M.P. Evans Group (LSE:MPE) — Interim Results

0:00 Good afternoon, and welcome to the MPEvans Group PLC interim results investor presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time via the q and a tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it is appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to Chairman, Peter Hadley Chaplin. Good afternoon,

0:32 sir. Thank you, Lily, and good afternoon to everyone. Thank you very much for joining us today following the release of our interim results for the first half of twenty twenty three, which were released to the market yesterday. So we're pleased to be making the presentation today. There's myself Peter, Headsley Chapman, Chairman, Matthew Coulson, Chief Executive, and Luke Shaw, our Chief Financial Officer. So let's go straight into the into the presentation itself,

1:11 moving to the first slide. And, of course, as many of you, I'm sure, are aware, this year, we've been celebrating a hundred and fifty years, no mean achievement, of MPEvans' history, which we're very proud to be doing. And indeed, many of our shareholders were able to attend at the celebration that we held following the AGM, at the Mansion House. So, I do hope some of you, tuning in today were were there. It was a great success, not least because it also gave the opportunity to meet, a number of our Indonesian team. There were some 15 members of the, Indonesian team over, and it was lovely for them to have the opportunity to meet, our shareholders and to get a flavor of how things work, in The UK.

2:07 So in terms of who we are, we these days, having had a history in various forms of tropical agriculture, but these days, we are very much a producer of sustainable Indonesian palm oil. We've grown substantially in the last number of years following our growth strategy. We employ towards 12,000 people, And we now, following the acquisitions announced earlier this year, either own or manage on behalf of our scheme smallholders nearly 57,000 hectares of planted sustainable oil palm areas. We're extremely pleased that at the end of last week, we announced an agreement to acquire a further 8,350 planted hectares in East Kalimantan, and we'll talk more about this in a short while. But we're delighted with this agreement that was recently reached.

3:10 Something also we're pleased to have published actually at the same time as our results released yesterday is our so called TCFD report, which covers carbon emissions and about which Matthew will be telling you also in a short while. You can see the location of our estates on the map. The red dots are are wholly owned interests, and the two red dots sorry, the two blue dots are are associated interests. The one in Malaysia is 40% held Bertham properties project, which is a township, which is not largely developed out now. Let's move to the next slide.

3:57 These are our four strategic pillars, if you like, responsibility, excellence, growth, and yield, and responsibility being the most important. We've been members of the RSPO, the Roundtable on Sustainable Palmol, pretty much since its inception in 2003. Clearly, we we we never engage in deforestation or we have a zero burning, a zero waste policy. And then on the social side of things, we provide excellent quality housing and other community facilities to our staff. And the responsibility side feeds into the excellence side. We invest for the longer term, and by investing in good quality assets that helps to attract the best quality people. And by attracting the best quality people, that helps us to deliver high yields and high extraction rates.

4:55 And this leads through into our growth strategy where, by having the best quality agronomic team and other parts to our team, we can achieve ever improving yields, but the yields are also improving as our palms continue to mature. As you'll know, we have a relatively young age profile, so our yields are naturally improving, but we're striving always continuously to improve the quality of our operations and hence our yields. But in additional in addition, growth comes from our recent acquisition of the area close to Sinpanquiri and of the very recently announced acquisition of a substantial area towards 20% growth, if you like, on the assets which we already held.

5:51 So this will give us significantly greater growth in the years to come. And feeding through to the next of our four pillars into the the into that of yield, and by this, we mean shareholder yield, returns to shareholders, to note on this particular slide that we returned $25,000,000 to shareholders in the first half either by way of dividends or share buybacks. Next slide. There's just a photographic pictorial reminder of the events not only at the Mansion House celebrating our one hundred and fifty year anniversary, but also in Jakarta where there were celebrations held with the team there, and there were further celebrations which the Board, the entire Board visited both Jakarta and our Boomi Mass project where there were further celebrations held there.

6:56 Just a brief flowchart summary of our results, which Matthew and Luke will elaborate on. But for the first half, a slight increase in both total crop processed and in total crude palm oil production, a decrease in the crude palm oil price from the stratospheric levels that it reached for reasons which I'm sure you're aware of, but Matt Matthew will also elaborate on in the first half of last year, a pleasing increase in our certified sustainable palm oil production, an increase in our cost for the first half, which Luke will talk about, because of the decrease in price and the increase in costs, a consequent reduction in earnings to approximately 25p per share of our earnings per share, but we're pleased to maintain our interim dividend at 12.5p per share.

8:03 A note on our increasing hectareage following the recent acquisition announcement and very pleasingly, a significant increase as a result of seasonal factors in our monthly crops for the first two months of the second half, which, again, Matthew will talk about more shortly. So at this point, perhaps I can hand over to, to Matthew to talk initially about the palm oil market. Great. Yes. Thank you, Peter. So first of all, to think about the palm oil market itself before we get into a little bit more detail about our own operations. First of all, it's important to emphasize the fact that palm oil sits within the wider vegetable oil market globally, and and and palm oil indeed is the is the largest individual component of the world's vegetable oil market. And in fact, it is a a a growing component of that growing market.

9:03 So palm oil continues to take a larger share and, in fact, makes up something like two fifths of the world's vegetable oil market. Certainly, when you consider palm in conjunction with palm kernel oil, the the two products which come together from from the from the palm. And interestingly, of course, palm is is a permanent tree crop. So unlike the the other major vegetable oils, which are all annual crops, palm is a permanent tree crop, and that that's one of the reasons why palm, by comparison to all of those annual crops, is actually substantially more productive. And palm is actually of the major vegetable oils, the most productive of the world's major vegetable oils, certainly when you think about it in relation to land usage.

9:58 When you look at the statistics, it's really quite remarkable. Palm, on average, will produce more than three tons of of oil per hectare of land used per annum. And that compares to the other major vegetable oils, which will produce, you know, less than a ton of oil per hectare of land used per annum. In fact, substantially less than a ton, more like half a ton of oil per hectare of land used. And and palm done well, we'll we'll do more than three. It'll do significantly more than three. And if we look at our own statistics in 2022, we did more than five tons of oil per hectare of of land used. So you can see how we're performing compared to the other oils and indeed compared to the palm on average.

10:51 So we're very pleased to be able to report that. We want to continue to push up that statistic and move, you know, from five and fight our way towards six even as our yields continue to increase and as we continue to put more and more of our own crop through our own milling facilities. Looking at the price environment and looking particularly at the the chart, which really tells the whole story, inevitably, in 2023, certainly in the first half of the year, we were going to see a price reduction because, of course, the price environment in the first half of twenty twenty two was really quite extraordinary given what was going on in the wider world, given world events, which had affected, you know, commodity prices, vegetable oil prices, and certainly the the price for for palm oil.

11:41 So our average mill gate price in the first half of this year was just over $750 a ton. Yes. That's down 27% year to year comparison. But give given how extraordinary 2022 was, it's important to think about things in the longer term context. And, certainly, if we look at the long term average, getting $7.55 is still a very robust, a very healthy price, and certainly longer that's higher than that long term average price that we've experienced. We continue to see healthy pricing as we move through into the second half of this year. And it's important also to say that from the second half of twenty the latter part of twenty two through the first half of twenty three and moving into the second half of twenty twenty three, we've seen a very stable underlying tax and levy structure in Indonesia, which is very encouraging to be able to report. Obviously, there were a number of changes in the first half, but we see a very stable environment here for we're getting on for a year now in Indonesia with that tax levy structure.

12:59 Moving on and thinking a little bit about sustainable palm oil in a bit more detail, obviously, focusing on our our commitments to being a responsible producer of sustainable palm oil. I'm sure many of you here today have heard a lot about this before, but focusing on how we continue to move forward, we're absolutely focused on increasing the information we share with with shareholders, with other stakeholders around our commitments on sustainability. So as Peter's already mentioned, we published our first stand alone TCFD carbon reporting document yesterday alongside the interim report, and there'll be more to follow later this year on broader ESG matters. And we'll we'll talk a little bit more about carbon in a moment.

13:46 But importantly, alongside that, we continue to increase the volume of certified sustainable production that comes out of our group mills. So almost a 100,000 tons of certified sustainable palm oil produced in the first half of this year, which is fantastic to be able to report. And we continue to get a significant amount of income just from the sustainability premiums over and above the income we receive from selling our output. So over $3,000,000 of income from those sustainability premiums in the first half of this year. But I'd like to just take a moment to focus specifically on our carbon reporting we published yesterday. So as I say, we published our first TCFD report, and it sets out where we are in terms of our our carbon emissions, what we call our carbon balance sheet, setting out exactly all the different components relating to the carbon emissions from all of our operations, both direct and indirect.

14:52 And we set out a baseline year for our carbon emissions and our carbon balance sheet of 2021 and how we want to move forward in there, how we want to work hard on carbon reduction, setting ourselves targets, and ultimately working towards net zero. Importantly, from our baseline year, we've already received we've already achieved our first step forward from '21 to '22 and delivered a 12% reduction in our total emissions.

15:23 That really comes from continuing to bring processing of our crop in house, so processing more and more of our crop in our efficient group mills. Obviously, in 2022, we opened but for us, mill number five, so we opened, you know, an an an additional mill in 2022. But importantly, in 2023, we opened mill number six. So we opened our mill in Musirawas in South Sumatra. So we expect we will see another step forward when we when we collect up and measure all of our carbon data by 2023. So we look forward to delivering another step forward in 2023.

16:11 But we want to think about what else we can do to work towards our carbon reduction targets, whether it's around carbon sequestration projects, whether it's around other zero waste concept projects that we're working on, or importantly, how we can work with others outside of our direct emissions and thinking about our indirect emissions because as well as measuring, you know, what we're directly responsible within our own operations, so we're obliged to measure our indirect emissions as well. So things that come, you know, all the way along the value chain, so whether it's suppliers, whether it's customers. And importantly, quite a significant amount of our total emissions actually come from the onward processing of our CPO, so what goes on after we sell to our customers, particularly in the refining of CPO.

17:03 So we're starting to develop deeper relationships with our customers and understand what their approach is to their own carbon journey, their own carbon reductions, and that's something we want to work harder on, look at how we can work very closely with our refining customers.

17:24 Moving on, just a word about how we're continuing to enhance our group operations. I think the key thing you know, this is, I know, quite a busy slide with lots of arrows going in different directions, but it the the key thing to really take away from this slide is is is is the piece that goes straight across the middle where we're focused on crop from group managed areas going into group owned mills leading to group production. That's our strategic focus, and that's what we want to continue doing more and more of. So making sure that the vast majority of what comes from our group managed areas gets processed in group mills. And you can see now that we have six group mills, 94% of the crop that we harvest gets processed in group mills, which is fantastic. So only 6% gets sent out to external mills for processing.

18:24 Yes. We then supply yeah. We we we yeah. We have surplus capacity in some of those mills, which means that we bring in a crop from independent suppliers. What we want to do is increase our group managed hectorage so we gradually reduce our reliance on crop coming in from independent suppliers. And, of course, we've taken a step forward during the course of this year by buying new hectorage and just announcing we're buying even more new hectorage to support that ambition. And then, of course, we will continue to do better and better by going straight across the middle of this slide with group managed crop, group mills, and group production. Now at this stage, we should we should move on and discuss, our continuing focus on cost of production.

19:12 At this point, I'll pass over to Luke to discuss that. Thanks, Matthew. Yes. I think it's worth spending a bit of time just explaining some of the movements that we've seen in our cost cost per tonne. So as a reminder, we we look at two metrics when it comes to cost per ton. We look at the cost to produce our own crop and and also the cost to produce our own crop plus that that we buy in from independent suppliers. So the the graphic at the top of this slide and the numbers on the left hand side refer to, the cost of our own crop. And the bottom bar, shows you a split of the $425, cost per ton for the first half of twenty twenty two.

19:59 You'll see that there is a a blue bar there or blue part of that bar, is is sort of representing 15%. If you then step up to the next line, which is the cost per ton for the second half of twenty twenty two, you can see that that blue proportion has, enlarged. And that's really one of the main factors that's driving our, increasing cost per ton is to do with fertilizer costs. So we saw fertilizer costs increase, for similar reasons that we saw the CPO price increase sort of around q two, last year or March last year. And those fertilizer costs, we were a bit protected in the first half of twenty twenty two last year because we had already purchased our fertilizer for application in the first half at the end of twenty twenty one.

20:52 Whereas in the second half of twenty twenty two, we had purchased fertilizer at that higher price environment, and that started to impact the, financials in the second half of twenty twenty two. That has continued into 2023 and into the first half. Again, we purchased fertilizer for application in the first half of twenty twenty three towards the end of twenty twenty two, and that started to hit the p and l through the first half. And you can see again that blue proportion has got, you know, even larger. So of the increasing cost per ton from the first half of twenty two, of 425 to 535 for the first half of twenty twenty three, of that $110, approximately $50 is a portion to that increase in fertilizer pricing.

21:42 The second element of that 110 is really to do with the production levels in the first half. They're slightly down on what we saw in the first half of twenty twenty two, and that is in relation to some crop phasing. So typically, we see a stronger crop in the second half of the year. But in 2023, we've we've seen actually even a little bit more phase into that second half. So rather than maybe a forty eight fifty two split that we've seen historically, that might be slightly different, this year, maybe at 46, 54, 45, 55. So that's something that that we're looking at when it comes to crop levels. And that has meant that in the first half, that's increased the unit cost as we've

22:26 had less production to spread our fixed cost base over. So that accounts for about $50 as well. So of that 110, they're the two main factors that have, caused that increase. Now the the good news is is that we are seeing fertilizer pricing come down, and we've started to see that come down through the first half of twenty twenty three. And we've now secured our fertilizer for application in the second half, and that was secured at much lower prices than we'd seen in in the back half of twenty two and the first half of twenty three. So that's something that we look forward to seeing the benefit of hit our p and l in the second half. And also, the higher production in in the second half would then help to lower those unit costs. And we've seen, as Peter's already alluded to, we saw a really strong start to h two on crop for the first two months. So as that hopefully continues during the second half, that will start to bring that unit cost back down.

23:26 And last year's full year cost per ton for our own crops was just over $400 at $404. So we are hoping by the end of the year, we'll that five three five number will become much more comparable to that 404 that we saw for the full year in 2022. So go to the next slide, please, Matthew. So if we just kinda dig into the numbers a little bit deeper. So revenue of 134,500,000, so that's down on the same period in 2022. But, really, that lower price environment, that 2027% price environment for, has really contributed to that revenue number dropping.

24:13 And but the sustainability premium number has stayed relatively steady at 3,200,000 versus 3,300,000 last year. And and we've also seen an increase in our palm kernel sustainability premium that's being charged. That at the moment is over a $100 per ton, and that actually now represents quite a significant chunk when you compare it to the price of the underlying commodity, which is more 3 to $400. So that's something that has contributed to that sustainability premium sort of staying around about the same level as last year. But the drop in revenue and that cost pressure that we're seeing, particularly from fertilizer, has resulted in a gross margin reduction to 17% and an overall gross profit in the first half of 23,000,000.

25:01 And but with as I said, we on the cost slide, some of those factors will start to unwind, we hope, in the second half and start to bring the margin in the second half up, back above the 20% level. The other metric we will look at on cost, just touching on that, is the cost the total cost of production. So that's actually come down slightly to $574 per ton from 598. And and the main contributing factor there is the FFB that we buy in, the fresh fruit bunches from independent suppliers, that has cost less this year than it did in the first half in twenty twenty two, considerably less. And that's because that raw material, as it were, is linked to the

25:44 CPO price. So as that CPO price comes down, the commodity price comes down, so too does the cost of the inputs. And as a result, we have benefited from seeing a a slightly lower cost of total production. And still, the gross profit number has dropped through to an earnings per share of just under 25 p, as Peter said, 24.8p, and we're delighted to announce that we have maintained our interim dividend for 2023 for the first half at 12.5 p, so at the same level as for the first half in 2022. And, again, very much reaffirms the company's commitment to its progressive dividend policy of May either maintaining or trying to increase dividends where possible.

26:32 Go to the next slide, please, Matthew. Just take a quick look at the balance sheet and and cash. So the group continues to be cash generative. Operating cash in the first half of 35,000,000, down from last year, but again, to that price environment factor. But the operating cash conversion is still really strong at a 150%. And then we've we've used that cash that we've generated to continue to invest into the business. Now the CapEx number that's quoted here of 23,800,000 does look quite an increase on last year's first half of 13,900,000, and that's because it's slightly masked by the fact that the acquisition we made in Simpang Kiri

27:15 in the first half of this year has been classified as an asset acquisition. And as such, if you stripped the net consideration paid of 11,000,000 out of the 23.8, you end up with a 12,800,000 number for CapEx in the first half, which is much more comparable to the 13,900,000 that we saw in 2022.

27:38 The balance sheet remains very robust. Net assets of just under 500,000,000 at GBP $480,000,000. We had just over GBP 42,000,000 or just under GBP 43,000,000, I should say, of cash at the end of the first half with borrowings of just over GBP 40,000,000. So still a net cash surplus at the end of h one. And we haven't drawn down on some facilities that are continuing to be available to us as we have that cash position. And we'll talk a little bit more about the acquisition we, or the agreement that we

28:10 have made to, acquire some further hectare in East Kalimantan. And clearly, that will have an impact on on our cash, but that's something that is post, first half. And and as well as putting our cash into capital, investment and into the business, we continue to give that back to shareholders, 25,000,000 of cash deployed in the first half in the form of dividends and in share buybacks. And we're delighted to announce yesterday that we're continuing our share buyback program for the remainder

28:42 of the year in a very consistent manner to that we have, to that that we've been doing already, another tranche of £2,000,000 for the remaining part of the year. Next for me, please. Thank you. And then and then finally for me, just sort of touching on on the dividend, this is a a graph that most people are probably very familiar with and really accentuates that increase in dividends, particularly over the last six to seven, years as the strategic

29:12 decision, back at the early two thousand starts to literally pay dividends. And we had a total normal dividend in twenty twenty two of forty two point five p. And as I've said already, we're maintaining our interim dividend for 2023 at that 12 and a half p level. And this is a record that the group has had for a long time, both for thirty years, and it's something that, the executive team and the board take very seriously and something we're very proud of and would look to continue

29:43 as we move through future years. So I'll just hand back to Matthew now, who will give a little bit of an overview in terms of the outlook as we move into the second half. Fantastic. Thank you, Luke. So I think as we sit here today, we would say that the outlook looks extremely positive both the second half of this year and indeed, you know, looking to the longer term as well. And as we look at the second half of twenty twenty three, we're very pleased to be able to report that increase in cropping levels is really coming through strongly,

30:18 has done over the last few months. So we've seen a real step up in in crop levels in July and August moving into September, and you get a sense of that from the figures in the in in the chart here and in the slide rather. And so crop from group managed areas, so our own areas and those we manage on behalf of our schemes up

30:43 to just under a 120,000 tons per month for the last couple of months, which is substantially higher than the average for the first half of the year. And it means that we're now, in terms of total crop processed, over a million tonnes to the end of August, notably ahead at the same point in 2022. And there's a sense of real momentum terms of crop levels as we move through the second half of the year. Of course, we already mentioned how how pricing remains robust,

31:18 very much stable pricing environment moving through the second half of the year. And then, of course, as we look to the longer term, of course, we're very excited about the new hectare that's going to be coming into the group and the benefits we will be accruing from that new hectare. Of course, that's not the end of the story.

31:37 We're very much open to looking at new opportunities as well. We've said for a long time that our priority is to look at opportunities to acquire strategically appropriate hectorage for us to those hectares that are that are near to and complementary to our existing operations. And that's exactly what we've done, both earlier in the year at Simpangiri, acquiring the additional hectorage there. And and now in East Kalimantan with with the benefit of having a a hectare there, significant part of which will then supply crop to our Kotterbang and milling facilities. And there's more opportunities that we can look at to do to do more of the same, whether it's additional hectare that may that may benefit, for example, our project, indeed, potentially even more hectare supporting our Kotabang project.

32:37 It further hectare potentially at at Tinpanciri that will really make it extremely clear in terms of the benefits of building a mill there. There there are so many opportunities that we can look at to continue on that on that growth story. So we're very excited about continuing to pursue those those potential opportunities. And, of course, I hope the message is is, you know, is is extremely clear as to our responsibility credentials. It's something that's absolutely central to everything we

33:07 do. At the TCFD report that we just published, you know, makes that extremely clear, and there'll be more coming from us, yeah, over the course of the remainder of 2023 on this when we publish our ESG report. So that's where we stand just now. I know there are number of questions have been coming in while we've been talking, So perhaps we can take some time now to address those questions. Peter, Matthew, Luke, thank you very much for your presentation this afternoon. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the Q and A tab situated on the top right hand corner of your screen. Just while the company take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I'd like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via investor dashboard. As you can see, we have received a number of questions throughout today's presentation. I please ask you to read out the questions and give responses where appropriate to do so, and I'll pick up from you at the end.

34:02 Lovely. Thank you very much, Lily. Thank you so much for, so many questions. Good to see so much interest in in the company's activities and operations. We'll we'll I think we'll make sure that 01:00 is the absolute cutoff time, but we have twenty five minutes. So we'll try and deal with all the questions that come in within the next twenty five minutes. So starting with the first question, what is the next step for the company in reflecting the NAV, the net asset value in the share price?

34:39 Is it a focus on buyback or long term dividends? I mean, first of all, I would say that, ultimately, we obviously can't control what the share price is in the market. And, really, what we want to focus on is operating the best possible way in the company's long term interest, and we shouldn't sort of artificially skew anything in order to try and make the share price rise. We would hope that will happen of its own accord as more interest comes into the share price as there's more realization of the excellent operations and the company's generally excellent performance. So basically, focusing on excellent operations, on increasing yields, on growth.

35:32 And then in terms of the focus on buyback or long term or dividends, I think we will continue to adopt a responsible approach to both or responsible and sensible approach to both share buybacks to to dividends, which we've already made clear we want to progress as we have done for the last thirty years and coupled with also growth. So that that would be our three way allocation of our of our capital in in the future. Moving to the next question. Please, can you explain how you calculate your cost of production? For example, whether you take into account debt, interest, etcetera.

36:20 And can you state whether you monitor the costs of production of your peers in the sector? Luke, do you want to Yeah. Sure. Tackle that one? So so answering the question, we we don't include interest in our cost production. It's very much a operational focused metric. So it's effectively everything that goes into cost of sales that would be calculated in that cost of production. So it does include depreciation, which is, obviously, a noncash cost, but everything else associated with that cost of production and and cost of operations out in Indonesia is factored into that cost of production figure that we provide. Again, it's in two, yeah, two metrics, the cost production for our own crop, and then secondly, the cost of production for our own crop plus that that we buy in.

37:15 And in and in terms of manager or monitoring ourselves, I should say, against peers, yes, we do. We have very good relationships with our peers in in in the market, in particular, those European based peers as well. And and we regularly get together to discuss trends, looking at metrics that published, are and we will discuss them. And we very much do look at how we are trending versus some of our peers in the marketplace. If if if I may add a couple of very brief points to that, I mean, it's interesting that the question asks whether we take into account debt interest, and the the question has done a very good job highlighting one of the very, very, very few things that we don't take into account in our cost of production. Our cost of production really does seek to capture all of our operational costs when we analyze cost of production. So it's got everything in it.

38:15 It takes account of every single estate cost, be it direct or indirect, and it even and it even includes the the head office costs associated. So we've got a cap it captures all of our operational costs. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You you've you've identified, really, if I think about cost categories, one of the only two cost categories that don't don't get included, which is interest and tax, basically, in in cost of production. In in terms of monitoring, you know, understanding what the situation is with our peers, yeah, Luke's exactly right. We do seek to liaise the best we can on cost of production. The only thing is whilst we do it in a way which we think is appropriate and fair and reasonable to share as a cost of production, there there is no standard. I'm sure I've discussed this before, but there is no standard metric across the industry.

39:09 So it does make absolutely nailing down benchmarking quite difficult between different companies in the sector, but we would say that what what we produce is a very full cost of production. Next question. In your monitoring of transfers of fully mature hectares of plantation land between business entities in Indonesia, what is the going rate per mature hectare? And then has the price fallen as a result of the recent downtrend in CPO prices? As I might just briefly answer that. I mean, it's almost how long is a piece of string, I mean, in terms of the values of plantation land planted land depending on its age profile.

39:56 Mature can mean young, can be much older, and it can be in various states of development and of quality. I mean, we've recently announced the 8,350 hectare purchase at an average price of $9,000 per hectare. We think that's a fair and and, you know, good price as far as we are concerned. I mean, in some cases, there may be full replant, which is required, in which case one would expect a rather lower price than that. Or if if the quality were higher, one might have expected to pay more than that. In terms of whether prices have come down, I I think I would rather say that sellers' expectations have been revised downwards.

40:53 There were perhaps unrealistic expectations last year when the price of Palmer went through the roof. Now that they've come back to more historically levels which are, you know, along more historical lines of the last twenty years or so, sellers, I think, have have realized that the sorts of prices that they expected last year were simply not not achievable and weren't achievable. And it's probably no coincidence that we've been able to negotiate and agree two deals within the last six months or so. So I think there is, as I say, a realization of a more realistic realization of of price levels on the part of sellers.

41:42 Next is in a situation where rising CPO prices are supposed to encourage an increase in supply, are we stuck in a situation where the Indonesian government will always intervene to remove the additional profit from a price increase and, therefore, the incentives to encourage a supply increase or to protect the consumer from cooking oil price rises? Is this a permanent feature of the Indonesian market in your view? Matthew, do you want to have a crack at that? Yes. No. I I I don't think it is. I mean, I I think we, to some degree, have to look at the first half of twenty twenty two in isolation where the Indonesian government perhaps were in a in a reactive mode to a surprising change in the underlying price environment.

42:34 Parking that and sort of putting that in a box for a moment, we have a situation that's reestablishing itself very clearly now and had been the case for a very long time where, yes, we have the, yeah, the the well understood graduated scales for Indonesian taxes and levies, but that leaves an increase in tax for the Indonesian government if prices rise, but it does similarly leave, you know, more left behind also for the producer if there's a rising price environment. Next question is, has the capital expenditure roadmap materially changed following acquisitions? Luke, on for you. Yeah. I I think we've we've been discussing for some time now as as a group that the mill the mill program, having opened the six mill at Mussiorales, kind of brings that to a close and the CapEx would potentially sort of fall.

43:36 And I think that's still going to happen. There might be a little bit of incremental capital expenditure in relation to the acquisitions, or certainly the acquisition announced already and and hopefully the the finalization of the, acquisition in East Kalamantan. And but I wouldn't say it's it's materially going to change that CapEx projection in future years. It will depend a little bit on planting availability, particularly in East Kalamantan. But other than that, I would I would still guide that capital expenditure will will come down from recent years levels. And probably, we've well, I think we have sort of suggested that typical capital maintenance expenditure of around somewhere between 10 to 15,000,000 a year, the acquisitions wouldn't materially change that at this stage.

44:31 Next question. The acquisitions announced this month, they became and NASS. And in March of PT Tech, Tanggulan, Orion and PT Dama, Agung refer to planted hectares. Do these assets have unplanted hectares? And how does this compare to our existing estate? What typical value is assigned to unplanted hectare versus mature or immature? Matthew, do want to take Absolutely. I mean, perhaps I can focus particularly on our recently announced acquisition at ABK and NAS in relation to this. The answer to the question predominantly is is is a yes. They do have unplanted hectare and quite a substantial amount of unplanted hectare in relation to to the recently announced acquisition.

45:18 The vast majority of that unplanted hectare, which will be set aside as a conservation area, and that has that has value to us in in that, you know, when we think about our plans for our continuing conservation program and indeed continuing, you know, our continuing plans for carbon sequestration and and our our road map there, that has a value for us. It absolutely does. We think there may be some of the unplanted area that is suitable for some additional planting, but that's something that we're continuing to to review as part of the of the acquisition. Predominantly, you know, we were excited about acquiring acquiring the area from a commercial perspective for the already planted area.

46:11 In in terms of typical value assignment, yeah, when we're when we're doing the acquisition, we're assigning the value to the already planted area. And, of course, when you come to the question of, you know, how do you assign the values to mature versus immature areas, of course, that's that's a question about the cash flows and the fact that when you've got a mature area that's already mature, then it's gonna be generating a a yield today, whereas an immature area is still going to be some way off generating a yield, and therefore, that impact on its value today. Let's scroll down. Next question. Is the ongoing share buyback policy actually keeping the share price somewhat depressed at the current value as the market appreciates that you will continue the buyback at these levels?

47:05 What would be the top price that the company is prepared to pay during this program? I mean, I I wouldn't have thought that our share buyback pro program would be depressing prices. I mean, I'd like to think that we are taking the opportunity to buy shares at a time when the market we believe does undervalue the the shares. But the fact that we are buying, I I wouldn't have thought would be a depressive. And, I mean, if if anything, I would have thought it would be slightly supportive to the market, but there's no doubt. We we would certainly agree that we feel there is a disconnect as as indicated in one of the earlier questions between the NAV and the current share price. In terms of what would be the top price that we pay, I mean, that's not something that we would disclose, but I can certainly say that at these levels, where we're buying shares around the current price, this does represent excellent value for for the company.

48:08 Next question. You have mentioned the increased cost of fertilizer. Can you provide an indication as to the cost of fertilizer on an annual basis to the company? Luke, do you want to comment on that? Yeah. I mean, I I think I'll probably give an actual number. I I think that because that can vary, obviously, with with pricing and and also sometimes when it comes to the application in terms of phasing across years or across first half or second half. And but fertilizer is a substantial cost to us. But as I've said, that has impacted the margins in the first half of this year and the second half of last year. But, certainly, fertilizer pricing is moving in the right direction and back towards the levels that we saw prior to March 2022, and we do look forward at this stage to seeing some of that flow back into the p and l, in in certainly the second half and hopefully into 2024.

49:02 We continue to review that and the trends in that market, but I wouldn't like to put a absolute number on that at this stage just because of some of those factors that that can see it move up and down a little bit. Next question. Can you advise as to how fragmented the wider market is, the average estate size, and where do we stand in the market? Again, how long is a piece of string? I mean, small small shareholders own maybe two hectares. The biggest player in the market, I think I think, has 1,400,000 hectares. So take your pick. I mean, we're now, you know, some 57,000 hectares. We in terms of corporate size, I'd say we're small to medium, but some of the bigger corporate players have went into the hundreds of thousands worth of hectares of of of estate land, if that gives you a a feel.

49:57 Let me just go back to the next is that the next question? Yes. Okay. Can you expand on your capital allocation policy? What sort of returns are you expecting? Would you expect the group return on capital to be sustained at recent improved levels? I won't read out. It's quite a long question. But do do you want to just answer that to extend? We're trying to get through the questions as quickly as we can because there's still quite a few more. But Sure. I mean, I I think I'm just looking at the question. But, yeah, I mean, those improving or improved return on capital employed numbers clearly have been supported by a higher price environment. There's no doubt on that. But, again, looking at the current price environment by historical standards, that is is very a very good price environment. And should that continue, I would like to expect that the return on capital that has been seen has been seen recently would continue. Again, the group has also been on a journey with its improving yield in its crop. So as the crops increase, so too to the production, and as a result, so too to the earnings. So, that's something that we're still on an upward trajectory in, and therefore, I'd like to think that the return on capital that we've seen is is at least going to be maintained, if not increased, as we move forward.

51:20 Next question. What's the projection on crops? Are they expected significantly to increase even in the existing estate before acquisition? What's the influence of rainfall? Are there other countries up and coming in palm oil production, e EG West African? So two or three questions in in one question. Do do you want to have a quick a quick sort of a Absolutely. Crack at those? Just just break that into three as you say. So what's the projection on crops from the existing estate? Well, we still have the slide up that shows that. So if you look at the slide 15 and the chart on slide 15, that gives you a sense. There's still inbuilt growth in our existing planted area. So the chart this the chart on slide 15 shows what we anticipate for, you know, for a few years to come in in relation to our existing planted area.

52:14 That if that increase, clearly, it doesn't go on forever. You reach a point where all of your existing area is pretty much mature, and and therefore, that that you're trying to expect that inbuilt growth to go on forever. And that's one one of the reasons why we're excited about acquiring new hectorage. One of the features of the 8,000 plus hectares we're just in the process of acquiring is that it's quite young hectorage. The vast majority of it was planted between 2017 and 2019, which is very exciting to us because we know that that means it's very much on that upward trajectory in terms of the yield that that's gonna offer us as we move forward. So that's gonna help to continue the overall growth of of our plantation portfolio.

53:00 What's the influence of rainfall? Crops do rely on on having, you know, reasonably regular rainfall, and that has been the case across Indonesia for for many years. We obviously monitor that very carefully and look for any changes in rainfall patterns. I I I refer you to our recently published TCFD report where we think about climate and any, you know, risks associated with changing climate patterns, but we continue to monitor rainfall patterns. I can report that there's there's there's no significant change to rainfall patterns that we've observed up to now. Other countries that are producing, yes, there appears to be some investment going into some African countries.

53:50 It continues, however, to be the case that Indonesia and Malaysia absolutely dominate world production of palm oil. Between them, they account for 85% plus of world production with Indonesia being absolutely the dominant player with, you know, around 60% of world production. Next, has there been much attrition with regard to the operational team on the ground in Indonesia? If so, has this been due to poaching from competitors? I mean, one of the features of the the slides on responsibility and excellence is providing top quality schools, which we actually build, and we employ the teachers, housing, and all all related facilities, and actually encouraging our staff, to stay, also by our long term incentive schemes with the senior management, which involves quite a number of people now, being awarded shares.

54:47 And as a result, actually, there is, relatively speaking, not not so much attrition, if you like. So, generally, our managers and staff are happy to remain with with us. Thank you for the comment. Congratulations on the great set of results. We have given the certainty that as part of the one country focus, is there an eventual desire to divest the group's exposure in Bertam Properties? Bertam Properties, which I mentioned earlier, is the Malaysian arm of the business. It represents a relatively small part of the group's portfolio. Now it is effectively bit by bit being sold off with every property that's being sold, and then the proceeds come back to to us through dividends.

55:36 Unless we get a an offer which would logically come from one of our partners at a price which would reflect a reasonable expense extent of the the value, I think we will just continue with our investment there. And gradually, it will be, if you like, eroded with full value being exploited from it as as the rest of the 200 or 300 acres which are left are developed out. I think it's the final question. What is the present relationship with, KLK? KLK, Olalumpa, Kipong are our largest shareholder, and we we have an excellent genuinely excellent relationship with KLK. We very much enjoy comparing notes with them on the plantation sector. They are a much bigger plantation group than ourselves.

56:23 They they now own 23% of us. We have a representative from them on the board, and we're very grateful for me, Yuan Zhang's significant contribution, and we look forward to their long term investment and cooperation and and friendship with them. We've actually known KLK for well over fifty years. I think that rather neatly takes us to two minutes before 01:00. So thank you so much for all your really good questions. Thank you. Peter, Matthew, Luke, thank you. And I think you've addressed all those questions you can from investors.

57:08 And, of course, the camp company can review all questions submitted today, we'll and publish those responses on the investment company platform. Before redirecting investors to provide you with their feedback, which I know is particularly important to the company, Peter, could I just ask you for a few closing comments? Well, thank you so much again for tuning in. And I I'd actually like to say a big thank you to yourselves, I at IMC. We've we've been using this forum now, since the start of the pandemic, and it's been an excellent way of speaking, if you like, to, amongst our larger investors, but also our smaller shareholders who we previously had only had a chance to see, if you like, at our AGMs. So we very much plan to continue on this forum because it's a a great opportunity to communicate to you, and thanks so much. Clearly, is interest from the number of questions that we received from you. So thanks so much for your continuing interest, and we look forward to seeing you after the next set of results. And we look forward to seeing you at our next AGM, we hope. Thank you so much.

58:15 Peter, Matthew, Luke, thank you for updating investors today. Can I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations? This may only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of MPE Evans Group PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. Good afternoon to you all.