Blackbird (LSE:BIRD) — Annual General Meeting

0:01 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the BLACKBIRD PLC Annual General Meeting. Throughout this recorded meeting, attendees online will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged. They can be submitted at any time via the Q and A tab that's just situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Please just simply type in your questions and press send. I would now like to hand you over to the Board of BLACKBIRD PLC. Anne, good afternoon. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, everybody. It is now 2PM, ladies and gentlemen. And as the quorum required by the company's articles of association is now present, I would like to welcome you to Blackbird's twenty twenty five AGM. May I begin by introducing myself and the other members of the board? I am Anna Kirkhoff, Chair of the company Ian McDonagh, CEO Steve White, chief operating officer and chief financial officer Steven Streeter, research and development director.

0:48 And we're also joined by Samit Rai, our chief product officer, who's gonna help us talk a bit about more about the product. May I also introduce our company secretary, Martin Kay, Jeremy Reed, representing our auditors, Moore Kingston Smith LLP and Nick Taylor, Pierre Shingwell and Amrit Nachal representing our Nomad brokers, L and B Capital. Now before proceeding with the formal part of the AGM, I would like to take an opportunity to comment on the company's progress since we last met as announced at the market earlier this morning. The past year was a significant year for both Blackbird and elevate.io. In 2024, for the first time, the BLACKBIRD division delivered a positive EBITDA of 500,000 and positive cash flow. There were a number of key renewals, including multiyear deals with the Global Financial News Organization and FIFA, and annual renewals of the US Department of State and CBS Sports.

1:40 Elevate.io is built incorporating the company's core patented technology, and it has now progressed through its problem solution fit stage with demand being established for its offering and the team gaining valuable insights. Elevate.io's vision is a unique proposition for the video platform. At its core, it's an online video editor with real time collaboration and integrated digital asset management. With an intuitive, accessible user interface, the platform design also envisions integrating third party AI in a marketplace. Users also benefit from the company's key technological advantages, which deliver responsiveness, smoothness of both navigation, playback, and proven reliability. Elevate.io is aimed at the creator economy and corporate markets with an estimated initial serviceable addressable market of 6,900,000,000.

2:32 Less than a year after general lease, elevate.io paid creator plan was launched on eleventh the 02/11/2025. Features and functionality such as vertical video, comments, looks, and four k publishing continue to be added frequently, increasing the capabilities of the product and opening its addressable market. During elevate.io's current product market fit phase, the company will continue to look at different marketing channels appropriate to the product's progression. The team will take disciplined data driven approach to marketing spend to ensure an effective return on investment. To date, spend has been kept at modest levels with the vast majority on paid search in The US market only. However, there have been a number of valuable learnings including one in two users who visit the elevate.io website for the first time now sign up as a verified user.

3:23 And the cost of acquisition of paid users, a CAC, has been brought down by 55% between February and May this year. These improvements have been accomplished through product and website upgrades as well as benefiting from advanced marketing. We aim to continue to improve our effectiveness in converting users to paid users. With rapid improvement in product and marketing, steadily reducing CAC, we have adopted a disciplined approach to marketing to ensure that we have a cost effective outcome. The product is designed to encourage usage via an increasingly feature rich set of of of of features that will aid customer retention. There's real time collaboration, which will include encourage new introductions to elevate.io.

4:09 An additional feature during the behind the paywall will encourage conversion to paid user status. The company has an ambitious vision for elevate.io to be the stigma for video editing. As we have seen from parallel industries that have moved online and offer convenient seamless experience, the rewards can be huge. Elevate.io has come a long way in a short period of time, now has paying customers and continues to add features and functionality at pace. We will continue to take a data driven approach to marketing, opening up new additional channels and markets at the appropriate time. It's a very exciting time for the company as it leans into our technology technological advantages and benefits and with the talented team that we have in place.

4:54 On behalf of the board, I would like to thank you for your support. Further to the company's announcement on the 04/24/2025, following the conclusion of the AGM, I will step down from the board of the company. And whilst the company is actively seeking a replacement, Ian McDonough will assume the role of interim executive chair. We will now turn to the formal business of the AGM. The circular to shareholders including notes of AGM together with a copy of the company's 2024 reports and accounts was published on the 05/14/2025. And accordingly, notice of the age of m has been duly given in accordance with the statutory requirements and the company's articles of association. The reports and accounts together with the notice of AGM are available on the company website. With your permission, I will take the notice as read.

5:42 Resolution one. The first resolution is to receive the reports and accounts of the company for its year ending 12/31/2024. The reports of the directors and the auditors are set out on page 14 to twenty one and twenty four to 28 of the accounts. With your permission, I will take these reports as read. Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose the resolution is put to the meeting, and I call upon you by show of hands to indicate first those in support of the resolution and those against. I I now declare the dash the resolution carried unanimously. I would mention that over 99.9% of the proxy votes have been logged in with the company in respect to this resolution totaling 101,000,639 and 384 votes, including chairman and third party discretionary votes. We're in favor of the resolution and 82,209 were against.

6:44 Resolution two, the second resolution is to approve the remuneration report and directed remuneration and benefits for the year ended 12/31/2024. Details of such are disclosed on Page twenty two and twenty three of the 24, financial statements and at note three on page 41. It is worth noting that this resolution is being put to an advisory vote in line with the recommendations of the QCA Corporate Governance Code 2023 and in accordance with the provisions of the Companies Act 2026 '20 2006. The director's entitlement of such remuneration benefits is not conditional on the resolution being passed. Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose that the resolution is put to the meeting. May I call upon you by a show of hands to indicate first those in support of the resolution and those against.

7:39 I now declare the resolution carried. I would mention that over 98.9% of the proxy votes have been logged with the company in respect of this resolution totaling one hundred and five million eight hundred and sixty five and three hundred and seventy five votes, including chairman and third party discretionary votes. We're in favor of the resolution and a million eighty six two hundred nineteen were against. Resolution three, the third resolution is to reappoint more Kingston Smith LLP as the company's auditors and to authorize the directors to fix their remuneration. Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose that the resolution is put to the meeting. May I call upon you by a show of hands to indicate first those in support of the resolution and those against.

8:27 I now declare the resolution carried. I would mention that over 99.9% of the proxy votes have been logged with the company in respect of this resolution, totaling a 106,749,269 votes, including chairman and third party discretionary votes were in favor of the resolution and 68,324 were against. We'll now move to resolution four. The fourth resolution is for the reappointment of Vin McDonough as director, who's standing for annual reelection accordance with good governance, corporate governance practice and the recommendations of the GCA corporate governance code twenty twenty three. Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose that the resolution is put to the meeting. May I call upon you by a show of hands to indicate first those in support of the resolution and those against.

9:19 I now declare the resolution carried. I would mention that over 99.3% of the proxy votes have been logged with the company in respect of this resolution totaling a 106,157,008 780 votes, including chair and third party. Discretionary votes were in favor of the resolution, and 715,150 were against. Resolution five. The fifth resolution is for reappointment of Stephen White as a director who is standing for annual reelection in accordance with good governance corporate governance practice and the recommendations of the QCA corporate governance code twenty twenty three. Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose that the resolution is put to the meeting. Might call upon you by a show of hands to indicate first those in support of the resolution and those against.

10:10 I now declare the resolution carried. I would mention that over 99.2 of the proxy votes have been logged with the company in respect of this resolution, totaling a 106,117,780 votes, including chairman and third party discretionary votes were in favor of the resolution and 755,150 were against. Resolution six, the six resolutions to reappoint Stephen Streeter as director, who is standing for annual reelection in accordance with good governance, corporate governance practice and the recommendation recommendations of the QCA Corporate Governance Code twenty twenty three. Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose that the resolution is put to the meeting. And I call upon you by show of hands to indicate first those in support of the resolution.

10:59 And those against? Thank you. I now declare the resolution carried. I've mentioned that 99.7% of the proxy votes have been logged by the company in respect of this resolution, totaling a 106,567,780 votes, including chairman and third party discretionary votes were in favor of the resolution, and 305,150 were against. Resolution seven, the seventh resolution proposes the election of Yuri Asano as a director who was appointed as a director by the board with effect from 08/15/2024 and is standing for reappointment by shareholders. Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose that the resolution is put to the meeting. May I call upon you by a show of hands to indicate first those in support of the resolution?

11:46 Thank you. And those against? I now declare the resolution carried. I've mentioned that over 99.3% of the proxy votes have been logged with the company in respect to this resolution, totaling a 106,154,427 votes were in favor of the resolution and 718,503 were against. Resolution eight, the eighth resolution proposes the election of Nick Lisher as a director who was appointed as a director by the board with effect from 12/16/2024 and is standing for reappointment by shareholders. Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose that the resolution is put to the meeting. May I call upon you by a show of hands to indicate first those support in support of the resolution. Thank you. And those against?

12:34 I now declare the resolution carried. I would mention that over 99.7% of the proxy votes have been lodged by the company in respect of this resolution, totaling a 106,564,427 votes were in favor of the resolution and 308,503 were against. Resolution nine, the ninth resolution is to renew the authority of the directors to issue shares set at a limit equal to one quarter of the issued share capital of the company at the date of the notice. I should make it clear that say for the grant of options under the company's share option scheme and allotment of shares pursuant to outstanding share options and to satisfy vested awards under the company's long term incentive plan, the directors have no current plans to issue further shares pursuant to this authority if renewed.

13:21 Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose that the resolution is put to the meeting. May I call upon you by a show of hands to indicate first those in support of the resolution and those against? I now declare the resolution carried, and I would mention that over 99.1% of the proxy votes have been lodged with the company in respect of this resolution, totaling a hundred and six million one forty four thousand two hundred and eighty six votes, including chairman and third party discretionary votes were in favor of the resolution, and 907,308 were against. Resolution 10. The tenth resolution is to renew the authority of the directors to issue shares for cash in certain limited circumstance without first offering those shares to existing shareholders.

14:13 Before the resolution is proposed, I invite any questions. I now propose that the resolution is put to the meeting as a special resolution. May I call upon you by a show of hands to indicate first those in support of the resolution and those against. I now declare the resolution carried as a special resolution. I would mention that over 98.9% of the proxy votes that have been logged with the company in respect of this resolution totaling a hundred and five million five hundred and seventy six eight hundred and eighty four votes were in favor of the resolution and 1,075,404 were against. That concludes the formal voting on the resolutions for approval of the AGM. And if any vote lost on the show of hand oh, we can move on to that as we haven't.

15:02 So thank you all for your attendance. I will now ask Ian and the management team to give you an update on the business and we will open then the floor to questions. I just want to ask question relations to the share of it. I don't know what the time we're going to do that. I just want to ask one question. I mean, don't understand it. Why in the case of Steven, it was 99.7%. I was thought that he should be a 100% if he's the founding member of the company. And I'm just wondering why why there were people voting against. Any ideas? No. Well, it was us. That's what you're asking, Richard. Yeah. And the second question, I wanted relating to you, Anna. I just wanted to know why you've decided to leave the company after giving quite a bullish statement today.

15:54 And, you know, if you think this this company's got a a a tremendous future, why have you decided to go? It's, unfortunately due to the point system in The UK in terms of public company boards. There's a set limit of points that one is allowed to have, and therefore had to leave the formal board. I'm remaining as an investor, as an adviser, but stepping down from the formal position of chair because of Is this because you you had to decide which companies you were going to be involved in? And then if we could this company's got such a great sort of future story, why you had to give up this one as opposed to some of your other interests?

16:33 It's it's a very personal question about how I wanna choose this ex portfolio. But what I what I would say is exactly exactly what what I I told told Ian and the whole team, which is I'm not going anywhere, and I'm staying here as an investor and as adviser. And I feel I can do that whether it's as a chairperson or as a simple adviser. For me, it's not about titles. It's about what you bring to the company and how you work with it. Well, we look forward to seeing you next year. It will be my pleasure. Great. Okay. We're not gonna do a a massive PowerPoint deck today, guys. We're just gonna do a couple of slides just to give you a bit of context and reference about where we are in the process and what comes next. And then we're gonna see a demo from from Summit and and, obviously, the collaborative nature of the platform as well from from Kat involving Kat. And then we'll open the floor to questions because I know you're dying to ask. I've got a lot of questions, so we'll leave a lot of time for that.

17:22 So first slide, please, Sun. So obviously, Blackbird's been around some time, and that gave Elevate a huge head start, a huge leg up in terms of making sure we had an advanced technology going into the platform before we kicked off. Nevertheless, Elevate is still a start up product, and it's a start up within a within an organization, that's been around a while. So we need to kinda make sure that we are we we understand and we explain to you where we are in the phases of a start up product as it's as it's rolling out. And the good news is we've gone through two of the phases already, and we're in the really in in more interesting bit of the phases, if you like, the more, more exciting bit of the phases. Exploration was certainly something we did when Summit first joined us in 2022. Reminder, we raised money for what is now Elevate, in 2021.

18:11 My slides are just open open.

18:18 We're we're on the last slide. Yeah. We raised money in 2021 for for for what is now known as as Elevate, and we did a lot of exploration in that in that year. What we then did went into when we in early twenty late twenty three, early twenty four was we we pushed out the product into the market as a as a completely free product, and that really was establishing that we had a problem that were the problem in the market that we could solve. There was a problem there that we could And we believe that we passed out with flying colors. And the reason that we've we believe that is that the response to the free product was been extraordinary. And since we we started advertising this product in September 2024, we've had tens of thousands of people come on and and and and use the product as as we've explained before. And that is a testament to the fact there is a problem to be solved, and we we have a a a solution to that problem.

19:15 What's more on in terms of that, we also have a website out now that's been developed and improved week on week. And more than one in two people that come to that website for the first time are becoming a verified user, meaning that we have their email addresses, that we verify that email address, and that they become a user. So it would just show that that there's a test the testament to the fact there's a demand in the market for the for the solution that we've brought. We're now in the, problems with the product solution fit phase, which is is basically where where we are product market fit phase, where we are looking at the product week in, week out and improving it week in, week out so that it really fits the the the market that we're going into. And with every new feature that comes on board, every new piece of functionality that comes on board, there is an additional, available market to us, additional available, cadre of a cohort of people that will be able to use the product and can use the product and do use the product.

20:08 So that is the phase we're in now. We envisage being in this phase of of product market fit until next year, probably until end of first

20:17 quarter, towards mid of next year when we will move into scale up phase. And scale up phase is when we push the gas, really push the gas on marketing, and really scale up the the the the company. Until then, as I answered in the opening statement, there is caution and there is prudence around what we do with marketing because we could be we could be putting a lot a lot more money into marketing, but there's a lot there'll be a lot more wastage if we do that. And we want to make sure that we don't waste money, that we actually get the metrics working in the right way, that the traction is there is completely right before we we we've really pushed the the the the gas in the in the marketing area. So, that maybe answers some question to your have around why haven't you seen marketing or why aren't we going harder into marketing? It's really because we're in that that sort of product market fit phase before scale up. Next slide, please.

21:07 But this is what's gonna happen over the next twelve months. So we are we are gonna start moving deeper into it. So each each and every month, we intend to spend marketing in different areas. Not necessarily more marketing money, but marketing in different areas. At the moment, only one of these or actually one and a half, let's say, of these engines, these seven engines have been switched on. That is the fact we've been using search ads only in The US, because that is the biggest and most nuanced and valuable video market that there is. And we've done a little bit of organic and social community building, but it's it's been it's it hasn't been full powered at this stage, and we are starting to to create more video now around the product. But we have more engines to switch on. We have more marketing engines to switch on. And Cal is here, head of marketing, who I think you remember from last year. He's he's had a fantastic year with us.

21:56 He's he's moving now, into different areas of this of this donut, let's call it, Affiliates and referrals, which is a very, viral way of bringing in in, new new users, new paid users, is coming quite soon. We will be looking at social ads, particularly probably Meta, but other other social platforms as well. We've dipped our toe into media and events. So you've probably seen some, activity that we had at South by Southwest in London recently where we were invited to come and do and do a panel around AI, the AI creator. We've started to have some early influencer marketing conversations. Again, this is something we would we would use with caution and prudence, but we will be using it. It is it is we would just wanna make sure that we have the right product to to put into the hands of those influencers before we we do that. And it that that is, that is coming quite soon.

22:47 And then lastly, partnerships. Now, Anne mentioned Yuri Hasanoff. Yuri joined us late last year, as as a previous director at YouTube and the director at Jelly Smack. There is pretty much no one in the creator economy that Yuri doesn't know that's of a of a of a senior senior, standing. And so we do have the ability or we have the capacity to go and talk to those people, and it could be education platforms. It could be gaming platforms. It could be creative networks where we can rapidly accelerate how Blackbird sorry. How Elevator is is is taken up by the the communities, these entrenched communities of engaged users rapid more rapidly than going one by one. But before we get there, we wanna make sure that our metrics are right, our metrics are in the right place. And, again, that that goes back to the point I was making earlier is that they are improving. We brought the the CAC down by more than half. I mean, that's that's fantastic in three months, but we have bigger ambitions around that.

23:42 We wanna get it down much further. So we will we will continue to to work on that product market fit phase. And when we're ready, we will have these we will turn these engines on one by one or maybe maybe two at once, but we'll be starting to turn them on over the next twelve months. Good. We'll take questions in a minute, but we'll go to Summit now and do the demo. Okay. So as everybody knows, when we set out to build elevate.io, the bar or the level that we set was that it was going to be the first online publicly available editor that was gonna satisfy the professional market because everything that's out there that's available by sign up online isn't capable.

24:31 And we were the company with our existing product was the only one that was actually at the professional level, But, obviously, it was not just freely available on the Internet. It required some infrastructure and some setup. And you look at where we are now, we definitely achieved that status. So if I give you an example of this edit here, which is put together all within elevate.io,

24:58 First of all, you'll notice we get all the smooth, seeking that we obviously get from our, existing technology. But when you play back the video, you get to see a great experience online that you couldn't get from any other editor. I think the volume on the TV is down. I don't know whether there's a TV remote that I think, hopefully, the online users heard it better. Online. Sorry. Online is happening. Yeah. Online are hearing it beautifully, but for some reason, the TVs turned out in the room. And it wasn't earlier when we set it up, so apologies for that. But let me talk through what's going on. So not only are we able to pull together a really complicated edit with, you know, dozens and dozens of clips and be able to seek back and forth within them, but you can also take individual clips.

25:56 Like, we can take that clip there, and we know that that's just slightly too hot, that it is just slightly not quite right. And we can make these kind of levels of adjustment in real time, and the end users obviously get to see that back immediately. The other thing that we've introduced recently is in our processing chain is effects and looks. So when you go to here, you're able to, when I select that clip, automatically get predefined looks that will help users get a head start in their grading journey. Now this isn't always the the the the finished article. They may want to tweak it a little bit there afterwards, but it gives all of the users a really fantastic starting point in their journey and actually pulling something together.

26:36 So we've definitely achieved the main thing, which was, like, can we build an editor that was at the professional end? And we knew it was technically possible because we've done it before in our core business. But actually making that available to tens of thousands of people online who have signed up and have, you know, come forward and and joined us from, you know, over the 100 countries is a huge amount that we have learned from that because in the products, every interaction that any user

27:00 makes, we monitor. So we get lots of telemetrics out of the product. We know what people use. We know how they use it. And the thing that has been really crucial for us is to ensure that that user experience that all of the users are going through is right because that's how creative software works. Creative as in software used to make creative things. It's not just about the number of features. It's about how you do it. That's what makes all the difference. When you look at all the favorite tools in the industry and those tools which have, you know, been around, we always reference Figma, but it's a great example of a tool that isn't they haven't won this the online design space because they have the most amount of features. They want it because it's the best user experience. So for us, it's that really hard thing that we've already been gifted the technology, but we need to make it usable and available to everybody.

27:46 One of the biggest innovations that we said that we were gonna do that no one else was doing was to make the whole thing collaborative, and that we've achieved. So for those who haven't seen it before, I can take my

27:57 project that I'm working on right here. I can go up to the invite. I've actually already invited Kel to it to the project. So, Kel, would you like to join the project?

28:07 Now remember, everything you're seeing here is running from The US. It's not running locally within this room or even within The UK. It's all running out of The US data center. And you can see that Kel turns up, and he can start playing around with the project. Even better than that, imagine we're on a phone together discussing it, I can click to follow, Kel. And now without me touching, I can see exactly where he's moving the mouse to, what part of the video he's looking at. And that experience and that ability to collaborate is so much better than anything that's out there. It's the equivalent, and we've always positioned it. It's the equivalent of historically working on legal documents meant it print waiting for them to arrive in the post, printing them out, redlining them, putting them back in the post, and sending them off. That was collaboration. Now we have track changes in Google Docs and and Word, and we bought that exact same thing to the video, industry.

28:59 So not only is Kel here editing away, busy playing with my edit, but I could actually leave him some notes as well. So I could get to here, and I could leave a note just by putting his name in. And I could say, I think this shot needs a bit more warmth.

29:18 And he gets obviously a notification because I've messaged it to him. And, of course, he could be doing this not live like he is now. He could be doing this three hours later because he's in a different time zone. And and and we think the people who are using this across time zones are really gonna benefit from this sort of near side communication. So I've already got a reply in there. So Kel says he's on it already, so he's gonna work on that.

29:41 And I can dismiss that comment when I'm when I'm done. This is only the beginning of our collaboration story. It's the hardest bit, and it's the most important bit, which is that multiplayer element. But the bit that we're currently working on is a view only review mode, which means that I could share it to someone who I don't necessarily want to edit my project with, but it could be like a client for approval or something like that. And so that makes it, you know, incredibly powerful there,

30:05 as a tool in general. The other thing that we've added recently, that some of you will have noticed were the effects and the preview for effects. Now we only have at the moment four. We have a lot more in in in in the wings, a lot more that we're working on, and we'll be building that out, obviously, over time. And then transitions as well, which, we have our standard transition set, but we're also working on, a bunch of more modern traditional,

30:31 sorry, more modern transitions, which we will be adding to the products as time goes on as well. So we're really happy with where we've got. The things ahead of us are are there's some great things ahead. Better file support. We're already supporting more files than when we first launched. That better file support will open us up to work with slightly higher end and more professional users. We're gonna be adding amazing color grading capabilities. At the moment, our color grading gets you most of the way there, but we want to make sure that people can really get to that fine end of it. And, of course, one of the biggest things that we've always said again about being a cloud provider is unlike the desktop installed software where the AI elements tend to be run on the local machine, which means huge downloads, compatibility issues. One of the things that's very tricky about AI running locally is that you potentially have to be limited by the GPU you have. So if you have an NVIDIA GPU or an Intel GPU, it may be that the AI that's provided by the third party is only gonna work on one or the other. We obviously want to extract all of this away from our end users.

31:34 Because as a reminder, Elevate runs on a Chromebook, a first a $150 Chromebook. I happen to be running it on a Mac here. Steven's got a Linux machine, or it could be, like I said, a $150 Chromebook. All of the processing is done by us. All the heavy lifting, the heavy processing is done by us in the cloud. So we abstract that from our users.

31:54 And one of the advantages that we have in us being able to process all of that in the cloud is that we can leverage other people's AI engines to do stuff. And that could mean that we're farming it out temporarily to them to do the work, and we bring it back, or we're running the AI ourselves within our own containers and making that available to the end users.

32:14 So the first time for the first time, we'll give you a little demo of of one that we've working on at the moment, which is, one of many companies that we're talking to and and and building out integrations with. But this one is is based on OpenAI, so this is based on the same engine behind ChatGPT. And what you'll see here is I've got a little video of of a coast, and let's give it a little fade up in the beginning. Let's add maybe a little title as well so that we've got something to call it. Let's call it the the coast.

32:51 Let's position that slightly. Put it up there. So it's nice. I can even fade that in as well so it gives us something. And let's get some text for did a Wiki search earlier for coastal erosion, but, you know, let's just grab just some text from here, just straight off Wiki. And you'll notice in my my my environment is not available out ever out to everybody at moment, but there was a text to speech element, which I can stick in there. I could paste in. I've already made a choice of the of the of the word of of the voice, and I can hit generate. What that does is it goes off. It sends our text to OpenAI. They do the work. We get the results back, and then we're able to put it through our workflow.

33:38 You can see in the timeline right now,

33:40 it's generating within a few more seconds. We'll get this through the system. And what's nice is, of course, whilst they're doing all the generation, the cost effectiveness for us is huge because what it means is that we're able to provide that to our end users with maybe even a a small markup. Well, there is gonna be obviously a markup involved in it because it's a cost plus model.

34:05 For different types of AI, it will cost different amounts, and we'll obviously abstract all of that for the end user. They'll just essentially see the cost to them. So here's an example of what was created. On non rocky coasts, coastal erosion results in rock formations in areas where the coastline contains rock layers or fracture zones with varying resistance to erosion.

34:28 So there's a bunch of different voices. We haven't added on in all of the different tone changes and other things like that, which are due to come. But this is just one example of a generative AI. And, of course, we're working on image generous generation and the video generation integrating that. And AI isn't just about generation. There's a bunch of things which AI can do to speed up your workflow. So we're working with other organizations in the way that which they can we can utilize their AI to essentially process our videos to do things like remove noise or or or color treat them in a certain way. So, I guess, there's anything else that I think we could show from the demo? No. I think we could No? We could make one? To it as we go through the questions perhaps. K. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Son. Okay. So to preempt the question that we always get about souvenirs,

35:20 we have we have basically provided souvenirs for everyone today. So there's a there's a mug for everybody here. I hope you enjoy. Yeah. Think of us while you're having your morning cuppa. Alright. Okay. I'm gonna read some questions are a little bit long, so just bear with me. And some questions are no longer. I'll translate it to more than one question. As someone who's used Elevate as well as other online editing systems, it is clear that BLACKBIRD is building a quality product. But as an investor in Elevate, I'm most interested in how Blackbird is gonna successfully monetize it. We've seen only the tip of the iceberg in terms of what AI is able to do and how we'll be able to video content creators. A human touch will always be needed in video content creation, but one thing that seems clear to me is that AI will reduce the need for tea for teams of humans to create video content.

36:08 Blackbird is targeting to generate most of revenue from people taking

36:12 advantage of the ease of collaboration using Elevate, but AI reduces that need for collaboration amongst teams of humans, but only one human will be required in many cases. Does that not affect Blackbird's ability to generate revenue from from Elevate? Is Blackbird's paying market vanishing? So maybe you wanna pick up on that one. Yeah. Sure. I I don't think it hinders it at all. It adds to it. Everything we're seeing from the a AI space is gonna be additive towards it's just gonna empower people to be able to do more themselves. And the likelihood is is that that will be a net positive for collaboration because they'll be doing more and therefore working with others. I don't see that it it gets in the way of it. It's something that we fully embrace, something that we will absolutely be adding to our product. And more importantly, we get a distinct advantage because we're in the cloud.

37:02 It's very easy for us to leverage AI from lots of different providers, and that's something that's really hard for installed software companies to do. It's it's it's virtually impossible for them to do that. So for and and another bit just to remember is that because of for us, all of the content is already in the cloud.

37:20 It's very easy for us to work with third parties who tend to be in the same data data center infrastructure as us. Whereas for the desktop clients as well, they get a little bit more complication because they have to transfer all their footage and get that process to bring it all back. So that AI is gonna be a net positive for us. We're embracing it. We're doing it. We're actively working with loads of partners on it, and, you know, it's gonna it's gonna be a big move forward for us. I I I also see where the question is going in terms of looking at the overall market. And if if if video can be

37:51 created by one person, do you not need do you not have do you need two people there to to collaborate with? I think the answer to that one really for me is that the more video there's gonna be, it's like the more documents that are with Google Docs, the more thing people need to approve these docs. Video will be created, then there'll be a review and approve situation as well. And and we are gonna be very well suited to to review and approve rapidly review and approve better than anything else in the market, we think. And we, you know, we all are aware of frame.io being probably the biggest one out there for review and approve. We think we'll be far better than that. It's far quicker than that. The other thing is to to to mention on the AI side of things. Yeah. Someone's absolutely right. We are working with partners already. We're actually being bombarded by partners potential partners in in the space. When I say that, I mean, they're approaching me at mixing events, networking events on on LinkedIn, by email. There are a lot of AI functionality out there, a lot of algorithms looking for a a a place for it to be brought to use, and and Elevate is a perfect story for the a a great number of AI solutions, a great number of AI functionality to be given form and function. So we will make that that, those AI functionality useful, and that's what so where we are playing in the story.

39:03 Good. The second part of that question was, why haven't we seen the approaches for a buyout or investors wanting to take this this large a large stake in Blackbird? I think I I've given the right this this the same answer to this one over a number of years. It really is gonna be a, like, a testament to how many people we have using it. Not many people just buy a technology or just buy a product. They want to see that it's got track traction in the market and that, and that people have have got, it's got the right kind of trajectory. We are definitely working on that, and early metrics are very, very encouraging. What is the medium term target for ARPU, and how is it being comprised? Yeah. Well, we see that ARPU is gonna go up over time, you know, as as users add additional seats, additional storage.

39:49 We'll have different tiers in place. We'll have the marketplace there. But at this stage, you know, without a track record of anything, we're not giving out internal targets. Okay. As a marketplace question, what is your financial and business model for companies providing services or technology in the marketplace? Do you wanna touch on that one some, then we'll talk to you about how we're gonna be charged for? Yeah. So we the the approach that we're taking is, obviously, we will front the integration with all the third parties, and we'll be managing that. And we're aware of the costs that are associated to that. And then in terms of passing that on to the end user, will be a mixture of what's available for them within a monthly subscription and then overage for everything that goes above. So it'll be very similar to our storage mechanism.

40:34 Yeah. But, of course, we want it to be we haven't had to make the capital investment. We want it to be obviously profitable for us as an organization, but, also, we're well aware that it's got to make sense for the end user as well. The good news is is that so many of the technologies, things like text to speech, are so cost effective because they're used. They they become so cheap because of their use in automated telephony systems, things like that, that actually they're used to generating thousands and thousands and thousands of hours. And, actually, the good news is for us, that's quite low. So there'll be some AIs which are very AI solutions are very, very cheap. Others to with generative four k AI is gonna be very expensive. But the good news is for us, there's no cost to us, and it's a net positive to our bottom line. It's absolutely a revenue line. Yeah. It's obviously a revenue opportunity for us.

41:21 So in order to enhance the reputation of Elevate in the marketplace and deliver significant income for funding further developments, what plans do you have to secure some Elevate business with large established players? There's a there's a few examples of players ahead here, so I won't go through them all. It really touches to the point I was making about partnerships earlier is that we have we have the, capacity, and we have the connections in the in the industry to have these to to talk to to the to the right players at the right time. We wanna make sure that our product market fit is right, and then we will have those conversations. But it's absolutely part of the plan. Have you seen any competitors, responding to the appearance of Elevate with any with any degree of concern for you, Summit? Sorry. What did I said, are you concerned about any competitors in the market? No. No.

42:11 No. We're not. We are absolutely delighted that pretty much every other online video player is heading for the lowest end of the market. We've always said from day one, our aspiration is to get to 80% in the middle of the market. We're not concerned about 10% at either end. We're not gonna be the highest end avatar Hollywood finishing tool, and we're not going to be cat skateboarding down the road videos. And we're really happy that the online editors are absolutely focusing on that lowest lowest end of the of the market. That doesn't mean they're not gonna be successful. TikTok is a very successful company. It's not us. We're gonna go for that 80% in the middle where it's people making serious videos all the way up to fully professional videos, but people making let's call it content rather than just capturing a a a very short clip. So, no, I'm not worried, but we've not seen anything that comes conceptually close to anything like the experience that we've built or the accuracy that we've built or the what what it's obviously intended for.

43:10 We've not seen anyone. The the famous phrase in this space is the healthy paranoia. So we have a healthy paranoia. We keep an eye on the market weekly daily sometimes. So, yeah, no. We we are we are on the lookout, but we haven't seen anything close. Simon, why wouldn't you like to be a Hollywood star? I've been in that industry. They yeah. It's more brutal than it than it sounds. Genuinely, it's I've been in that world. And my background is film television, and the previous company I worked at did make tools that were used for film. It's a brutal, brutal industry. It sounds glamorous, but if you bear in mind, all of the effort is all of the all of the profit in film is made by the producers, the casting agents, the the major film stars. Production is very, very tough, and production tools are very, very tough.

44:00 It's a hard job. It's it's it's something that the here's the best news. The best news, and we're in conversations with a very, very, very renowned visual effects company that does is using every single Hollywood movie about how we get some of their stuff in what we do for the not the highest end, but even for, you know, just just getting it moving. So we will be including some of the fun stuff. I just we we we just know where the where the where the where the profit is, and it's it's we're not shy of hard work, but it's a lot of work for a very, very sketchy return. Yeah. It's a very fickle fickle part of the market. And I can tell you the distributors make a lot of the money. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like everything else. Everyone other than the people doing the hardest bit of work. Yeah.

44:47 Okay. So in previous meetings, the team has shared the wow and the MAU as in the weekly active users and the monthly active users and paid subs KPIs. The recent CAC, which is customer acquisition cost update, was also very reassuring to know that marketing spend is being spent as efficiently as possible. The most successful companies I've worked at thrive on that level of accountability and transparency. Will BIRD commit to continue to to to sharing those KPIs with investors so we can be very short of progress? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. So at our next reporting period at the at the interims, we'll we'll share those numbers. We don't wanna share them too often because we're in a sensitive industry as well. We are we are looked upon from our competitors, and our competitors don't release numbers every every few weeks. They are very private with their numbers that they release into the market for obvious reasons.

45:35 So we'll release them to be transparent to to you guys, but we'll do that at the at the reporting periods. That's a very good question. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Have any of your competitors acquired any shares in the company? You may not know, but it's just Not not to my knowledge. Not to my knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. Not not aware not aware of any that have. Okay. Next question. You continue to be compared to Figma. Can this cause problems with Figma? Well, I I I I don't think so. I think that I I I hope they'll be flattered by the comparison, and we haven't heard any, I think, bad from them yet at this stage. Now at this stage, we're fine. What IP advantages does does the company have over Cutting Room, which appears to be our closest competitor in terms of technology? Is Cutting Room's deal with Avid to develop a consumer prosumer product a big threat to elevate.io?

46:33 We know cutting room quite well from our Blackbird experience, and cutting room is is a is a is a great tool. It is very much at this stage in the media entertainment space. It's very much at the broadcast space. I haven't seen anything that's that would be the least bit threatening to elevate at the stage. Again, healthy paranoia, but not at this stage. I haven't seen anything that's gonna be we'll be aware of. They don't have a codec for sure. Question for Steven. Where are we with BLACKBIRD 10 and the player, Steven? BLACKBIRD ten's we're starting to test internally. The key point of it is is the codec after the current BLACKBIRD nine one. The key point is that it supports ten eighty p HD, full HD, four times the current resolution, and it's built as a drop in replacement for BlackBerry nine.

47:21 So that is sudden testing. But the the point of Elevate is we're getting the features sorted out first, which we're pretty well there with. And then the technology the big technology upgrades will come in after. And the player is we're using it for technology development at the moment. And as we develop the technology in the player, we roll out those features into Elevate. So you saw during Summit's demo how quickly you could scrub through the content, and that's something that we've added in this year that was developed last year in Spark, the Spark player. So there is a in the Elevate road map, there is a part, which I won't go into details, but submit might do. There's a part that will use the technology in Spark much more from player side.

48:08 But it but it's exactly how it works and fits in. We I don't think we've released yet, but it's, you know, it's the space. So Spark is used for technology demonstrations. And I I have a few testers, some of them in this room. I'm not gonna have a few more. People want to try it if they've got their Elevator account. Shareholders selected shareholders can ask to be added in and then they will get the ability to publish using Spark. And then as the technology rolls out, they will see it first and, obviously, help fix it. Although, mostly seems to work. So but that's that's the point of that. So, yes, welcome welcome a a few few more. More. It's we're not launching the player itself at the moment as a mass market product, but we definitely use it for testing and having a few users is a big help for that. Because for every few users in Elevate, we get thousands and thousands of views.

49:01 So at least I do. Quite a few people get a lot of views. So I think that summarizes Spark. So, yeah, watch this space. Thanks, Question another question on AI. Clearly, it's, people perceiving it as a threat. Can you discuss, how you see an editor developing with human skill and AI skills and show how much you feel the need to include AI features in Elevate as opposed to seeking them elsewhere? Do you fear do you fear Gen z type users wanting everything done as opposed to having traditional editing skills? I think as we said at the beginning, it's not the market that we're after. We're not after the turn up online, press one button, and accept whatever the output is. We are a creative tool that's used for people who are crafting something slightly more advanced than that. So we don't see that we we we're obviously adding in our own tools, and we're adding in third party tools.

49:57 But we also have this wonderful authoring environment, which is going to allow people to really control how their content ends up. Again, we're not worried about the bottom 10% of the market or the top 10. So I really think the one should not look at AI as a threat, particularly in the space of creation. As you said, if it's just outputting something because I wanna see two cats on the road, that's very different from creation. We are in the creator economy, and they, on the contrary, want enhanced collaboration. They want more and more tools, and they want so to be as efficient because they have to produce so much content to stay current. But they wanna do it at quality and a control level. If anything, we've seen longer content being being the trend right now and higher quality content.

50:42 It's this recent sentiment in the city that AI is going to destroy all creative industries. It's not the case. It's going to be enhancing, and I really believe that. We we did a panel on this last week or two weeks ago at South by Southwest. You know, the conclusion was by a team of experts was that it really is friend, not foe. It's really gonna enhance the number of tools available to a creator and and make creativity an easier process, meaning to be able to do it. So it's it's really a friend to to the to the platform and not a not a threat. It's more of a statement rather than a question. I agree. I don't think AI is a threat. I'm not creative in that from that point of view, but I have a lot of contacts of people in the creative industry.

51:29 The only people who are gonna benefit me are probably fraudsters to a certain extent. But, yeah, I I don't see it as a threat at all. I I I can't see it being a threat. It it the this whole package that you're delivering is for people who are creative as opposed to for AI, which is creative. It's people who are creative, not AI. So yeah. I I I think when the I think and I'm talking about Elevate as a platform here when I'm saying it's not a threat. I don't say it's not a threat to anyone in the creative industry. I mean, there are there are definitely jobs that can be done through AI and have been taken, you know, in the last ten years by other pieces of technology that have that moved in there for sure. You know? That's that's always it's a dynamic space, but we see it as a friend to our platform. Yeah. Do you wanna Oh, sorry. Yep. Sorry.

52:14 My my Yeah. Sorry. Perhaps more of a more of a comment than a question. I have a my my son's in the film industry and his wife, and they they make sort of millions, $10,000,000 films. So there's small film that don't get circulated. And I know a few other people who make videos. And the the difficulty I see for for Elevate is that they've tried sharing responsibility, and they know it doesn't work. So they developed their own way of making the films. It goes to the talk about Elevate. They're not interested in that, but they know how they how they make films.

53:01 And so to some extent, I see you're you're selling you're selling what's going to make Elevate fantastic if you get through to it. The the the it's very fast, good collaboration across different places. All things are impossible now, so people don't want to do it. And I what and some time ago, I think we were talking about making the earlier editor that we haven't dropped available to schools. And they are the people who are starting out, and they haven't any preconceptions about what you can do and how you can do it. There was some talk about at some stage a camera automatically sending stuff into into Blackbird.

53:47 Do you see this as a this is this a problem you see? And I'm just sitting here seeing you describe something. It's fantastic. And I'm worried that we we that that's tomorrow when we need today. Yeah. I mean, we have some technology and and sort of so their EVA system was a live camera to cloud. And in the professional market enterprise, we've had live camera going straight into in desktop, straight to the cloud for live editing of professional productions. So we can definitely support that if that's people what are interested in in elevating going forwards. The there's a big difference between a film which people discuss for weeks and months, and then they make that one hour to our film having, you know, discussed it.

54:36 They have collaborated already. But the the volume comes through people have to do a weekly or daily broadcast, and people need to review it. You know, the corporate world's you know, we don't have a a corporate video and then just, like, you know, and does it on her own or covered on her own. You know, Ian's gonna have his say, and Steve's gonna have his say, and I'll have my say. And all that collaboration is really to condense the time, and it's gonna be in much more, like, the high volume. And, I mean, this touches on another point. We're not designed for film and for Hollywood. You know, that isn't the area which is the top 10%, you know, which, you know, you take months to make a film and how how much much editing is there. We are much more in a much, much bigger market where you see videos on social media and they're just like there's an infinite supply of them. And they all have to be made and they have to be made at a high standard. Yeah. I think what you're just what you're describing is yeah. Absolutely. I can understand the valid workflow that they've got. They've got they've got the way of doing things, and they they kind of they need some serious persuasion to move away from it. But I would use our own marketing team as an example of how useful Elevate is as they are there's one person that's injured at home at the moment, so she can't work.

55:52 She's doing all the videos. So the the videos are created by her in her bedroom at home, but they're reviewed by the people in in the office that collaborates on directly. It is a massive time saver. It is a massive accelerator of of how content is being created. So we're kinda like eating our own dog food if, like, we we are using it day in, day out so we can see how useful it is. But you're right also about school kits and and about about about students, and we're seeing a lot of collaboration from from that end of the market that they're doing their it doesn't necessarily have to media students or field students. It's business students. It's science students that are using it to collaborate day in, day out amongst five, six, 10 of them creating a video together live. So you're absolutely right. And I I think that students and education is a is an exciting end of the of of the market for us. It's it's, it really is. I think it's it's a it's a huge potential for us. Kelly, you would you would test that.

56:44 Right? You're using it. Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. I'm really using it, and it's it's it's time to do content. I've been in contact since since the start of my career. And the amount of time that you're spending that isn't dedicated to to creative the process, so just technical kind of, you know, waiting for renders, waiting for uploads, downloads, it's well over half of the time you're spending on a video. Elevate cuts cuts all of that down to to to minutes, essentially. And, usually, that takes hours and hours. So, yeah, the turnaround times are have just been incredible in our own marketing team now. If I could add just one little extra piece to this. As we're not after that top 10%. So even if these are small one to 10,000,000, that's still in the top 10%. Probably still in the top 1% actually of of productions that go on.

57:37 When we did our initial data gathering for Elevate, we did focus groups. We had a film editing group. And I'll always remember the comment was, we I don't want someone collaborating in my timeline if it's my name on the credits, which is something so likely to come out of the film industry. We then went through the workflow that that particular user used in their production, and they said that the shortlist are all organized in Google Docs because everyone can share it and collaborate on it. And we were like, okay. So you're using it for that, and and you see all the benefits, but it's just your your your bit here. This is just a classic case of innovator's dilemma. The people who are at the highest end don't always innovate the next way of doing things. The three d printing came out of, you know, garages in Brooklyn, not out of the industrial, you know, complex in the industrial industry and cars. The EVs didn't come out of Ford.

58:30 You know, they came out of startups and and other people doing it differently. So for us, we don't see we see the quality and we see the, like, the what they produce is the in film is is it, like, a real goal for us, but not how they go about it. How they go about it is intrinsically not going to work for today's economy because it's too high end. You know? Thank you. Next question. Will EVS be offering Elevate to any of their customers? Could revenue from this channel be significant? I think EVS, I'd about the rest of the BLACKBIRD clientele as well, the majority is live. The majority is is live inputs, and they edit the live inputs and and then turn it around. EBS is is is famed for being kind of the global leader in in in live sports and news.

59:16 So it's possible when we have live going into the into the to to elevate that it might be useful to them in that in that regard. So I wouldn't rule it out, but it's not in our current near time plan at this stage. We have we've got a lot of other things to do in the in the mid. Just what you mentioned in EBS. Obviously, we did a lot you did a lot of work building the product, getting it ready, then we can switch. But there's always a contract there. So there's a minimum pay, and then they'd pay more if they're using one. Can you say if you're that expansion at at any pace? Well, we're still getting the minimum guarantee every year. The they they were exhibiting it at NAB this year as part of a a bigger workflow, and I think it was it was going down very well. There are there are talks of some deals that are happening, but we all know that industry is is is glacial in a in a way that it the deals are done.

1:00:07 Mean, that original deal that we were put into was a ten year deal in the making from their side. So, you know, it was it was quite a sync. So I I think the point is it's it's a slow burn, but it's certainly still learning, so it's still going. Donald Trump question. Trump is putting a 100% import duty on film products. Is it gonna affect Elevate? At this stage, it doesn't affect anything to do with digital products. So No. And, yeah, America is obviously very big in terms of exporting digital products, so it's unlikely that he's gonna wanna put tariffs on digital products software products. Yuri was present at a number of board meetings in 2024. Could you expand further on integrations he's working on, and and time scales for for them, please?

1:00:55 All in the product market fit phase, we're still getting to that point where where where Yuri's connections his connections are extremely helpful in terms of guidance for us, and he's he's introduced us to a number of very influential people. It's a case of when the product is ready, we will be pushing on those on those connections further. Is the Internet upload speed a problem for users who generate many hours of four k video to edit, work remotely, and have four g connections, for example? Also, can people still work if they are offline? So We've got to look at where the world is going, and and Internet speeds are just increasing rapidly. We we don't have amazing Internet in The UK, but our product works wonderful in The UK. We've been able to test it in various locations. Myself, personally, I tested it recently in Qatar and Bali, and the performance there was phenomenal.

1:01:48 Absolutely phenomenal. We honestly don't see this if if people who are early users of Skype, they'll remember the early concern over bandwidth. Now what telephony call you do doesn't go over IP. You know, what making a phone call on a regular phone is the problem now. It's actually easier to do it over IP. So we just gotta look at where this plays out and where it goes. And for those who are struggling, which you know, because they're in in in in in an Outback somewhere, well, that's why things like Starlink Group beginning to exist, and they're more concerned about you getting connected so they can be on WhatsApp. They'll fix that problem, and then they'll be able to use it. It's not fast speaking. Yeah. Yeah. They I'm sure. They they do. With the real marketing push not starting for a year, does that mean that we won't shouldn't see a a large increase in paying subs over the next year?

1:02:41 So we will be trying and and and opening up more channels to market, like I said, that that that second slide I showed today. So you will see changes to our marketing. You will see big marketing being more evident. You will also hopefully experience, because that's what we're we're after, is is a reduction in our CAC so that we continue to see that that dropping and an increase in our conversion metrics of of of free to pay subscribers, which has gone up a lot since we which we've launched the the the the pay service. But we wanna see it continue to improve month on month, and we will turn the taps on more and more. Yep. The CAC, is it sorry. Okay. The CAC, is it it just general customers, or is it it's not specifically paid customers? It's paid customers. Paid customers. Right. Okay.

1:03:32 Alright. Paid customers. Yeah. And and and free customers too, by the way. It's it's also improved dramatically, but down by, I think, about half as well as the the other thing. The free one. So it's just becoming more efficient all around. It's that it's it's word-of-mouth. It's training the algorithm. It's the product becoming better. It's the marketing website becoming better, marketing efforts. I mean, it's all it's all holistically improving the the the return. So yeah. I mean, I I was at I think you were aware that the UK government, Innovate UK, sent me to Austin in in March this year where I went to South by Southwest. And I did attend a lot of VC, actually about four or five VC dinners where I met a lot of VCs in in in the space and and and and other adjacencies.

1:04:18 And talking about where we were, it was very clear to me that, you know, the the lingo over here sometimes isn't the same as the lingo over there. And it was like, you you know, this is where you are. You've come in through your payment gateway. You're now you're now proving the willingness to pay for this product. You're in the product market fit phase, and that's you know, it's actually it's a fun bit. It's the bit where you're really trying trying things out and getting and getting stickiness and and, you know, bringing down the metrics on or improving the metrics all the way through. So this is the phase we're in, and we don't envision it lasting much longer than the the the twelve months, if if anything, you know, less than twelve months. So, yeah, that's where we are. I think in a way, though, your journey never ends, does it? You know, you will constantly improve your conversion. You'll constantly find a feature that really is a hook into collaboration. And I think what's really interesting about this team is they actually enjoy that ability to move levers every single day to improve our conversion and that's gonna con continue. We'll just be better and better at it with bigger spends. But that obsession about the user experience and the conversion and the quality of experience to get them to produce that first piece of content collaboratively and with the result they want is gonna be an obsession, I think, for many years to come. Always. I think always. You're absolutely right. Always an obsession.

1:05:33 We can always be better. You've mentioned today a lot about what you're working on. Would it be beneficial to indicate on the website some of the features coming soon so as to excite further potential users. Okay. This question for you too. I don't know how you feel about that. I know I know some of are very much Yeah. My from my point of view, we've always been a company that talks about stuff that we released or or let's just say a product in Elevate. That way around is so much more so much better, more efficient, doesn't attract problems. It's just easier to talk about stuff once we've done it than it is to try and plan out the future that you are not aren't aware of and then have to stick to that. And then you end up doing the work twice. Like, that's what happens. Whenever you have this idea that you're gonna talk about something and you're gonna put a date in the diary, you're gonna have a big build up to it.

1:06:26 Your the the amount of effort required to do that is massive, and it doesn't allow you to react to changes that happen in the market. And whilst we're not exactly at that level yet, we will get to that level. And the last thing we want to do is be consumed by our own process and our own timeline rather than actually working on the right one. Don't know whether wants to add anything to that. No. I think that I agree. Yeah. Yep. So I'm gonna ask you a question which I'm not expecting to get the attitude. Okay. Previous presentations, you've talked about beachheads and compared it to other companies find a beachhead. You talk about market fit. Are you finding the areas that you're developing the product to be a market fit for a product usage group that you consider a beachhead? Or you're still very general at the moment trying to find out where that beachhead is to land and expand from there?

1:07:20 That's that's a great question. I'll take my side first of Yeah. I think think the the the vision has always been to be a general purpose tool, and we are seeing quite a mix of different types of user different types of user that we are proving useful for. So from I mentioned before for for for students and school and university students, for for gamers, for hobbyists, but then also for influencers, also for businesses. We are seeing quite a broad range of use cases. I haven't seen a beachhead at this stage that that that that I would say because it's it's still, you know, still early days, but it's there's definitely some some patterns emerging from from it. Yeah. We're using one of those patterns. And I think that the point I made about about collaboration really seems to be happening in the younger users. It's a really good point you made.

1:08:14 I don't think there's much to add other than we didn't plan on education. We didn't plan on gaming. We didn't we almost didn't think that that would be the easiest because they're not necessarily the highest propensity to spend, but there's a lot of them, which is where we're now figuring out that actually, even if you just get a few I've seen this with previous digital products that I worked on that you'll never know. Like, we'll yeah. We we we could become the editor of choice for, for example, sports enthusiasts is another area we've just sort of seen. There's a lot of opportunity there with the amount that people capture their go with GoPros, their skiing or their cycling or things like this. Well, it's an undecated market. No one else is even thinking about or what generators or tools can we add to them. So we'll we may find that that becomes something. But we'll only know when we get to know because we have great telemetrics within the products, and we get to find out who people are and what they're doing and depending on how much they tell us, obviously.

1:09:08 But that's why this phase is so crucial for us not to skip it or to take the first thing that shows any success and put all of our eggs in that basket. That's a mistake. This is a general product. Its core will always be as a general product, but that doesn't mean that it can't excel in lots of areas that we target specifically through marketing. But if we try and boil the ocean, we'll we'll we'll just we'll we'll destroy you know, we'll we'll chew up marketing budget like no tomorrow. Yes. Thank you for what you're telling us. I agree with the way in which you are trying to move. And sometimes it's very hard to understand what you're trying to do.

1:09:56 However, there's going to be a time when your product reaches a critical mass, and you'll still be learning. Alright? Because once it goes out, there'll be other people jumping on board who will have desires or intentions that they would like. Is your product flexible enough to factor that in as well? Now I'm speaking literally out of the blue, and I'm getting a good idea of what's going on. I think you're doing a great job. Thank you. But the the more people that jump on board, the more questions and flexibility. So how flexible is this product to deal with the unknown, so to speak? It's a great question. Yeah. It's it's a really nicely phrased question. It's the irony is the flex flexibility comes from discipline.

1:10:42 We're unbelievably disciplined and unbelievably relentless at keeping certain things the way they are so as not to prejudice our future. And we've had this before. We've had marketing, and we've had users try and push us to do stuff. And we're so disciplined about what we do because we know we need to maintain this as a general product. It has to be it's so tempting, I think, in anything tech to just build on and build on. You end up with the, you know, And it it so it becomes a disaster. It becomes unmanageable. For us, this is obviously an ongoing project. There's no end to it. It's it's like every service, like every SaaS product. What it is in ten years is usually somewhat recognizable from what it was, but you you obviously move in different directions. And for us to keep that agility, we have to have you know, our vision has to be intact.

1:11:33 Our user group, obviously, we've gotta have good users, and they're gonna be paying us. Otherwise, we can't move forward. We have to be able to monitor them and understand what they're doing and react to that accordingly, but it all has to be disciplined. If it's undisciplined and we jump at every available opportunity or we, you know, just just go at things because there's one minuscule opportunity or something like that, then then we ruin the the the wider product. But the interesting thing is the foundation you build, we're always open towards an ecosystem. So we won't need to build every feature if it's not part of our roadmap or not part of our vision. We'll create the marketplace that will enable a user to do that because the way Summit has built this product is we're thinking about always an ecosystem, a marketplace, an openness to other partners coming in.

1:12:18 And therefore, that will make us much richer in terms of features without needing to build in left field that doesn't correspond to the vision because somebody will build that, and we will integrate it. I I think you'll probably shoot yourself in the foot. There is flexibility to it. Whatever it is sold to somebody else. So yes. That's exactly it. Yeah. We've built it through an idea of being part of an ecosystem. So de facto, we've built it in a flexible way. And people forget now that their iPhone marketplace only had Apple apps in it for the first iPhone. And it wasn't late till later that they opened it up. Obviously, we have the knowledge of their experience Yeah. And our concept is for something that can be opened up. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. Question. Question. Has anything happened to the idea of users finding other users? Can you give me three months free if you find x number of user sign ups?

1:13:10 I can see. Yeah. We're already we're working on that. So, yeah, the the the viral nature and also the referral and affiliate nature of of of the platform is absolutely part of the plan and being worked on right now. Summit also talked about the view only mode. This is something where you would not have to have a a Elevate account to be able to to to access the video, therefore, creating a lot more distribution for for that video and and adding to the variety of the of the platform. Yeah. Good. Great to see a road map for marketing. Are you able to share a road map with expectations around the development of the product, for example, AI integration and marketplace being opened? If we are not expecting to open up the product fully until mid twenty six, when will the placing be expected? We'll come to that second question in a second. So I think in the in we we did give a little bit of a road map in pre Yeah. Right. The final result There's nothing changed on that road map. Yeah. Nothing's changed there. We've hit we've we obviously have hit all of the things that we said we would do up until now. We're ahead on some things, and some things are taking a little bit longer, but they're all still within the boundaries of guidance that we gave.

1:14:19 As you know, we're not putting dates in the diary to say this will happen on this day because that forces a lot of bad behavior. But what we will do is, you know, we know what we're doing. We're we've never been more sure about what we're doing. That's for sure. As time goes on, we become clearer and clearer as to the path. And I think it's fair to say that we have achieved the things that we set out to do this time last year if you consider what we said we'd be doing by now, we've done. Second part of the question, when would we expect a placing to happen? Well, we are we'll we would look to tap the market for additional funds if and when we get to the right level of attraction, which we are working on. I would say when we get to the right level of attraction, which is which is, you know, which we is early metrics are very encouraging. Why has there been such a limited recent director buying, including the nets given the low share price and ambitious narrative?

1:15:10 I would say that we don't have a limitless amount of personal funds to that one. And, you know, when there is the opportunity to to to do so, we will we will certainly do so. Excellent presentation all around. Thank you. Thank you. It was very nice to say so. Why are you removing the 50% early bird offer? Are you seeing signs that users are willing to to pay $15 to subscribe? This is a learning phase, and we are definitely getting to a point where we we feel that the product has the critical mass of features, where it is it is value for money for for those customers now to to spend $15, €15, £15. It wasn't when in February, and, you know, we didn't wanna we didn't wanna think that that that they were overpaying. We now believe it is. Anything else you'll turn to? I think just that the the it's an early bird offer. It has to be otherwise, we're being untruthful. We have to end it.

1:15:59 We'll say. I mean, just there's a proper story. My wife spends a $120 a month on Adobe, and she much prefers Elevate. So, I mean, $7.50, $15. It's it's nothing. And and and that that Adobe is a fraction of what she spends on marketing business and, you know, her videos. It's like, if you can't afford $15, then you're not making money. You know? We're not aiming at the bottom 10% of freebie consumers. We're aiming people who actually make videos to make money or hobbyists who might spend, you know, thousand, 2,000, £5,000 on a camera. You know, it's not a big cost. Could you please update us on BLACKBIRD, the professional video editor? Is it still profitable, increasingly profitable compared to previous quarter, and what are the plans for it? The plans are certainly that we are working with with our customers who are loyal customers, on the very highest end of the sports and news industry, as you you guys are aware.

1:17:01 It is profitable. Anything else you want to say on that? Yeah. No. We gave guidance as well that we expect Brafta to be profitable as well this year as well. So it more than washes face, but also, again, the two the two products share the same technology so that there's benefits that go into place. Could you repeat when you think you're starting to use influencers? As a UK company, can't you pitch to UK companies to use it for corporate videos, for example? Cal, do you wanna ask the one one of influencers? Are you you comfortable with it? Yeah. Yeah. Sure. So so we you're reaching out already, and then there is some some some movement. We're reaching out already, and there's some some something happening there, the conversations. And I think the the affiliate and referral program that we alluded to earlier, they're gonna play a very big part in that to incent to incentivize influencers.

1:17:51 Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think to the point about about reaching out to companies, we're not intending to have a an in person sales team for for for something elevated. It's gonna be done digitally, and it will be done through various channels, which will include something directly to UK, US, and and other companies. Yeah. So there's there's for sure. When will I be able to upload content straight from my mobile to Elevate Cloud when it's on the move? We are actually working on, the first mobile upload interface. It's going very well. We don't have a exact indication of when it will drop, but it'll be easier for you to get content already from the phone. Is very modest. It looks fantastic, by the way. Yeah. You would It looks really, really slow. And it's also worth mentioning that we have improved upload recently, that back end is perfect for connecting the mobile app too.

1:18:51 So it's it's already started. It's from the development. Yeah. Mean, just to add to that, we we obviously care about experience, and mobile upload can be sketchy because of of the way the cell signals work versus, obviously, wired Internet Wi Fi. And so we've had to put in place a much better upload mechanism that can retry if things fail, and it it almost anticipates that there will be blackout and things like that. So we've got that in place. That's all working. We've brought out the interface, and then the experience that people will get will be will be good. Do you think any of the large players in the market understand Elevate and what you hope to achieve? Do you think they are concerned about this? I'm presuming this question is regarding the likes of Adobe and Apple Final Cut.

1:19:37 If so, what do you expect them to do? Any any thoughts on that one? I think it's look. They have a huge investment in the products working in a certain way. They have no for them, it's this there's another question, obviously, which is similar in terms of why wouldn't Adobe or any other company like that just do what we're doing overnight? Well, there's a long history of companies. It's Innovator's dilemma. The Monzo and Revolut didn't come out of Lloyds Bank. You know? The EVs have not come out of Ford and GM. They've come out of newer companies. There's just a long history in tech of this happening. When large companies have such a large vested infrastructure, a a large vested investment and a huge effort that they put around doing something a certain way, they're not gonna throw that away to move to something else over here usually until it's too late. That's Yeah. Kodak is another example of digital cameras, which is, you know, pretty well in the industry precursor.

1:20:35 And they completely dominated the, you know, the chemical film thing. They actually invented the digital camera, but they refused to do do anything anything because it wasn't what they did. And so, obviously, now all the cameras are made by, you know, Japanese electronics companies. So, yes, I think they won't necessarily realize till it's too late. And we saw that with Figma, actually. And it's just a matter of investment. It's it's the same reason General Motors are still investing in VA engines because that's what they know. It's what they do best. And for us, when we we it comes up often, obviously, the conversation, especially around Adobe, around competition. For me, this is maybe just my personal view. The biggest threat is a company like us. It's not Adobe Yeah. By far. The biggest threat totally comes from someone else like us.

1:21:29 I do agree. That's one of the reasons I asked a question about flexibility. And I think I I remember a good few years back, I asked a question concerning a well known product that went down the wall. And often when you when you get too big, your very structures in which we operate are your Achilles heel. So I'm I'm listening to you. I'm actually quite quite impressed with way you're going, but the flexibility is important, and so it's grand. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you for that. Cheers. I am also gobsmacked as to why Steven Streeter did not receive a 100% of his votes. It wasn't me typing this. Yeah. Steven is a genius and has always been right for twenty years. 100%.

1:22:17 There you go, Steven. Insurance wasn't new. Okay. Any any any ideas for how to extract revenues from from Elevate nonpaying users on platforms, advertising, other ideas? I mean, we are we are, I mean, we are we are adding to the platform all the time just in the last week since looks have been included. There are now a a whole array of looks that can only be accessed if you're a paying customer. So that's if you're if you're a free user and you want to use these these looks, then you have to go to beyond a paywall to get them. It's very similar to how Canva built out their platform, built out their paying platform. We are we are just at the beginning of that curve, but it's gonna be added to all the time. Did you wanna add something to that, Sandeep? No. That's it. I I think hyper focus on subscription is the right thing to do. Correct. Yeah. You you have to get that level of subscription, that customer base to then explore other things. If you if Cal, for example, spends time doing subscription, then another model, you'll lose the focus.

1:23:13 So subscription is absolutely the right way to focus. Yeah. The free users are are massively important because they're gonna do a lot of the the viral lifting for us. They will be inviting other people into the platform and collaborating, and those people might end up subscribing as well. So even free users are are very very beneficial to to our model. Yeah. Completely. When they publish a video as well, they have the adverts thing. So we're effectively getting a free advert system when they publish their videos. Yep. Hundreds of free adverts every day is exactly right. So, yeah, that's good. Ian, you're a UK company chasing US investors sorry, UK UK customers at present. Do you feel the need to spend more time there to understand the changing market? I don't know how much more I can learn from being in markets with video makers there. I think I think we can learn just so much here. It's it's it's yeah.

1:24:05 I think for events would be helpful as we gain more profile. There are a number of creator focused events and corporate focused video events over in The States. But at this at this stage, yeah, we're we're happy doing from here. Okay. How can a tiny company like BIRD compete with frame.io from Adobe? Surely, any technical advantage can be copied instantly. Do you want to take a call? I think, honestly, it's it's the answer that we gave earlier. Adobe as an organization will not They're they're not gonna go against their exact existing investment. In the case of yeah. Adobe tried to acquire Figma because they realized they had gone too far. So our concern, again, they're not going to throw away their they're not going to go down our path at all. They they that's not their route to market. They'd be it goes against what they're putting all their effort into and what they've what they make all their money out of. That's not the concern. It's not a concern. They're not the concern for for us.

1:25:06 Us. And it's not just them. It's the same as Apple are definitely not going to the cloud. They have never done well or or or it goes completely against selling our hardware. Why why would why would they make a product that runs on a $150 Chromebook if you're Apple? Why would you do that? Doesn't mean that Final Cut's not great. Final Cut is great. But why would they do that? There's no incentive for them to do that at all. Adobe, you know, similarly, they want it to be you to be part of that large ecosystem. All the other providers, like one that I work for, there's just you can't sway the ship. It's just way too big. They're not gonna throw. They're gonna burn everything down to build something speculative. They're not. So there's also just another thing, but it's related about the culture. Avid did try and do it years ago, and they spent years and years and years trying to move to the cloud, and they couldn't get it to work. And every year, their announcement was less ambitious than the one they'd promised the previous year. And in the end, they just dropped it because they don't don't know know how how to do it.

1:26:09 You know, it's a different mentality and these, you know, Summit says, they've got the wrong people running those companies. They don't know how to do it. I mean, they're well, I could just give one example. Just I'll just give you one analogy, which is Nokia. Nokia used to have, like, the biggest company in the world for mobiles. They had more users than iPhone at one point when we it actually came out to our offices. That point, had 650,000,000, and iPhone had 500,000,000. Said they were gonna give all their customer lists to Apple because they couldn't compete with the App Store and their model. And Nokia had their sort of engineering version of the App Store. It's not very user friendly. But and I said, why don't you just make your own App Store? And said, they said, well, they've asked all the people in Nokia, and none of them know how to do it. And I said, well, why don't you just go to Silicon Valley and hire 20 people? And they said, oh, no. It's not in our culture. We have to offer the jobs to the people in Nokia.

1:27:07 And And there there weren't weren't any Finns in Nokia who knew how to do it. So they didn't do it. And now, I mean, where's Nokia? It's basically gone. And it's sort of hard to imagine how that €11,000,000,000 company, whatever it was at the time, I mean, it would be much bigger than that. They they just cannot make that change. So yeah. What what are Steven slash Summit's thoughts on scenery closing down and some of the staff flipping to Adobe? I think it's it's sad for them. We we actually happened to meet them just before they they they ended. And overwhelming response to all memory from from the conversations that we had at a trade show were that this is very, very hard. Like, I always forget never forget there's a this is very, very hard was their sort of expression.

1:27:56 And I think that they, unfortunately, just didn't didn't didn't get far enough in the time that they had and took a parachute. That's that's it. It's it's you know, it's not actually good. We want that to competition's really healthy. It's a good thing. You know, we want to be the leaders. We want to win this thing, But we don't want do not want more people helping spread the word. They've helped spread the word of this of of this, you know, this this world. So, you know, that's a good thing. And if more of them do it, then that's good as well. But it is harder than it looks. So but it's also important that people can I mean, people want to use cloud? Everything, you know, Google Docs, talked about Figma and design. There are dozens of cloud applications, including all the social media things like Facebook and X and things. That's That's what what people, particularly the young people, so they expect. And if you say you've got to acquire desktop machine and install the software and get an upgrade every six months, it's like, what do you mean? It's like watching television at 06:30PM.

1:28:58 You know, they don't even know that what that there's a timetable because on the Internet, you just watch things when you want to. It's it's the wrong psychology, and it's not the way that the world's world's moving. Are there any more questions from the room before yes. Okay. I'll just go over to you. I've got a question about funding. I think in the after we had voted on the AGM resolutions, I think one of them, it might have been six or seven, said that we would not go beyond the permissions given in that particular resolution. If you went up to the maximum and say it was you could raise at 5 p a share, how much would you be raising based on your current commissions?

1:29:47 Yeah. I'm not I don't wanna get into speculation around fundraisers and things. But if you took our our the 10% resolution which was passed, it would be 10% of our current share price, which is around 1,700,000. Okay. So if it were to happen, it might be like the half a dozen high net worth individuals who came in at I'm 6,000,000 not going go into speculations around fundraisers, etcetera, here. But, yeah, the $1,700,000 is the answer. Okay. And if you were to, would any of it be That's right. That's right. I think we're going to go back and forth. No. This is this is a related, but not a direct question. If you were to, would would you be able to raise that money under the EIS VCT rules?

1:30:32 We have in the past. When we raised back in February 2024, we were EIS and VCT compliance. I'd assume if we were to try and apply again that we it might well still be EIS and VC. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be. Be. I think I think it lasts two years if you have permission. No. You have to apply every time. Oh, do you? You do. Yeah. Oh, okay. But but you've still got headroom because Yeah. We've got headroom. Yes. Yeah. We've raised about just over 3,000,000 whatever. Is that all? VCT. So you've got loads loads loads knowledge loads intensive companies Yeah. Who have hired. Well, should should you raise, I will participate on a EIS basis. Noted. Thank you. I'll have you down for a T shirt. I just wanted to ask some simple nontechnical questions.

1:31:25 What I wanted to ask is when we had the presentation three years ago, that very good presentation by Summit, do remember the one we had three years ago when everybody came in Wimbledon. Yeah. Shoreditch. Oh, Shoreditch. Yes. The share price was much higher then, and there was some indication that if things were going to go well, there was going to be some form of fundraising the following July, August. I mean, there was some talk about it, but the share price was much higher then. I'm just saying that never happened, and we should be ashamed really because we I mean, people of my generation are a bit older than you, and it's it's that, you know, we are very worried well, some of us are very worried about the share price and I've and as to when it's going to happen. So the other question I want to ask, how where do you see yourself in one, two, and twenty five years' time?

1:32:28 This is a site. Right? That's a For all of you. For all of you. I'm gonna argue that 15 questions. Yeah. I'm gonna argue that for for from the share price point of view, we're following a global trend in that. We're we're in no different position than plenty of other tech companies who were sitting a lot higher in 2023 or '22 '21, it was even more higher and more higher. So we're on a we're on a curve. Obviously, we wanna break out of the curve faster by our own efforts Yeah. Which we're all working super hard to. The the thing that we did I did say in a meeting recently to someone we were talking to, which I think is very fair, is we're in a way better position than we were then. Yeah. So if the stock price was there then, but we're in a much, much better like, this is so much more tangible. We've done what we said we would do. Years ago, it was it was very, very early days and the special event.

1:33:24 The product was you know, existed, but it certainly wasn't available to the masses, and it it it was very limited in what it could do. We now have a going concern, and I think that's the most important thing. We've turned the hardest point, and I think we understood this internally. A lot of people who work at on Elevate have come from SaaS businesses. And I'll I'll always remember that it's hardest to get your first customer than it is to get, you know, your hundreds or thousands or sort of getting getting getting people to buy the product, getting people to use the product is actually the the the toughest thing getting to that position of the zero to one. In I've got Steven will still be here. I'm not sure what I would need. I'll I'll I'll just give you another just another thing because you're obviously interested in the share price, which we don't control. I'm not Well, we we don't don't control it. But I will say that when we were IDOS, when I was at IDOS Yeah. We had a lot of customers buying our games, and a significant number of those who like the games bought the shares.

1:34:25 And that mopped up all the free float, and we got to over a billion pounds market cap back then. So that's worth several billion now. And now we've moved from a enterprise only, you know, a few people who aren't the decision makers. It's like the the finance directors would tell me use this because it's the most efficient. Now we're moving to creators who are actually in charge of their own world, and they decide what tools to use and a lot more. It's a much bigger audience that we're in. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those decide to buy some of the shares. And over time, that could take the balance and expand among those shares. Excellent. It's all about the fundraising. You had a timeline and you had she had it as part of if use it as an example of how people built up the product, built up, the number of users, where they went to it, and where they actually then did capital raises.

1:35:18 Obviously, we're all worried about the share price. We've worn it a lot. We've actually carried on investing as well. Thinking jam tomorrow. Jam tomorrow. Obviously, we're getting closer and closer to that point. Do you think the next fundraise, everything going in trajectory with ambition, etcetera, users picking up? You're leaving it as late as possible hoping that there's a better price, there's more people willing to put in money at that time, and then use that money. Voice that for marketing, etcetera. Yeah. And then it's a matter of, okay, nobody's gonna care because now we're off. That kind of thing. It's it's a big bang. And then the other side of that is you mentioned VCs. You're obviously talking to people. A lot of the talk about this company is running out of cash. Have you got people actually already coming to your door and actually knocking saying we'd like to get involved?

1:36:04 I'm I'm not gonna get into the speculation on the second question for sure. But the on on the on the first on the first one, you know, you're not far off on that one. We we are we we we know we've gotta get to a scale up phase, and it will be a small amount of money to get us from here to the scale up phase. So we want to make sure that we, you know, we we're we're not gonna run out of money. If there's a small top up we have to do, then then then we will do it. But it's it's it's it's, yeah, it's not far away to get to that scale up phase. So it's absolutely about traction. Correct. Will existing shareholders be involved in each time? I'd like that. I'd like that to I'd like that to be. Yeah. For sure. I know you don't want to be too specific, but about how much money in total are you going to need to market this properly?

1:36:51 If not now, then at some stage in the future. I think that really depends on ambition. You know, I I could I could answer a question with a with a, you know, one zero or two zeros. You know, it's just it's about it's about ambition. It's like where do do we feel this this company has the potential to be a Figma for video editing? Obviously, there will come a point when you will have enough users to be able to use the money that you're getting in to market it further. Mhmm. But how much are you going to need to get to that stage? I would refer back to the earlier question, Philip. It's it's it's it's really about you know, you you could say I mean, if you're talking to UK investors, they say they ask that kind of question. What what number is breakeven? How much do need to get to breakeven? When will breakeven take place? If you speak to US investors, it's like, when can you get to product market first stage and scale up phase?

1:37:53 And they want you to take the market. They don't want you to get to breakeven. That's that's a it's a it's a different mindset. And, know, I have got to bear both in mind. I've got to bear both in mind. So I'm not going answer the question directly, but This isn't a placing question. This time, you'll be pleased to know, Steve. There's been a number of TR1s, specifically from Premier Mitten. Mitten. Mitten. Yeah. Who are reducing their stake. You can't speak for them, and I realize that, but I suspect it's because it's from redemptions. Have you are there any other premium type investors which you've got who who have also been doing redemptions?

1:38:47 And do you monitor the redemption rate? I mean, has it's gonna turn a corner one day when there aren't there's no net redemptions. There's actually investment in these funds. Yeah. And you might expect then that premium income would be topping up. Have have you got any Yeah. I mean, all I can say, I can't talk specifics about premium mitten and everything, but they they have had a very tough time. As we all know, the the top seven companies, you know, tend to be technology companies, and everyone's wanted to invest in them. And they've seen massive returns over the last few years. So that means there's there's there's a lot of been a lot of redemptions in The UK, in particular, small cap stocks, I know, from my own portfolio as well. So the only way that they can they can actually pay for those redemptions, as you say, is is is to sell holdings. I like the liquid one. Okay. Yeah.

1:39:38 But the liquid stuff the name it seems. But there's another I've not been in lots of these ups and downs and video markets particularly prone to them. But I will say that in the city, I've been in the city for most of my life now. They they all like doom and gloom and everything. And then they after a bit, they just get fed up with that because no one makes money if it's just permanent doom and gloom. And then they all just sort of like, there's a change. And suddenly, it's like, wow. How could things get so cheap? And then they're all, like, diving in, you know, and then that's it's like seven year cycle or something. I think we're at the beginning of that cycle, frankly. People are starting to get fed up with this thing. You know, Trump does his World War three yet again, and people like nothing happens. You know, people have just said, oh, you know, not again. Another World War three. You know?

1:40:26 Let's see what we can get, what opportunities there are. And I think we're starting to see those signs of life. Excellent. We hear green shoots. You've been great about that. Green shoots. And Trump Trump, you know, in a way, doesn't help the investment in The US with all his flip flopping with, you tariffs, etcetera. And I think people want a certain environment, you know, where they can reinvest them for the longer term. Another point, actually. I mentioned that. The dollar has taken a big tumble recently. And of course, most of your business at the moment at this emergent stage is in The US. It's Sweden roundabouts. Yeah. Is that having any sort of adverse effect on you? It will have a bit of an impact, whatever like that, in terms of our revenue. Obviously, we try and mitigate it.

1:41:12 But, yeah, the majority of our costs are in sterling as well. We don't hedge or anything. But, you know, yeah, you can see that, you know, it's gone down, you know, sort of, you know, five to 6% or whatever like that compared to previously. Yeah. And it will it will go the other way, won't they? Yeah. Precisely. Well, we have our secret weapon, a chance there. Might balance out a bit. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. We continue to monitor it, but it's not worth our time and and the the cost involved of actually hedging at this stage. But she changes her mind all the time. Great. Any more questions? There was one more about, souvenirs. Yeah. If you give me a free t shirt, I will also be an advert for you any chance.

1:42:03 Watch this space. Nice to hear, guys. So come and help yourself. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.