Goldplat (LSE:GDP) — Investor Presentation

0:00 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the GOLDPLAT PLC Investor Presentation. Situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Please just simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And if you could give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company would be most grateful. And I'd now like to hand you over to CEO, Werner Klingenberg. Good morning, sir. Good morning, Jake, and, you know, welcome to all the viewers out of sunny sunny South Africa. It's nice to talk to you in the daytime.

0:54 Normally, this happened half hours, so I appreciate the time that you've made to to listen to the presentation today. I think the last time we we spoke was also the quarter one results. By then, the annual results for June 2022 hasn't been out. So I would like to to share a bit of the June 2022 results with you today, obviously, give you an update in terms of quarter two and where we are. But in general, more talk about where the business currently is and also a little bit about how we foresee the future and for clarity from your side. So I'm gonna I think a lot of you probably have already seen a lot of the slides in this presentation, and I'm gonna try and keep it brief so that we can rather focus on the q and a afterwards. I'm sure there's a lot of questions.

1:57 And I really wanna start trying to give you a proper overview of what GOLDPLAT PLC is. And if you look at this slide, we start with a nice intro saying, well, we cash generative business focused on recovering value from previously mined material on behalf of current and historical mining industries. But in essence, the question is what does it really mean? So I think firstly, cash generative business, we have been continuously generating operating profits out of our two recovery businesses, and I'll share a slide about that soon. And we are really doing that through recovering value. Now the value we're referring to is mainly gold as well as some PGMs, And we do that by getting previously mined material from current operators as well as from areas that has been contaminated by historical mining activities.

3:03 Now if we look at, well, what is previously mined material?

3:09 If we say that the mined material is x, let's say it's a 100, you normally find depending on the process, depending on the resource that's being mined that you recover 90% plus of the material at the mine through the primary processes. And it probably is the market's understanding that the remainder of it will end up on a tailings dump some way. However, that's not a 100% true. You'll find that you've got, for instance, in in in gold, you've got gold that gets leached out of the mined material from mine site to deposition site at the end of the day. You'll get gold that will end up in fine carbons.

3:59 It will attach to liners with a steel or rubber liners, and it will even get impregnated into the grease that's being used in the machinery. So in reality, there's a small percentage or a point of a percent of what has recently been mined that will end up in various types of byproducts. And it's been GOLDPLAT's business for more than thirty to forty years to really focus on that. I spoke to somebody yesterday, they called it the leftovers. I think they can call it whatever they want. As long as we're seeing the returns that we've been generated, I'm quite happy in terms of taking that material. And I think we've we've built up quite a niche plant and a niche team in terms of understanding the processes, in terms of recovering their value over the last thirty years. Now where are we operating?

4:54 We've got a plant situated in Ghana. We also have operations in South Africa where everything originally started. The business in South Africa focus and I'm gonna give you a background on this because when we ask also some other questions, it might give perspective. The South African business really has two main sources of material, although they vary in itself. The one is material that delights to maybe waste rock dams or area that's been contaminated by historical mining that we procure normally at quite a low rates because the grade limit is also low and we process it through CIL circuits.

5:40 Those circuits runs three sixty five, twenty four hours a day. We also then have a lot of the blue chip mining groups that we service. And from then we get to buy products as I spoke about, the maligners, the fine carbons, the greases, etcetera, as well as wheat chips. And so that material we get is more on a batch basis and we process it on a batch basis. Now if we look at what we've defined in terms of what GOLDPLAT does, obviously everything started on the gold side. We've also moved to platinum. However, the platinum recovery processes looks a little bit different. So it means that the remaining platinum where it ends up is different than gold.

6:35 A lot of it actually ends up on tailings and not necessarily in fine carbons just because of the processes they they follow. And we currently do service the PGM industry, and I believe there's still scope to do more of that. However, the byproducts being generated by the PGM industry is is slightly different and sometimes less or lower of grade. Now I've already spoken about our niche recovery business and and our experienced management team. I think if if you sit back and you think about what I've just described, obviously, as we're getting material from different areas that has been introduced into different types of byproducts.

7:21 You can understand that every type of material we get is different, whether it is in terms of this the actual tonnage we get per month, whether it is in terms of the grade of the material, as well as what it's associated with. So you need a good understanding in terms of how you need to process it through which circuits you probably will get the best recoveries. And that is something we've been able to develop. The important thing there is also we've always been focused on ensuring that we don't over capitalize in terms of these processes, use of secondhand equipment where we can and really maintaining those as best as possible to ensure we don't need to to incur a lot of capital around replacements, but they're all on maintenance.

8:22 If we then look at so just stepping back from from the the question is is, who are we servicing? So we're servicing South Africa, and we're servicing West Africa. We also then get material out of South America and we're looking at expanding into South America and I'll talk about that a little bit later in the future. In South Africa, we probably service half of the operating plants plus minus. So there's still a scope of growing if we acquire more clients, one specific decline in in South Africa.

9:07 In Ghana, I will say we we still have a lot of scope. We have more we we service the base of of the industry. Most of the clients we service is in Ghana. We do get material out of Mali. We're looking at getting material out of Ivory Coast, but there's still a lot of plants operating in those areas where we currently are not getting material from and that we're quite active in terms of discussion either with the clients themselves or with government in terms of understanding what we're doing and why our processes is transparent. Because that's obviously the biggest concern when you start exporting gold is to make sure what has been exported is not understated, from the government perspective.

10:00 If we then just quickly, move to some key data, the share price yesterday was at 9.4 P, it moved up to above 10 today, which is positive and is now more in line before we released our quarter two and annual results. Since we've last spoken, we saw some board changes. Gerald Gosby Green, which was a newly appointed chairman, asked to step down due to his other commitments and responsibilities. And I'm quite glad that we can retain or retain him as a board member. He's got a lot of knowledge about the business being part of of being a CEO of the business for for four to five years.

10:46 And and I'm also quite happy to have Gerard Kemp on the board that could step in as chairman, and that's also got a lot of experience in the industry and also as a chairman and looking forward to to the contributions we can receive from them in the future. As you're probably already aware of, we've got one main shareholder in Maarten Oi that owns close to 29%. I've already taken you through the value process, what we do, where we get the material from, and what we process. I think what I would like to add here is is just to indicate that in reality what we've achieved in the gold industry is really to be able to go after the material left behind by the primary producers.

11:46 And they've got very few options. Some some of it might end up on tidings and some other stuff, they'll need to find a way of dealing it from an environmental perspective. And we are there to provide economical solution at the end of the day as well as environmental solution. And since we've moved away from primary mining three to four years ago, the focus has been to say, well, we've built up this key abilities over the last thirty to forty years. Is it something we can expand in terms of industry as the big mining groups are looking more and more to to to obviously manage all the resources the best they possibly can to produce the most ounces from all the resources they put in, whether it's the CO2 they emit, whether it's the water they use, whether it's the human capital they use.

12:42 And I think there is definitely a key area for somebody that's willing to do what we've been doing to actually go around, get all the resources that's available and see if we can recover value. And I've been indicating to the market that we are looking to say, well, can't we expand this thinking into other parts? And we're obviously looking at a few commodities and there is potential opportunity on the coal side and I'll probably talk about that slightly later just for your benefit. Obviously, for me, this is an area that's always been there. We have been providing the recovery from byproducts.

13:32 Some people will say it's waste for the mining industry. However, from our side, I believe there's a lot we can do and lot we need to focus on to make sure we actually become more and more committed to an ESG platform in terms of our own processes. And that's something that you will be seeing coming through from GOLDPLAT PLC, whether it's from a reporting perspective, and then also in terms of identifying the gaps that they might be and finding ways of reducing and improving where we can our own ESG responsibility. I've mentioned a little bit earlier that we have that we've been cash generative and and profitable for a long period of time.

14:23 This is just some numbers, operating profits before finance cost. But just for the two operating entities, for South Africa and for Ghana, it is clear that we've been on average generating around 6,000,000 for the last four years. If we look at the last six months, even though we had the load shedding struggles, we're gonna talk about in South Africa, we still maintain between between the two entities managed to maintain £3,300,000 of operating profits, which is quite exciting and obviously will give us leverage to look at opportunities and growth and ways of returning value to the shareholders in the near future.

15:12 I'm gonna not go through this in detail. We have spoken about this. I'll give you a bit more understanding of where I see the company goes towards the end. If we quickly look at and I guess it's unfortunate a little bit of old news, although it's extremely good news, the financial results for 06/30/2022, we can see our gross profit increased significantly from 2021. 2021 in itself was in a bad financial period. So we really saw good results coming through from during 06/30/2022 financial periods. Our net profit after tax increased by 44%. And we're trading well, as at the moment, probably at a PE closer to 5%, which I still believe is quite in the low end.

16:03 We need to be able to prove to the market that visibility of earnings for the future is there to make sure that that can tick up in the future. If we then look at the balance sheet, it's clear we're locking up a lot of cash and working capital at this point in time.

16:23 Our turnaround time for a lot of the concentrates we produce is quite long. It varies from four months to six months depending on how quickly we ship, depending on how difficult it is to assay at the smelter. And for me, that is one of the focuses of this next financial period is to try and get that down as best as possible and just to manage your working capital better. I know one of the questions from the audience has been why the high interest? And I think it's partly because even though we've got cash on hand, that cash is sitting in different operating entities. So it's sitting in Ghana and South Africa at different points in time, and both of them has got different cash flow requirements at at different dates and times. And sometimes, it's quite significant.

17:19 If you look at trading as a receivables, we've got, at the end of the year, basically 10,000,000 locked up in there. So although we've got cash to use, sometimes that cash requirement can vary quite significantly. And it's important that we are conservative in the way we manage and conserve cash to be able to take the opportunities when they arise in terms of having the funds available to acquire material. If we look at the return on capital, depending on how you calculate it. And the way we calculate it is to look at our net profit before tax and interest deducting our finance exchange losses of which there was a lot during the previous financial year, roughly 1,200,000.

18:19 That was driven by the reporting currencies in South Africa and then specifically Ghana depreciating against USD. But if we deducted 1,200,000 from our profit before interest and tax divided by the capital employed, is basically your equity equity plus all finance debt, you're getting returns of about 30%, which I believe is quite exceptional and is something that we obviously, as long as we believe that we can utilize capital inside the business for those type of returns, we'll continue to look at investing where we can.

19:07 So I think that's sort of in its summary of where GOLDPLAT currently currently is. And if if we now need to look and say, where are we going? We have moved away from mining three, four years ago. We've been generating profitable returns as well as increasing returns over the last three to four years. And the focus is to say, we are service provider to industry, but it's important that we start looking at ways of really becoming a partner and developing a brand that the industry wants to be associated with to make sure we strengthen that relationships. Unfortunately, if you look at the mining space, it's so capital intensive that you only have a few operators.

19:58 In South Africa, you probably have three to four, which is of really significant scale. So even if all of them are our customers, you still have a problem where you are quite sensitive in terms of losing any potential customers. We've indicated in our financial report that obviously that's a potential risk. We remain sensitive in terms of sourcing and we need to look at well how are we going to diversify away from it. One of the ways we've done in the past quite successfully and we're seeing the benefits in the last six months is just geographically having gone out there that's supporting South Africa during this time is obviously helpful. And we're looking at opportunities to grow into South America through acquisition of a property in Brazil.

20:52 Now again, we will expand in Brazil the same way we've always expanded. If you go and probably look at the way Ghana expanded over the last fifteen years, we started a small adding, adding, adding, and we're still adding to Ghana in terms of just in the last probably three years, we started processing different types of byproducts in Ghana for the industry day. So if we go into Brazil, we probably will do it in the same way. And really the reason why we're moving to Brazil comes down to we've been operating in South America for the last five to six years. We've seen successes, Ghana has benefited from that.

21:38 But we've also seen the shipping cost increase quite significantly, meaning there's a lot of low grade material where we can't provide the service to the industry. And we really want to start targeting some of those resources. And once you're there, once you've got a address, once you're dealing with some of the byproducts the industry generates, obviously, it just becomes so much easier to be entrenched to also take some higher grade material and to grow the business from there. So if we want to do anything in the future in South America, it's very imperative that we start getting a trace and start holding something there. But as indicated to the market, we'll do so on a conservative basis.

22:24 If we then look at the operation and as I explained it to you in terms of what the scope is, there's still a lot of plants we can service in West Africa as well in South Africa. But that comes down to sourcing initiatives. And I believe there is scope. If you just take how long it takes to develop a tier one minutee for example, It can take longer than ten years from exploration down to licensing down to developing. And yes, then it probably operates for twenty or thirty years. But the question is, isn't there somebody that can extract the value from, as somebody said, the leftovers? And we really want to look at saying,

23:10 is there leftovers in the market that can be capitalized at quite a low cost? And we we I mean, the market cap is probably aging closer to £20,000,000. So we don't want to go invest a lot of capital. So we would like to look at low capital opportunities where we can go and leverage from what we've been successful in the past, which is actually creating value from those byproducts in the industry. And that might mean not just moving into PGMs, but also looking at opportunities into other elements. So we've spoken about the coal. The reality is that we made an initial investments for roughly 150,000 and with that we got the usage of a small circuit.

24:04 That small circuit will be used at our premises in Bononi for gold recovery, and we'll get probably our return from that in itself. And then we got the option to say, it is a technology company that's got specific interesting technology which can assist in terms of recovering value from some byproducts being generated in the coal industry. More importantly, we believe it's byproducts that's plentiful in terms of resource, which will be key in terms of diversifying away is to find resources that can just give us that support in the bottom line and a bit more clarity and certainty for the market. And that's why we're currently looking at those opportunities to say, well, is there value in there?

24:52 Our team is also looking at other stuff. And as we become aware of other places where we can add value, we will do so. That being said, we still believe there's value in gold. We still believe there's value in PGMs, and our focus is still there. We obviously have the resource on our premises that's containing assessed in 2016, which is almost now seven years ago, 82,000 ounces of gold. We've been adding the last seven years to that stock dam. And obviously, we're getting closer to a point where we can find the suitable solution to process that. The fact that we've got a potential partner in the likes of GOLDPLAT is is extremely positive. I mean, is something that they've been doing for a very long time. And we are now in the process of building a new tailings facility next to our current tailings facility.

25:47 And once that's completed, hopefully in the next four to five months, we will move off this current tailings facility that's containing the resource, which is basically our leftovers at the end of the day. And then we can look at recovering that value. Now before we can recover that value, we need to make sure that we've got authorization for pipeline. That process has been ongoing for some time. And from our side, we're just as frustrated as you probably are in terms of getting clarity around it. And once we have a bit of an understanding of the timeline, we will definitely share that with the market. Now so that obviously is is a great potential project that will probably last for four to five years in terms of the rate of processing we probably foresee.

26:36 And I'm sure there is other areas on the gold side that that might become a potential place to invest. Obviously, keeping our key focus of making sure the capital allocation is low, the returns is sufficient in terms of what we've seen in the past, and and obviously, it adds benefits from holistic point of view, including environmental considerations. The I've already spoken about how important our partnership with industry will be, and that's something we we working on and seeing how we can actually extend and become more than just the value offering.

27:22 And that's why it's important for me also to say, well, we need to invest in our own ESG footprint to make sure that when the mining groups comes to us, they're feeling even more comfortable. Why? Because what we're talking about is probably something in the past that's been captured by the more informal market in terms of trying to get value from a small bit of bi product here, small bit of bi product there. And GOLDPLAT has really been aggressive in terms of trying to formalize that side of the industry to convince the mining groups, firstly, not to throw stuff away, but rather to reprocess. Secondly, to create an avenue where stuff can be done responsibly and properly, and also go through the necessary regularly requirements being done under necessary licenses, whether it's from environmental perspective or whether it's from just a precious metal regulated perspective.

28:24 And and obviously, that remains key for us to make sure we we we remain compliant with these licensing activities. K. So that for me is basically the the the last bit of the presentation. If we I've got a few questions I just want to answer in general if I haven't answered them already. I think the first one is around, obviously, what is the impact and why do we see the impact on the electricity cuts in South Africa? And there's probably a bit more to explain here. I mean, firstly, unfortunately, GOLDPLAT is based in in an urban area in in Benoni, meaning that we are being supplied by the municipality on an urban line.

29:13 You probably will see a lot of the bigger mining groups that uses this thing plus more times than us is being supplied directly by Eskom. And sometimes it's easier for them to negotiate with Eskom directly in terms of saying, rather than shutting us down, let's rather work out the schedule where we can switch off certain plants and reduce our usage in a different way. Unfortunately, those options doesn't exist at that moment with us. That is also driven by the fact that the municipality is not controlling load shedding in which we operate. It's unfortunately controlled by Eskom. So they actually switch it off quite sooner in the network, meaning the option to really do things differently is quite difficult.

30:05 If we then look at the impact on the operation, I've indicated we've got part of our circuits that operates three sixty five, meaning that every hour lost is an hour you can't get back. You already invested your cost in terms of employees, into machinery, and a bunch of other stuff. So it is definitely not ideal. We've been able to to manage with within in that framework for some time. But at the moment, load shedding in South Africa is is is quite severe. We're probably losing between 20 to 25% of the hours.

30:51 However, I I believe there is opportunity that we can process and manage differently in the interim until we find a solution or the country find a solution with power supply. If we go and look at alternative power sources, we are looking at it and we'll continue to look at it. The initial indication is just, obviously, if you're if you're a smaller user, the cost per kilowatt is just gonna increase significantly. If you generate a lot of power, obviously, it becomes makes more sense. If you look from a solar point of view, I've already indicated we're in an urban area. But in terms of space, we don't necessarily have that. If you also look in terms of the period it probably will take to repay, it also doesn't justify if you consider that that we might see solutions in the near term from Eskom in any case.

31:52 But yes, we we will continue to investigate options available to us, and we will make sure that we we keep the market up to date. And obviously, when we talk about quarter three, we we will be able to give a market a better indication of of where we are in terms of the situation. I've already spoken about additional opportunities in West Africa. We we don't service a big portion of the industry. We need to evaluate different types of risk depending the countries we go in, but we do have engagements with different governments all over West Africa, and we still believe there's a lot of value that we can leverage there in the future.

32:42 I've already spoken about why diversify into other commodities, for example, coal. Now firstly, we have an opportunity in coal now. We're willing to look again at opportunities where capital required is is is not significant with with proper returns. And then define growth in GOLDPLAT for the next three to five years. I think in the previous slide, I was trying to do exactly that. And I believe there's still scope in South Africa as well as Ghana in terms of increasing our share of our current market we are covering. That's the first thing. But then from there onwards, we need to see if we can utilize our unique abilities and skills and willingness, to be quite honest, to look at these type of materials that other people are walking past or just leaving behind and see if we can extract value from those.

33:41 And, yes, that's basically it. Thank you, Jake, and thank you to to the listeners and the viewers. Werner take any questions. Perfect, Vernon. Thank you very much indeed, for your presentation this morning. If I may, I'll just bring back up your, camera there. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the q and a tab that's situated on the top right hand corner of your screen. But just while Verna takes a few moments to review those questions that were submitted already, I would like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published q and a can be accessed via your investor dashboard. Verna, we did receive a number of presubmitted questions ahead of today's event. And as you can see there in the q and a tab, we have also received a number of questions, throughout your presentation this morning as well.

34:31 So firstly, thank you to all of those on the call for taking the time, to submit their questions. And, Werner, perhaps if I may just hand back to you now to respond to those where it's appropriate to do so, and then I'll pick up from you at the end. Thank you. Thank you, Jake. Yes. And thank you for everybody that's submitted questions. It's obviously from from my side or from the board side. It's always helpful to get an understanding of the shareholders and the market's view and where they would like to gain more understanding. I've received a few questions around delayed accounts. Obviously, it's something that we are just as frustrated about, specifically considering the good results.

35:16 It would have been very nice to have spoken to you about this towards the end of last year. One thing I forget also to just just on a different point to talk about was just I mentioned we want to deal with our significant working capital lockup. And as a result, in the last week, we've appointed, and we still, I think, need to update our website, a new CFO

35:48 that will assist me in terms of managing that aspect to see if we can structure a few things differently in the company to not just reduce interest charges, but also to increase cash on hand. And I think mentioning that in the sense that we probably will be looking towards the CFO to review what has happened in the last financial period. Obviously, the focus up until now for me has been that the team needs to get the results out so that the shareholders can see it. We can start trading again. That has been achieved, and now we need to make sure that, obviously, this doesn't repeat. And my view is there's no reason for it to repeat.

36:37 I believe we will make the changes that is required to make sure we get numbers out on time and in time to be of value to the shareholders. And that necessarily is not what I'm saying it should be. If I can get it out in in line with what we did in the past, which was closer to September, October. That is obviously the aim, and it will remain the aim. The market can only digest information once they've got a clear view of all the data, and I'm looking forward to to achieving this in the future. We also then had a question around rather than ongoing seemingly random decisions to invest year, day, and everywhere, why not focus based returns and use surplus cash to pay dividends?

37:34 Alternatively, please clearly define the strategy you've adopted and explain how all these investments are 100% in line with this. So I hope that the presentation probably provided a lot of answers in terms of this question. In the end, GOLDPLAT is providing a service to industry. And that service means we're dealing with a lot of different types of, if you want to call it, random types of byproducts from different sides of industry. And that is where our focus will be and will remain. I think the last financial period has indicated excellent returns on the capital utilized. So I think we're probably on the right track. If you look at what our plans is for the future, I think it's been clearly identified.

38:24 GOLDPLAT is a recovery business. We've moved away from mining. We're looking to secure some resources and we're looking at recovering value and high returns from a small capital base and then provide the growth in terms of the share price and where we've got free cash returns in different ways or forms to the shareholder. Then there was a question around electricity supply challenges that I've already discussed. Just something maybe to add. I've I've indicated in the beginning, in South Africa, we've got two distinct type of businesses. The one relates to historical probably mining where we get some contaminated soils or oversized material left behind.

39:12 Then we have more the current business, but it's generated by the current industry. And the current business is not being impacted or the service delivery to the customer is not being impacted by load shedding. So there is no risk in terms of we losing clients or customers due to our current position or the area we are or whatever you you need what you need to go at. So I just want to make sure you get that comfort. I've spoken about the capital lockup and also why we do see the interest charges that we see. Obviously, flow is allocated in different subsidiaries. And you'll see probably if you go back quarter to quarter, if you go back year to year, at different times you add more cash in different subsidiaries. So it does fluctuate and it is something that's going to get attention by the appointment of a new CFO to restructure from a finance point of view to see if we can optimize that.

40:17 There's more questions about the accounts, which I've discussed. The target dates for issuing the 2023 results. I've indicated I want to get it out by probably the end of October, and that will be the aim starting as of today. There was a question around the investment into the spiral plant that's based in Mpumalanga. I've already mentioned it's not based in Mpumalanga. It's actually been moved to our site and to be used on our premises. And we then will be looking at investing into a larger scale of that technology to extract value, and we'll keep the market up to date in terms of the decisions we make around that.

41:16 Okay. There is reference in the potential takeover of a coal company. One of the opportunities is in environmental rehabilitation. Is that to be the future direction of the company? Yes. I think, I mean, the as I've indicated, the future would be in recovery. And I think if you look at recovery, if you look in the role that we're playing, there's obviously environmental aspect, and that's something that we would like to be more aggressive on in the future and make sure that where we operate, we need to operate in a way that we also can get the value from that aspect. If the permission for the pipe is received in June, how long will it take to take before construction starts and how long before production begins?

42:02 So that would be dependent on what we decide also from a capital point of view. You can be more aggressive, appoint more teams to do the construction quickly. The cost will probably be a little bit more. For now, I'll I'll give a con just a a figure a a timeline of twelve months for everything to be up and running. But the truth is it can be anything from eight months and maybe even a bit longer than twelve months. Okay. More questions around the accounts and the delay. What's the current situation with regards to power supplies in Africa?

42:53 Would you consider renewables, solar, etcetera, to offer you more reliability? I've indicated that we are investigating options. However, currently, we don't see that being feasible. There's been a question about why is it impacting GOLDPLAT more than than other industries. As I've explained, probably the bigger mining groups where the usage of electricity is lot higher, either certain direct agreements with ESCO in terms of how they manage the situation. I'm not a 100% sure. From our aspect, we've got very limited flexibility, and we need to make do with the power we've got available, and that's really where the focus is at this point in time.

43:48 Yesterday, South Africa budget announced a 125% tax credit for any spend on PV solar recovered in the first year with no minimum and maximum spent. I'll need to evaluate it. My understanding at this point in time, there is a minimum and maximum spent limit to this, and that the amount of benefits and tax credits you're all gonna get is not gonna be a lot, and it probably will not change your the business case around investing into solar. The other thing to realize to operate a plant, specifically to start up a plant, needs a lot of significant amount of power. So it's not just about investing in solar, it's also investing into all the equipment to step up the power to the right level.

44:41 And from that point of view, at this point in time, the amount of of capital required probably just won't make sense. I know the plans to expand in South Africa given the size of the company. Do you feel there's a risk in being geographically spread given the internal resources available? I think that is a very good question. I think at the moment, we've been operating quite successfully in two areas, namely Ghana and South Africa. Obviously, that's sort of in the same timeline moving to Brazil. We've we've built and we've operate we haven't built we've built relationships in in South Africa over the last five to six years. We've got a good a good employee in in in South Africa that we've built good relationship with, and we believe that we should be in a position to to handle these additional investments. As I've indicated, it's not gonna be of a considerable size to start with.

45:48 But also to add to that point, I mean, from what I've indicated in terms of what we wanna do and how we wanna grow, we probably will be needing we will be looking at increasing capacity and not just on the junior level, but also on a senior management and executive level to to drive our strategy and increase returns. The company suggests they would at least pay net smelter royalty out of dividends. She has another period that's gone without dividend payments. How much longer are we going to have to wait? Unfortunately, we haven't received a lot of royalties out of Calacol as yet. So from that perspective, there hasn't been a lot to distribute.

46:38 Obviously, Caracol is looking for finances to to ramp up their business. And as they will be doing that, as they will be generating royalties, obviously, we've committed to distribute value to shareholders. And where that becomes available, we definitely will do that. How many opportunities are they currently to deploy additional capital at 30% plus return on equity? I mean, obviously, if you consider return on equity and projects and considering the value of those projects, a lot of the times, most of our capital ends up into our business, and that is into working capital.

47:30 And that's where you're seeing the returns that's coming from. And that's where a lot of the cash has been been been absorbed in the future. We haven't done any significant investments apart from the repair and maintenance and dealing with the tidings facility over the recent past. And the reason for that is is we want to be comfortable that what we invest in will give us the necessary return. But I want to add to that, it's not just about the return. We need to also be aware of what GOLDPLAT is, what the risk is that GOLDPLAT is, and also make sure we diversify so that we can create a solid base for the shareholders for the future, which is also important. It doesn't help. We we just focus on the current business, extract cash, and and we can't, and we run into problems in the future.

48:27 What will it require for Ghana to deliver operating profit significantly in excess of 1,000,000 per quarter? Or circuits they're maxed out or is it limited by material supply? Well, in the end, the the recovery business is a sourcing business whereby the more material we get, the more we can process, the more value we can get. I believe there is still scope to handle more material in Ghana, and and we've got the ability to increase returns as as indicated here, but it's really more to a supply side than to a plant side in terms of requiring investment into plant and operations.

49:21 Okay. You mentioned that much of the potential scope of expansion in Ghana relates to getting government permission to export gold. Could you provide a bit more detail as to how you break the lock and get permission? Presumably getting one country to agree exposed makes it easier to get another to agree. Which of the West African countries have you got permission from and who is near to saying yes? I think we've indicated to the market we have moved material out of Mali before, and that we're working on getting material out of Makena and in Ivory Coast, for example. In some of those countries, we've actually got good relationships with some of the mining groups, and we've reached agreement to move material.

50:09 And we have been engaging with government, and I think it's moving in the right direction. But I don't think one country one country gives you a template, but you also still need to deal with the government and they and and everybody's specific requirements. So it doesn't necessarily give us that much benefit. What is the potential of processing artisanal tailings in South Africa, Ghana and South Africa? What are the main blocks and how profitable would they be to say the general recovery business? Obviously, there is it's a business we've been involved in the past, and it is something we are investigating all the time.

50:58 From our personal tailings point of view, obviously, you're sitting with various aspects to consider. And in reality, you will need to invest the money based on certain licensing conditions, and you'll need to have some sort of a binding from government to to be comfortable that that supply of material in the area that you clean up will come to you. I believe it can potentially be significantly profitable, but it all depends on the different regulations in the different countries and and also, obviously, the communities you will need to operate in. And and that currently, obviously, creates the drag in terms of committing more and more funds into that.

51:52 Will the CFO be a board position? Obviously, if it was, we would have announced that, and that's something to be evaluated in the future. Given the footprint of your site, will you run out of room to add a new plant that you that you acquire, or is there plenty of space left? So if we look at I mean, firstly, from from my perspective, I think for what we're currently servicing, what we're currently doing, we've got enough new plant to process. If we get a significant additional supply, I think we should still be able to handle it based on certain scheduling.

52:39 In Ghana, we still do have space to expand in terms of plant. In South Africa, we also still have space to expand depending on what the size of the plant is. If we're planning big big investments in South Africa, for example, you might need to look at upgrading water supply, upgrading electricity supply, but we're not currently planning anything to that effect. I've always lost shares of dividend. I hold 2,500,000 shares. I have had one dividend in all this time. Now many years ago, where they returned to me as a shareholder.

53:28 So, obviously, if if we look at return to shareholders and what we've been trying to do, obviously, this is looking back ten years to when we lost to clear the dividend. Obviously, since then, the strategy has always been to invest our free cash into mining with that being a growth strategy after we moved away from that four to five years ago. The focus has been growing the recovery business. I think we've done so successfully. Obviously, that change in focus and change of strategy is not just delivered on results, it's also increased the share price by more than a 100%, probably from five to 10 p, which is positive. And and that has been the main aim.

54:14 What has happened over the recent pause with our focus on recovery is that a lot of the money we've been making, we've been reinvesting into the business with positive results. And we are continuously looking at opportunities. And as long as we see opportunities out there that's not too capital intensive with good returns that fits our profile of a recovery business in the mining industry space, we will definitely look at that. And when that is not available, if we can free up some more cash, we definitely will look at returning value to shareholders. It was clear that when we had that availability last year, we did some share buybacks, but obviously reduced the shares in the market to give the current shareholders upswing, that seems to have been received positively as well.

55:15 Are you still responsible GOLDPLAT certified? I think that's a good question. So firstly, what we do is is we follow the guidelines of the LBMA. This is only guidelines, and and we request a big audit firm to audit us every second year and give us assurance that actually we are following those guidelines. We've got all the paperwork in place. That is quite important for us. And we're trying to differentiate ourselves from any other place that they might be in the market to indicate that that we follow the necessary care when it comes to handling material. Obviously, that for me is is the key to to sustaining GOLDPLAT into the future.

56:07 The boss here had issues with Random Foundry. I think our relationship with Random Foundry is is is really well. We're engaging on regular terms, talking, discussing, evaluating options. So I'm quite happy, and I'm looking more towards working with them in the future. Okay. Okay. Here's some just general comments. Are you suggesting the only way dividends will be paid is from royalty from Catechol? No. I don't think so. But as I've indicated, I mean, distributing value to shareholders can either be done through buying back shares or declaring dividends if we believe the the market rights the company correctly.

57:10 Obviously, buying back shares doesn't make sense. So until we believe it's the share price is trading at the level that's very low, we will be looking at that. Else, if we've got free cash, we'll definitely look at declaring dividends. Okay. Now a general question. Okay. There's a general question about dividends are okay, but I prefer you employ cash in the business if the target of the rate is above 20%.

58:00 Do you have any internal OS ROCEs thresholds you have to meet? Obviously, we evaluate every single investment opportunity on its own basis and on its own merits. And as indicated that there is more than just return to evaluate sometimes from an investment perspective. And and in reality, the most of the investments we have been making has been back into the business, and I think we can clearly see that has been successful. Even if we look at the last six months, we we've encountered some problems, and we try and sort of calculate what that return analyzed would be. It probably will still be good, although it's a little bit down from the previous year. So I think in terms of what the strategy has been from a GOLDPLAT PEC point of view, we've been focusing on the right stuff.

59:01 Do I believe as CEO of the business that we can still do a lot more? Definitely. And, obviously, the focus will always be to say, well, if if we don't have any place to put the cash, we will definitely look at at buying dividends if it means that the company is is valued correctly. Okay. There has been quite a lot of lot of questions, and I ran through them quite quickly. I'm not sure if there's anything more. Fair enough. Absolutely. And thank you very much indeed for being so generous of your time then addressing all of those questions that came in from investors this morning. And, of course, if there are any further questions that do come through, we'll make these available to you immediately after the presentation has ended for you to review. So then add any additional responses, of course, where it's appropriate to do so. Werner, perhaps, but just before redirecting those on the call to provide you their feedback, which I know is particularly important to yourself and the company, if I could please just ask you for a few closing comments to wrap up with, that'd be great.

1:00:15 Okay. Well, thank you, Jake. I'm I'm losing my voice. I'm losing my voice on this side. No. I think I mean, I appreciate the engagement. I appreciate the questions. And, obviously, we're gaining a lot of insights and understanding from from the shareholders. I think for me, the important thing is we've got a good cash flow generative business, and and management should do everything in its effort to maintain that into into the future. I think we've got a good view of what opportunities out there is and what some of the rescues we want to address. And we're quite excited to engage with the markets in a couple of months after we've we've put out interim results as well.

1:01:08 Werner, that's great. And thank you once again for updating investors this morning. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations? This will only take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of GOLDPLAT PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. So good morning to you all. Thank you very much.