C.E. Info Systems (NSE:MAPMYINDIA) Q1 2027 Earnings Call

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the C. E. Info Systems Limited Q1 FY 'twenty seven Earnings Conference Call hosted by Arihant Capital Markets Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then 0 on your touch tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Natasha Singh from Arihant Capital Markets Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am. Thank you so much. Hello, and good evening to everyone. On behalf of Arihant Capital, I thank I thank you all for joining into Q1 FY 'twenty seven earnings conference call of C.

0:55 E. Info Systems Limited. Today from the management, we have Mr. Rakesh Kumar Verma, Group group chairman, MD mister Rohan Verma, joint MD mister Anuj Jain, CFO mister Saurav Samani, sir, the CS of the company. So without any further delay, I'll hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Natasha. This is Akeesh Verma. I'll briefly talk about Q1's the achievements, what has happened and the things that have happened. As we have reported on the stock exchange, we had Q1 FY twenty twenty seven revenue is up by 14.9% year on year to INR 139.7 crores, EBITDA at INR 56.1 crores with EBITDA margin at 40.2%, PAT is up 8.6% to INR 49.7 crores with PAT margin at 31.2%.

2:10 The details are there in what we have loaded on the stock exchange. We have also uploaded the investor presentation, where you can see the details of our performance. I would like to bring to the notice of all that our framework for reporting the segmental the market segments, we have changed from A and M and C and E, which used to be there for last five years, calling it automotive and mobility and the other one was consumer tech and enterprise. The new framework is simple, easy to understand and it is straight away automotive, enterprise and government.

3:05 So these are the three segments, market segments in which we operate and we earn our revenue from. If you have questions on those, we'll certainly be happy to answer that. The third point I wanted to inform all of you and it was already announced on June 30, the appointment of Rohan Verma as a joint managing director of the company. And with that, the company is now having stronger leadership and it should show up in the times to come. With that, let me ask Rohan to give you some of his perspective.

3:57 Thank you, Mr. Verma, and good evening to everybody. This is Rohan Verma here. So two broad points from my side. One is that and we have written this kind of in our press release and investor presentation, would love if you kind of go through it in more detail. But essentially, on AI as the first point, that AI is not new to us. We've been using AI for the last five plus years, maybe six, seven, eight years to update and enhance our maps. It's one of the reasons why our map is the best quality and built efficiently. We've also been building AI capabilities into our products and delivering more features and benefits to our customers. Now what we are doing from I mean, from the recent times is leaning heavily into AI, accelerating and increasing our push into AI native product development, AI native product offerings and AI native as an organization.

4:56 And that will really drive us forward in a as Mr. Ahmed said, in a golden era manner. Now the other point that I wanted to kind of talk about is so that people understand our business even better. We are a multiproduct, multi industry and multiuse case products, platforms, APIs and solutions company. Now for thirty years, what we have been doing is continuously envisioning the future and innovating at the cutting edge of tech, building world class and a wide variety of products and solutions. And those products and solutions, we have a rich legacy of serving thousands of enterprise customers across industry verticals, giving lot of use cases.

5:46 And that is why customers work with us. And each of our products in some way or the other is complementary. So that is the moat that we have, that is the flywheel that we have, and that is what is giving the opportunity of one by one unlocking this matrix of products multiplied by industry verticals. That will give us the opportunity to keep growing. We've kind of written down the details of what our MAP led products are, what our IoT led products are. And that and of course, Mr. Vama talked about kind of our market segments, automotive, OEMs, enterprises, government, we've explained the details of that, who all comprises in that. And you'll see that, that gives us a lot of opportunity to kind of grow.

6:36 There is no other company like us when it comes to deep tech products in India or even, I would say, around the world. And as the market in India and then slowly internationally will grow, this will give us the right to win and right to achieve excellent growth in the time to come. With that, we'd love to kind of take your questions. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may please press star and one on their touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question.

7:25 Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Anmol Garg from DAM Capital. And I have few questions. Rohan, firstly, congratulations on the JMD position. Just wanted to understand what is your key focus area for the first couple of years? Any particular industry or vertical that you want to focus on the business here on? That will be my first question. So see, there are lot of opportunities ahead for us, as I kind of mentioned in this matrix of products multiplied by industry verticals, right?

8:18 Some of the big areas that we've been seeing as green shoots, there is a obviously, there's a very strong core business where we have extreme amount of market leadership, which is the MAP based automotive business and the enterprise based MAP based enterprise business. And that has been looked after very well already. It's the driver for profits and kind of base load of revenue, and there also, there are growth opportunities. There are other places where there's stronger growth in the nearer term also possible, where we've been investing behind, which is the public sector business, which is government and the IoT driven business, which cuts across industries. So in public sector, as we talked about earlier, defense, oil and gas, these are two of the areas where there are a lot of opportunities, and we've been seeing green shoots.

9:12 Like that in public sector, to be honest, there are lots of other opportunities across our range of products, geospatial being only one such. But in the gov tech space, if you look at it in India, probably we have the right to win good quality business across our range of products and solutions, which we have kind of alluded to in detail in the presentation. So these are at least two of the areas that I'm focused on personally besides supporting the needs of the company, all the leaders in the company, wherever I can contribute. Sure. That's helpful. Second is last year, we indicated that there's a reduction in a contract in large auto EM.

10:03 Now just wanted to understand that did this happen in the 2H of last year? And if that is the case, then 2H of FY 'twenty seven, could it be much better this year, given that we have a weaker base over there? Anmol, it was not and it is not a reduction in the contract. Some of the vehicles probably are not OEM has decided not to have the entire technology, not just ours, but the technology all related to that not to put into the vehicle at last year. Now that may continue this year, but the two things are to be noted.

10:54 One is the worst case scenario could be that the contract period might get extended or they might change or which we believe they are in the process of changing where more vehicles will come with our technology. Sir. Sir, just wanted to understand when did it start in last year because that will give us an idea to look at our buy on buy growth for the next couple of quarters. It got time shifted. As Mr. Wama explained, this is time shifted. And second half is when the time shifting, let's say, started happening last year.

11:41 Otherwise, as we said before, automotive actually would have grown even more. Although as you see in that AEG split, that's an important slide that we have put, where for every quarter, for the last nine quarters, including this quarter, we have shown how automotive, enterprise and government segmental revenue has kind of evolved. And if you look at our automotive has been growing. I mean if you look at this Q1 year on year from INR26 crores in Q1 FY 'twenty five to INR46 crores in Q1 FY 'twenty six to INR 59 crores in Q1 FY 'twenty seven. But yes, yearly trend, it was INR 182 crores in FY 'twenty five, became INR 190 crores in FY 'twenty six, and that is where the time shifting had not, let's say, happened second half, that growth would have been more in automotive.

12:38 Understood. Understood. And one last thing is in this quarter, we have stated in our presentation that there was a four cover write off in one of the clients. So can you talk a little bit more on it? And is this amount recoverable over the next few quarters? Okay. First, let me tell you it is a onetime write off of a government client. Now had it because of that, the impact has been, which is almost like INR 4 crores, but the net effect of that is only INR 80 lakhs as far as the P and L is concerned. Had that not happened, our EBITDA would have been instead of INR 40.2 crores, it would have been INR 43 crores plus.

13:28 Right, right. So from that perspective, sir, can we expect that our EBITDA over the next couple of quarters could be in this 43%, 44% kind of range? What we have been always saying that we have kept this target for us to do a 35% plus for the whole year. So quarter by quarter, you will have to see what happens every quarter. Sure, sir. Thanks. Thank you for answering my questions and I'll join back in the queue. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Amar Moya from Lucky Investment. Please proceed with your question.

14:13 Yes. Hi, there. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Firstly, on the stand alone business, if I see the MAPMYED business, MAPMYED business had actually grown 6% only even in this quarter. And this is the hardware part of the business, which has shown a growth in the overall growth in a standalone piece? And secondly, if I see the subsidiary, subsidiary revenue has again came down. So what has happened to the growth? Why the growth is not coming into the core business? This, Amar, just to I mean, you have to look at the console. This stand alone will not give you the right picture because as we've explained before, some of the government, the IoT business, the business is won in MAPMYINDIA because MAPMYINDIA has credentials, and then it gets subcontracted for government to the government subsidiary. And for IoT, the execution happens from the IoT subsidiary.

15:19 So there is not much value in kind of analyzing stand alone and consolidated at stand alone. You should look at the consolidated and then you can look at independently, let's say, the subsidiary, but those are private listed. So at the consol level, what you see is MAP led and IoT led, which is showing this different dynamics. MAP led went from 98.2 crore to INR 98.7 crore and IoT led went from INR 23.4 crore to INR 41 crore. So and in that MAPMYINDIAL, I mean, we kind of talked about that for government specifically, I can say, government is a slow starter in the years. It is Q1 is generally the weakest in government. You can see the last nine years, nine quarters kind of trend.

16:15 So I hope that kind of gives you some sense of what's going on. If you look at automotive, it's gone from INR 45.7 crores to INR 58.8 crores, which is a INR 58.8 crores, which is a 29% jump. Then Enterprise has grown from INR 60.6 crores to INR 64 crores, which is a 6% jump. Okay. Okay. And secondly, sir, now in terms of the growth, how we should see the growth going forward because I mean because if I see the Q4, there were a few backlogs which we talked about on the government side, which were likely to be pushed in this year as a whole.

17:09 Okay. So then how we should look overall growth in this quarter on a console basis? This, Abar, what we had disclosed at end of Q4 or FY 'twenty six was an open order book of INR $17.50 crores, which had grown, I think, from INR 1,500 crores the previous year end. So that gives us strong kind of visibility into previous to 1,500 crores, it was about INR $13.50 crores was open order book. So that's grown healthily, and that's what gives us the visibility into future growth. I'm not we can't obviously comment quarter on quarter what is going to happen. You can keep seeing the performance every quarter. This quarter has been good quarter.

17:59 And we have a pretty solid open order book. Our teams are hard at work, and we are confident about what we're going to do in the time to come. Okay. So basically, you're saying on a full year basis, I mean, this open order growth will populate into the revenue and the growth should be visible because firstly, I mean, frankly speaking, the growth we are expecting, right, a company like us, I mean, should be a much higher growth. And specifically, on a core business basis, the growth should be there, right? I mean, the MAP led growth, if you see in this quarter is basically very, very flat kind of a growth. It is largely the IoT which is basically growing and that is the reason the profitability has also got impacted because obviously the IoT business will not have a similar kind of profitability.

18:51 I will suggest that if you understand the overall MAPMYINDIA business, it is MAP led, IoT led. It is automotive, corporate, enterprise and government. And within automotive, two wheelers, four wheelers, commercial vehicles like that. In enterprise, again, you have all kinds of industries, whether it is BFSI, quick commerce, e commerce or you name it, okay? And the government also, it is so many different verticals. Now if each of them, if you try start trying to look at that why didn't two year grow or why didn't quick commerce grow, it becomes it doesn't give it should it will not give you a true picture.

19:46 What you have to really look at is, one, or understand that once we are so well diversified that our risk is minimized. Imagine even one contract that got delayed or let's say, the one Anmol was talking about that it didn't impact us adversely to that extent because we were still diversified within our overall business. I suggest two couple of things. One is look at the annual scenario, number one. Second is look at the diversification that we have because the concentration also you people look at very closely that how much is the concentration. So even that is well diversified.

20:37 This removes the risk of a company's growth, a company's profitability and all that. Sure, sir. Sure. Sure. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank sir. The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities. Please proceed with your question. Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my question is on the order book. Obviously, we have a healthy order book that provides us the visibility. But within that, if you can like provide the mix of the order book, how much of that would be automotive, enterprise and government, so that would be helpful to understand which segment will drive the growth. And within the enterprise, which is the focus vertical for us, So, if you can update on the recent deal wins that we had, especially with the e commerce large e commerce player, where we are in terms of the traction there and the scaling that deal?

21:45 Rohan will tell you more, but I'm sure you are from Mumbai, correct? Yes. Now if you see what Amazon now is doing, have you... If you... I don't know if you have used Amazon now for quick commerce or not. Yes. But if you MAPMYIND is powering it, correct? Okay. And you can see our logo also at some places. So what I'm trying to make is every industry within the industry also certain activities get impacted by some of the technologies that we bring in. So just thinking that quick commerce will only grow or that BFSI will only grow, I don't think it doesn't give us any direct picture or direct clue.

22:44 What we look at is what the technology products platform we have built or we are continuously building now with AI, the delivery system is becoming much, much better and useful for the customers. So it's again a combination of all of that is what leads us to the entire growth story. But Rohan, you can add something. Yes. So we disclosed currently, Amit, the order book split by fixed pricing and volume based. So that last year, we would have given end of last year, meaning three months ago, we would have given that split to give a sense of kind of what is fixed visibility versus what is volume based. And there's a track record in terms of kind of order book to kind of revenue conversion.

23:36 Obviously, internally, kind of what we do is order book is at an individual order level, and there's a billing kind of that happens against that order. So we have but for competitive reasons, at least so far, we are not disclosing that. But obviously, this is how we track the visibility of the business at a market segment level, AEG, but also subvertical as well as kind of customer wise. But even before that, we have the whole funnel of customers that we are engaged with. And at all metrics, across the AEG, all three are looking good. And within AEG, the sub verticals, different ones are growing at different rates.

24:26 But that is what the effort of the team is to maximize the order bookings and then from there, the execution or the billing and hence the revenue. So but we disclose it right now, the order book as volume and fixed, and we do this once a year. Okay. Okay. So my second question is on the write off that we have taken in this quarter. So just a connection to that in terms of the government business that we have. So if you can tell us what part of your receivables would be from the government contracts? And in terms of the incremental business that we're getting from the government contract, is there any further risk of any kind of write off that we're seeing or any like collection delay that we see in the government contracts versus the others?

25:24 And if and in terms of our three year strategy, how we want to approach the government contracts? Yes. Also, sorry, just to kind of complete the answer to the second part of your last question, which is kind of wins across enterprise. We've talked about this mobility and logistics wins, the BFSI wins and the manufacturing and telecom wins as well as some renewable energy. So there are wins across the subsegments. Sorry, I'm just kind of concluding on that previous question. When it comes to government, yes, this was a onetime write off for a very specific customer that we had to take. In general, yes, we are carefully tracking the government receivables.

26:13 It is a longer cycle on government than on the automotive and enterprise. And as government has grown, it has kind of reflected in the receivables that the company has. I would still say that our receivables are far better than peer companies when it comes to government. But yes, we also have to be careful, and I think that's some of the things that we are looking at very carefully, continuing to look carefully. And we do course corrections as part of that, and this write off was kind of as part of that only. The reason we did the write off was when we were 100% sure that it won't it will never be able to get that revenue, we decided that it's better to do the write off than just keep it in our receivables.

27:10 Okay. And in terms of the overall receivables that we have, what part would be from government contracts as of the end of this quarter? Yes. Receivables, we must have shared in the FY 'twenty six end quarter. Our balance sheet, I mean, is there on the investor. I don't have it just off the top of my hand, so I don't remember. Q1, we have not given the balance sheet. But just like a quarter ago, we had given it. And yes, of course, the majority of the receivable will be from government. If the total was, I'm trying to remember, it was 120 crores, INR 130 crores of the receivable total. INR 176 crores was the total at the end of FY 'twenty six.

28:00 Majority of that was from the government, not like large majority, but I can't give the exact number, but it was a majority, but not like a large Okay. Okay, Ron. Thank you and all the best. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Gautam Rathi from PWC. Please proceed with your question. Yes. Hi. Thanks for taking my question and congrats on a good set of numbers. I have a few of them, but just before the questions, Mr. Wamai, you just clarified the impact due to this receivable write off is only lakhs on the P and L, right? But the press release presentation, which I read, it says EBITDA margin was impacted by 4% due to this INR4 crore onetime write off.

28:53 So I just wanted to reconcile because if I take 4%, it comes to the right number, but there is some disconnect, right? So if you can clarify that first. Okay. Let me make you understand in a simple way. Approximately INR 4 crores was the one where our receivable existed. That INR 4 crore of receivable and back to back there was a payment for INR 3.2 crore, okay? Now that so now I don't have to make that payment of INR 3.2 crore and I'm not going to get the 4 crores crores. So the accounting treatment of that has been... Net INR lakhs. Is net INR 80 lakhs.

29:45 Okay. So in your P and L, the charge off is only INR 80 lakhs. So that means your EBITDA margin, which you have written in the presentation that it is impacted by 4% is actually much lower. It's about 1.5%. EBITDA margin is impacted, but 18% actually impacted EBITDA margin is impacted more four percent. That's what he is trying to understand that how EBITDA margin is impacted 4% because that write off that happened has gone into the other expense. And that the payback, what we don't have to make the payment has gone as an other income. Understood. So your net impact is 80%, but actually the reported EBITDA is impacted by 4%, but it's coming in other income that is below the EBITDA.

30:39 That's what you're saying. Right. You got it. That's why. Okay. Understood. That's very clear. Understood. Second, just actually now two things. One is, can you share some update on your international regions, which you had quoted some time back? How is it going? How is it progressing? That is one. And second, also if you can help us understand the seasonality of the services part of the IoT business, right? Because my understanding or at least the way we look at it, we thought it's much recurring business and over a period of time, but there seems to be some seasonality there too. So if you can just help us understand that better also. Sure. Let me answer the second one first. It's easy. It's something that we've explained before, which is, see, any immediate growth that you see in IoT, it is always hardware first, right?

31:32 You see that reflected in our IoT numbers right now when we did the IoT led, where we kind of talked about how IoT led has grown significantly, I think from INR 23 crores to INR 38 crores, somewhere INR 23 crores to INR 41 crores, And you're seeing that reflected in the hardware, which is INR 7 crores to INR 23 crores. No, sorry, Arun, my question No, no, let me explain. This increase will lead to SaaS revenue in the time to come. That has always been the case. So there is the I understand the quarterly seasonality. Okay. I just want to understand... It's not a quarterly seasonality, Gautam. It's not see, our EBITDA on IoT or our services revenue on IoT basically starts subsequent to the hardware revenue, right?

32:28 So it is if we have for example, we talked about at the end of Q4 that two very large IoT accounts amongst other IoT wins came from the auto and enterprise business and the government business, right? Now necessarily what that means is that hardware will grow first, which will be lower margin and then the SaaS will kick in. So it is a continuous there's a previous SaaS revenue that is coming and then there'll be a new SaaS revenue that will come. So saying that is there a seasonality, there may it is like when growth starts, there'll be lower margin. And then as the margin will kick in later. So it's not a quarterly seasonality in a growing business. It's just a kind of S curve is not the right way to say it, but I hope you understand. I Sorry, you may don't know if I'm be just maybe let me just put my question better. See, I'm first of all, I'm not at all talking about margin. So let's not just the revenue part, Like you said, right?

33:36 So it's a... When it moves from hardware to services over time, which you get, it is a cumulative. Right? So every quarter, you keep on adding hardware. The revenue of the services will keep on flowing later in the coming quarter. So logically, the services revenue is a buildup quarter by quarter, which means the old revenue plus the new revenue will keep on stacking up, right? I am just trying to understand, if you think about it that way, so going from INR37 crore in Q2 FY 'twenty six to INR27 crore in Q3 to INR24 crore in Q4 and to INR18 crore in Q1 of the services part of the IoT revenue, that is the only seasonality. Yes. Okay. But you see, I mean, Q1 to Q1 is 16.3% to 18%. I think what is getting confused is you're looking at sequential quarter, but our billing cycles for services varies.

34:29 Might be yearly also, might be too yearly also or it might be monthly or it might be quarterly or it might be six monthly. So Q4, historically, if you've seen the IoT led is a large number. So comparing Q4 to Q1 is will not give you the picture. Actually, okay, fine. I'll just take it offline. Just if I mail the last one. The IoT, the international business, yes, business, yes, things are going fine. I mean, don't know in our P and L, we've shown the share of loss of JV. We've shown it in the P and L. Yes, JV. So you see that, that is reduced, I'm guessing.

35:16 Have you shown it in the financials? It has reduced. So what that means is some like we said, we are continuously kind of monitoring what's happening in the JV. That's part of our international business for Southeast Asia. Like that, we are making other smaller, let's say, investments in some other geographies, which we have talked about like Middle East or some other areas. So in those areas, one of the things that we're doing is trying to sell our full stack of solutions, MAP led and IoT led. So it's still developing. We have to be patient, especially in Southeast Asia. But it is interesting, exciting market from a medium term point of view. And we are continuously doing some course correction or the other so that we ultimately kind of win that win the international business also in a good way.

36:12 So in the current revenue, there might not be a material contribution directly into our P and L on the revenue side for That's it's international, not fair. Profit. Not material. Okay, understood. Thanks a lot. All the best. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Jain from C. E. S. Please proceed with your question. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. Sir, in automotive segment, just wanted to understand how is the mix in terms of the two wheelers, passenger vehicle and fees in terms of the revenue? I mean it's all shown in the automotive. We have explained it. So and we have also given if you see the highlights by we've talked about in automotive, the wins that we've had across a leading two wheeler OEM, even export MAPS program we have won for the existing passenger vehicle OEM customer for international.

37:15 Some of the deployments that have gone live is like Tata Sierra EV for the EV trip planning or new vehicle launches have happened across two wheelers like Suzuki, Vespa, Ultraviolet, Ampere and some IoT deployments which have happened in past and some other OEMs across line fit and aftermarket. And in general, kind of we are building up our business in a gradual way across this AI powered cockpit in vehicle intelligence, SCV and EV charging network. So I think it's on the right track, and it's looking good at a total level of auto. So I think that revenue more than 75% will come most probably to come from this passenger vehicle segment.

38:09 Is it right, sir? We don't break out sub vertical levels, Abhishek. So how is the revenue per vehicle in terms of the two wheelers, passenger vehicle, CVs? And how much the increase you are expecting in coming quarters? This is all bespoke. Price is a function of product and use case and customers, and it's all negotiated bespoke. So I can't speak to individual prices or even it's all competitive information. Got it, sir. And how is the share of business in the large passenger vehicles OEMs like in Maruti, Hyundai and others, Mahindra and Mahindra?

38:57 Yes. We are the providers there. We are the suppliers there. And how much is our share of business in them? We are the supplier there. We have all the shares in these companies, Maruti, Humayindra. Okay. Got it. So sir, just wanted to understand what kind of the growth you are targeting in the automotive segment in this year for FY 'twenty seven, mean, it's looking good. I mean, target, I mean, I'm not going to talk about quantitative target, but the objective is to keep winning more orders and to execute on the orders and to kind of, as I said before, we have multiple products for multiple products, platforms, APIs and solutions for every vertical, including automotive and its subverticals.

39:53 And subverticals. So I mean we are continuously kind of adding. And if you look at the history of our automotive highlights, we have been sharing it for like five years, you'll start seeing the expansion of our product range across OEMs. And so as that increases, the revenue will also increase there. The next question is from the line of Pranaya Jain from Banyan Tree Advisors Private Limited. Please proceed with your question. Hello, sir. Can you hear me? Yes. Hello?

40:39 Yes. Please proceed with your question. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. Number one is that I want to understand how a typical contract with an automotive client and an enterprise client look like. If you can spend some time on, you know, what is the typical tenure, how is the pricing structured at inception, what are the provisions for, say, a price escalation of scope scope expansion over the life of the contract? That would be great. So that is my first question. Yes. In the slides in the investor presentation, we've gone into fair amount of detail to explain the business description. We've talked about products. We've talked about industries.

41:27 We've also talked about the way that we deliver our various product platforms, APIs and solutions. And there, we have talked about the revenue model. So I'll kind of point you to that where we talked about product licensing and subscriptions, which is that MAPS as a service, Software as a Service, Platform as a Service. Then we do device sales and device as a service, where we provide it either on a CapEx mode where the customer buys the device or the customer is leasing the device along with the SaaS that he's paying us. And finally, we also have the option of or in some cases, providing the delivery of the solutions, services and systems integration. So you can think that we are both an OEM as well as a in some cases, we are able to do FDsystems integration type of work, forward deployed engineering and systems integration.

42:22 Pricing model is either one of per vehicle or per API transaction or per user or per solution, whatever is applicable for that particular customer and product and it's for certain time periods. So we've explained that. I think be good if you kind of go through that. It'll help you understand. Yes. I have gone through that. So I also wanted to understand, typically, what is the tenure of the contract, like, say, some... There's no typical. Varies. I mean for some customer, it could be five years, some customer, could be one year. I mean there's no typical. It is all bespoke. I mean the model is that we are what we explained that, but it is a portfolio of kind of deals.

43:14 Right. Understood. Understood. And second question is on, say, wallet share expansion. Like within the same customers, how do you grow your sales? Yes. That is what we explained that for every customer, okay, we have multiple use cases for their variety of needs based on our multiple products, platforms, APIs and solutions. Actually, that is what makes us interesting and differentiated to the customer also. Unlike any other company, there are multiple products we can offer and also we can do solutions, especially in our segments of this MAP led and IoT led, which we have detailed out of what do we mean in MAP led, what do we mean in IoT led. It's all deep tech. It's all digital transformation driven.

44:08 It is all Sunrise sectors, which have been adopted well in the past and some which are getting adopted now and in the future. So in every customer, there are opportunities for wallet expansion. And that is what the cadence is for our teams in existing customers. And then we also kind of replicate what we have done for that customer to other players in that industry. And that's kind of how the business kind of the order book and then the billing revenue kind of grows. Understood. Got it. Thank you. Thank you, sir. The next question is from the line of Jainham Doshi from C. E. P. M. S. Please proceed with your question. So just wanted to confirm, like, the reason for lower gross margin. Is it primarily due to the change in the product mix, like higher growth of IoT hardware sales is leading to such, like blended margins or how is it like, if you can give a color on that?

45:09 You're talking about lower margin means lower EBITDA. Gross margin, which is yes, yes, that is also okay, like we can talk about EBITDA also. That will be We have not talked about gross margin. We have given you the idea of EBITDA margin, correct? Correct. But the mix is different. Yes, you are right. The mix for this particular quarter was different. That is what we've kind of mentioned, I think, somewhere, yes. And you can see that reflected in that hardware mix versus services mix. Understood. Understood. And sir, how are we evaluating the digital twin cities opportunities which is unfolding? Like, are we looking at such opportunities aggressively?

45:55 And with respect to the Naksha team being launched by Maharashtra government, will we play a role there? Like just to understand on the government side, sorry. Yes. We are pretty well positioned in Distal Twin from a capability point of view. I think more we are platform company there with not just geospatial but IoT and process twin. We are, of course, looking at all of these carefully. We are careful in terms of what we picked, somebody was mentioning before, what will lead to good receivables versus bad receivables. We have seen that issue play out in the peer companies, and we want to be careful there. And so are looking at that space quite aggressively, and we have strong capabilities, but we'll be calibrated in our approach.

46:48 Understood. Understood. Thanks a lot. That's it from my Thank you, sir. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments. So with I mean, just thank you everybody for kind of joining and we look forward to the year to come. Thank you, sir. On behalf of Capital Markets Limited, that concludes this conference call. You for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you. Thank you.