Hydrogen Capital Growth (Frankfurt:65U) — Investor Presentation

0:01 Good afternoon, and welcome to the Hydrogen One Capital Growth PLC Investor Presentation. Throughout the quarter presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time via the Q and A tab situated in the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives in the meeting itself. However, the company can review all the questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. I'd like to hand you to doctor JJ Trainer. Good afternoon to you, sir.

0:31 Good afternoon. Thanks everybody for for joining this first half twenty twenty four interim results presentation. I'm JJ Trainer, of managing partners here at One. And Richard Hof, other cofounder. Nice to meet you guys. So we're going to... So the disclaimer statement agenda for the call. I'll take you through the results. No change to the numbers, so I think that that'll be quite a quick part of the presentation. Then Richard will will come in with a portfolio update. Then back to me on the hydrogen market. We thought we'd take the opportunity to talk to you about what's happening in the hydrogen industry. And then we'll bring it all back together for a Q and A and lots of time for Q and A. So please do ask your questions. So first of all, the results and highlights.

1:18 This is the aggregate of the Q1 and Q2 numbers, and those numbers haven't changed. So as we said back in July with Q2, NAV is up NAV per share is up by 0.6% across the year, underpinned by financial growth in the portfolio companies. Good to see that that's still coming through. Avoided greenhouse gas emissions, just around a 160,000 tonnes since the IPO. So this is an energy transition proposition. So, again, nice to see those those numbers those numbers rising. And portfolio companies continue to attract a lot of interest from from industrial strategic investors and from institutions. There's been around €670,000,000 invested in in our portfolio companies so far so far this year. And the main activity for us as custodians of of of shareholder funds has been to put in follow on investments in some of the portfolio companies alongside those strategics and other institutions.

2:20 And, of course, working on exits and secondaries in multiple portfolio positions to to generate to generate cash. The numbers in a bit more detail, I'll do this very quickly. No change really here from our q two presentation. NAV growth for half was driven by improving valuations in multiple private positions, and we think we're seeing the benefit here of our diversified portfolio approach. In a bit more detail, the waterfall chart on the left hand side of this slide shows the moving parts of the NAV increase across the first half of the year, a rise in valuations in several private positions with a small s offset from listed names. So totaling around 3p per share in total of growth, then with some offsets from fund expenses and exchange rate movements.

3:13 And on the right hand side, on a longer term basis since the IPO, the NAV per share and the NAV and the NAV per share has been rising steadily since the mid twenty twenty one IPO. We will characterize that as organic growth across the portfolio. This chart breaks down the NAV growth in more detail across the half. So this is on a company by company basis, and this is the entire HARGEN one private portfolio. We're trying to give maximum transparency to to our investors here. We've seen increased valuations in multiple portfolio companies, and the NAV at the end of the period now sits at a £133,000,000 compared to a market capitalization of just over £50,000,000.

3:59 Some comments on valuation and the valuation methodology. The valuation of the entire private portfolio is reviewed and approved by the board and the AFIM on a quarterly basis, and it's reviewed by the company's auditors, KPMG, annually. The private portfolio is valued either using discounted cash flows, so the discounted expression of of of future cash flows, or a combination of DCF and the price of recent investment, sometimes called PORI. The portfolio average discount rate for June 2024 was 13.3%, which is relatively high in the energy sector. And DCF valuations are also benchmarked against listed peer group valuations as as part of a part of our reporting process. So multiple inputs are very... We think a very a very rigorous way of of doing these valuations.

4:52 By way of a sense check, four portfolio companies saw external investments. So so new investors coming in so far this year. So that accounts for around 770% of the NAV. And the valuations that you see here are calibrated using those entry prices. So there's that very real external benchmark on the on on the portfolio values. So overall, we think this is a very detailed, robust, and I think we're gonna have to say quite a challenging process, which we think should give our investors confidence in the numbers that that that we're disclosing. In terms of the share price development, we're quite often asked about the the disconnect, therefore, between our NAV and and and the and and the share price development. The chart on the right hand side shows the development of of of NAV in the fund on a on a subsector by subsector basis.

5:43 So so generally rising with with some volatility.

5:46 The dashed line on the right hand chart or on the right hand side of this chart is the listed hydrogen sector. So they go over listed hydrogen sector, which has been falling steadily since our IPO. And on the left hand side of the chart, you can see our share price, the share price of the listed hydrogen market, which are which are broadly broadly tracking each other and are now in the orange line rising gently across the period. So listed listed hydrogen companies and, I have to say, other renewables companies and funds, listed funds, have all been under pressure since 2021 as the market's been being blown around by a risk off attitude to this... To to to to to to the future energy industry, higher interest rates, energy geopolitics, and all of those things together have have led to this this derating of of of listed share prices.

6:42 And and our share price, of course, is very much caught up in that, leaving us at quite a large discount to our fundamental value. We are working hard to close that gap by demonstrating value for our investor... Investors with our... Well, obviously, through our quarterly reporting and maintaining the company in good order pending improved market conditions. So with that, Richard, over to you on the portfolio. Thanks, JJ. What I want to do is just to take you back through the first half, just a summary of the fund and some examples of some of the invest... Investments that we've made. Just a summary of the funds here quickly. Private assets dominate ninety eight percent of invested into private companies. Mostly supply chain companies, manufacturers of components like electrolyzers and fuel cells, mostly European, Germany, and The UK in particular. A couple of project developers in there... In Sweden...

7:40 Sorry, in Norway and in Germany. We'll take you through some examples of those in a moment. So overall, diversity between companies, services, services, and geographies with an OECD focus and a lot of investment coming into the sector from our other investors in the in the portfolio. Just a quick summary of of the news flow in the first half. Our companies continue to attract third party capital. That's €670,000,000 invested by third parties in the first half of the year, underpinning broad support for the hydrogen sector. That went predominantly into Sunfire, €500,000,000, bit of news flow there. And Elcogen, €140,000,000 and Strom, another €30,000,000 being invested there.

8:33 In terms of the portfolio generating revenues, as JJ said, we want to emphasize this is not an r and d portfolio. These are real companies, mature companies generating revenues. And in the first half, on a 100% basis, the the portfolio generated 76,000,000 in revenues over the last twelve months to q two two thousand twenty four. And that was up 20... Sorry, 44% from the equivalent period in q two twenty twenty three on a pro form a basis. So it just shows that the growth is real, and it's accelerating. Our companies continue to attract the third party capital, as we mentioned. I'd like to take you through a few examples over the next few slides starting with Sunfire. So Sunfire is one of the largest holdings in the fund, and this is a leading alkaline and solid oxide electrolyzer business with its HQ in Dresden photographed on the left hand side there.

9:30 Sun five recently announced the closure of a a €500,000,000 funding round, including 215,000,000 of equity and capital from a... HYDROGEN ONE in terms of convertibles in... Into that that funding round. This this leaves Sunfire as one of the best capitalized electrolyzer names out there, and it's well positioned to grow its capacity to gigawatt scale from that factory in the coming months and years.

10:00 Then we have Elpigen. A 140,000,000 of investment into Elpigen, primarily from Hyundai and Baker Hughes and others investing into the latest funding round. The investment by Hyundai comes with a strategic intent to set manufacturing joint venture up in South Korea. This is the shipping part of Hyundai, so we should see some interesting developments in the maritime application of hydrogen. This this will be used to... The the current funding round to build manufacturing capacity to a 100 megawatts in the factory that you can see going up there on the left hand side. And this construction has already commenced in Tallinn and for first production from that factory early next year. And then we've got HYDROC.

10:46 HYDROC is now moving to scale up up of the manufacturer of the HYCOM units. The gen five units are now installed with Centrica and CEMEX at at TRO levels of seven seven to eight. That's technology readiness levels. JJ will take you through some examples of the other TRO levels of the rest of the fund just showing you the maturity of the technology in these businesses. HYDROC, don't forget, make the the HYCOM unit that splits methane into carbon and hydrogen. This This is is a a real real focus focus in cement, steel, energy storage and management, particularly areas where where companies are looking to do something with waste waste methane or methane gas. Probably a lot of the hydrogen that will get produced in The UK for conversion into our current gas fired power stations may be may be using the HYDROC the HYDROC system.

11:40 A recent investment from The US will see HYDROC access US gas supply chain as well, a great and interesting application in terms of flare gas mitigation. The run time of these units is now only restricted by the carbon handling as torch performance is is is excellent. So you're taking methane, and you're producing five times the amount of carbon to hydrogen. But you can see the test unit operating well there in the BRIDG test site on the right hand side there with with Sentrica. The last company, but one is h h two e. H h two e owned the investment rights into a portfolio of green hydrogen projects in West Germany, including Lubmin and others. Lubmin was a nice catch for us terms of the restructuring of h h two e in the first half where we had the special purpose vehicles being absorbed up into into Topco.

12:37 But the portfolio of h h two e is huge. H h two e aims to establish establish four gigawatts worth of green hydrogen production across various locations in Germany seen on the map on the right hand side there. We've also had the announcement of the partnership with Borsig ZM in helping the production of green hydrogen in Germany through advanced compressor technology, specifically for a 200 megawatt electrolysis plant. You can see some of the units on the left hand side there. This is vital technologies and very important for the storage and transportation of green hydrogen in Germany as the as the the real network and infrastructure of Germany starts to advance. And then on to the last company we want to just focus on for now. Not so much to do with the funding of of Bramble, but what Bramble do in the portfolio is they make a fuel cell. You can see a picture of one on the left hand side there, made of printed circuit board material. So it's replacement of metal. And in percentage terms, fuel cells made from printed circuit boards are up to 80% cheaper compared to metal based fuel cells, and this has great application in the mobility sector.

13:50 In In the first half of twenty four, Brandboard deployed deployed this lightweight technology in some key mobility applications in transport and marine, as you can see from the pictures on the right hand side there. It's... Because because of the secrecy, we can't can't talk about in detail the application into the tier one auto sector. But as you can imagine, getting fuel cells to be cheaper and lighter is key for tier one auto manufacturers. And investors will have noticed the recent collaboration announced between Toyota and BMW in scaling up manufacture... Full scale manufacture of of the BMW x five. And this is very relevant to what to what we're doing with with Brandvault. So I can pass you back to JJ. We can talk a little bit about some of the the macro issues around hydrogen.

14:39 Yeah. Thanks, Richard. Let me take a few slides to to update you on how we see the development of the hydrogen macro. And I think people on the call may may be familiar with with a with quite quite a common theme in technology sectors. But at the early stages of a of a of a of a new technology sector, there's there's overoptimism in the market as to the potential of of of that new technology, and that's very rapidly replaced by overly pessimistic views as to the as to the future of that tech. And then you get overoptimism, you get over pessimism, and and then you get sort of pragmatic pragmatic reality kicking in. And that's sometimes called the Gartner hype cycle. So over, under, and then and then reality. And and we think very firmly, actually, that that's what's happening in the hydrogen sector. A lot of hype in 2020, 2021.

15:29 Now lots of pessimism, but actually too much pessimism because what we're seeing is a... Is an industry that's that's moving along quite nicely and actually actually accelerating in terms of in terms of its growth. The chart on the screen sort of summarizes how how we see the the deployment of clean hydrogen. Hydrogen is sometimes called the Swiss army knife of decarbonization. So one one gadget, lots of applications. And in in in many, you know, of the examples on the chart, there's actually no alternative to clean hydrogen if if we as a society are are gonna get to gonna get to net zero. The the the the themes in in green on the left hand side of the chart, those are already commercial.

16:15 They're already out there making money and and and obviously deployed, and the others are are at a slightly earlier stage. What we're seeing is a lot of uptake in clean hydrogen in the industrial gas sector and good momentum in other areas. Keep an eye on on transport and synthetic synthetic aviation fuel, particularly in the European European Union. So our view is that hydrogen is is is highly investable now. It is a $175,000,000,000 a year market. That is the so called gray hydrogen market, big industrial gas, and a big polluter. And replacing all of that with clean hydrogen is very much what's driving demand for the for the the products that that the companies that Richard's just just just described.

17:00 So this is not an r and d game. This is a rollout of established technology into into quite a large market. And over time, we we do expect to see clean hydrogen expanding more broadly in the energy system and particularly displacing diesel. So there's value for investors in getting involved now in supply chains and and in key equipment providers. And there's also value, we think, in getting it at the start of large scale hydrogen supply joint ventures, investable now and growing now. Just to put that in context, around the world, we are tracking 1.2 gigawatts of of green hydrogen online today. That's about point 2,000,000 tons per annum of green hydrogen.

17:46 That is 50%, 50% up versus last year. And behind that that 1.2 gigawatts, there's nearly 40 times as much in development, money being spent in a material way on on electrolyzers, on land, on on the compressors, and other offtake equipments. And all of this, you know, in the end has substantial potential to avoid greenhouse gas emissions. Same sort of thing, but just expressed in terms of money. So this this is the funds flow into the into the clean hydrogen sector since we launched in in 2020. 50,000,000,000 have been invested around the world since since 2020, a strong increase this year compared to 2023. The numbers are up 25% to $20,000,000,000 so so far this year. So there's some

18:36 acceleration there of of of of the investment. And just to make it real, here are some examples of of hydrogen supply projects that are post f I... Post FID, so after the final investment decision, and these are under construction around the world today. Nine gigawatts of projects. When all that's on stream, that's 1,200,000 tons per annum of of of green hydrogen compares to point two online today. €18,000,000,000 is being spent to develop all of this.

19:09 So that's serious money from major backers and banks. These are bankable projects, large scale. It's not hype. It's not innovation r and d. This real. It's large, and it's happening happening now. And if you bring that through in... Into our portfolio companies and and think about the the the technology readiness levels, the TRLs of of of this... Of of these businesses, There are some earlier stage applications here at Bramble, which Richard's mentioned, and Cranfield. These are low valuations with huge upside for our investors as those technologies mature. And then at the top end of the chart there, large scale commercial rollouts, high TRL levels. Which leads to some things like Sunfire and Strom, double digit revenues and flight plans for positive EBITDA. So real assets, solid businesses, growing markets, and highly investable now.

20:02 Thanks, JJ. So let's just round off there. So we continue to invest into some of the best hydrogen companies and projects globally through our own unique network. Rising net asset value that represents the the real value, the real calculated value in the portfolio, material and rising revenues from these businesses that we've invested into with a real first mover advantage to capture the best sites and and the the best best markets in the hydrogen world. £3,000,000 invested from us in the first half of two thousand twenty four compared to our co investors of 566,000,000 invested into the same portfolio. That's the €670,000,000 that I mentioned earlier. Specifically, one of the best companies in the portfolio, h h two e in Germany, the consolidation secured a great holding in some of the best green hydrogen projects globally, and we're very proud of that.

20:59 Cash of 2,000,000 so far to be topped up with portfolio disposals ongoing and on track throughout the remainder of 2024. As we set out at the beginning of the year, that's all all going to plan. And And as JJ has just demonstrated, the hydrogen sector is material, it's growing, and the time to invest into this sector is now. Thanks very much for your attention. We'd like to give... Pass it back to you for a a q and a session.

21:26 Thank you very much for the presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the q and a tab, which is situated on the top right hand corner of your screen. But just while the company take a few moments to read the questions that have already come in today, I'd like to remind you that recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published q and a can be accessed via your investor dashboard. As you can see, we have received a number of questions throughout today's presentation. If I could just hand back to you to read out those questions and give response to it, it's appropriate to do so. I'll pick up from you both at the end.

21:54 Okay. First question, based on the on the cash at the end of the first half and the cost of running the company, when does the cash run out, and are you addressing this issue? Yes. We are addressing this issue. We've been working on an ongoing number of disposals from the fund that we said we we would complete by the end of two thousand twenty four, and that's all going to track... On track. In terms of the the 2,000,000, well, it costs about 3,000,000 a year to run the fund.

22:26 But with the disposals that we're expecting, we would expect the fund to have funding for for at least at least another year plus. Yeah. So question, what's being done to tackle the massive discounts in the HYDROWN share price? So so thanks for the question. We we did touch on this in the presentation. The the value gap we see is is at least 50%. So that's comparing the NAV to to to the share price. I think what we can do as as as fund managers is is a couple of things. We can ensure that the the the NAVs that are published are are correct and and and do reflect reflect the fundamental valuations and so that the market should have confidence in in those numbers, and and we talked about the processes and things that that that that go in... Go into that.

23:16 We can also show value back to investors by by ultimately divesting from from positions and and and showing that showing that value expressed in terms of cash. And I think I have to say there is a macro, a large macro effect in this, isn't really in our control, which is all around the interest rate cycle and the geopolitics that go that go with energy. And what we are working on is is all of those things and making sure the company is is run run properly and maintained properly

23:47 until such time as that as that macro position improves. I mean, it's also worth worth adding. The last time we updated you was the end end of July in terms of exits from the portfolio. Then we had August. It's this European portfolio. Not much happens in Europe during the summer. So we're we're we're now reentering that window. So there... There's a question here about ex... Exits haven't happened. Well, they didn't happen in August, but we've gotten out till the end of the year, and everything's on track, as we said, for a continuing disposal process. As... Following on from that as a presubmitted question, which mentioned that that last year, we talked about divestments this year, and and are you still on track for all of that? The answer is very firm. Maybe you're hard on track for divestments in in 2024.

24:38 The discount rate has come down from 14.2 to 13.3, having a positive impact it. Now can you go into the reasons for this? Yes. The way we calculate our weighted average cost of capital starts with the risk free rate of return, which has come down across the world. And we have a look at weighted average discount rate cost of capital going forward. Forward. So that's come down a lot in in real terms. We also apply a small company discount. That's also come down. That comes from third party data. So there has has been an incremental move, and that's been calculated. That's not just guesswork. And there's, a pre submitted question referring to the the the chart that talks about the Swiss army knife of of decarbonization, which which hydrogen application under development excites you the most and and why.

25:29 But I got... I just just mentioned too, and Richard might might wanna come in too, but the industrial gas sector, so replacing gray with green, that's what we thought would drive

25:38 the industry when we did the IPO, and that's all coming through. And that that, is keeping us pretty busy. But at the at the other end of the spectrum, if you like, at the the bottom end of the Swiss Army knife, there... There's a there's a section there around flight. And this is fundamentally earlier stage, but decarbonization of decarbonization of flight is extremely challenging. And, essentially, what you can do is have fuel cells running on hydrogen in turboprop, or you can find a way... And you can find a way to use hydrogen in jet.

26:13 And there are some some significant, you know, monies being invested in in creation of what we call synthetic aviation fuels, which are basically a like for like for aviation fuel, but but using sustainable components. So so c o two that's captured from the atmosphere and, of course, hydrogen that's manufactured using electrolysis. And the... In the European Union, there there are rules coming in that require the use of synthetic aviation fuel, and that we think is gonna be a big demand pull for clean hydrogen going forward. What are the brokers doing to bring the discount in to get you noticed? Do you have any face to face meetings or group presentations, please? If that's coming from someone that hasn't had a meeting, we will come and see you. Do not worry. But, yes, Barclays, our broker, Buchanan, our our PR guys, have have organized a lot of meetings for us, and we've been meeting institutional investors alike throughout the summer.

27:08 So, yes, we we think we've got that covered. Miguel, thanks for the question. Why has the last twelve months revenue declined in q two twenty twenty four versus q q one twenty twenty four and q four twenty twenty three. Miguel, thanks for the question. We we look at this year over year. So so the revenues that that we show for the portfolio is the last twelve months of revenue expressed at the end of the end of the current quarter. And we think the thing to do is compare Q1 to Q1, Q2 to Q2, Q3 to Q3, etcetera, which takes away the seasonal variations in revenues. And that's, frankly, a fairly standard way of looking at revenues in the market. So year over year, so q two to q two, the revenues were up 44%, and we think that's a very comfortable position to to be in. And we think there's more revenue more more revenue growth to come.

28:00 And do you have the correlation between your share valuation and the rest of the sector? What makes up the rest of the sector? Well, it's basically the listed companies like ITM Power in The UK, Sirius Power in The UK, Bloom, Ballard, Plug Power, other companies in The US, companies in that... On the continent. It's it's it's a global mix of the main companies there. There there aren't... There are very few project developers. They're mostly supply chain businesses and manufacturers. That's that's what makes up the mix. I'm pretty close to to what our portfolio looks like, but all listed, obviously. And there's a question from Andrew m and a question from Andrew l. So I'll try and try try and... Because I think you're in the same area, so let me try and combine those. Any disappointments in the portfolio?

28:51 What hasn't developed as you'd hoped?

28:53 And then with the recent election in The UK, are there any upcoming upcoming changes in government policy that that could boost the hydrogen sector in The UK? So I think taking those two together, the the thing that has disappointed is is The UK, frankly. So we we do have some interesting supply chain businesses invest in The UK. So Bramble, Richard mentioned, HYDROWTH would be another example. But but the customer basis for those products tend to be overseas. And the development of of the hydrogen industry in in The UK itself had... Has not has not been, you know, global... Globally leading. And and, you know, around the world, California, the European Union, the Far East have just made a lot more progress on that. If there was one thing that the new UK government could do...

29:39 Well, two things that the new new UK government could do. First of all, continue with the policies that that were set out by the previous government, which is all around a a target for 10 gigawatts for 2030 and providing the fund... Some of the funding to to to make to make that happen. But what they could also do is is introduce a timetable to remove gray hydrogen from from the from the from UK industry. And that, of course, would do two things. It would it would take down 5% of UK greenhouse gas emissions because gray hydrogen is is a big colluter in this country. And secondly, it it would create demand pull for for for clean hydrogen to to replace replace the gray. And you know what? That that that is what's going on in the European Union under legislation called red three. So so some form of of of phase out of of gray hydrogen in The UK, we we think, would would be very, very beneficial for the hydrogen industry in The UK.

30:37 I think one one more on this topic. This is a global fund. And so if one country moves more quickly than another country, that's just fine. We we we we allocate the capital where there's the best NAV potential for for our for our investors kind of wherever it is in the OECD. Another good question from Andrew. Light transport is not typically being considered central part of the usage, but I saw an article recently about BMW reconsidering it. Well, you're absolutely right, and I mentioned it earlier. BMW have announced that they're pulling the x five into production with the fuel cell. It comes on the back of... If if people consider e... EV vehicle sales globally, it's stopped going up. And so people are starting to think about on the tier one manufacturing side, where else can we can we get a product from? And people are turning back to hydrogen. So that is absolutely... You're absolutely right. That one is going ahead.

31:30 So there's questions on blue and green hydrogen from Ivan and from Barry. Let me... Again, let me try and try and combine those questions. So what's the scale of green versus blue worldwide and and going forward? And, you know, Barry, does blue hydrogen have more of a chance of making money? Why isn't hydrogen the one investing in blue? So just to calibrate everybody, green hydrogen is made using renewable electricity and electrolysis splitting water. So it's it's zero emission hydrogen. Blue hydrogen uses natural gas, sometimes coal, but but more often natural gas as the feedstock.

32:06 And, of course, that creates greenhouse gas emissions. Those are captured and stored geologically using using carbon capture and storage. So two fundamentally different ways of making of making hydrogen. One of the major differences is the capital cost. I think this does come to the... To to to some of the answers to those questions. If you want to build a green hydrogen facility, it costs you about €250,000,000. If you want to build blue hydrogen facility, you're you're in the billions because you need the CCS site, the drilling, the big petrochemical plant that goes with it. So that capital intensity, we think in the in the end, is going to mean that that green hydrogen has the advantage. Now around the world, there are blue hydrogen projects on the table and online in in North America.

32:52 Has a proposal in Beitoum, for example. Shell have a project online in in in Canada. And here in The UK, again, Equinor and BP have blue hydrogen projects, and E and I have blue hydrogen projects on on on the drawing board. But the... These are these are in the billions. In the end, we we we are interested to grow NAV for our investors and take down greenhouse gas emissions. And we think we'll best serve doing that investing in green, lower capital intensity, lower emissions, and and frankly more affordable for a for a fund of our size. So that's... That that... That's how we'd see it. In the end, we think green... We we think blue won't be the winner. It'll be green or other other forms of of of clean hydrogen.

33:38 David asked, can can we give an explanation about the falls in value of Strom and Gen two Energy? Mainly to do with the timing of cash flows. It's not about things going away. It's just things going away slightly into the future. And that has quite quite a difference when you're doing discounted cash flows, when you start to move a large increase in cash flows out out by by a a year year or or or even six months. So there've been some moderate movement in timing, and that's had a had a moderate effect on valuation. So Brian p has asked hydrogen pricing is not competitive. What are you doing to put pressure on governments to to stop stop interfering in the price inflation to make the customer price more competitive? Brian, thanks for the question. I don't think we've got a lot of calling cards on governments around the world. Well, let me give you a couple of numbers. If you go down to the Land Rover dealer and you buy Discovery s, a fossil fuel powered Discovery s, it'll cost you about £63,000.

34:33 If you call Toyota and buy a hydrogen powered Mirai, guess what? It costs you about £63,000 and the Hyundai Novi similar sort of price. If you want to fill up the tank with either diesel or hydrogen in in in those vehicles, guess what? They they... But in both applications, it costs about £80. And the range of a of a Toyota Mirai, guess what? It's about 400 miles, which is the same as a as a Land Rover Land Rover Discovery. So I'm not sure I fully agree with you on your pricing point for for where we sit. There... There's pricing parity between hydrogen transport vehicles and luxury SUV. And and SUV market is basically what hydrogen transport is all about. The big gap actually and and the questions back to the governments are are where are the hydrogen filling stations?

35:25 And then here in The UK, that's basically a big zero. In Germany, The Netherlands, it's a completely different picture. There are hundreds of hydrogen refueling stations. And frankly, those regions are just much more advanced on this stuff than we are here in the EU. Slightly plays into John's question. Why is Germany so far ahead of us seemingly in hydrogen use? I can give a personal answer to this. I think Germany is a lot more pragmatic. It's run by engineers, and hydrogen is a great engineering solution. Whereas in The UK, maybe we're not so much run by engineers. We do things for different reasons. We'll get there in the end. But as as JJ said, you've got... It's law in Germany you have to build these refueling stations. That That means means that people like Daimler and Shell and others can start thinking about putting in infrastructure to run HGV trucks.

36:15 And we'll get there in the end in The UK and hope the labor government will will take us even further forward. Do you wanna take the Norway question? Yeah. How is the Norwegian hydrogen development coming on?

36:25 It's coming on very well. What we've got in Norway, remember, is a very, very cheap source of of constant hydroelectricity. So we've got a 100 a 100% load factors. Whereas when you're getting green electricity in the rest of the world, it's normally about, you know, third to half of the day from, you know, sunshine and and wind. So we've got high load factors, great forward thinking from the Norwegian government, Therefore, very, very cheap green hydrogen being produced. We're currently working with the logistics of getting the hydrogen produced in Norway to to... And being sold down down in Germany, in Hamburg. In fact, the same place as h h two e. It's selling its hydrogen and working with with real engineering businesses to to ship and to move it by train.

37:12 And so that's all going very well, and we should be announcing more about that throughout the rest of this year.

37:17 And Paul is... Paul Thief, thanks for the question, asking about the $670,000,000 and the the... I think trying to get the da Vinci code of which investment adds to what to get to that €670,000,000. So I I salute the question, Paul, but there is some confidentiality around this. And so for for for investments, it... So for for companies have attracted external investments in the first half of the year, and and those numbers have been used in in valuations of the of the portfolio that that that we've shown you today. Perfect. JJ, Richard, thank you very much for answering those questions you can from investors. Of course, the company can review all the questions submitted today, and we will publish those responses on the investor me company platform. Just before redirecting investors, provide you their feedback, which I know is particularly important to you both. Richard, could I just ask you for a few closing comments? Yes. Thanks, everybody, for for coming along to listen to us this afternoon.

38:11 Listen. The the the fund is on track. The growth is real. It's material. Revenue growth from these businesses is very encouraging. There's a very excellent market for acquisitions and disposals that we're playing into, and we'll we'll be updating you through the rest of this year on our progress in that area. So what what... Watch this space. We really have first mover advantage here with the HYDROWN CAPITAL, currently not reflecting the share price, but things can change very quickly. So, So well, stay with us, and thanks very much for your support. Thank you once again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close the session as you now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback and all the management team can better understand your views and expectations.

38:58 This will take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure we're greatly valued by the company. Apart from the management team of HYDROGEN CAPITAL GROWTH PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all.