CDON (Stockholm:CDON) Q3 2026 Earnings Call

0:00 Thank you and welcome to this earnings call. Let's jump right into a recap of Cedion Group. We consist of two different marketplaces, Cedion and Findic. Starting from left, we have 3 million active customers and 100 million annual visits. Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab So to give a high level summary of this quarter, we had a strong turnaround in the quarter, weak start, but the big inflection

1:31 point came with a big tech investment that was released that we have been working for quite some time. Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab I was held back by non-recurring costs, mainly from or only from our one P business that now we're closed down in the last quarter and also our front loaded investments, mainly in brand marketing in the quarter.

2:21 And our European giants kept up the pace and grew with the growth of the company as well. And now keep a share of total sales of 6%. Looking into our numbers, we start with our top line growth, GMB, 568 million SEK in the quarter and a 18% growth. So I'm going to pause here a little bit and double click on this number. We had a quite tough start. First of July, we added the EU tariffs of four euros of all goods coming outside EU into EU. That had a big dent on Fyndik's sales.

3:07 throughout the quarter we worked intensively to turn this negative trend around and released one quite big thing that we have been working on for quite some time now and it's a product data service enriching and structuring all of our millions of data in a better way we are launching that in three steps the first step was to be able to identify copies of the same products where we have multiple product cards belonging to one product. Now we are able to showcase only one of those products and be able to expand that into our feeds into Google.

3:53 And that enabled us to really expand our Google feeds, which is our main marketing channel. We did this by the end of August, and that really pushed the sales. And what happens when we're doing changes like this is, especially when it comes to Google, is that first we see an uptake on GMB. But we don't get the marketing efficiency instantly. That comes with a lagging effect. And this is what we see why GPAM is lower than last year. we didn't really pick up the profitability in the quarter, but it comes later on on this. We also have the one P non-recurring cost and we also have the front loaded brand marketing cost.

4:44 We released our new brand marketing concept 21st of September. Loading 3.8 million SEC in costs, both production and media in the quarter, but obviously don't really getting the upside already yet in the quarter. Usually you talk about maybe a lagging effect of three to six months on big brand marketing investments. Definitely not nine days as in this quarter. This then trickled over to a weaker EBITDA, minus 5.4 million SEC. Adjusted for these non-recurring and front-loaded costs, it was, sorry, only adjusted for this 1P non-recurring cost, it was 1 million SEC in EBITDA.

5:35 If we look into the quarterly performance now, we have four consecutive quarters with double-digit GMB growth. We're very happy with that. You can see that GPAM, our most important KPI, is though negative performance compared to last year. In this quarter, if we take away the 1P cost and the brand marketing cost, The comparable G-Pen basis shows 1% growth versus last year. But still, as I said, we have lagging effect, both from our Google feed expansion, but also from our brand marketing investments. Looking into the quarter, here you can see the weak start, especially for Fyndik, it was very weak. So Cedeon really carried the first two months of the quarter.

6:30 And then we had this really strong increase in sales for both segments because we did this expansion both on Fyndik and Cedeon. And the first 20 days in October, you can see it carries over. We continue to have this strong growth. And looking into our giants, we continue to grow our giants. Since we had 32% growth in September, it was quite hard numbers to keep up with, but our giants did. So they kept up with that increased growth. Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab I know a lot of information, but let's focus on the middle part of this slide.

7:40 We start with retail media. We are lagging a bit behind here. We still don't have any revenue. We are live on both segments. But we see that we need to continue to expand ad placement, expand ad placements on the site to make sure that we get more eyes on the retail media ads. This is being released now in the fourth quarter. So now we really see that we have revenue ahead of us. Ab Ab Ab Ab Only this year we have been able to move 130 merchants that previously didn't sell in markets outside Sweden into the other Nordic countries.

8:53 And then brand marketing. I will in a bit talk a little bit more on that. But our brand consideration, which is our main KPI that we're showing here, continues to have a small decline compared to last year. And just a reminder, we launched 21st of September, so last week in the quarter. So obviously we didn't expect any effect in this quarter. And then last but not least, we have our tech and AI resource boost. We don't share any external KPIs, but we can show two quite big initiatives that we now have launched. The first is, as I mentioned before, the product data service that is released. The first step is now released where we can group duplicated products into one product that improves the customer experience and also obviously improves our marketing capabilities.

9:58 We are now looking into expanding step two and three, where we can enrich the products with much better and structured data, colors, sizes, dimensions and such. Ab Ab Ab Ab The second part is that we now have a new internal search and we choose to go with Google. We have heard they are good at search and we have now implemented their Google AI commerce search.

11:00 and we can already now see an improvement in commercial rate. And for us, the internal search is especially important. Having millions of products, you need a good internal search. So we see that this can really give a positive effect, even though we haven't enabled all features yet. And in the future, we see also a capability here to have Help me out. Recommendations? Conversational search, where you can, like an LLM, have a conversation with internal search and thereby find products that fits you, your budget, or the occasion you're looking for.

11:47 All right, jumping into our brand concept for CD-ON. We call it förväntade allt in Swedish, expect everything, which aligns well with the vast assortment that we have. And now we try to take this out in different commercial films. This new CD-ON brand identity was launched on 21st of September. Outdoor in Stockholm and Gothenburg, and nationwide YouTube, social media, and programmatic display. We have invested costs of 3.8 million in the quarter, whereof 3.3 is on CD-ON, both media spend, but mainly also production cost.

12:32 And now I will showcase the first two films. One of them already launched and the other one is a sneak peek. First time actually officially showing that film as well. The first film is an introduction film, a musical, where we are introducing our new world of CD-onlings. CD-on. Are they not just CD? No! Forventa dig tv, forventa dig ljud, forventa dig loktong og allt för njud, forventa dig spelkonsol, handkontroll, forventa dig bak på kaffemaskin, forventa dig mobil och skad i tusental, forventa dig airfires, ja en hela slag. Ab Ab Ab Ab Yes, expect everything. And in marketing, you usually talk about

14:02 the reason to speak. And now it's a big occasion when it comes to consumer electronics. It's the biggest gaming release in 13 years. And of course, we now introduce our CD-on-links in this world of Grand Theft Auto. 13 years I waited for this tell me you brought the hardware This is perfect Set everything up and take the winter off if the feds ask I'm dead I Yes.

15:29 And I cannot imagine a better segue than this into the financial numbers. So over to you. Thank you very much. I guess that's my reason to speak. And let me walk you through the P&L top to bottom. So, as we spoke about, GMV up 18%. Fourth consecutive quarter, almost five. Very happy about that. CDON 21%. Findic recovering nicely, 11% up on a quarterly basis. Take rate was down, and that reflects two things. The non-recurring 1P costs burdening gross profit, and CDON's shift towards lower commission categories. We'll cover both later.

16:15 Marketing cost was up 36% and includes the brand marketing spend. That leads to a GPAM of 47 million and a margin of 8.3. If we exclude the 1P costs and also brand marketing on a comparable basis, we were slightly up 1% compared to last year. the adjusted EBITDA of 1 million compared to 11.5 a year ago when we exclude the 6.4 million of the total 1p closure cost and adjustment. So the reported numbers don't tell the full story. Let's dive into and look into some of the non-comparable items. Three things. The 1P impact, non-recurring, non-cash costs from cleaning up the remaining balances related to our 1P business.

17:07 2 million of that sits in COGS, impacting gross profit, and 4.4 in OPEX, in FX and bad debt. With these final costs booked, we can finally start to look into the future and put this chapter behind us. Brand marketing. We launched the films as we spoke about on September 21st. That cost does not compare to last year. So I hope anyone in Stockholm and Gothenburg have had a chance to get introduced to the CD-ON links on buses or trams or train stations. And then we also have some growth initiative OPEX. Front-loaded investments hitting our P&L now with expected returns over time. So GMV up in CDON to just over 400 million.

17:58 Consumer electronics, but also strong sales in several other categories, as well as the giants contribute. We also saw very strong sales in the non-Swedish market that we're very happy about. Findix GMV and Findix Quarter in general was really a tale of two ends. I guess one could compare it to Swedish summer in a way. Strong spring, which set up and pegged the expectations, and then disappointment in July and August. And then we had a lovely ending, as we typically do in September. The tariffs really burdened us in July and August, and we were able to address it through the improved, new improved and broader product feeds to Google Shopping. We have seen that the new fee has impacted our average order value, and the prices have been increased by the corresponding three euros.

18:53 We anticipate another two euros of a handling fee to be introduced in November, and we remain on our toes to understand how that could impact GFD going forward. And in September, we were very happy to see that GMV for Findic reached 36%, and that has also carried on into October as well. So we saw a lower take rate as a percentage of GMV in Sidion, down to 13.4 or 13.9 if you exclude the 1p costs. It is... I mean, if you then exclude the 1p cost, the remaining is a conscious movement.

19:43 We have been working to optimise both gross profit and gross profit of the marketing in absolute terms, not optimising for a margin in percentage. The categories that we are currently focusing on, electronics, mobility, but also our work with the European giants, have led to lower commission. We believe that that traffic is important. It adds both attractive assortment, but also attractive traffic volumes that we are looking to build on going forward. Findic take rate was all in all stable, even if it was a quite significant quarter. We saw the effect or the reducing contribution of our fixed commission when average order value increased.

20:30 At the same time, we saw higher shipping revenue in a quarter. So net-net, the commission, sorry, the take rate was stable in the quarter. Marketing cost increased in CDON to 8% or 7.1 when you exclude the brand marketing spend. The marketing cost in Findrik increased to 14.4 or 14.1 when removing the brand marketing spend. The underlying trend is a channel shift towards our paid traffic channels. However, it is important to remember that the efficiency or to understand that the efficiency in those channels held up during the quarter.

21:16 It is clearly a priority to reduce that dependency and the work that we do with our brand marketing campaigns, the work we do with SEO and also customer experience, all aim to reduce that dependency and increase our traffic that is direct coming through LLMs or organic searches on Google, for example. reported TPAM came down in CD-ON to 22 million, but was slightly up if you were to remove the 1p costs and non-comparable brand marketing. G-PAM in Fyndik similarly down slightly and the margin likewise. And when you exclude the brand marketing there as well, you saw it more or less in line.

22:05 The important part and what to remember is that on a comparable basis, G-PAM held up. Operating expenses did increase in the quarter and amounted to 53 compared to 41 million a year ago. That increase includes the 4.4 million of OPEX non-recurring one-play costs and also the 1.5 of growth-related OPEX. On top of that, we also have another 2 million of cost that was related to an incident when we launched the new search during the quarter. We have learned from that incident and we have addressed and resolved it and now the search is both performing from a cost perspective in line with what we expect and we have seen the conversion increase that looks very promising.

23:00 This is not included in the 48 million comparable OPEX as it's rather a cost of or a risk associated with our line of business. The remaining delta to last year reflects higher software cost, for example, with the new product data platform that we spoke about, but also the fact that we are 76 compared to 71 full-time employees compared to two years ago. Reported EBITDA of minus 5.4 compared to 11.5. Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab On the right hand side, reported LTM EBITDA of 3 million, which is a significant step from the approaching 100 million target that we have in 2027.

24:08 However, we do remain committed to it for three main reasons. 1P is out of the way, both in terms of the adjustments and also the negative contribution it has had for several quarters back. Secondly, we see that we have seen the effect on when comparable G pump starts to follow the growth of GMV in September and we expect that into October and Q4 as well. And then thirdly, our cost base is largely fixed. Yes, it has come up versus last year, but those are conscious decisions, and we don't need to scale that significantly further to match the GNV growth required to reach the 100 million target.

25:00 A few words on cash. Operating cash flow before changes in working capital, negative 2 million compared to positive 11 a year ago. mainly due to the lower EBITDA. Working capital contributes 4 million in the quarter, bringing operating cash flow to 2 million compared to minus 24 million a year ago. Our cash position has improved almost 140 million end of quarter compared to around 90 a year ago. It reflects the higher merchant liabilities, which are a natural consequence of the growing sales. And that is also why our merchant liabilities has come up to around 164 compared to 128 a year ago. So quite an eventful quarter.

25:45 A few adjustments related to the one business. But what's important to remember is the infliction point and the growing momentum that we saw towards the end of the quarter. And we're really looking forward to, at least I'm looking forward to Q4 very much. Back to you, Fredrik, for additional concluding remarks. Yes. So we really have a texture of an infection that I was talking about September, Jimmy, 32 percent, and they carried momentum into October as well. We have finally closed down how the one P costs and we now operate a clean three P business, both operationally, but also in our books.

26:30 and really have a big focus now into Q4 with our operating leverage ahead and still going for our ambition of approaching an EBITDA of 100 million SEC for 2027. With that said, we open up for the Q&A. All right, thank you. Thank you so much. Let's dive into the questions. So first, I guess, on the GMV growth, like you mentioned, of course, an impressive acceleration towards the end here. Could you elaborate a bit on this, the product feed adjustment that you made and how this maybe sort of counteracted the headwind from the tolls that we saw in the market? Yeah, so... We have had a kind of a mess when it comes to our structure of products where we have displayed multiple products. So we could have a PlayStation 5 being displayed 10 times from 10 different merchants. Nobody likes that type of display, neither Google or our customers.

27:34 What we now in step one have been able to do is to group them into one and to identify that these 10 different PlayStations actually is the same. With that information, we have been able to dare to expand our product feed immensely compared to before. Before we were adding much more business intelligence into the feed, which products to push into Google, how much they have sold and the timing of them and so on. Now we have been much more aggressive, so to say, to include much broader assortment in the feeds up to Google. that have had a very positive impact, especially on Fyndik, but also on Ceylon.

28:22 Still, we have also, that's not the full story, though. In Ceylon's case, we still have new supply, new giants coming in, adding to the sales. In Fyndik's case, we also have this EU tariff of three euros. I think I said four euros, but three euros. And that really hit us hard in the beginning. But then after time, we have seen that we have reached some kind of equilibrium where our merchants have changed their prices, also assortment, according to these new tariffs. And we believe that we haven't been hit as hard as our competitors because we have a little bit higher average audit value. We don't sell stuff that costs 10 kroner or 20 kroner.

29:14 We sell stuff that costs 50 to 100 kroner. And then adding three years on that doesn't have that big of a negative impact as of our mainly Chinese competitors. And that's also a tailwind that we have seen occurring towards the end of the quarter as well. Yeah, yeah. And if we look at then the product feed adjustments, and you mentioned that you've done this, is this across the board or is there still work to be done here? Can you do additional adjustments to your assortment, you know, going forward, maybe helping into the fourth quarter as well? Yes and no. I would say we are a little bit hesitant to do bigger changes now moving into the peak season. But that aside, we still see some quite interesting tests to be done in our feed.

30:09 We're looking a lot into enriching the feed also to provide Google with better and cleaner information than we have today. And we believe that could be an interesting test also moving on. Yep, yep. And considering these adjustments then, and also, like you mentioned, the price adjustments and the merchants that they are acting, do you feel confident maybe also, you know, because we will have an additional hike on this toll going forward that we see in November, you mentioned that, do you feel confident that you can counteract that in a similar manner? I'm quite humble about these EU tariffs, to be honest. It hit us a little bit harder than we thought in the beginning, and then it turned around better than we expected also, to be honest.

30:57 Now we are adding two euros on the already existing three euros. Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab Okay. I also think it's worth emphasizing a few things around that. I mean, firstly, the supply chain is now custom to these kind of fees.

31:42 They know how to operate with it. They understand the dynamics and the price elasticity and demand elasticity. So I would not expect kind of same behavior this time around. I think they would be more aggressive on shifting around prices, packaging, et cetera, to rather counter and offset that. I also see a movement in the supply chain in terms of localizing supply, which we haven't seen before due to the de minimis fees, which really premiered direct from outside of EU shipping into the EU. And then, I mean, clearly our price point has come up during the quarter. Then adding another two or some top of that would have a less kind of percentage wise impact to it. And lastly, I think the consumer also is more accustomed to the kind of fee on top of it. I think there have been several articles about how this impacted both consumers and non-EU marketplaces.

32:46 Definitely impacted conversion rates, but it could perhaps then also push and consolidate purchases into fewer purchases. I guess that benefits us as well. So I think the hike or the shock will be less this time around is perhaps my observation to it. Yeah, so maybe an adjustment in share of wallet as well as total consumption is redirected in some sense then. Potentially, yeah. Okay, yeah. We have a question here on the line on AI agents. Marketplaces like Amazon have blocked most AI agents from accessing the marketplace. What is CDON's approach with respect to these agents and shopping on the marketplace? The other way around. We should enable everybody to find their ways into our assortment and to do the shopping on both our segments the best possible way.

33:37 We believe we understand why they're doing this. But for us, it's obvious that this is a new channel of the shopping experience that we must be the best we can be at. Okay, thank you. And then if you go to the take rate, I mean, you spoke of the take rate in both of these segments. But if we look at the CD-ON segment, do you feel in sort of integrating, you know, the giants, have we reached maybe a level of maturity in terms of take rate here? I mean, there is some initial discounts. How are they sort of working together with also the product mix? Can you maybe elaborate a bit on the mix between these effects? I mean, I think it's really a mix of both, right?

34:22 I mean, yes, certain merchants could be on an introductory term sheet to get them off the ground, to make sure that they understand the platform and start selling significant volumes. That definitely has one effect. Then we are a marketplace and our take rate will naturally flow a little bit. And I think we also need to reflect the historical position of CDON when analyzing the take rates. We have been quite skewed to electronics. We have been broadening both our assortment and actual sales into other higher margin categories. And then when you see certain seasonal patterns or spikes in certain categories, that naturally impacts our take rate within that time period. We have still had the same take rate and kind of rate card at the bottom to it. So we haven't made any price adjustments.

35:16 This is a natural consequence of the marketplace model. We still see an opportunity to expand our take rate over time, both by widening this workment and, of course, increasing the size of the basket in terms of both items and price. And frequency from our consumers, of course. But then also adding on top of that in terms of retail media, for example. That's definitely a take rate booster that's still largely untapped. So we carefully monitor the take rate, but we also bear in mind that we currently optimize for absolute gross profit and absolute gross profit after marketing, if anything. Yeah. And I think it's better to compare this number.

36:03 You shouldn't really compare with last year because we have really changed our whole merchant basis and getting rid of the finnish type of merchants with high take rate, but high complaint rate as well. And that you can see in the numbers now when we compare to last year, but comparing city on this quarter with last quarter, that's a very good comparison. And there we can see that we are now improving and increasing the take rate. Yeah. Yeah. And on the Findig take rate, were you at all surprised that the take rates were sort of maintained despite the tariffs? Were you maybe worried that this would have some sort of impact on the take rate in the third quarter? I mean, it naturally would have an immediate effect that we understood, adding another three euros on top of the average order value. And with our fairly large share of fixed fees on the sale, that naturally had a consequence.

36:56 We are... constantly working on optimizing all of our revenue streams and we have seen higher shipping revenue during the quarter following increased shipping fees. So we were able to model and understand where this would take us. So the net effect of 0.1% doesn't really tell the full story. It was quite eventful and we did work quite actively during the quarter. Yeah, okay. That's very clear. Thank you. And on the cost side, I mean, you spoke a lot about what was sort of recurring and what was one-offs here, but how should we view the sort of scaling going forward if we look into maybe 2027, of course, and your EBITDA target? Are you confident, you know, that these costs are, to what degree are they sticky going forward and how much of these sort of like recurring investments will maybe sort of like span even forward for a few quarters maybe?

37:56 Let's split that into a few buckets. I mean, our cost base is largely fixed. We don't scale with GMB. Our platform doesn't scale with GMB, which is the beauty of our model. It's rather scaled with number of articles, and we constantly work to optimize that. Yes, it has increased, and that is due to sort of the second bucket of our growth initiatives, the conscious decisions to invest more. At the same time, I think it's fair to assume that at this level, we're quite happy with that investment and won't see too much more of additional kind of a step up in level of it. We'll see a continuation of the current level rather than further increase. And then we'll continue to invest in the Nordic growth during next year and similarly brand marketing during next year to really make sure that we address the underlying trend of a channel mix to paid over organic.

38:50 So still, that's on GPM level. Going back to OPEX, I think it's pretty fair to assume that it's largely sticky. Yes, we have added cost versus last year, but they're conscious and due to our forward leaning growth investments. Yeah, yeah. And what are maybe the challenges to increase the share of the organic traffic? I mean, I know you spoke of some of the initiatives, but maybe we can just repeat that a bit. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of challenges. Where to start? Okay, so we don't own our own product information inventory to start with. That's a problem. Secondly, we have millions of products that could also be seen as a problem.

39:35 It's a big inventory for Google to index, and that is a problem also. Then I would like to add also now that with the new AI era. A lot of these questions have changed also on what to focus on. Now you're talking much more about FAQs and three bullet points on products and so on, which the AI is much more like than previously. But I would say for us, it's still a lot about the structure of the product, the data that it's getting more structured. And now with this product data service that we have launched the first step and waiting for the second and third step, that's going to enable a much more structured data set into Google and everywhere else.

40:32 Perfect. Thank you so much. And then on the giants, we have seen now the rapid expansion here. Could you elaborate a bit on maybe the current pacing, something on the pipeline of merchants integrating going forward? Do you feel that you can maybe push this lever a bit right now? Definitely. We don't see that we have reached any maturity level. We still have a good hunting list. We still have a good conversion when it comes to contacting merchants. And for us now, it's much more that we're moving over to new categories to focus on. Now we get an onboarding pace based on last year's focus on consumer electronics.

41:17 Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab but now we are much more focusing on second and third level of categories expanding our assortment and and we see that they really bring both a broad but also a strong assortment when it comes to these you know most wanted type of products in home in toys and and so on but I think we talked about this last time. What we learned is also that the ones that are the biggest with the biggest potential maybe takes the longest time to get on board as well. So some of these that we have been talking now for about a year are getting on board now. So it's really a long-term game, but we still see that we're far away from any maturity level here.

42:23 Yeah, yeah. Perfect. Thank you. And speaking of maybe, I mean, not maturity is still maybe early stages, but the growth outside of Sweden, is this mainly to easy comparables or what were the key drivers here, would you say? Not easy comparables. Definitely not. I mean, Sedan has been live quite a long time now outside Sweden, Fyndik also for, is it five, seven years or something like that? Yeah. No, the basis, no comps that makes this easier. I think we just have received, we have reached this flywheel effect that we talk about in the marketplace. With good supply, you get more customers. With more customers, we attract more merchants and they expand the supply. With expanded supply, you get more customers and then you get the flywheel going.

43:10 And that, I think, is what we are seeing now in the rest of Nordic. We have a really high acceleration in the flywheel. Is this maybe some pattern that you have identified that could be seen driving the growth in the coming quarters? Is that a fair assumption? I mean, if you have identified that the flywheel is now taking off here? Yeah, we don't see that it's going to slow down. We cannot see that it's going to accelerate even more. But I mean, yeah, it should continue as is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, thank you. And if we are looking forward a bit, we have the business season coming up. And you mentioned also this game release and things surrounding that. Yeah. Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab Yeah, a lot of moving parts now. I mean, on the Finnish side, we have the new tariffs of two euros.

44:14 First of November, it's going to be very interesting how that pans out. It's going to hit our competitors harder than us, or is it going to hit us harder than the last time? Hard to say. Ab Ab Ab Ab Legend of Zelda. Thank you. And then finally, maybe I mean, this this alludes back to what we already spoken of, but you reiterate, you know, the target here.

45:13 Could you sort of like roughly paint a picture from where we are right now? Did the Q3 outcome sort of like change it in any direction based on the way how you saw it? Maybe you sort of like broadly can paint a picture towards the target from from where we are right now. I mean, we're very happy to see the kind of exit pace of Q3 and start of Q4. It's really the first time we speak about monthly performance. But we felt so strongly that we needed to tell the full picture and show that September was not a one-hit wonder. So we're very happy about that and can really build on that. And we are, of course, happy to showcase the effect of the investments that we set out to do about a year ago. I mean, the picture is quite simple, right?

45:59 Q4, our most important quarter. We expect this to continue and we would want to see ideally further operational leverage and improving profitability in Q4. Building on that. further brand marketing campaigns going into early 2027, reducing our dependency on the paid traffic or rather not necessarily reducing the dependency, but rather building up the organic and direct performance, adding on top to it. And then we anticipate kind of further strong performance from our key merchants, the European giants, going into 2027. I would expect the kind of gradual improvement from here out until reaching that approaching 100 million target of 2027. Okay, thank you so much. And then one final question, the new CCO, could you elaborate a bit on what's in the pipeline and what's the tasks ahead for the new CCO?

46:56 Yeah, so it's Emma Danielson previously from Kix, a strong beauty brand, and that's also something that she really brings to the table, a strong, well-known brand, not only dependent on paid marketing, and also very strong when it comes to loyalty, CRM, and such. And I think there are a lot of people Ab Ab Ab Ab Ab