a demand is due to substantially increase while the supply side has been somewhat muted. I think you can begin to understand the situation.
8:25 And of course, Copperwood and White Pine, while it can't naturally resolve that total situation, you know, it's going to be a whole host of projects coming online that really assist in this supply demand imbalance. And so just a couple of other quick slides, just again, setting the overall tone before I pass over to Vinand. A view of the 2 projects, I mentioned Copperwood, it's a multi-billion pound resource, 7.9Bn defined, truly advancing towards construction, permitted an initial 11-year mine life, but you'll see on here that there's an additional 79Mt of inferred that are not included in the mine plan. So we certainly do see this as a 15 to 20-year mine life, producing a nice 30,000t per year. And really well sequenced is the White Pine project. You'll probably know that we sold 2 thirds of that project about 18 months ago.
9:18 And with good reason, we're putting our time, energy and capital into Copperwood and White Pine then is really keeping, keeping White Pine, excuse me, Kintera is keeping White Pine up to speed. It's a bigger project again, 5.4 billion pounds and really driving itself nicely through engineering and permitting alongside our partner.
9:39 And I mentioned leverage to copper price, a last kind of overriding slide here before I pass over to Vinand. You know It really shows you again on paper this optionality of copper price. At $4 copper, it's a nice robust 170M NPV with an 18% IRR, so it works. But you'll know also that we've moved nicely past the $4.50 Copper price range, arguably moving in the direction of $5. You know, in central price that I would say a lot of Copper producers are looking for. And at that price, it's a $507M NPV, so a tripling of value, and really a value that steps well beyond,
10:16 you know, the initial CapEx. Not to mention, of course, we also have potential life of mine addition and other pieces that we can serve to add value there as well. And not to be lost in the mix by any means is our 34% interest in White Pine, which again, just hits 34% interest at a US$5 copper price is also approximately US$500M in net asset value. So acknowledging we're sitting in that US$50M to US$60M market cap range today, there's some incredibly strong asset valuation targets to move to, specifically as we prove that this project can and will be built. And of course, against the macro backdrop in the US, it's getting increased visibility. Sure. Before we throw it to Vinan, I do have one question. So I see, yeah, obviously I think the slide makes it pretty clear that you guys have got great leverage to Copper Prize. But are there any other ways to improve the project internally that could affect the economic strength of Copperwood?
11:13 Yeah, so certainly, you know, life of mine additions are important. There's 54Mt that's in the measured and indicated category. That is the only category that gets utilised when you set up your initial mine life for a feasibility study. Broadly speaking, mining companies like us build out an investment case on a shorter mine life and then add mine life from their inferred category as time goes on. So I think that is arguably the most significant area. But there are other areas that I'd say, top of them is looking at the metallurgical recoveries of the project. And that's an area where Vinant is particularly busy. He's a PhD in extractive metallurgy, so exactly the right person to be looking at that. I won't steal his thunder at this point. I'm going to pass over to him because he's really going to walk you through the things that we're doing to both de-risk and optimize the Copperwood project.
12:02 So, Vinant, over to you. Yeah, thank you, Barry. Appreciate it. Before stepping into just this deep dive in Copperwood, I think it's important just to take some time and just reflect a little bit about responsible project design and what it is. And I think it's fair to say the mining industry as a whole, historically, we don't have an amazing track record. But things have changed, and that's certainly changed over the last decade, with mines more and more proving that they can operate, and they can operate responsibly. And it starts with a responsible project design.
12:48 And for me, the key about this is actually embedding these things into the design right from the word go. You cannot try and bolt your environmental controls on at the end of the project as an afterthought. It has to actually be embedded in the project as you go along. So if you look at Copperwood, you know, it's an underground mine, so it's not open course, so the footprint is relatively small. We have elected not to draw water from Lake Superior. Water that leaves our site is subject to rigorous water treatment. We're enclosing the entire plant. So the entire footprint is as small as we possibly can. And we create these boundaries, almost like a set of boundary conditions within which we want to design and operate this project. At the end it's a risk-based approach.
13:42 There's multiple layers of control that we put in place. So we do have an impact but then we create a wetland preservation area to offset that. And then you, on top of that, have financial insurance in place with the state of Michigan that should something go wrong, even then that can be covered for. In the end, we want to create a positive community impact. We want to create these jobs. We want to be responsible in the way that we operate. But we would have failed if we created jobs and paid all of these taxes and you leave a environmental disaster behind. And it's literally that personal for us. And the starting point to all of this is our permitting process.
14:29 We have, just as a reminder, we operate on private land, and therefore it's all about state permitting for us in this project. And we hold all of our 7 major permits required for the project, which is something that we, you know, this is vital to us. It gives us the opportunity to actually bake all of these specifications, all of these controls, that's part and parcel of our permit, into the detailed design. It's not something that we try and bolt on at the end, whereas afterthought is actually something that we have right there from the word go that we put pen on paper. Excuse me. Yeah. Sorry, if you don't mind, just before we jump forward, I know I'm trying to get into your head a little bit here, so pardon me, but I know different companies look at permitting different ways. Some, you know, describe it as a hurdle to get through, some describe it as a four-letter word, it really depends on the company. I'm curious as to how Highland really thinks about permitting, Like what is the strategy internally for how you're considering this process?
15:35 Yeah, we've heard people saying that, you know, permitting is just a piece of paper. And I think it's important to maybe step back a little bit and understand the Michigan permitting process, if you allow me. Fast permitting is front and center in what we do. In 2005, the elected officials in Michigan passed the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act, Part 632, which in essence created this framework for environmental and state resource protection. And this was developed by a team of stakeholders, including all the agencies, the Native American tribes, a lot of technical experts, and environmental groups.
16:24 And there's 2 key agencies that's key in this permitting process. It's what we call EGLE, the Department of Environmental Great Lakes and Energy, and then also the DNR, the Department of Natural Resources. These agencies have got really big staff of specialized professionals. They are competent individuals, scientists, they're engineers,
16:49 experience far wider than, far deeper than I've got. And their job is taking all of these laws and then transfer it, translate it into, let's call it a set of rules that you have to comply with, which is actually expressed as a permit. And that permit is actually a contract between us and the state. It's like your home mortgage. You can't just walk away from your home mortgage if you decide you're not going to pay it anymore. At the end of the day, the same thing, the permit holder cannot just leave town and we leave our obligations behind.
17:27 Now, obtaining these permits takes a large investment. This is in several cases multiple million dollars of work that goes in in technical reports. So if it was a piece of paper or just a piece of paper, certainly it's an expensive piece of paper. And we have a team of experts in EGLE, they review that, your application. There's an iterative process during that, there's a public participation process where the public actually has time to comment. And to give you an example of that, this not drawing water from Lake Superior, that came out of our public participation process, where
18:09 one of the comments was not to draw it. We've taken that abroad, and it's now built into the DNA of the project that we will not take it. So, yeah, integral part of how we operate. Okay, so moving ahead, just very briefly, A quick recap of last year. Last year was all about setting the stage. We got the team in place. I'm very happy with my site team and my environmental team. Strong engagements with the unions. We've got a letter of intent signed with them. We've started with all of our initial site works to get all of what's called the site impacts basically complete. So if we go into what this year is all about, 2025 for us is focusing on mitigations.
19:03 So where we had the impacts done in 2024, this is now about mitigations. Happy to report the Gypsy Creek Wetland Mitigation Project was constructed and finished in December. That included planting about 5 and a half thousand trees on site. That's that first picture. Also the stream diversion project, all of the major construction work is complete on that. All the stream features, you know, the internal wetland pockets, all of that work is done. And I'm very happy to report that all of that work, which is part of the original capital investment of this project, was done within time and within budget. And we're now moving into, let's call it a maintenance and monitoring phase.
19:50 Looking ahead, bottom photo, construction season is upon us, so we've got the team on site currently. They are planting roughly 15,000 what's called bare rootstock trees and they're seeding all of these wetland pockets in the stream diversions. A little bit later in the year we'll install some timber bridges on site where we take out some existing or old culverts off-site, but part of our stream credits is we're upgrading, we're taking out 5 undersized culverts and replacing it with a bridge at what's called Chote Road over Bluff Creek, and then we're also establishing our 700-odd acre wetland conservation area, which is also off-site.
20:36 So this is super important work for us. It's all about impacts are done, now let's get the mitigation work in place. Further to this, we've also come in through the detail engineering process. So in January, we announced that we've engaged with DRA. They are designing, doing or commencing with the mine design, the portal, as well as the process plant. We're doing this as a very phased disciplined process. So, first phase for all of our engineering partners is a historical data review. So, we literally go back the full history, review all of the technical information that's available for the project.
21:22 And then the idea is that we will finalize or fix the design criteria so that when that is fixed, we can actually go full blown into the front-end engineering process. So,
21:34 happy to report DRA, you know, they've finished their historical data review. No fatal flaws were identified. There's no information gaps that we need, so we don't need expensive drilling programs or things like that. And they've actually commenced some trade-off studies at this point in time to further de-risk and optimize the project. And these trade-off studies from a de-risking perspective is things like,
22:01 is battery electric vehicles available that we could use underground rather than diesel? What's the control system type that we want to use here and the communication backbone that runs through the plant and the underground mining? Do we mine with, you know, continuous miners called road headers or are we going back to conventional jumbo drill and blast? So these are all trade-offs that we're saying, how do we minimize risk in terms of the project? And then there's trade-offs where we're optimising things. So we're looking at how do we minimise comminution energy for argument's sake. The biggest energy draw on any plant and mine is how you break these rocks. And we look at options of getting that as low as we possibly can. How do we bring ore out from underground?
22:51 Do we use conveyors? Do we use trucks? And then very importantly, and I'll talk about that a little bit later on, is how do we incorporate ultra-thorne flirtation into our overall plant flow sheet. The second major piece of work is on the water management side. There we've engaged both in February. Happy to report they've also finished the historical data review. They're progressing now where they're defining what's called the climatic design criteria. And this one is important. Do you design for 1 in 100 years? Do you design for 1 in 1,000 years? What does a maximum storm look like? What about snowfall
23:32 and snowmelt? All of these weather events have got an implication in terms of weather that we need to manage. But not just
23:41 lots of water, also what happens if we have unseasonably low snowfall or unseasonably low rainfall? And they're actually updating our water balances now throughout each stage of the project. So there's a time when we're building it, there's a time when we do pre-development, then we're into operations, then the project turns water positive, then we close it, and then there's monitoring. Each one of those stages, they're looking at the overall water balance and figuring out how do we deal with either shortages or excess water. And then the last piece is the tailings disposal facility. There we've engaged Tetra Tech, so we now have all of our engineering teams on site, or actually busy. They have just commenced the historical data review. Part of this work, very importantly, is reviewing all the geotechnical information. If you build a dam, you really want to know that wherever you build a dam, that that area is stable and it can handle that load, but also importantly that the wall structure, the material that you've got available to build the dam with, it will actually give you a stable wall.
24:50 So they're busy with that review. And with the mine and the water management, the idea would be that once we go through the stage gate and step into front-end engineering, we'll go to a 35 to a 40% engineering. On the tailings dam specifically, the target is that we'll actually drive all the way to 85% engineering. And the reason for that is that we want early engagement
25:15 with EGLE. This dam will be submitted to them, the design to the Dam Safety Department, it gets signed off by EGLE before we actually go into construction of this dam. So, a vital piece of work for us. I want to spend some time just looking at the metallurgical drilling and testing.
25:38 You know, this is arguably one of the biggest opportunities for the project. In January, we engaged Timberline drilling and they put down about almost 2,000 meters of drill holes for us. We drilled PQ size holes, 85 millimeters, and the whole idea was we wanted to extract about 400 kilos of sample.
26:02 We've actually put these drill holes down right next to in 2017 we actually extract 5 metallurgical samples and we put twin drill holes down right next to them and there's some logic in this so that we can actually show the twinning behavior of the whole statistical certainty. But also, it allows us to compare this test work with the 2018 SGS test work. And that's all about just creating certainty that these are not just
26:34 random improvements that you're showing. If you can replicate it and then you improve on it, there's a lot of statistical confidence that come from it. Now, that sample that got extracted, it was sent to Basemet Labs in British Columbia. We engaged them in February. They have subsequently prepared the master composite.
26:56 Happy to share that we're capable of reproducing the 2018 SGS test work benchmark, so very happy with that. And we're now stepping into circuit and reagent optimization. And it's very early days, but we've seen some really encouraging results. And I'm cautiously optimistic that this will be a real value add for the project. The next piece of work after we've optimized the circuit is we'll bolt on the ultra-fine flotation technology. This is another kick that we are after. Here we're looking at dealing with these really fine particles that we have in some of our streams. The whole idea behind that is, you know, rougher kinetics and cleaner kinetics will be done on a bench scale and then we actually go to pilot level test work, both rougher and cleaner.
27:50 And once we've done that, we'll actually look at the fine grinding signature plot and further solid liquid separation testing if needed. So, this entire drive for us here is we want to unlock additional value. This is all about shifting the grade recovery curve, optimizing the reagent suite, and we're pretty sure this could have a substantial impact on the project.
28:14 All right, Lastly, I just want to talk and touch a little bit about just the ongoing community engagement that we've had and the almost overwhelming community support.
28:29 We've got 22 formal resolutions of support from key townships, from the counties, from boards, that's all in the district. It has just literally been overwhelming. Every time I'm up in the Wakefield area, the question that I've been asked most is when are we going to have the mine up and running. We continue to engage with EGLE. We have regular visits with EGLE coming onto site, taking that permit in conditions, and we are adhering to all of our permit conditions that's out there. But more than that, it's just a very
29:15 collaborative working relationship that we've got going with the permitting authorities, and that's great. Furthermore, we've recently seen very strong support from the Upper Peninsula state legislators, from US Congressman Jake Bergman. There's clear support from our key stakeholders, Governor Whitner, from the Michigan Building Trades, from the MEDC, the Economic Development Corporation, and InvestUP.
29:45 And that just for us is at the heart of it all, being welcome in the area. For those of you that want to see a little bit more on that, I'd refer you to the Copperwoodproject.com website. There's a lot of videos and stuff on there that just shows you where we are from a community perspective. Got one quick 1 before you move on, actually. Obviously, it's great to see all this community support from various different locations, but zooming out, What is really the significance of collecting this type of support before going into production? Great question, Romeo. As I said, this is about the license to operate.
30:30 It's truly important for us to be welcome at all levels. We are also seeing the people of the Western UP speaking up, and there's several videos in that regard, on just
30:44 saying, you are welcome to operate in this area. But at the same time, I have to acknowledge there remains some opposition. You know what, we remain open to constructive opposition comments. And we'll keep on listening to those comments as it is. But for us, it's about having that license to operate and being welcome in the area. Appreciate that. All right. So, last slide from my side, I just want to briefly talk about White Pine and where we are and just a reminder White Pine gets managed by Kintera. They are JV partner. A little bit of overview on Kintera. Last year was a real busy year for the project team. They drilled nearly 21,000 meters.
31:37 They collected all their metallurgical and geotechnical samples and they're advancing as we speak towards a resource update. They've done a substantial amount of environmental baselining, and we're really happy with that work that they're doing. They're continuing that work with some really good work in 2025. At the end of the day, it's all about if you have your resource update and you've got all… you can then start looking at permitting and permit submissions. And then lastly, they're stepping into some engineering trade-offs as well, looking at mine plan and metallurgical and how do we optimize the recovery? Because all of this is about stepping into PFS. So where Copperwood is driving towards a construction decision, White Pine is driving towards permitting and pre-feasibility, and it's just naturally giving us a nice sequential growth in as we progress along this pathway.
32:38 With that, I hand over back to Barry.
32:42 Thanks, Vinant. Really appreciate all the detail. And I hope viewers who are taking part today do get a good sense that we're trying to demonstrate for you these really additional strong and tangible steps that we're taking to move the project forward. We're at a really interesting point in time here.
32:59 As I mentioned, the US desperately in need of construction ready assets, and we're taking the steps to make copperwood exactly that. And to support that, you know, we're just showing some catalysts that helps, you know, from stakeholders to investors really track as we go through this. And Q3, I think is going to be very interesting, obviously completing our phase 1 engineering and getting the results in around that and looking at stepping through into our phase 2 of the engineering program. Probably of most significance, of course, is the ultra-fine flotation
33:32 testing. It's nice that as we progressed and acknowledging again, it is early stages, but the results are encouraging. When you think about the things that can impact a project, of course, copper price is arguably at the top of the list, but when you get into impacting your grade recovery curve, I think that is arguably the second most impact or naturally important to see some of those improvements. Because of course, we will also see some headwinds as we progress the project from an engineering perspective. You know, in the second half of this year, we're looking to get visibility to the state grant. It's a $50 million grant that the NEDC proposed just over a year ago. I acknowledge it as I have in the past. We've had some challenges getting it through the final step at the Senate Appropriations Committee. But I do think there's, you know, there's some relevance to this positive support that we're seeing both from the Michigan legislature, federal congressmen, and broadly across the board. And I'd say most specifically down to the local voices in the Western UP.
34:31 They're all very supportive of this grant and certainly hope that all of that support continues to be a catalyst as we drive that project, as we drive that grant to completion. I'd say of other important relevance thinking about key catalysts is that we've really kicked off a process to better understand our federal funding opportunities. I think that this executive order to increase domestic mineral production in the US is quite a game changer for projects of our nature. Certainly other projects of a similar status have seen some real boosts in terms of funding from the DOE, DOD and the US Ex-Im Bank. So that is an area that we are putting some time, energy and capital into working alongside some firms in DC to really understand what's available for us, think about how we get on priority lists, think about how we look at funding from a US federal perspective as well, and really look forward to that.
35:25 All of this then, both from a funding perspective, an engineering perspective, and a site readiness perspective, at the end of the day, drives through to a construction decision and funding financing. Naturally, you know, you are needing to make the project as strong as you possibly can, in all the ways that we are to support yourself through diligence and project financing. And as we get through the tail end of this year, certainly into early next year, we think we're going to be very well positioned. Do also think that the copper price is going to cooperate along that period of time. We're seeing a bit of easing in terms of trade wars, you know, obviously, ongoing visibility to the need of copper in the US and of course globally. So feeling very well positioned there. And at White Pine, you know, as I say, we, you know, while we're putting all of our time and energy into copper, we're very pleased that our partner, Kintera, who are strong, both from a technical and financial perspective, are driving at speed on White Pine. And we'll look forward to let our one-third stake continue to increase in value as they drive that.
36:30 And just a last slide here before Romeo will happily pass back over to you for some questions, be it that you have or that investors online have. But just a refresher on the bigger picture here, you know, this is really a regional play. I'll remind you there is one other operating line on the Upper Peninsula on the Eastern side. It's the Eagle Project. It's owned by Lundin. It's a copper nickel project. You know, we're actually very thankful to them. They came back into the region probably 10 years ago, maybe even a little more than that, you know, with some skepticism as well in terms of how they would operate, but they've done everything right. And they've operated responsibly from a community and from an environmental perspective, really set a stage. They've demonstrated that the Michigan regulation is strong. And if you adhere to it, of course, you can bring boosts to the economy, you can supplement tourism and it doesn't have to be at the expense of environmental control.
37:24 So we're very pleased to see that. So as we look at this western side of the UP, you know, this east-west copper belt that had, you know, multiple mines over the past hundred years, It's really a region that when done well, really can bring back that economic boost to the region, bring copper that is needed in the US and Arguably from our perspective, supplement tourism certainly not hurt it. So real opportunity from that perspective, developing a producer, thinking about moving out of what you will obviously ignore the Explorer developer, you know, price to net asset value discounts into a cash flowing producer, obviously
38:03 leveraged changes in copper price and a real alignment at the critical mineral strategy in the US. So just demonstrating that we're in the right place at the right time here. Looking very forward to kind of progressing this bigger picture and really at the end of the day, surfacing some of the value that we know to be there. This is a multi-billion pound permitted copper project that simply shouldn't be valued arguably as modestly as it is from our market cap perspective. Absolutely look forward to it. And with that, Romeo, yeah, happy to hear the, if you have any questions, happy to, you know, look at the themes obviously of the company, but also very detailed questions from an engineering perspective, having Vine in here also. Great, well, in that vein, I got some for both of you actually. So I got some of my own, but then I do want to get into the great questions from the chat and then some that came in over email as well. 1, Dr. Viner, I'll actually start with you if you don't mind.
38:57 I know you mentioned water management during your presentation, but I wanted to get into it a bit more just to get a better understanding of how Highland is thinking about it. I know sometimes water management can really become the focus of opposition efforts to a project, and what I'm really curious is how are you thinking of managing water at the project site throughout the course of the mine life. Yeah, it's more than just thinking about it. We're actually doing it, Romeo, because we're already impacting. We built those streams and we built those wetlands. At this point in time, it's all about sediment control, which is really important for us. But from a big picture, if we step out of the detail, it starts with where do you get your water from and then what do you do with your water in very simplistic terms. It's important to realize that things are never static and there's always probabilities in terms of what's the probability of a storm event, what's the probability of drought.
40:02 So this all starts with an overall model, and it's a stochastic model, so that you look across the entire site, and you look across that entire site over time. So what happens today is different than it will be when we start putting yellow metal in the ground and we start touching the ore body, and it will be different when we actually start to go underground, and it goes different again when the plant starts operating. So you have to understand that and literally think through every single scenario because it cannot be a surprise. If it's a surprise, then it's too late. You've got to be ready to react ahead of time. In big picture, collect and store all the water up front so that we, because we're not drawing from Lake Superior, we have got water to start this project.
40:58 The initial indications are from these models are that there will be a period that the project is water negative so we need to use water and that will be actually from water, contact water that that's in contact in site not releasing it from site storing it all and reusing all of that water. At a point in time, the project becomes water positive, and then under those circumstances, now you've got to release water from the site. We'll actually have a water treatment site, a water treatment plant, that will be able to release water that is as per every single condition that's in the permit. And that is, whether it's heavy metals or any sort of pollutants, all of those are specified to concentration levels that you've got ahead. And this is a high-tech water plant, reverse osmosis water plant that you then put into, actually have clean water leaving the site.
41:58 Great. I do have one follow-up question to that, actually. I've read opposition materials to mining projects fairly frequently and I know I've heard the expression that all sulfide mines pollute water sources, kind of accepted as a maxim sometimes. And I'm curious, 1, is that true? And 2, if it isn't, what makes Copperwood different? Yeah, look, there is unfortunately quite a lot of data on sulfide mines, polluting water sources. And it's actually linked to what's called acid rock drainage. Historically, it's called acid mine drainage. Nowadays, we actually call it acid rock drainage. And it's very important, that distinction, because it's literally about what is the constituent of the rock that can create this acid, sulfuric acid that gets created.
42:52 And at the heart of it is you start picking up problems if you have chalcopyrite and pyrite. So if there's iron present, then that creates the ability when you're in contact with water, then you create the sulfuric acid and have the problems. Our mineral is chalcocite. You can look at the fundamental chemistry, you physically cannot produce that sulfuric acid in that reaction. Well, we didn't just rely on the fundamental chemistry, we actually did extensive due chemical testing. Every single test that gets prescribed, we actually went through and proven that this ore cannot generate acid, it's non-acid generating.
43:46 We're actually in a fortunate position that, as I say, the proof is in the pudding. In the 1950s, there was actually a test shaft dug on site. That material that got extracted out of that shaft was left on surface, about a 2 acre area that's got this material. It's been exposed to rain, sun, wind, the elements. It's an unlined area. And there was a quite an extensive piece of work done by Michigan Tech where they've published a peer review paper taking samples of water below this rock bar. So this is after 50 odd years of having all of this exposure, they found no evidence of acid mine drainage. As a matter of fact, interestingly, it's actually acid neutralizing, which chemically that's what it will be, and it's actually neutralizing some of the precipitation.
44:42 But here's the overabundance. I can rely on that, I can say that's good enough. We spoke about responsible project design and risk management approach, layer upon layer of controls. So every single place where we have contact water, we actually have a double lining system. There's a clay lining system and then it's the HDP lining system containing all of that. So even though we know we cannot generate it, we're still containing all of our water and making sure that it cannot leave the site and actually treat it. So yeah, we're pretty sure that what we've got in place is abundance of controls so that we don't impact this area. Great.
45:28 I've got a couple more for you. 1, obviously you sound really optimistic about the ultrafine flotation technology. I'm curious, just for my ongoing education as much as the people in the room, I'd be curious if you could elaborate on the technology and why you're so optimistic about its application here at Copperwood. Yeah, look, The optimum size range for flotation, there's various meanings, but I would typically say 35 to 45 microns up to, let's call it 100 microns. Somewhere in that space is where flotation works really well. If you go above 100 micron, let's call it below 35 microns, you have this drop off in performance. So that's driven the industry to almost 2 legs. There's this one side looking at coarse particle flotation, because if we can recover coarse particles, we don't have to pay the energy of milling it that fine. But there's also another side which looks specifically at ultra-fine flotation.
46:28 The truth is ore bodies are becoming more and more difficult. They're becoming more finer disseminated. If you take copper, what our liberation size is around about the 40-odd microns. So we have to mill fine. And when you're that fine, then it's all about getting, how do you get the particle onto the bubble? And then how do I get selectivity. And that's where this ultrafine flotation technology is coming to the fore. For us, we are going down this pathway. There's a clear track record of these units, 400 plus of them have been installed worldwide, more than 150 in copper flotation, in ultra-fine copper flotation, and with a large degree of success.
47:14 That's why I'm very optimistic about it, but let's wait for the results at the end of the day before I hang my jacket on this one or my coat on this one. No, appreciate it very much. Barry, I've got a couple for you. I'd love to get you in here. I've got 2 on Copperwood and then 1 really briefly on white pine. Then there's some questions from the audience I want to jump into. The first is, and obviously answer is just to the best of your ability, but with the current, we'll call it geopolitical and domestic political situation, have you seen increased interest from potential strategic partners, particularly those looking for that domestic Copper supply? In short, I would say the answer is yes. There's been an underinvestment, I'd say for decades now, in mining broadly. I do think that is due to change.
48:00 But when you look at obviously the exploration and development area of the mining cycle, there's been underinvestment in juniors, certainly. That has a knock-on impact on the ability for intermediates and seniors to buy into ready-set exploration or development assets and progress them. And even at the intermediate and senior level, they haven't quite made a jump on their projects also. And in part, I think because, you know, mining investors, be it strategic or just be it retail institutional investors, are needing to see a little more meat behind the cycle, not just initiating, but really well and truly taking hold. And I think that's happening now.
48:47 Copper, once again, I think it saw a nice floor at about $4 over the last year. It seems as though we're seeing $4.50 at this point. The copper story is getting increased visibility. And as I mentioned, just from a trade perspective, globally, things are easing somewhat. So I'm hopeful that that copper price continues to hold up. What that means is you're going to start seeing investment again, into all areas there. But specifically, I think, you know, those intermediates and seniors that haven't had the capacity to develop their own projects or arguably don't have those projects in the pipeline begin to look downward. And I truthfully think the first thing they look for are construction ready permitted assets in the US. So yeah, that would suffice to say that we are seeing some attention there. And the thing that we can do best to either solicit that ongoing attention or drive the project in and of ourselves is just to engineer, do our site work, keep our permits in good hand, do the metallurgical work to improve the project, truly make it construction ready.
49:48 Great, no, appreciate that. I got a couple of questions on timelines and this reflects some of the questions that came in over email and some of the stuff in the chat as well. What are potential timelines you're looking at right now as you think about both funding but also that construction decision at Copperwood? Sure, Well, in fairness, I think the best thing for an investor to look back to is that is that catalyst list. So we've laid out really nicely the steps that we think that we need to take to prepare ourselves for a project financing. And as you'll know, a project financing sits in advance of a full and final construction decision, you need to have the capital at that point. But our goal is to do all of those things, right? So I think we've laid out in Q3 a transition from phase 1 to phase 2 engineering, obviously, ideally building in any positive results from a network standpoint.
50:35 Through the second half of this year, considering state and federal funding, seeing if there can be finalized or available to us, thinking about that from a project financing perspective. And then at a point as you approach the end of your phase 2 engineering, and that's later this year into early next year, you have full visibility to your project, you have capacity to defend your project and your technical due diligence, and you begin to parallel the path of your, you know, your debt and equity raise through it into early and mid next year. All of those pieces kind of would tell us that if things progress as we would hope and expect, and of course, the macro environment stays intact, that we'd be looking to make a construction decision in 2026. We will look at that point in time as to whether or not we have the construction window in a timely manner to initiate construction in early 2026, or if that would step into an early 2027 timeline.
51:31 Under any circumstance, it's extremely near dated. Perfect. No, appreciate that. 1 really last quick 1 before I jump into chat questions, just on White Pine, this is a Copperwood event, but I'm just curious. Looking back, is it progressing as you anticipated, Barry, the White Pine transaction with Kintera? Yeah, I do think it is. You know, Kintera, like I mentioned, they bring a technical strength and we've seen that in-house and of course in terms of consultants that they use. And of course they bring financial strength to drive a project of that nature. So from a corporate development perspective, we've been very comfortable. I will mention also, you know, similar to us, obviously, I've put Vine in place, they put a strong project director in place, very strong environmental and permitting director in place. And to see those people kind of, you know, in place and on the ground that tells you if the project is going to move forward or not. So they'll feel very comfortable there. Awesome. I appreciate that. A couple of quick questions. Hopefully we'll have pretty brief answers to them. Jeff Fitkin from the chat asks, what species of trees were planted for the wetland creation project? Dr. Bynum, I guess that's to you.
52:33 Oh, man, I wish I could pronounce some of these biological names, but look, we have pre-approved planting lists that's part of the permit conditions. So in the wetlands is American loess, there's black spruce, musselwood, red maple, trying to think, yellow birch. So these are all trees that's in the area. Also, you know, white pine, ironwood, hemlock, paper birch, and then there's also live steaks that go in, which is a different speciation set. So, you know, all of these are done in conjunction with, let's call it, what do they call them, plant biologists, people that fall more competent in that regard than I am. I just get the list and get somebody to execute accordingly.
53:29 No, it makes sense. One question is, somebody's curious who's conducting the studies on risk reduction, tailings dam, etc. Yeah, apologies, it didn't come across clearly. DRA is doing mine process plant, so everything underground and surface, mine-wise. The water has been done by Foth F-O-T-H and then the tailings dam is done by Tetra Tech. So 3 different engineering companies looking at all of this work. Perfect, appreciate it. Todd from the chat asks, do you have any geological information for the mining area that you can share? He offers examples of rock density, CIA rating, etc. Yeah, it's obviously available, but I've got to go and have to dig that out.
54:16 Yeah, I would refer people to our technical report. Most of the geological information is in there. It sits in the Nonesuch formation. But rock strength and rock density, I don't have offhand. I apologize for that. Perfect. Todd, I'll make sure that your question gets to the team that can get back to you with a few more details if you're interested. One question, actually, there's a couple of questions I'll lump together about the Michigan Senate process. Really, I think there's just people looking for a bit of clarification. Somebody notes they thought the grant expired at the end of last year and then some people are just looking for general updates. So Barry, I'll throw it to you to just give some clarification on that. Yeah, so and I think there might have been some press conflicting, I'd say stories around that. No, the grant is absolutely not expired. It sits where it was. Went through the NEDC, the Michigan Strategic Fund, and the House Appropriations Committee in 2024.
55:13 It has taken time. There was some confusion because there was a thought that maybe it would expire at the end of December 31st. But that was not the case. It's not a legislative order. So it carries into this year. So, yeah, we remain firmly in contact, honestly, with the Senate Appropriations Committee. They've had other issues, I'd say, to kind of get through through this year, but I think it's going to come back into focus in the coming period. And, you know, we just feel, we feel very comfortable when we speak about this project. We speak about the environmental controls that are in place. I do know as well that EGLE and the DNR provide feedback as well to the Senate to reflect that we continue to meet all of our obligations. It's interesting that this year, we're spending money fully on environmental mitigations that not quite yet built in the project, but that's going to happen in the relatively near term.
56:08 So, we'll continue to move on that, feel very comfortable with it. I don't want to make any projections about our likelihood of success, because of course it has taken some time. But, you know, from my perspective, it's really important actually to the state of Michigan that they do reconcile this, you know, for the economic success of this region in particular. It's going to be important, if not imperative, that mining works well alongside tourism and environmental controls. Great, I appreciate that. Shy from the chat asks, what's the latest status of the White Pine Silver Stream? Yeah, so yeah, you might know, and I think Shea understands that as well, that there is a stream for the silver. Actually, on both projects, it's more impactful on Litecoin where there's a higher proportion of silver content.
57:01 That stream is an option that Osisko can take, which they have partly executed at this point. There's no full answer on that. And to be candid, I also don't want to speak on Kintera as the hasher. I mean, as I understand it, it remains very important to them to restructure that stream. It's a challenging one to have in place in its current structure if you want to think about making a full construction decision. So, you know, it's still reasonably early days as they as Kintera progress through baselining and of course preparing for feasibility study but I know it remains a very important thing for them to resolve in time. Awesome. There's one question from the chat that's looking for some napkin math for me, Barry, so I'll throw it to you. But what's the ballpark of the IRR lift from ultra fine flotation or from federal assistance? They want to know if we're talking 150 or 450 BPS cumulatively each.
58:00 So let's start. So, again, it depends on the quantum naturally. I mean, we have seen on the federal side, you know, there's been some pretty meaningful grants put into companies. You know, arguably, one of the main areas that would be available to us would be the US Ex-Im banks. So that would be more on the debt side. And interestingly, the Department of Energy has also opened its loan program to mining companies. So, you know, it would depend on the scale of that, be it grant or debt that we put in, it would be dependent on the terms of that grant relative to what we might get otherwise in the commercial market. So I'm gonna hold off from doing that kind of math other than to say naturally it would de-risk, improve the economics of the project and really take away one of those larger risks around funding generally, certainly for a company of our scale.
58:55 I'm going to be, unfortunately, a little more cagey even so on the network side. It's early stage, right, So I don't want to give any indications there, but I think we've reflected that into Q3, certainly. We're gonna start to get visibility around these things and we're certainly going to do our best to quantify these things. But from a grant perspective and a network perspective, I can say that the opportunities are certainly meaningful. Awesome. And I know we're right against the edge of the hour. So did wanna just thank you both, Barry and Dr. Viner, for joining us today for a deep dive. I always love these hours because I think you really get into the guts of the project. So I appreciate it. And everybody who joined for questions. Barry, I'll throw it back to you for a kind of last word as we summarize today. And then we'll let everybody go for the afternoon.
59:41 I just say that I hope today has been useful. And we're going to do our best over the coming period of time to continue to take these more deep dives, step away from the big themes of the company and really step into the detailed work that you're doing. I did ask Vinan to take on a good portion of this call today and with good reason. I want investors to understand his credibility and the credibility that he has to the project because at the end of the day, the viability of the project to step towards not just a construction decision, but full construction and towards cashflow, is off the back of the engineering that we're doing with very reputable firms and of course, Zion's experience. So trusting and hopeful that you'll see the sincerity from our management team side to progress this project, 1 that's been sitting at feasibility study for a period of time, but really is in the right place now to move forward.
1:00:33 And we think that, you know, the macro backdrop in the US is just facilitating the overall story. We look forward to progressing and look forward to getting an update again in the near future. Awesome. Barry, Dr. Viner, thank you so much. I hope everybody has a wonderful afternoon. I'll echo the thanks in the chat from Kalinda, Peter, Holly, and others. This is a great hour. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks, Ramir.