Ensilica (LSE:ENSI) — H1 Results

0:01 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the ENSILICA PLC half year results investor presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged. They can be submitted at any time via q and a tab that's just situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Please just simply type in your questions and press send.

0:20 The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and we'll publish those responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, we would just like to submit the following poll and if you could give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company would be most grateful. And I would now like to hand you over to the executive management team from ENSILICA PLC. Ian, good afternoon, Good afternoon. Thanks everyone for joining us. Welcome to ENSILICA's half year 2025 results. That's for financial year end of November twenty twenty four. If we just go through and do the intros for the people that have not met us before, I'm Ian Lancashire, co founder of ENSILICA, electronics engineer by background. I started my career in the defense industry with PLC and then moved into semiconductors in the mid nineties

1:14 working for ENSILICA and Nokia. I set up in silica in 2001, originally as a semiconductor design consultancy, and then pivoted the company to one of a fabulous semiconductor company starting in 2016, and we'll cover other progress of that during the presentation. I'll let Christophe introduce himself. Hi there, Christophe Rodeman, Chief Financial Officer. Originally from South Africa, I began my career at KPMG in South Africa, and then later in The UK. I then spent some time working for a small niche pharmaceutical company called Archimidis Pharma, and post that as Group Financial Controller at Oxford Biomedica PLC, a company listed on the main market of the stock exchange.

2:11 I've now been with ENSILICA for just about a year, and looking forward to take you through our half year results. So highlights for half year one financial year 2025. We think that the financial results mask what has really been a robust performance by the company, I'm looking forward to taking you through that over the next few slides. So revenue was broadly flat at 9,300,000, about 3% lower than the than the prior year, but that masks an underlying 164% increase in chip supply revenue, increasing from 1,100,000 in the first half to 2,900,000 at the end of this half year.

3:07 That also gives us a lot of confidence in our ability to generate a 6,000,000 supply revenue for the full year financial year '25 and further increases in financial year '26. We've also had five new design and chip supply wins, generating additional future NRE of 38,000,000 and future chip supply of 62,000,000, which gives us a lot of confidence about our second half revenue targets and also our targets for financial year 2026. We now have four chips in supply and 12 chips in design, and a long term value of chip supply of $241,000,000, so an increase of 62,000,000 on what we had six months ago, which is very pleasing to us.

4:03 We've also refinanced our debt with Lloyd's Banking Group. We had just under 4,000,000 in debt across three providers, which we refinanced into one $6,000,000 facility with Lloyd's Banking Group, with a possible additional $3,000,000 accordion option, which is subject to credit approval. Thank you. I'll just talk through the 2025 highlights. As Christophe said, that increase in supply revenue, the whole business model is really based on building that supply revenue, and we see that we have 6,000,000 of that locked in. We delivered a large part of that in the previous period, and we have orders and the chips going through the factory to deliver on that for 2025.

5:01 As I said, we've won five new design and supply contracts delivering 38,000,000 of NRE and that really secures our revenue for '25, '26 and a little bit beyond when it comes to NRE and that's a large additive on our supply revenue. One of those is with

5:25 Siemens, so we had a second design win with Siemens as we saw the first chip go into production and we were able to name them in one of our RNSs, which has been very positive having an endorsement from such a high profile customer. In terms of other high profile customers, we had a 2,000,000 initially a design contract with the prestigious supplier of power and propulsion systems and there's likelihood for follow on work as we indicated in the RMS. And something I'll cover in more detail later is we secured £10,000,000,000 of funding with the UK Space Agency to improve our competitiveness within the satellite communication sector. Very exciting sector, and I've got a slide on that later.

6:21 I mean, is an illustration of our revenue model and the light blue there is the NREs, so when we talk about NRE non recurring engineering, that's the fees we get for designing the chips that later go into supply. As I said, we booked a large number of contracts securing that NRE revenue

6:48 for the period ahead. And then they go into tape out, and once we get the chips, the chips go to the customer, that's the gray area, and then we move into the supply phase, which is generating that valuable reoccurring revenue stream, which is really what the whole fabless model is based on. As I said, we've got four chips now in that production phase and 12 going through the design phase. Those five chips that we've won this year, we'll be getting a big up step in the supply revenue from 2027 onwards associated those chips, and we've got other ones coming online as they go out of the design phase into the tape out phase.

7:41 So just taking you through our income statement for the half year, as I mentioned before, revenues broadly flat, but that is underpinned by a very good performance in our chip supply revenues, up by 1,800,000 to 2,900,000. On the next slide, I'll provide further detail on the individual revenue streams. Gross profits, slightly below target of 40% at 37%. However, with the increase in NRE expected in the second half of the year, we expect that to reverse and to be much closer to the 40% that we're targeting as overall for the full year. EBITDA dipped into a small loss, but with the increase in EBITDA in NRE revenues for the second half from those five contracts, we expect that to reverse and turn into a large ish EBITDA profit for H2 twenty twenty five.

8:44 The same for operating profit, a small loss which should turn into a profit for the second half as those revenues start coming through. Thank you. So on the revenue split, we'd like to point point you in in the direction of the tab on the right, and especially the chip supply, which has grown substantially. This is why we set up the business. This is why we floated,

9:16 and really seeing that traction is really heartening to us, and we can see that coming through in the full year 2025, and then also into 2026 and beyond. So just looking at the individual lines, chip supply, as we said, at 2,900,000, a large increase, and we expect to see more in the second half. Consultancy revenues at $4,200,000 slightly below where it was for the last year. We expect to do better in the second half and come closer to $4,800,000 giving us that $9,000,000 for the full year. And then the NRE, it was quite a bit lower than the prior year, mainly due to the completion of our existing contracts.

10:14 We didn't see the benefit of the five new design and supply contracts. To be honest, in a perfect world, we would have had those contracts five months earlier, and we would have really seen them bring up the revenues for H1 twenty twenty five, but we are seeing that in H2 twenty twenty five, and that's really giving us confidence in our ability to achieve that large increase, which will get us to our overall target for the year. That will also be helped by a large ish tape out, which is planned for Q4 twenty twenty five. Next slide. So on the balance sheet, we just try to extract some of the key movements, so one of them is our intangible assets, which has increased by $2,600,000 That is our investment in our own IP and know how, as well as our co investment in customer chips, which we co develop with customer.

11:24 That's offset by amortization of 400,000, which is dependent on the chips that we sell. As the chip revenues go up, we would expect the amortization to go up in line with the increase in chip revenues. Cash has gone down to $2,800,000 I'll talk through the detail of that in the next slide, so you'll have a clear picture of what the movements were. External loans, we had just under $4,000,000 of external debt when we refinanced the loans for the $6,000,000 facility, and that includes the 5,700,000 includes $5,900,000 of remaining debt with Lloyd's, and then a 200,000 of capitalized costs of the refinancing.

12:25 The 6,000,000 loan with Lloyd, 3,000,000 of that is a term loan, which we'll repay over thirty six months. Thank you. So just working through the working capital, as you can see, there's a working capital outflow of 1,400,000 That is largely because the way we structure our NRE contracts, during the first 80% of the contract, we largely run it in the black, which means we receive payments and then the work is done. But when we get to the end of the contract, the customer expects us to first deliver the last parts of the chip design, and then they make the final payment to us. So as I mentioned before, the NRE in the first half was lower due to the tail end of those contracts coming through, at which we're running those in the red, so that accrued revenues are going up.

13:34 We are now delivering on those last parts, and those accrued revenues are being invoiced, and we expect those to all be invoiced by the end of financial year. The tax credit that was received in Q3 of FY twenty five, so that has now been received. It is in line with provided for the full year at $1,300,000 so in line with the expectations. Intangibles and CapEx investment, that is the $2,600,000 investment in customer ASICs and internal IP, which I explained in the previous slide, and then 400,000 of CapEx investment in a right of use asset.

14:24 Interest paid slightly above the prior year, that is due to interest costs and finance costs incurred as part of the refinancing. We expect that to drop down in the second half, because we have a much lower interest rate on our refinanced loans with Lloyd's Banking Group. Net proceeds from financing, that includes $1,200,000 net equity raised on the tail of the equity fundraising done in May, and then 2,700,000 gross from the refinancing of the external loans. Thank you. Okay. I'm gonna now run you through some of the markets, and as a reminder, sort of focus markets that are communication, automotive, industrial, and health care. I mean, the communication market, particular focus for us within that is that of the satellite communications market. And I mean, it's worth referring to an article with the Financial Times on Sunday where they spoke about the amount of money going into this market, and it's not all about just covering coverage gaps in their it's around giving sovereign control over Internet connectivity.

15:48 So, you know, you have your cellular network, and if your cellular network is taken out by either a storm or a drone attack, you've still got connectivity there. So it's something of national importance. It's not all about just covering in gaps. I mean, it's an area where we've been working since 2018, and we've been funded in this area with the European Space Agency to develop a number of chips, including an RF chip and and a beamformer chip, and we have a lot of interested lead customers for those chips. We've had further funding from the UK Space Agency to improve our competitiveness within the space communications market for developing a full chipset to address this market. And just to give you a sort of feel for the size of it, mean, Starlink have really proven the necessity and the capability of a LEO based satellite communications network and their user terminals, which you know, you consider to be like a set top box that every subscriber has. There's roughly 4,000,000 subscribers and there's about 600 chips in each one of those box. A huge requirement for chips and there's sort of three main types of chips in there: RF chips, the Beamformer chips and the modem chips to make up the chipset.

17:18 So a very exciting area, one where we've had recognition and funding from the UK Space Agency to address that. The other area where chips are used within the space communication sector is that of in the payload or that's in the satellite. Those chips need to be very high performance, very low power because they run off solar panels and batteries when the satellite isn't in the in the sun. And we've been developing the chip for AST Space Mobiles satellite payload. I mean, AST Space Mobile, they were featured in that FT Times in-depth article, as

18:05 well as being in a recent BBC article with Vodafone, making calls from sort of video calls from remote places. So, as said, we're very active in this area, and it's an area where there's lots of investment and growth. Lots We're also working in the terrestrial area in terms of communications on standard cellular networks. We have a contract with Sia Microelectronica, who are a supplier of microwave backhauls used in five networks. They've received funding from the European Union to support the development of new chips, and we have a large contract with them for the development of their

19:01 generation chip for their product. So so really excited there. Great growth great growth area. So the automotive sector. So, you know, the there's more and more chips going in cars. You know, there's about 3,000 chips in a Tesla, a thousand chips in a standard, Golf, and this is around electrification, enhanced safety features, infotainment, and, improved cybersecurity.

19:31 It won't be long before you'll find one of these satellite user terminals on top of high end cars, giving them constant connectivity. So our niches in this area around motor controllers, actuators, sensor interfaces, radar and lidar. Have one of our chips that we talked about before. One is ramping in volumes. We shipped 5,000,000 of those already. That contract's worth $40,000,000 over six years. One of those five awards we had was another automotive chip for an actuator motor controller, 31,000,000 over seven years, very much biased towards the supply. So, you know, those two contracts will run along generating nice reoccurring revenue.

20:27 The automotive car market is a bit like a club. It's very difficult to get in. But once you're in there, you get a lot of interest and, you know, with some of the big customers we've been able to name, you know, where we've got further RFQs from automotive tier one suppliers. So, you know, it's an area where there's still innovation going on and, you know, more and more silicon content in each vehicle.

20:58 To cover the industrial area, so the industrial market, there's again disruption going on there. I mean, would have heard of industrial IoT or Industry 4.0. So there's more and more chips going into production lines and equipment to

21:19 increase efficiency, precision, improve safety, and this includes things like AI at the edge, which includes the semiconductor content and also changes in cyber security requirements, which means the redesign of chips that may have been running for a decade or more, and they need to improve their cyber resilience driven by the things like the EU Cyber Resilience Act. So

21:46 we announced a second contract with Siemens Industrial Automation. The first one is now gone into production. And again, that will be generating good revenue. That all works like clockwork and as per the original schedule. We've had other design wins in this area, including a precision timing controller ASIC, which is worth 30,000,000 over ten years for high end industrial test equipment. So it's very much been very positive getting that, you know, being able to name Siemens as a customer, and that's really helped us uncover further customers, and we have a lot of interest in further opportunities with industrial other industrial OEMs.

22:37 So I mean, the healthcare sector, I mean, you know, again, that's a fast growing sector using more and more more and more semiconductors because of a lack of capital on our side and and also because of the longer time to market. Although the chip, you know, still takes the same time to design as the other markets, it needs to go into a product that then needs to go through its medical certification. So I mean, our focus has been on the other markets, which are shorter time to revenue. We're very much focused on driving our near term supply revenue as high as we can. So this has been sort of on hold for the short period until we get into the cash generation phase, which, you know, is end of twenty six, twenty seven, you know, we've become self sufficient in cash generation.

23:36 So just taking you through our objectives and ambitions. As supply revenues grow, we will start to move into the phase where supply revenue starts to support future investment, as well as overhead before non cash charges. I think as I mentioned, we expect chip supply revenues to go from 2,900,000 to 6,000,000 for the full year, and then expecting that to really grow substantially and double in financial year 2026, which allows us to become cash flow positive during financial year 2026, probably towards the end of the year. So we become self sustainable, and after that, we see positive cash flow generation going forward.

24:27 Our ambitions in the medium term, three to five years, are for annual revenues in excess of 60,000,000, and from the contracts, the 12 contracts in design for future supply and the four in supply, we currently see that assuming our NRE and our design revenues remain at the same level, we see that achieving that target,

24:52 or 85% of the supply revenues required to get to that 60,000,000 overall revenues, we will meet through our existing contracts. So we have a clear view of how we get to that 60,000,000 from what we've done currently, and we just need to execute on these contracts that are currently in process. Longer term, six to ten years, we have aspirations based on our order book and opportunities to get to $100,000,000 of revenues. If we win one of these large satellite opportunities, we would expect that to be in the six to seven year timeframe, otherwise it might take longer, but we definitely see ourselves achieving those high levels of revenues, and especially if we continue to win three to four contracts over the next twelve months and beyond, every twelve months, which is really what we are now targeting to do.

25:57 We see the global chip cycle moving ahead positively in 'twenty five, 'twenty six. Although certain global events will create uncertainty, we've seen some uncertain messages coming from The US the last few weeks, but really, we believe that our specialist niches will allow us to win three to four contracts every year going forward, and so we're quite confident that we can continue to build those annual recurring revenues, which is really why we started on this journey to become a fabulous semiconductor company. Our biggest challenge with winning these contracts is recruit the additional qualified engineers that we need, but we are working hard on that, and the team is really focused on delivering.

26:53 So we are super excited about where we can get to for the rest of the financial '25 year and then beyond. Thanks, Christophe. I mean, I'll just summarize before we go into

27:10 questions. We had an excellent start to the financial year 2025 with some really high quality design wins. I mean, that's given us good visibility of revenues for the rest of '25 into '26 and beyond, and we still have a strong pipeline of RFQs and opportunities. That chip supply is building that valuables, strong reoccurring revenue stream, which will improve our cash generation. And on the right there, you see the lifetime value of the chip supply of those 16 projects we have either in production now or coming through the design phase is worth £241,000,000 That's great. Great visibility to have and we still have a strong pipeline of opportunities of four thirty one million pounds So, you know, we expect other design wins to be coming in soon as well.

28:09 Ian, Christoph, that's great and thank you very much indeed for your presentation this afternoon. If I may just jump back in there. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the Q and A tab that's situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Just while the team take a few moments to review those questions that were submitted today, I'd just like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can all be accessed via your investor dashboard.

28:34 Ian, Christoph, as you can see there we have received a number of questions that were both pre submitted ahead of today's event as well as those that have made their way through throughout your presentation this afternoon as well. So firstly thank you to all of those on the call for taking the time to submit their questions And guys, at this point, if I may just hand back to you just to read out those questions and give your responses where it's appropriate to do so. And if I pick up from you at the end, that would be great. Thank you. Okay.

29:00 So first question. During this reported six month interim period, has cash flow improved, and do you think that the additional costs of employing staff from April 25 will impact your cash flow adversely? So I think we went through the cash flow for the half year in detail. How we see the full year progressing is because of those five signed ASIC contracts, we really see that NRE activity taking off and this will allow us to invoice those milestone payments, which we expect to cover our outgoings over the next six month period. We therefore only expect a smallish outflow of 800,000 and we expect to end the year with cash of £2,000,000 In financial year 2026, I think as we mentioned, we start really seeing that increase in supply revenue as well as the existing contracts and therefore we for most of the year we expect to be more or less cash flow neutral and then slowly start cash in the last quarter of the financial year

30:17 2026. Okay. So how much will the full chipset cost for the proposed ground terminal receivers be for LEO and the Iris two satellite? And there's another question that talks about the volume. I mean, commercial reasons, I won't go into sort of specific cost of the chipsets, but it's worth saying if you use the sort of Starlink example, the Starlink terminal as an example, I mean that has around 600 RF chips in there, a dozen or so B4 chips and an Amodem chip. And our estimates are that that is $300 to $400 worth of semiconductors and they have 4,000,000 subscribers.

31:20 So there's a huge semiconductor content within those user terminals and we would expect any other constellation like Iris to have many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of subscribers to make it worthwhile putting up such a constellation. And so next question, what were the staff numbers in h one twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five divided by technical and non technical staff numbers were 175, of which approximately 150 were technical and engineering, and 25 was administration SG and A.

32:20 I do apologize. I think we do have a VPN that we won. Mainly these will be in the technical category with very limited in terms of general and admin staff. What are the new order flows looking like by sector? What confidence do you have in making targets? So basically, we have, as we mentioned, $431,000,000 in the sales pipeline. That's a number of opportunities across the various sectors, so it does vary.

33:07 Short term, we are looking at one or two additional contract wins over the next six to nine months, and these are mainly around the automotive and industrial sectors, although things could change very quickly as we're in a fast moving industry. And it's worth saying those five design wins really under put you know, talking about the targets there, really under the targets for sort of 2526, so they're already booked. So what is the target margin for the back end supply of chips in contracts?

33:54 We're targeting average margins of around 40 to 50%, although that does vary depending on the chip. We've recently won contracts where we're expecting a margin of as good as 90%, but there could be other more competitive areas where we will accept the lower margin of down to 30%. So it does vary, but overall we're targeting 40 to 50%. What we are seeing is as our IP and know how improves and we design more chips, that allows us to be more competitive in terms of our pricing and also achieving higher margins over time in the contracts that we sign. Okay, there's one here. There seems to be a lot of players in the satellite beamforming technology sector.

34:48 Can you provide more details of what gives ENSILICA the competitive edge. As I I mean, this is an area where we've been working on since 2018. We've developed a lot of, you you know, unique ID in in this in this area. And, I mean, we're very much, you know, looking to put together a full solution. So there's more than just the RF chip. There's the RF chip, the beamformer chip, and other chips in there. So we're looking to put a highly integrated solution together, which minimizes power, minimizes cost by using standard processors. So we believe we've got competitive advantages and key know how in this area that we can get those design slots.

35:42 So next question, how are gross margins developing within the new supply contracts you have won? And also, how are you seeing those developing? So I think this is covered by the previous question in that we said that it's anywhere from 90% down to 30%, but on average we're targeting 40 to 50% and really because our IP and know how is improving, this allows us target higher margins and to slowly over time improve our margins. As we see supply becoming a much larger part of our revenues, that should improve our overall margins and these will start going above the 40% mark and more towards the 50% mark over time.

36:52 So another question. Clearly timing of orders and revenue that flows from them is difficult to be precise on, but can you give more detail on your confidence for H2? So we feel very confident about H2 and that is really underpinned by the strong performance in the supply revenues, which gives us confidence about achieving the 6,000,000 there. Also the five ASIC contracts that we won in the first half, unfortunately there is a lag from when we sign the contract to it until it really ramps up in terms of the level of revenues, which is why we haven't seen the uplift yet in H1, but we're really expecting to see that in H2. So we feel very confident about achieving our full year forecasts.

37:50 What is the average length of the supply phase of your existing contract? Do they have committed numbers of chips to be delivered during the period? Can the customer reduce this number at any point? So the average length of the supply phase of the contract is seven to ten years, although it could be longer and in a small number of instances it could also be as low as five years, but generally seven to ten years. The customer doesn't have a committed number of chips to be delivered during the period. They do provide us with forecasts during the development phase of what they expect, and then during the supply phase they provide orders due to the lead time and also give us detailed forecasts for the later period. So we have quite a good view of how much we're going to sell in the next six to twelve months in terms of our trip contracts.

38:54 We also have customers like Siemens which are very very precise in terms of their forecasting and these run like bot work, so that gives us additional confidence over the longer period. Yeah, I mean it's worth saying, you know, there's a portfolio effect as well, so some of them will over deliver, some them will under deliver, but, you know, we've seen one example with the automotive one. We'd assume that that was a £25,000,000 contract and that's been built into additional models and it's now up to $40,000,000. So you know, there's possible upside on these contracts as well.

39:42 Do all NRE contracts always have a supply phase? Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the answer is yes, unless it's manufacturing services. Yeah, I mean, we would describe if it didn't have a sort of supply phase, we would put that in the consultancy area where we're just just doing the design and not the supply. So the answer is yes. Where, Hal, would you find more qualified engineers? What is the attrition rate of your current engineers? Yeah. I mean, the attrition rate is very low. I mean, maybe as low as 5%. So we give our engineers very interesting work and, you know, very low attrition rate.

40:32 We've got multiple locations, including, you know, three three sites in the in the in The UK as well as two sites in Brazil and one in India. So, you know, we we look across there for the for the best talent, and we've got extremely good engineers and good engine you know, good people attract with new people. So we're we're we're confident we can we we can recruit to meet our needs. How is the $241,000,000 split between supply versus design in the four to 12 in terms of chips? Unfortunately, we don't have that detail to hand. What I would say is that it's generally spread reasonably evenly across the 16 chips.

41:26 Most of our supply is anything between 15 to 40,000,000 and we have quite a good spread which gives us a nice portfolio effect on these. I think on that point, $2.41 is the supplier revenue from the GIFs. It excludes the design revenue. What steps can we expect the team to take in order to get gross margins closely to that stated fully sync target? So it really is continuing to win ASIC contracts.

42:13 So the fact that we won the five already and the fact that we are going to be extremely busy in the second half of the year is really going to help us achieve that. So we need to continue winning a certain level of contracts in order to keep that up. And then on the supply side, as that grows, it will be important to win work which gives us supply margins above the 40%. The fact, for example, the one contract that where we expect 90% margins is going to really assist us in slowly driving those supply margins up once that comes into supply.

43:03 Of the pipeline opportunities, can you help us better understand the breakout between follow on contracts compared to new initial contracts? So on the consultancy side, there's follow on contracts in terms of on the design and supply side, this is an area we've moved in to recently, and the repeat business we've got there is with Siemens and all the others where we're just doing the first ASICs for them. Do you need to raise cash through replacing?

43:52 The answer is no. We expect our current contracts, one, will cover our outflows and therefore we expect to have cash of 2,000,000 at the end of the financial year, and then we expect our contracts to further cover our outflows together with our supply revenues until we slowly start seeing positive cash flows and we slowly start building those cash balances up. So the answer is no, we do not need to do a fundraise. The contract win momentum looks very strong. Would you characterize this as exceptional or do you think a similar rate can be sustained?

44:43 The answer is no. We had a very good period in the last six months winning five. I think if we would like to win five every six months, but it's probably not realistic. We are looking to achieve three to four in a twelve month period, although we would like to win five at least. Okay. I mean, I would just say that the fact is that we've got very strong customers. We we we get trade trade references and endorsement from those. So it's actually making it making it much much easier when we first started with this model in 2016.

45:28 I mean, it was a it was a lot tougher to win to win customers. So as as as one Australian golfer said, you know, the the more I practice, the luckier I get. So, you know, I think our hit rate is is going is going up a lot now. So but but, you know, we we don't have the capacity to do ten ten a year. Start if Starlink already have a working ground terminal, why is there need for a new chip designed by by us? So those Starlink chips were designed by Starlink, actually manufactured by by ST. They're they're not available on the open on the open market. They're specific to specific to Starlink systems.

46:34 What are the gross margins on the chip reduction, and how did f one compare with the prior two halves? As we said, it differs, but generally between 4050% that should be the same in the second half as it's generally the same supply products. And we would hope and expect that to increase over time as the new chips go from being in the design phase into the supply phase. Is your beam forming chip meter meant for large ground stations, small terminals or the satellite itself?

47:29 So, I mean, mentioned, are working on customer specific products for the satellite. But our target is the user terminals, so rather than the sort of the ground terminal, gateway terminal, which is the terminal that each subscriber has. Given the specialist technical nature of your business, who are your major competitors and do you consider you have key competitive advantage? So, I mean, in the semiconductor industry, you know, you have niches and certain companies would have niches in in in different areas. So, you know, depending on whether we're targeting industrial or, you know, automotive or the satcoms, you know, we we would have a different a different set of a a different set of competitors.

48:33 And also, really, volumes depend if we have very large volume opportunities, we then see the large semiconductor companies get interested in those. Ian, Christoph, thank you very much indeed. I think that's pretty much addressed most of the questions you've had from investors this afternoon. Of course, any further questions, we'll make those available to you. Ian, I wonder before doing so, before redirecting investors to give you their feedback, which I know is particularly important to you, whether or I could ask you for a couple of closing comments. Okay, thanks very much. Thanks everyone for joining the presentation and your interest in SILICA. It's certainly a very exciting time ahead. Mean, we've been very fortunate with those five design wins and really seeing the supply revenue flowing in. Very exciting times ahead for us. Thanks again.

49:30 Ian, that's great. And thank you once again for updating investors this afternoon. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the management team can really better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure it'll be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of ENSILICA PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session, so good afternoon to you all.