Torrent Pharmaceuticals (NSE:TORNTPHARM) Q2 2027 Earnings Call

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 FY 'twenty seven Earnings Conference Call of Torrent Pharma Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference call over to Mr. Sudhir Manal, Executive Director of Finance and CFO. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Good evening, and welcome to quarter two FY 'twenty seven earnings call of Torrent Pharma. Consolidated revenues for quarter two were 4,979 crores, up by 51%, while operating EBITDA at INR $16.66 crores was up by 54%.

0:58 Operating EBITDA margin for the quarter stood at 33.5%. During the quarter, R and D spend increased to 4.2% of the revenue compared to 3.5% in the previous quarter. As highlighted in the previous call, following the merger of J. B. With Torrent Pharma with effect from July 8, we had undertaken business level integration during this quarter. And as guided earlier, there was some transient impact from JV business top line performance during the quarter. During the quarter, the underlying JV business reported revenues of INR $10.86 crores, which was largely flat year on year. JV India branded business grew at 7% for the quarter. International business were down by 7%.

1:45 Torrent based business continued its strong growth momentum with revenues growing 18% for the quarter. The base India business with 20% growth continued to outperform IPM, while Brazil revenues were up 38%. On the generic side, U. S. Delivered strong 24% growth, while Germany revenues were down by 7%. The overall leverage that is net debt to EBITDA now stands at 1.8x. I'll now hand over the call to Aman for an update on India business. Thanks, Sudhir. I'll first talk about the JV integration update. Post the completion of merger in July 2026, we had initiated the next stage of integration activities, which involves merging of divisions and field force in the India business.

2:33 We believe this has been executed well and as per expectations. Despite the nature of integration activities, the India business of JV delivered robust underlying growth, which provides comfort in the long term growth prospects of the business post recovery. JV's international operations saw an impact from, again, the integration around plant network optimization and alignment of manufacturing and quality control systems. This led to postponement of deliveries in some in certain markets, and we see a gradual part of recovery in the subsequent quarters. We believe the impact is transient due to onetime nature of integration requirements, which were unavoidable. The objective here was to harmonize Torrent and JV systems, reduce redundancies and enable long term utilization and gross margin efficiencies.

3:24 On overall cost synergies, we are tracking well ahead of our plan, which can also be seen from the EBITDA margin during this quarter. Sequentially, the JV business EBITDA margins have improved despite the transient impact on sales. Moving on to the base business. Torrent's India revenues for Q2 were 2,181 crores, registering a growth of 20% versus the IPM growth of 12% as per the PharmaTrack data set. The high growth was delivered as a result of an overall increase in IPM growth, new launch performance and volume growth acceleration from field force expansion. The curatio business continued its strong growth trajectory, growing at 34% in Q2 and also in H1, driven by OTC ad spends and fuel force expansion.

4:13 We are hopeful that this business should continue with a similar high growth trajectory for the rest of the year. Our combined field force strength at the end of Q2 for Torrent plus JV, the combined entity is now 9,100 in the India business. On semaglutide, our India franchise recorded Q2 market share of 32% for the oral and injectable combined as per the PharmaTrack data set. For the oral segment, we continue to maintain more than 90% share within the generic players. In the injectable semaglutide segment, following the supply disruption, we were able to onboard a new manufacturing partner and fully restored market supplies by September. Due to being out of the market for nearly two months, we did see some market share loss, minor market share loss in the injectable space.

5:04 However, the September month relaunch and sales recovery provide confidence that a large part of this loss should be recovered in the coming months. Our focus during H2 FY 'twenty seven will be to continue improving our market share in focused therapies, improving field force productivity and expanded divisions and continuing the scale up of the TORNTPHARM business. I'll now hand over to Mr. Sanjay Gupta for the international business. Thanks, Amit. We will start with the branded generics market of Brazil. Based on internal sales, Q2 constant currency revenues were at BRL $236,000,000, registering a 21% year on year growth. IQR data shows Q2 market growth at 5.7% with Torrent growing at 26%. This is aided by the strong performance of our top brands, our recent launches as well as the strong growth in the generics division.

5:55 In Brazil, Torrent has a rich pipeline of 53 molecules under review, and we should be getting we expect approval in the next three years. In The U. S, we registered constant currency revenues of $44,000,000 up by 13%. Growth is coming from our new launches where we have achieved or exceeded our target market share. In Germany, our business registered a constant currency revenue of $26,000,000 down by 13%. The growth continues to be impacted by the loss of high value tenders and disruption at third party suppliers. With that, I would like to conclude the opening comments and open the call up for questions. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two.

6:52 Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Neha Manpuria from Bank of America. My first question is on JV. Given the disruption of the impact on growth because of disruption, if you could give us some color in terms of how we should think about the recovery both in the India business? And also, I think you mentioned some postponement of supplies in certain markets. Would that take slightly longer to recover? Just wondering the flat growth that we have seen, should we continue to see similar trends in the near term or we start seeing improvement here?

7:43 Yes. So on the India side, we had guided in the earlier quarter that this would be the kind of impact that will be estimated. It's been pretty much in line with how Q1 was at 13%, Q2 was at 7%. So it's more or less been as expected, and we think this will recover gradually quarter on quarter from here. So if H1 is at 10% growth for the India branded business, I would expect that H2 should be perhaps higher than that. On the international front, yes, there are definitely some onetime challenges that we faced, and it was part of the integration that we have taken a call to take these decisions. These are all onetime in nature. So while the actions have been taken, the recovery may take slightly longer in the international business.

8:33 But overall, we still feel that in H2, the overall JV growth should be double digit. While India would be higher than double digit, we believe the total JV business growth should recover to double digit in H2. Okay. That's good to know. And my second question is, mentioned cost synergies are running ahead of expectation. I think our estimate was about INR $4.50 crores. It seems like pretty much half of that is already reflected in margins. Would that be a fair assumption? And given that, Sudhir, is there an upside to our cost synergy number that we are expecting over the next three years? Yes, I think you're right when you say we are tracking higher than what we had initially guided.

9:24 And possibly, when you say half of that seems to getting realized in this year, I think it's fair to assume that. And having said that, we believe most of it could come through by the next year. And therefore, do you see upside on from perspective? Can you some of the synergies that you were thinking probably will take up later probably on the revenue side, etcetera? Does that come forward? Or revenue synergies will still take some more time outside of the cost? No, I would think we'll maintain the current synergy view on $4.50 crores. Perhaps next year, if there's a more concrete reason to believe there's further upside, we can comment, say, by Q1, Q2 next year. And revenue synergies will continue to be or rather we believe they should be on track for next year as well on the India business first and then followed by the international.

10:30 Thank you. Next question is from the line of Damayanti Kerai from HSBC. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is again on JV. So you mentioned sequentially, despite the transient impact on the business, it reported higher EBITDA margins. So just wanted to understand what has led that sequential improvement, whether it was more on, say, the gross margin part or it it was more on rationalization of other operating expenses? And how should we look at the JV EBITDA margin in coming quarter? Yes, that's my first question. I would say a large part of it was driven from the field force merger that has taken place.

11:18 So the savings are realized now, though the actions were taken from January. And of course, after the merger also, were further steps taken. So it's largely driven from the India field force divisional merger that has been kind of implemented. And also there has been further improvement in procurement savings as well. So but that's a small part of it overall sequential improvement. So from Q1 to Q2, the biggest component is the field force savings. Got it. And how should we look at the margin trajectory for JV in second half of this year? I would say it should continue gradual improvement as well from here as well.

12:05 Difficult to give an exact number, but directionally, it's already improved substantially from Q4 last year to Q1. And now from Q1 to Q2, it's been more gradual. So I would expect quarter on quarter, the same run rate of EBITDA improvement can continue maybe for the next two, three quarters. Sure. My second question is clarity on your MR headcount after the merger. So you mentioned ninety one nine thousand one hundred. So whether this is a level which we are looking to maintain or there is some more room to optimize this number further? Where do you like to have your MR count in optimum situation? Yes. This year, it will be maintained. So by the end of this financial year, we don't expect any change.

12:54 We will review this maybe in a couple of months. We expect potentially some expansion may be required in the base business. So say maybe by 500 MRs or so. But we're not fully certain on what the next year's picture looks like, but it could be, say, something between 9,500 to 9,600. Got it. And my last question is on your like, overall guidance that you mentioned, 3.5% kind of number we are doing. And should we assume like there is more room to improve from current level? Or it will be more steady considering all the synergies, etcetera, which will come from the merger part?

13:45 So I think there should be a gradual increase in the EBITDA margin. But I think we are not guiding on the number part. But at least definitely, we feel H2 should be a little higher than 30 three point five. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Doctor. Kunal Dhamesha from Macquarie Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for taking my question. The first one on the JV EBITDA margin, which we suggested that there will be continued improvement from here as well for the next two, three quarters. So once that is done, would it be fair to say that J. B. India business profitability would be very similar to Torrent's India business?

14:43 Yes, that would be fair to assume. Torrent's India based business versus JV based business, right? Yes, that's correct. Sure. Sure. And on JV EBITDA margin this quarter, could you quantify the improvement on a sequential basis? That's something that we are not guiding for. Okay. Would it be, like, meaningful, like, the 100 basis point plus or... See, I think there's two data points which I can give one data point which I can give you. Right? I mean, what we've said is the R and D expenses versus quarter one has gone up by 0.7%.

15:34 EBITDA margin was 33.8, and this time it's 33.5. That's one data point which I would like to give you. Having said, the increase in r and d, which has come in quarter two, we believe it will continue for the rest of the quarter as well. Sure. Sure. Sure. Thanks for that. And lastly, on the synergies part, let's say cost synergies or initial guidance will be realized by FY 2028 is what my understanding is what you commented. If I'm wrong, please correct me. But without quantifying beyond let's say, next year, what are some of the levers that you would have identified, which is not part of your $4.50 crore guidance?

16:21 And secondly, you suggested the revenue synergies part for the next year. So if you could quantify the impact of the revenue synergies and some of the products? So nothing incrementally new in terms of buckets that have been identified for cost synergies. Perhaps it's more of a quantum of costs that were estimated before and after where there may be some variation. So that's where we feel it's still premature to comment whether there's any higher scope of cost synergies compared to the four fifty number. But directionally, yes, it's been we've been able to achieve that much faster instead of three years, I think we should be able to get there in two years' time. And any upside to that, I think we'd wait for at least a couple more quarters.

17:14 The revenue synergy side, again, the same view, we believe that the India business, once now the large part of the integration is done, so the revenue synergy should start gradually coming through from cross selling from new territories where JV brands are added to Torrent divisions and so on. These things normally take six to twelve months depending on the brand and the competitive intensity. So I think next year should see a reasonable improvement in the top line growth through revenue synergies. Difficult to quantify at this stage. But if things go as per plan and as we expect them, then I think gradually year on year, there should be acceleration in top line growth in India business.

18:03 And on the international side, it will be a slightly longer journey for that to get achieved because product filings take slightly longer in most markets that we're looking at. So if, say, we're looking at JV territories to add some existing products that we have, those would take, say, two to three years to materialize. So that's why the time lines will be longer. Ladies and gentlemen, before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and 1. We will take our next question from the line of from Capital. Please go ahead. Deal that JD Chem has done with Novartis on the ophthalmology franchise.

18:53 This was done, I think, about couple of years back. To interrupt, mister Binu. Can I repeat your question, please? Hello? Can you hear me well now? Yeah. We can hear you now. Please go ahead. Okay. Just a question on your ophthalmology portfolio deal that JBCAM had done with Novartis couple of years back. Is there any risk to that deal given the changes happening in Novartis India? No, the contract is quite unclear. So doubt there will be that possibility. Okay. And if I remember correctly, there is a second tranche of payment of INR $9.50 crores, $9.60 crores that is pending.

19:39 Would that be due any time soon? That would be in December of this year. Yes, that's right. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nitin Agarwal from Jan Capital. Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my question. Sir, on the increased R and D spend, any and you said this is going be sustainable from here on at these levels. So any new avenues where we say looking to invest larger amounts than before from a priority perspective? No, this is in line with what we had shared earlier that we are looking at increasing our filings in The U. S, which are very low single digits right now to maybe high single digits for some years to kind of recover some of the lost time in the last couple of years due to our operational issues.

20:33 So in that sense, it's more of a temporary spend that would be required for a couple of years, two to three years. But in percentage spends right now, this quarter is about 4.2% of revenues. We believe that the range should not exceed, say, between 4% to 4.5% even in the following year. Got it. And then secondly, on the export business, Brazil business has done well, Germany still struggled. Any more color that you're going provide us in terms of the outlook for these two markets? So Brazil, we are optimistic. It will continue to grow double digit mid teens or something in that range because we have strong momentum from our new launches as well as from our other businesses. So we have four business units in Brazil, cardio and diabetes, CNS, generics and non retail. So all four business units seem to be doing well. So again, a high level of optimism on Brazil.

21:39 On Germany, I would say that we are struggling because there's been quite a lot of factors which have impacted us from supply related issues to government mandated price decreases, which have severely impacted our non retail business, which is so I really cannot say or give guidance today. Best case, I would say slight decline in the coming quarters and eventually some stability after maybe three or four quarters. Okay. And then on the other markets, the other markets or the non Brazilian branded markets, mean, how... Any broad color on how last three, four quarters, any meaningful changes in the size, scale of business in any of these businesses?

22:29 Yeah. So the rest of the world markets for us are examples of Philippines, Mexico, Russia, South Africa now. All these markets are growing high single digit or double digit. So we we have a we have a... I mean, underlying business is pretty strong in ROW market. So let's say, conservatively, you can take 6% to 9% growth, not GB total. And then lastly, any color on the GLP launch, summer launches in Brazil? I mean, where are we in terms of what the time line, if we are outlook on approvals and launches? So there is one true generic launch in Brazil, which is by a local very large player. It's been three months since they've launched, they've activated the growth of the market.

23:17 Optimistically, we expect to launch in the next six to nine months. Thank you. Next question is from the line of from Nomura. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. Thank you for taking my question. Can you share how large Qasho is now as part of your domestic business? Because it's been growing pretty rapidly since you've acquired. Can you give some color? And how should we think about the growth here given all the initiatives going ahead, please? I think this should be now between, say, seven to 8% of the total base India business without JV.

24:08 When we acquired it, it was about, I think, 4% to 5% contribution. So the contribution of Curatio portfolio has increased quite a bit in the last two, three years. And from where things are and the kind of strength that the brands have developed over the last couple of years through the additional marketing impetus, I think it should be possible to sustain high growth for at least a couple of years. It's difficult to say what range, but whether 30% growth can be sustained beyond, say, three to five years, that's difficult to say. But definitely, it seems that this is a trend, which is I mean, the demand is real and the trend is likely to continue for the foreseeable future.

24:57 Great. Thank you. And my other question was on The U. S. We have seen some improvement with new product launches. How do you see the outlook? I think last time you mentioned there are not many large high value launches. If you can just update on that for this year and next year at least? And any comment you would like to make on pricing environment, market dynamics in general? On the second part of your question, no major change in U. S. Market dynamics. It continues before. We've had a few good launches in The U. S. So we and our market share, especially in consult in IQVIA are actually above our expectations. So which is why we are showing high rates of growth.

25:45 The good part is that our filings are so far improved in The U. S. Year to date we filed already four products, and we think we can file four to five at least more before this fiscal year ends. So there is optimism in terms of new product launches. I cannot give you color on the scale of these new launches. It will depend upon the number of competitors when these come to market. But they would keep up the momentum of new product launches, which is the most important factor for U. S. Growth. I expect some new competitors on our recent launches in H2. So there would be a pricing pressure increase in H2, which is not atypical in The U. S. Market, right? So there's always new people coming with existing molecules and it leads to price erosion. But price erosion accompanied by volume growth and new launches should keep us in the positive territory as far as growth is concerned.

26:45 Thank you. Next question is from the line of Tushar Manudhani from Motilalu Sval Financial Services Limited. Please go ahead. Sir, thanks for the opportunity. Sir, firstly, on semaglutide industry outlook, how do you see the growth in this molecule at industry level? So I think it's been stabilized now the demand levels of generic semaglutide. I think what I recall is that we had estimated a market size of generic semis somewhere around INR 800 crores for the first year. So it seems that it's on track to get there. And then after that, it should be in line with some of the earlier new launches, how they have grown, which is a very high growth in the first couple of years of the market, followed by stabilization in, say, third or fourth year. If you just take the past reference of, say, citalopin, where there is a shift happening from, say, an earlier gen molecule to something new, which is what we expect to happen here as well.

27:53 So it's, again, still very early to say what the market size may appear to be in five years or four to five years' time. But there's definitely a lot more room for market expansion from here as well. So even if it grows, let's say, by 25%, let's say, next year, it's like 1,000 and then growth further lowering down. So broadly 2,000, 2,500 sort of a market is what you're expecting over next three to four years. Is that right understanding? Yes, that should be possible. At least three to five years, that number is not out of range. So secondly, on the India industry itself, the IPM growth has been on uptrend, U. And U. S. IGs, we estimated base effect of the past year.

28:47 How do you read this industry growth? And what do you think the growth would be for, let's say, next twelve to fifteen months at the industry level? Definitely, H1 this year has been far higher market growth than what we have seen in the couple of preceding years. 12% is the market growth this year so far. We think this market growth is likely to sustain for the rest of the year. And perhaps from next year, it may drop a little bit, say, 1%, 2%, but minimum 10% is what we think should continue from here on as well, at least for the next financial year. This year, maybe potentially a one off case and increase in IPM growth to this extent. But below 10% is, in our view, I mean, it's not looking likely at this stage.

29:38 And this is relatively much better compared to earlier years. So any factors you would like to call out, which would drive this higher growth for the industry? I think it's very difficult to pinpoint still. I mean, in our case, there are multiple factors that are also contributing to our growth like similar launch and field force expansion. So a large part of our growth difference can be explained through those, but what is causing the higher, say, 23% market delta is still difficult to pinpoint exactly. Okay. Okay. And thirdly, just on Brazil, like how much of the growth in the 2Q would have come from new launches and how much from existing banks, the breakdown growth of 20%?

30:27 Correct. So broadly speaking, it's one third, one third, one third. One third on price, one third on volume and one third on new launches. Got it. And just lastly, any new products that have been launched in the OTC segment and you see the scale up happening the way we've seen the center? Yes. There are many brand extensions launched in the OTC space, which are, I would say reasonable in size, they're not very big, but the idea is to launch multiple of these where we can create a sizable base in two, three years. So those are always part of new product planning part of the OTC business.

31:14 Has there been any completely new product launch, which is not an extension, probably not in the last six to eight months. I believe these are spaces where entering completely new is very challenging. So we do keep a lookout for acquisitions wherever possible to bolt on to our OTC platform. Got it. And just lastly, if I may, with respect to the marketing expense within India for OTC and for prescription, any broad breakdown you could give either as a percentage of total spend or absolute, whichever is coming. Oh, for sure. We don't have the numbers separately, please. Okay, sir. That's it for me, sir. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Thank you.

32:01 Next question is from the line of Niharika Virwal from. Please go ahead. Hello. Thank you for the opportunity. So I wanted to understand about the 13% constant currency growth we saw in The U. S. How much of this growth is coming from the products with durable competitive advantage versus products where the price erosion could accelerate as competition enters? Unfortunately, I don't know how to answer that question because there's a... In the off patent business, there's no thing as a durable competitive advantage. So it's really depends upon the number of competitors and how quickly they come to market.

32:50 And new customers are very finite, right, because we operate in the retail channel with three customers or four customers are calling for 90% of the market. So any new player has to call upon the same customers. And usually, the way to penetrate is to offer a better price. Hence, I would say that I'm not sure how to tell you what is a durable competitive advantage generic product in The U. S. However, that said, we are constantly working on improving our costs. And that is one way in which we are able to maintain a base business. And our base business generally has been flat. The growth is coming from new products, but our base business, the price and the volume, etcetera, kind of neutralize each other. And I'd say, I would say it's decent result for mature products. So could we see this growth rate sustaining going forward? Or as the launches normalize, we will see some moderation?

33:52 So we have new launches planned. But again, when we forecast new launches revenue, we build scenarios based on the number of competitors. And then honestly, we launch, we are not 100% sure as to how many people show up at the opening. What I said earlier in the call is that we so far year to date already filed four products in The U. S. And then we think you can file at least four to five more for the remaining of this fiscal year. These, let's say, nine, 10 products would be higher than what we have filed in each of the in several previous years. Hence, this kind of gives me a positive optimism for future growth. Okay. And then just one quick question on CEMA. So as the competition is increasing, you know, what what matters more for your economics?

34:43 Like, will we focus more towards defending our market share, or will we focus on maintaining realization per patient? And then on the share as well, like, we expect to sustain the share even as profitability per unit declines? So this is I assume about the India business. So we've launched a semi only in India so far. And our objective would be to endeavor to expand the market as much as possible. So that would also mean that we would need to defend our share at the same time. So and I think we're seeing good traction there on that front in the last couple of months.

35:31 I don't think there'll be any change in pricing per patient or pricing per product because these are all branded businesses. So there's no real price erosion in that sense. And in fact, the price would only be stable or gradually increase over the next couple of years. Okay. Thank you. And then just one last question on the Brazil business. So we have approximately 53 products, right, that are meeting ANVISA approval. So, you know, how meaningful could these launches be to growth over next two years per se? And what kind of growth can we expect for this geography? Any rough number? Yes. I think we have said that it should be at least superior to 10%, closer to 15% growth in the coming years.

36:26 Okay. And what is the key constraint for this geography? Would you say approval time lines or commercial execution? Like what is the key challenge over your I would say both because approval time lines and these are taking at least two years. So that's a long process. And then in terms of commercial challenges, of course, we are competing with at least a very strong local companies who are entrenched in the Brazilian market with a much larger field force print than we have. And there also has started to be a trend in the last two, three years about price competition, which was historically quite benign, but it has become much more, I would say, aggressive and competitive in the last two, three years. That makes sense. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. This is all for me.

37:16 Thank you. Next question is from the line of Madhav Malta from MLP. Please go ahead. Hi. Good evening. I just had one question. So that combined business, including India India Torrent based business and JV Chemicals, could you give any outlook on the EBITDA margin over the next maybe two to three years given, you know, JV has your portfolio savings, etcetera, lined up. So if you could just share on the basis and including JV, how that would be? Thank you. So as a policy, we don't share geography wise EBITDA. No, just combined with this, any outlook on the EBITDA margins from 33.5%, how that could track over the next two, three years? That's what I called out earlier that quarter two, 33.5.

38:07 For rest of the two quarters, it can improve a little bit for this year. Okay. Okay. And for FY '28 and '29, is there any outlook? How could... Like, do you see any improvement measures planned on? No. We're not giving any guidance for FY '28. Okay. Okay. We are just waiting for the full year base to come in. And then probably next year, quarter one, we'll guide. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Next question is from the line of Doctor. Kunal Dhamesha from Macquarie Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the follow-up. On JB's international business disruption, could you localize in which segment the disruption was maximum? Was it ROW?

38:57 Was it US? Was it CDMA? So JB international business, I would say the disruption, if I was to say, it was across the board because it was linked to issues which are not particular or clear to any one geography. So it was linked to issues like software integration, accounting integration, change of merger of the companies, change of processes. And then you will also recall, we had some quality issues linked to one product in The U. S. For which we had a recall. So it was, I would say, outside of The U. S. Recall, it was generalized across geographies. So I won't point the finger towards one more than the other. We're talking about back office issues. We're not talking about front office customer facing issues. Sure.

39:42 Sure. Second question on when 've given out the some outlook on Indian pharma market that this strong growth would continue. But what has caused this sudden spike? Let's say, if I look at GLP-one, I think the impact would be probably not be more than 100 basis points in terms of growth acceleration, right? So is it a shift from market share shift happening some of the smaller companies which were earlier operating, they are not operating anymore or the focus from other players on trade generic has gone down or Jan Usha, there is less friction.

40:28 What is driving this sudden spike? That's exactly the question that was asked earlier, but we are not too sure on how to pinpoint or break up the spike in IP and growth by, say, this 23% difference this year. It could be a factor of all of these, as you mentioned. But one indication, at least, that we have is that our trade generic business has not really slowed down materially. So our business is pretty small right now. But if that was some indication, we would have got a sense through that. So it's not really the trade generic that's slowing down and shifting to brands either. It seems that both segments are growing. But again, because of so many factors at play, it's difficult to pinpoint. What we did mention is that we believe perhaps it may not be able to continue next year, but certainly, our view is that it should not go below double digits, the IPN growth.

41:29 Thank Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions from the participants, I would now like to hand it back to the management for closing comments. Thank you for participating today. With that, we conclude today's call. Thank you. Thank you very much. On behalf of Torrent Pharma Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us today, and you may now disconnect your lines.