AvenuesAI (NSE:CCAVENUE) Q1 2027 Earnings Call

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the AvenuesAI Limited Earnings Conference Call Q1 FY twenty seven hosted by Co India Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rajat Gupta from Co India Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Yeah. Thank you, Anushka. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to AvenuesAI Limited earnings call to discuss the q one f y twenty seven results.

0:50 We have on the call with us today mister Vishal Mehta, chairman and managing director mister Vishwas Patel, managing director and chief executive officer mister Sunil Bhagat, chief financial officer and also mister B. Ravi, who's advising AvenuesAI on corporate and financial strategy as an independent consultant. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward looking statements and must be viewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. I now request Mr. Vishal Mehta to take us through the company's business outlook and financial highlights, subsequent to which we'll open the floor for Q and A. Thank you, and over to you, sir. At the outset, I want to let you know that we had strong revenues this quarter.

1:39 Revenues increased by 109% year over year. We have been concentrating on building volumes and absolute profitability, and both have gone in the right direction with the profit after tax going up by 45%. I want to walk you through the AvenuesAI strategy, and we believe we have got four focus areas. One is payment, second is consumer, third is intelligence, and fourth is credit, and they increasingly reinforce one another. Payments is our foundation. CCAVENUE moves money for merchants and continues to fund our investments in the next phase of our business. Consumer is Rediff. Rediff, Rediff Fund, Rediff Pay, Rediff TV, they give us direct relationship with consumers and business, something most fintech companies simply may not have.

2:27 Intelligence is current AI, which is now proposed to be merged with AvenuesAI. We are putting AI on top of transactions, payments, and enterprise workflows to create new products and capabilities. Credit is our emerging distribution layer. Through strategic minority investments and regulated financial institutions, we can distribute credit without putting lending risk on AvenuesAI balance sheet. The important point is that these are no longer separate businesses. They are becoming one integrated platform. We have been building Rediff into a broader consumer and enterprise platform. Rediff Pay is progressing well as our UPI based consumer payments platform. It will be out of CUG this month and into production.

3:13 Rediff One is evolving into an operating platform for businesses bringing together commerce, communication, compliance, intelligence. Rediff TV as a news and Rediff Gurus, they add content and community. The opportunity is therefore much bigger than legacy Rediff business. We are connecting Rediff's consumers and business with AvenuesAI learning from payments and AI capabilities and unlocking value from the ecosystem. AI is the next layer of payments. We believe the next generation of payments will not simply move money faster, it will enable machines to transact. Through frenetic AI, we launched PayCentral, which we believe is India's first agentic payment platform built on Google's agent payments built protocol. It enables the AI agents to transact directly with one another without requiring a person to manually initiate every payment.

4:04 Think of it simply, an AI agent understands the intent, finds the product or service, makes the decision, and completes the payment. We call this uberizing payments, removing the friction between intent, commerce, and payment without replacing the merchant or the consumer. We believe this can now become a layer of digital commerce. That is the reason why we have changed our name from Infibeam AvenuesAI. We are no longer a payments company that does AI. We are building AI first fintech infrastructure company that started with payments. Payments give us scale. Rediff gives us consumers and enterprises. AI gives us intelligence, and credit partnerships gives us access to financial products without balance sheet lending risk.

4:50 This is the ecosystem we are building. The first quarter FY twenty seven, we actually made meaningful progress across each of these pillars. We received in principle approval from Central Bank of UAE for retail payment services, which is a CCAV three license for Avenues. UAE is already one of our strongest international markets. The license will allow us to broaden our customer reach and product suite and strengthen our long term international payment strategy. In India, RBI authorized AvenuesAI to set up payment system for issuance and operations of prepaid payment instruments. These approvals further strengthen our regulated payments infrastructure across India and international market. In terms of our asset light expansion on credit, we've moved from strategy to execution in credit.

5:40 We've progressed well in proposed investments in of up to 2.5% in Rakuten Capital, which is a RBI registered NBFC with a very strong SME lending franchisee. We also approved a strategic investment of up to 7% in online PSB loans, India's largest public sector backed digital credit platform. Our model is deliberately asset light. AvenuesAI provides AI payments infrastructure and merchant distribution. Regulated partners provide the balance sheet and underwriting. This allows us to participate in India's digital credit opportunity without taking lending risk onto our own balance sheet. As far as trust is concerned on the intelligence side, we are building another important capability.

6:29 Enterprise AI that stays inside the enterprise. Through Frontendic AI, we are developing on prem AI solutions using small language models in specific about a billion to 10,000,000,000 parameter reach. These models can be deployed, trained, monitored, and retained within client's own infrastructure with sensitive data remaining inside the organization. Our platforms are built specifically around this requirement. For enterprises, particularly those handling sensitive data, sovereignty, security, and controls, these model capabilities are becoming increasingly important. We believe this allows us to compete on trust, not simply on model size, and creates a new AI native revenue opportunity beyond payments. The board of directors have also taken two significant decisions this quarter.

7:19 First, Neuromind, which is our AI, fully owned AI based subsidiary is being merged into AvenuesAI. This will give us synergies and seamless operations and lead to cost benefits and data consent also. The second we are doing is a reverse split, which is a face value of share, which was INR 1 is being increased to INR 10 per share. Consolidating the face value to 10 instead of one has a significant impact on how our shareholders will perceive us as well as on the liquidity. I will now hand over the call to Vishwas to take you through the payments business. Vishwas, over to you. Thank you, Vishal, and good evening, everyone. Vishal has laid down the strategy. Let me bring in down to what we are seeing when merchants... With merchants and consumers.

8:11 Our strategy is simple. We are not trying to add another payment option. We are trying to become a more deeply embedded in the merchant's workflow. A good example is the integration which... Of CCAVENUE payment gateway with SIP Rocket checkout. SIP Rocket's d two c and SMB merchants can now access same day settlement, international payments, no cost EMI, and payment links links across WhatsApp, SMS, Instagram, and email without managing a separate payment relationships. We are applying the same model across other verticals. Our form builder has onboarded thousands of education institutions and even merchants. Our bill avenue platform process millions of utilities, mobile recharges, bill payment transactions with agent led adoption, driving deeper financial inclusion.

9:02 Our revenue platform, that is our integrated reservations and payments platform, is scaling across thousands of hotels and connects with systems such as Opera, Micro, Fidelity, or property management systems and leverages our AI based tools to help them implement smart pricing and optimize occupancy rates. The principle is consistent. Make payments part of the workflow, create more value for the merchant, and the transaction volume follows. Our transaction processing volume for the quarter grew 74% year on year to INR $1,479,000,000,000 with continuous strength across utility payments, government payments, retail, B2B and hospitality. Our performance reflects that.

9:48 Strong execution in our core payments business, completion of a broad and defensible regulatory stack, measured progress in AI driven commerce and consumer platforms, continued discipline around scale, profitability and risk management. We remain focused on building trust, compliant and intelligent payment infrastructure at scale, while selectively investing in platforms that extends our long term growth runway. On the consumer side, Rediff Pay will continue to scale as a UPI platform once it has passed the CUG stage. We see Reddit Pay as a genuine second leg of the payment business, bringing consumer transactions increasingly onto our own payment rails.

10:37 Reddit One is also expanding beyond email and communication into commerce, compliance and intelligence, making it making it an operating platform for businesses. On embedded lending, our merchant network is becoming the distribution layer. As Raknafin and OPL progress towards closing, we expect merchant financing, checkout financing and working capital products to become available across the CCAVENUE ecosystem with lending risk remaining with our regulated partners. With that, I hand over to Sunil Bhai for the financial performance. Over to you, Sunil Bhai. Thank you, Vishwat sir, and good evening, everyone. Let me start with the key quarter one FY 'twenty seven numbers.

11:25 On a consolidated basis, our gross revenue from operations stood at INR 2,680 crore, which is up 109 percent year on year. Our net revenue stood at INR 147 crore, marginally down by 3%. Our EBITDA excluding other income stood at INR100 crore representing 41% increase year over year. Our profit after tax for the quarter stood at INR85 crore, which is up 45% year on year. This performance builds on the strong full financial year 2026 trajectory, where our gross revenue was INR8516 crore, which is up 103%. Our net revenue was full year INR $60.03 crore, which is up 15% and PAT was INR $2.95 crore, up 25%.

12:17 So far as our FY twenty twenty seven outlook is concerned, our company expects FY 'twenty seven consolidated revenue to be in the range of INR 11,000 crore to INR 13,000 crore that is growth of around 35% and above and also expects the FY twenty twenty seven EPS to be in the range of INR 8.75 to INR 9.5 per share, which is based on the proposed post corporate action face value of Rs. 10%. Our cost base remains front loaded as well as we invest in AI infrastructure, international expansion and our new financial services capabilities. We are therefore not building for a short term margin spike.

13:03 We are building for a structurally stronger and more scalable margin profile through FY twenty twenty seven and FY 2028 as these businesses begin to compound. With this, I will now hand over call for Q and A. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question to assemble. We take the first question from the line of Amish Ghanani from NoWise Investment Managers.

13:58 Sir, we had filed for this DRHV of Redev, and I understand it was confidential. Last quarter also I had asked this question, but if you can give us one the progress on the same. And we were more worried about this corporate action that we are taking, whether that could impact our timing of the issue. Because one, if you can just remind us of this reason for this corporate action, was it so critical and whether that impacts our timeline for it. Because I understand the valuation of our company would really be unlocked if Rediff has a separate way of valuation because the data is also not coming out in total.

14:49 So, one, if you can address that. Sure. So this is Vishal here. Basically, we don't see any impact of the corporate action on the filing of Rediff. They're two separate events. The corporate action is, to remind you, just increasing the face value of the share from 1 rupee to 10 rupees. And so that applies to the shareholders of AvenuesAI. So think got the merger of that other subsidiary that we are merging with AvenuesAI, I think, ProIntegrate. Correct. So the fully owned subsidiary of the company is merged into the parent. So that has no bearing to the shareholders of AvenuesAI.

15:39 Basically, it's a 100% subsidiary of AvenuesAI. And so the proposed corporate action that we have suggested is to merge the fully owned subsidiary, which was undertaking the work of AI models, frameworks, and all the opportunities related to that. You know, we believe that if we bring that company directly as part of AvenuesAI, then the AI adoption will grow much faster. It is part of the we've also recently in our press release mentioned that we plan to build out transaction intelligence scores and many more. And so with that kind of, you see in AI data becomes extremely critical and important, consented data. And so what we believe in is that if it becomes part of the main entity, then the growth opportunities, the trajectories are significantly more.

16:38 We don't believe that this corporate action of merging the subsidiary into parent has any bearing to the proposed filing of Rediff. Any update there? Or it's too early to speak on that end? It's slightly early to directly talk about it. But yes, I think that we followed the due process. And you can see some updates which are there on the SEBI website. Sure, sir. Sir, this pay central thing that we are doing, if you can give us update on how the commercial traction there in terms of merchant onboarding? And a related question there, sir, is this last thing was all over the place about MDR.

17:27 I understand two quarterback I had asked you this question if and when the MDR comes, whether it will be a beneficiary. And you did mention it will be a beneficiary to us. The only concern that now in the public domain is being discussed is that the large payment providers will get a larger share of the MDR and hence maybe the market gets consolidated. Given our market share being relatively on a lower side, would it be an opportunity or threat in that context, Vishwas, you want to take the MDR first? Yes. So MDR, UPI is significantly growing on our base.

18:13 Today, almost 22% of our transactions are on UPI. So any kind of monetization on that UPI will add additional revenues definitely to our platform. Right now, as we stand, the act has been passed by the Lok Sabha. It still awaits Rajesh Shaba and still awaits president's approval and then the gazette. And then we will know what kind of pricing and monetization that NPCI and RBI is allowing to be done. Is it... But for... Know for sure that it's gonna be on big merchants and for higher value transactions. But once the final that come in, then maybe we'll be able to propose what kind of revenue can be generated. As far as check is concerned, there's no chat as per se.

19:06 There are options like UPI, which runs across... Deeply across all kind of payments that happened. So there is something for everybody in the system, in the ecosystem to gain out of it. And there is no consolidation on the acquiring side. On the issuing side, yes, where a lot of have some base. But on the acquiring side, on the online acquiring side, it's quite evenly spread out. So we do have a significant 8% to 10% share of the overall market. So let's see. As in that monetizing Apple, it will be good only. It is a it is a endeavor that we, ourselves as a company and myself, have try... Have been working on it to get that monetization bit going for the last couple of years.

20:01 So finally, it is 55. Let's see. Sure, sir. Congratulations on that. And, sir, that any any update on the merchant onboarding and base handle, you know, how are we kind of progressing? It's early days still. So in other words, the protocol is new. I think internationally, it's growing a little bit faster than in India. I think the intent protocol is actually working fairly well. I think as far as using AI for merchant onboarding and productivity, I think there are three things that typically you can do with this. One is you can actually increase productivity significantly, which is AI is actually complementing the human in terms of getting productivity through. I think there we have made massive amounts of progress. Second is replacing humans.

20:47 I think it's a dystopian, but it's not something you can rule out. So in other words, if you take it further, that particular opportunity can replace the human actually in the loop. And then the third thing is actually, AI will end up doing things that you could technically not do in the past. For example, reconciliation of every single transaction as an audit. I don't think that from that perspective, it was possible in the past. You could do sampling. You could do many more, but now you can. So just give you an example of what you could do now. So we think that all these three things are happening as we speak. As far as consumers opting to actually transact using agents, that is still in the early phases. Sure. Sir, last question before I fall back in the queue.

21:36 This quarter, we were saying that you were not chasing gross revenue top line growth, but a net revenue. But unfortunately, that number has not grown. And still, we have been able to increase our operating profit, which seems to be coming more from compressing the expense line item. So if you can explain what is happening there and what is the trend like? Should we be focusing more on gross revenue or net revenue? Because the guidance also, I think, we have given it in terms of gross revenue. Yes. You should focus on net revenue in our opinion because that is the one which will perhaps give you the best indications in terms of how the company is progressing. Yes, we will there are certain specifics that we would take up, including the ones that we talked about, which is distribution of credit and so on and so forth.

22:30 And that should all pour back directly into the net revenue. So we think that, that is something that one should definitely take a look at. Gross revenue may fluctuate based on mix and other specifics. Sure, sir. So the operating EBITDA margins the operating revenue margins are increasing more from the expense line item, right, sir? Yes, that's right. Sure. All the best. Thanks and all the best. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Dipesh from Mania Finance. Please proceed. Hi. Am I audible? Hello?

23:18 Yes. You are. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On the on the enterprise SLM private GPT, there's a new unproven line competing against the well capitalized global players like OpenAI and. So what is the go to market strategy or the target customer and the expected revenue contribution timeline? So we find that SLMs are very good at solving specific problems. A lot of it is actually... If you come to think of it and if you try it out, you can increase... I mean, you must be user user of many of the LLMs. But if you keep on prompting, prompting, prompting, you can actually get much better results. In in this particular instance, what you do is you take data which is specific to a particular company. You vectorize it. You build out knowledge graphs on top of it, SLMs, and then some application layers.

24:14 We find that enterprises like... Where data is critical, financial institutions, critical operations in some ways, they would all want this kind of a setup, which is SLM driven. I think the opportunity is significantly large. It is still in early phases. I think it actually reduces the token cost also significantly. And what we realized is that many of these companies, they can solve a lot of problems building workflows. You don't even have to use tokens and then perhaps optimizing it using SLMs, and that becomes specific to that particular setup. So we think that, you know, it's... I mean, how do we productize it is a bigger opportunity. And if you are able to give some kind of a DTX and something which consumers can... And enterprises can start utilizing, it becomes valuable.

25:08 In terms of impact to our business is concerned, I think it's about anywhere from nine to eighteen months out, where you'll have you'll start seeing some good impact, we believe. Right. And what what is the exposure on the token which the... Which uses the the LLX? What what will be a risk on the token prices, and how has been the trend of the token prices right now for us? Token's likely inflationary. You know that. So in other words, you know, I mean, there's lots of optimizations that one can do, you know, in that area, in that space. You know, and then there's new stuff happening on a daily basis.

25:55 So I think, you know, for us, you know, and, you know, typically, infrastructure tokens and so on and so forth for our internal use, of course, we'd spend. But, you know, for the ones that we give to our clients, clients would actually end up paying that. So we pass on the cost. It's a pass through for us, typically speaking. You know? But if you think about SLMs and if you have this kind of a fabric, then either token cost falls by about one tenth of what you would typically see because you don't have to... The data is actually somewhat air gapped. It's not going out. It's within the premises. And so, you know, the youth... Utilization and so on and so forth is is significantly improved, you know, with this particular setup.

26:42 So, I mean, the way we see the opportunity is that, you know, for critical infrastructure, for financial data, for many others, the utilization of LLM will be limited because of the data security concerns. You know, it will move towards the SLM framework, and that is what most companies would end up, you know, working on. That is the opportunity that we believe will perhaps work as well, but if we can actually productize it, it's even bigger. Right. And about Radius Pay, now still prelaunch and The UAE and RBI licenses only newly received. How much of the FY twenty seven growth guidance is already assumed?

27:28 And the contribution of from these unlaunched or newly launched businesses versus being a pure core CCAVENUE to it? I think we have not assumed much from Rediff Pay because it's a UPI payment option. So for FY 'twenty seven guidance, we have not assumed meaningful contribution from that, if it makes sense to you. Right. And, I mean, as the previous participant said that, you know, we are planning to list Rediff as a separate entity. What has the revenues? And will we list Rediff as a AI provider, or we will list it as a a more of Rediff pay and, you know, very similar to the pay teams of the world?

28:26 Rediff has, you know, three large opportunities. One is really fund, which is the enterprise side of the business, which has emails, commerce, you know, in some ways, you know, CRM, HRMS, ERP. Think of it as something similar to Zoho one in some ways, but I think that that's one opportunity that Rediff will go after. Second is Rediff Pay, which is what you mentioned, which is more like the UPA payment and fintech opportunities, wealth management, and many others. And the third opportunity is we describe as content and Rediff TV, which is not the linear TV that we talk about, streaming with a lot of content. So we think that it is not gonna be the legacy only business. It will be AI enabled new version of what we think consumers and business will connect into.

29:14 So how is it gonna be different from... I mean, just... Sorry. I'm I'm sure you you wanted to add, but how is it gonna be different to different to our existing company? That's consumer facing payments. This is... You know, acquiring is in CCAVENUE. So merchant acquiring is the... You know, so AvenuesAI will focus on the b two c payments. I mean, consumers paying to businesses. And Rediff is gonna focus on the consumer side of payments. You see, payments is two different elements. Today, for example, a consumer does not download a CCAVENUE app and utilize the app. They will go to the merchant where they will find the payment options, and they will pay using CCAVENUE. So we are on the business side and the acquiring side. We are not on the consumer side. Rediff is on the consumer side.

30:07 Right. And what about the AI? I mean, you've actually explained how the payment module will be from b to c and with AvenuesAI b to b. What about the AI part of our company? Will that entirely go to Rediff? AI is completely as part of AvenuesAI. So Frontic is being merged into AvenuesAI, which is Neurobind as a subsidiary, which is a 100% subsidiary, is merged is merged into AvenuesAI now. So the entire AI vertical of people and everyone else will be part of AvenuesAI. Great. Great. Thank you so much, guys, and all the very best. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of from Creator Capital. Please proceed.

30:58 Hello, Am I audible? Yes. Hello. Yeah. So just a couple of things I had. So first of all, EBITDA margins have expanded sharply to around 8% of net revenue. What is percent within a year ago? So, like, what will be the sustainable margins, like, both all the investments into AI and the platforms has been done? We've given guidance for the year, this year. So if you look at the press release and of our guidance, we're projecting revenues to come in between INR 11,000 to INR 13,000 crores and earnings per share from 8.75 to INR 9.50. That is net of the capital that has been allocated to be spending on AI and platforms.

31:49 I think that we've adopted the approach of ensuring that we are not chasing the short term profitability, we are looking at the long term impact, but we're going to track and monitor what happens in the short term very sharply. So we have a slightly disciplined approach, and we've put certain guardrails. But, yeah, we would definitely be increasing our intent to forward invest in AI, and that will continue on. Okay. I think as far as the EBITDA for the quarter is concerned and next quarters, the full year, we have given the guidance so you can actually be able to look at whatever EBITDA margin has been compared to Pat and come up with the EBITDA versions.

32:41 Okay. And apart from this, as you've mentioned, the gross revenue target for the entire financial year, we have it's a whole 35% to 60% from INR 8,000 approximately INR 11,000 to INR 13,000 crores today. But the EPS is flat. The guidance in the EPS part is flat. So considering the 557%, the EPS should also have grown by around 20% or so. Why the EPS is flat, the guidance that you've shared? Yeah. So one thing that we think we want to continue on is, and we've got a philosophy, and it's pretty simple, that we want to protect our earnings of the core business and we will want to forward invest incremental cash generation to build the business of tomorrow, which is actually in the AI and other areas.

33:32 So we expect the core business to remain strong and profitable and generate increasing operating accruals. And we believe that beyond a certain amount, the incremental capacity will be selectively reinvested into AI. Transaction intelligence, the high conviction growth opportunities that we have. So if you think about our philosophy and our approach, the thing is that we want to grow the core. We want to generate incremental accruals. We want to reinvest selectively in AI. We want to build out all new revenue streams, and then we want to compound earnings over time. So you're right. I think that, you know, we believe that, you know, additional accruals that come in as part of our build out will be reinvested back.

34:18 And, you know, we want to think about if we if you think about our ambition from '27 to '29, it's not simply about maximizing earnings. It is to emerge at the end of the period with both a very strong earnings base and a significantly large AI led business. And so you can expect that we will invest that incremental accruals back into the business of where we have very high conviction. So it's a conscious decision that we want to compound today's profitability while investing in the business that can drive tomorrow's growth. Sure. Got it. And upon that one more query, the net revenue has declined around 2% year on year and 1% quarter on quarter.

35:03 Can you give us some things in the favor about the betterment it has to be? Yes. It's this typically first quarter is a slightly low quarter. Second, third quarters are slightly better because of festival seasons and others. And we believe that as more and more transactions happen through our platform, we have slightly compression as far as our margins are concerned. If you look at our take rates, they've compressed slightly and that has impacted our net revenue. But we believe as we build out other opportunities, which is somewhat credit based distribution, many others that we should be able to pick up. And we remain slightly appropriately conservative in terms of how we think through this. But yes, you're right. I think it's a combination of payments being a competitive business second, our aspiration to grow payments and increase the core profitability and pull in volumes and third is we think that with that, we can build out a lot of other revenue streams, which potentially will offset and help us increase our margins in the medium to long term.

36:19 Got it. Mr. Bhai, can I comment Mr? Bhai, I just comment, Dore, what I would also like to add one thing. If you notice, though the net revenue may be a slight flattish or slightly gone down, the EBITDA has gone up by 41%, and the EBITDA percentages have gone with those 47% in y o y in q one FY twenty six is now 68%. So concentration has been on improving the absolute profitability and and the margins there is. It's on the gross revenues and the take rate, not necessarily on net revenue. So that that is a positive part of the entire results. Yeah. That's right. But but but the only only issue is that, like, there's a lot of investment into AI automation and all. That's where the EBITDA margins and all. They're not able to figure out what is the ideal sustainable EBITDA margins going forward, excluding all the.

37:16 The guardrails that you can establish is about 15%. That's why the guardrails, if you ask me. We always want to have guardrails, which is we never wanna go below that certain amount. You know, rather than going into how much EBITDA we can improve and so on and so forth, we want to set up certain guardrails that enable us to ensure that we continue with reinvesting into our future and maintain certain profitability in our core. Right. Sure. It's not a target. It's just a guardrail. Sure. Just a last question. The e commerce platform business was flat last quarter as flat to slightly higher and that I don't know high... On a high high margin revenue. So when was the promised platform's platform AI work would throw in the growth number?

38:04 And what what were the growth of this platform business? So we expect that I mean, we are investing quite a bit in that area and some meaningful results should start showing up in Q3 time frame. So you can expect that maybe some movement will start in the Q3, Q4 time frame for us in that space. Sure. Sure. Thank you so much. Thank you. All the best. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Dinesh Kumar from CCAVENUE Investment. Please proceed. Hello. Am I audible, ma'am? Yes. Hello? I'm audible, sir. I... Yeah. Thank you. Sir, wanted to reflect on what are progress that we have on this IPO timeline, sir. One...

39:00 Second one, and what kind of AI investment or AI infrastructure are we getting for next... Like, you have guided for 2007... 2729. We are focusing on the more of our business. So what kind of AI infrastructure are we building upon, sir? And what kind of returns on net basis we see in EBITDA, EBITDA and at margins are we looking forward? So I'll take the second question. I think, you know, as far as the AI part is concerned, AI is a very large topic. So we want to work only and keep on keeping our head straight in terms of not just investing in AI, but we want to actually make sure that there is a investment in our investing cycle as well. So our thesis in this is that, you know, there is this whole, you know, infrastructure related AI investments, which is not what we want to pursue as far as data centers and so on and so forth is concerned. High... Huge amounts of CapEx and, you know, returns over a period of time.

40:09 So that is not what the company wants to pursue at the moment. You know, we may invest selectively in smaller capacities, but not the large ones. So that's one. As far as, you know, the... We've we've recently, in our, you know, release mentioned that we want to build out transaction intelligence score, you know, and think of it as, in some ways, risk score. It's not a replacement to any of these scores, but it's actually more about how do start with transactions. We have universe of transactions. That is our biggest advantage. We have frequency, transaction value, merchant category, tickets, repeat purchase, refunds, chargebacks, you name it. And, you know, we want to be able to evaluate using AI how does this business behave financially or how does this person behave financially.

41:03 So with... For that, you need to create this whole financial behavior graph, which is build out, you know, graph per person, device bank, accounts merchant transactions, refunds, the whole payment behavior. And once you do that, you can build out certain liability scores. And I think these are the ones which we want to pursue, which is slightly more applied in nature. You can think of it as like a SLM, the small language model. And once you apply them, then there's a monetization because if it's meaningful and it gives you good insights in terms of what... How the merchant or the individual performs, then perhaps there is a there's a score in that. There could also be an identity and a fraud score associated with some things which is meaningful for us. But that gives you, you know, some kind of an indication on how we can monetize on it. And then consented external financial data that can potentially be part of the system with training datasets. So we are building out all these predictive models.

41:57 So you have logistics regression that's really interesting with neural models and graphs and LLMs enhanced with giving you some indication of what is the probability of certain activities. So we think that these kinds of things will be highly interesting, and and we have a huge edge over it because none of the LLMs can actually replicate what we can do. They don't have the data, and they will never have the data as well. And so we think that that becomes a differentiator in our opinion on how we we should differentiate because. And then if you build out guardrails and explain... Explanation layers and create some kind of a version of of what it would look like, then it becomes very meaningful. So so I'm just giving you a perspective of how we think through AI, not necessarily, you know... What we'll not do is we'll not invest into hundreds of megawatts of of data center infrastructure. We may selectively go and invest into smaller data center capabilities.

42:54 And number two, we will work on application layers, SLMs, which potentially enable us to 50%. Assimilate all this information and build out. So that's the thesis that we carry. I hope this helps you and answers your question. Okay. And Yeah. The reason we have seen a multiple package of the UPI on behalf that if you open the go to market, you know, high merchant payment stores combined with Redis consumer ecosystem and national licenses. So the strategy engine output benefit are also going to get some kind of thing. Slightly sorry. I'm not able to hear the question properly. Yeah. I just appreciate.

43:42 Yeah. I see. What... UK MDR bill is one of the points of discussion in the notes about what kind of results or benefits are we expecting from such kind of? See, I'll tell you. I think it's still early days, like Vishwas mentioned. There are certain guidelines that are expected to come in consumer to consumer. There is no MDR. To businesses, there will be an MDR. Have to be ascertained what it will end up looking like. I think that there is a benefit for both CCAVENUE and Rediff Pay if that materializes. The extent to which it will benefit, we don't know. It is also based on a competitive scenario. In other words, there are many large incumbents, many who can actually subsidize payments. So we have to see what is the competitive landscape, what is the regulation end up looking like.

44:35 But one thing we know is that, yes, it will be meaningfully positive. It can't be it's not going to continue pre. Okay. So in the last quarter, we had mentioned that we are targeting some 50 to 500 crores of that. What kind of timeline are we looking for that kind of estimation? And second, sir, promoter hold also. We have not seen a substantial we have not seen a substantial holding, and there is no sign of any increment. Can you just give us a timeline or that sort of when promoters are willing to participate in the run or the pass... Participate in the equity? Please do question, sir. Sure. The promoters are... You know, we're long term investors, so that's what I can tell you. I think whatever material information out there is what is already out there in the open.

45:23 But yes, we are long term as far as the promoters are concerned. In terms of the other question on PAT, I I think one decision that we've... You can count on us is that we are not going to, you know, look at, you know, just spike in in one time setup. We want to have a... I mean, theoretically, it's like a build out. And, you know, our investments in AI and some of the forward looking things, you know, we would rather invest in that and build out long term sustainable vision for the company. So we will not be looking at short term spike in profitability, but we would rather keep on investing in the conscious capital allocation decision. But we want to focus on EPS and make sure that there's countries and we want to keep on investing in our future.

46:23 Three years ago, we had made the call that we want to reach to a billion dollars in revenues. We made that call somewhere in '23, '24, and I think, you know, we are there. And we said in three years, we've reached a billion dollar in revenue. So we've been fortunate to get there. Think now we believe that we want to continue building out and investing into the future. If we don't, then I think we won't have a long term. And we think that generating if we keep that disciplined approach to capital allocation and put cartridge, then we can build out something very meaningful and maximize the three year earnings. So I think not the immediate quarter and the immediate year earnings. We have given guidance of EPS, which you could follow for this year. But we want to look at what the company should look like three years from now, and that is what we want to keep on investing into.

47:15 Yes, sir. And the last question, what are the good things which have you planned out and have been executed or have happened during the previous year, twenty four, twenty five, twenty six? And what are the something that you have planned out which can go well? So can you just mention something which was planned out and which went well and something which is planned out and went... Didn't go the way you wanted it to go? I think key business decision. Yeah. I think we could have expanded internationally more last year. I think given the macroeconomics, it's had an impact. And so I think that we would have liked to be more aggressive in terms of our international growth, something that we'd like to take up this year.

48:04 So that's one. I think, you know, we could... We believe we can do a lot more in the AI setup. You know, we could have made certain, you know, larger investments to get to market and do things faster. We think that, you know, we can still continue doing that. I think lots of things are changing in that. But, again, we think we could have done that better. And third is we should have worked more on ensuring that we can keep on building out the net take rates. And there, the incremental revenue from other activities that we've picked up should somewhat complement what we are doing in terms of going after growth. And so there's a slight latency because a lot of these investments are upfront. So these are the things we think we could have improved.

48:59 What we did well, I think we've done fairly well in growth and actually build out of, you know, some of relief systems and activities and being able to, you know, work on... Get the right folks to build out and also incremental productivity that we get using AI. So I think our disciplined approach is, I think, you know, what worked for us. Okay. So the last one, what's, you know, what kind of our our customer structure? Some of our top five clients contribute how much for the revenue, and are we planning to increase it, or is it getting contracted and distributed more on the remaining apart from the side? So what is the concentration and what kind of diversification or what kind of strategy are we looking towards?

49:48 Our top five or top 10 contributors. Yeah. So you won't see CCAVENUE on on Amazon or some of the large merchants. If you transact online, you'll see it in airlines and a few others, but not on the likes of QuickCommerce and Amazon and others. So we think that going after the larger client base should be of a strategy. We want to go as horizontal as possible. Because when you start thinking about even credit credit scores and many others and such alternative on a thin file merchants, how do you enable... And this transaction is gonna give you a lot more information about them than any other thing. So we think that going going after a larger basis should be our approach as we move forward.

50:41 I think, you know, from, larger clients, I think when we grow internationally, we want to go after large clients. So our domestic approach is slightly different compared to international. In international, because the size and scale of the digital industry is so large, If you look at U. S, most of the transactions are digital in nature. And so I think there we would like to work on those larger clients and larger opportunities. And I think in India also, will always be occasionally good clients that come out of here, which is where if we are able to add value and we are able to grow, then I think we'll certainly but India is super competitive as you can tell. So we think that this thing will continue on. And if you look at the merchant profile, we've actually mentioned several of the marquee clients in one of the slides in our presentation, so you can refer to that as well.

51:39 That is all my side. Thank you, and all the best for the future. Thank you. Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Pramukh from Main Westwari. Please proceed. Hi. So just a small question. How will it be different from Apple Pay or, like, PayPal and The US? Okay. I will take that. Yeah. Yeah. So Apple Pay is more on the customer side on the phone where they tokenize their card and they use to, you know, pay the pay the merchant. So it's just enabling enabling form factor for doing a transaction and where their revenues will coming is from the issuing side of the bank who has issued the cards.

52:32 We are on the acquiring side as far as CCAVENUE is concerned where we onboard merchants and other things. Like, if you have seen in UAE and in India also, have gone live with Apple Pay where we enable the the the integration and the platform and the systems to the merchant to enable them to collect connect their their customers to pay through their Apple Pay. So Apple Pay is on the issuing side, which is just a form factor to enable customers to pay while we are on the acquiring side. So we... As hundreds of different options and different form factor, we do allow Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, and our systems in India and UAE to accept payments on us... On our platform.

53:26 It's clear? Got it. Got it. And another question is on the war side. Like, how is the war impacting our revenues? And what percentage of our group come from increase in the currency appreciation? And what percentage otherwise? See, I think from a macroeconomic perspective, potentially some growth in The Middle East would have been impacted as a result of the macroeconomic impact should have been there. We don't see too much though. It is there for sure.

54:12 But we think that should come back. People are going to pay utility bills and people some travels will be impacted. But other than that, there's a local industry, local commerce, local people, so that should continue on. Anyone who has to pay rent, they have to pay rent and so on and so forth. So internationally, yeah, we operate UAE, Saudi, they're two large entities, areas that we think we can focus on and that would definitely have an impact. But again, like I said, we think it's short term, it is not long term. So that will have some impact. As far as the currency and so on and so forth is concerned, there's no material impact as much. So we don't see that as a material impact yet.

54:59 But we we do believe because, see, I think that we do have aspirations to build out U. S. This year. And that's where we'll see maybe that question slightly becomes slightly more relevant. Got it, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on the good set of numbers. Thank you. Due to time constraints, we take that as the last question for the day and would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir. Thanks all for joining the call, and looking forward to keeping you updated on our progress. Again. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of Go India Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.