Verici DX (LSE:VRCI) — Investor Presentation

0:00 Good afternoon, and welcome to the VERICI DX PLC investor presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and will be submitted at any time by the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and will publish those responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to the management team. Sarah, good afternoon. Thank you very much. Welcome everybody. I'm I'm going to just flip over the first couple of slides given that they are the disclaimer slides and not sure how how much everybody's going to be able to read those on the fly.

0:46 But just a reminder of the company's products here, we have a suite of three blood based tests and they are all addressed for kidney transplant patients. It's based on the technology of RNA sequencing with an AI algorithm attached. And just as a reminder to everybody, what is RNA? RNA is like the messaging of the body. So it enables clinicians to pick up signals at a very early stage. We call this an early biomarker and make a distinction between this and the competitive technology of cell free DNA which is effectively a late biomarker. It's an injury marker.

1:37 It picks up the debris in the blood. So this is something that is enabling us to to to effectively have a very proactive messaging signaling system of the body. We have three products and if we think about them in terms of order in the patient journey, the first one was a pre transplant test. Effectively, the RNA signature test that we've developed there answers a specific clinical question and that says how aggressive or benign is the patient's immune response likely to be on getting the transplant. Highly significant for clinicians to know that ahead of time, how they can modulate the level of drug treatment. The drugs are immunosuppression.

2:31 They suspend the entire immune system of the body. They are very, very large. And obviously as the clinicians are balancing up their needs to stop rejection on one hand and yet manage infections on the other, finding that kind of sweet spot in terms of drug management is key in transplant management. So that's the pre transplant test that got picked up as everybody remembers a few years ago by Thermo Fisher. They they actually licensed that product for us from us and, you know, they picked that up very early in in in the product development cycle just after the validation study because obviously is their core business in the pre transplant space with their HLA testing.

3:20 They recognize the importance of having a patient based test where no one else had have have any other technology in that area. The second one, if you think about the continuum, you've had the surgery. Now you're looking at the post surgery management of that patient. That's our flagship product called Tutivia and we'll spend most of this presentation talking about that. But just so you know, that answers the question for the clinician that says how likely is it that the patient is having a rejection event that the clinician needs to intervene in. So it's a real call to action and we'll talk about that in a little bit more detail about how it is offering advantages in that space against the competitors of cell free DNA through this kind of advance in the base technology.

4:18 And that gives us some sort of rare space in terms of an entry point into that market. And then long term, a product called Protaga, most significant of the long term outcome factors is is the progression of fibrosis. This is a test that we've been in development for some time. Obviously, you have to validate it for a for a number of years. We did a two year outcome study on that that finished this year and we are looking to launch that by the end of the year. Very much focused on the research market initially before we go for clinical adoption mainly because the progression of fibrosis, there are number of drug developments activities that have been put on the shelf. We think it's because it needs to be segmented.

5:16 We think our test is the answer to that and therefore we're looking at that kind of clinical research field to launch into at the end of the year. Those are the three blood based tests. We also have a urine program based on proteomics that's in the works to complement that. There's a large number of patients that live more than 50 miles from their transplant center. And so having an easier biological material to work with such as a urine collection rather than a blood collection is advantageous in the overall management and that's why we're looking. We do have some revenues projected and in reality from our level of expertise in the lab in these areas.

6:09 Obviously, the work that we do with the transcriptome and with the proteins, the proteomic work, those are both fairly cutting edge technologies. There are a few companies that can do it within a regulated environment. Ours is obviously clear labs so and CLEP qualified. So we offer advantages with the level of expertise within that kind of framework that's attractive to other players. And obviously, we we attract incoming tests from that. So let's talk and focus on the flagship product, Tutivia. That's the one just to remind you that's for the post surgery patient care and offers a number of significant advantages from being that early biomarker rather than a late injury marker that's currently being offered.

7:10 If we take a step back, when we calculate this is just for The US market, not global. We are launched in The US at the moment. So we'll look at that addressable market. We calculated that to be about 900,000,000 kind of on a tranche of patients. There's twenty eight thousand transplants done every year in The US. And looking across the protocols of testing, we did a weighted average. So if you look at some of the sub conditions when they're managing something that's actively putting that patient at high risk. Obviously, that's an intense testing environment rather than a low risk patient. They're just monitoring.

7:57 But the weighted average we came up with was 12 per patient. That's over an eighteen month period. So taking the 28,000 times 12 times on Medicare reimbursed price of $26.50 gives us the kind of 900,000,000 addressable market. Now when we look to how to break that down, we said that effectively it's sort of going into about a third, a third, a third split. A third already being addressed by those late those injury biomarkers of cell free DNA and and and, you know, existing technologies in the field. And then about a third is currently what we might call unaddressed centers that have not used biomarkers in their management to date.

8:46 But due to government initiated policies, there's something called the IOTA initiative which is effectively the Medicare system encouraging clinicians to increase those numbers of transplants to the whole healthcare system. It's more advantageous to have patients with a transplant rather than on endless years of dialysis. So there is that push to increase that twenty eight thousand kidney transplants to a higher number. That means taking on more risky organs that have been used to date. But part of that initiative was also to say you can't increase your rejection events so you're going to have to more closely manage those patients.

9:37 And realistically, the way to do that is through biomarker monitoring. So that's a third of the market that we think has been unaddressed to date and is probably fair game for all biomarkers to to present their data. But then there's a third of the market that we think is unaddressed and is unable to be probably addressed by the existing competitors. And let me give a little bit more color on on where we came up with that. So there are high risk patients or high risk situations that the clinicians need to manage. One of them, the one called delayed graph function is effectively a slow starting organ. If you think about the transport, it may go cross country. It's going to be on a very sophisticated medical grade cool box as it were to keep that organ kind of, alive but slowed down. And it takes a while for it to, if you like, warm up in the body, and that's what they call delayed function.

10:41 Now in those early stages, which is just post surgery, most clinicians feel that they can't use other tests because they get confounded by the injury markers of the surgery itself. And so they're looking for a technology that helps them work out whether that organ is just delayed or whether it's going to whether it's suffering rejection. And this is an area that we have shown very clear precise data and is a huge use case for us. We've put the percentages about twenty six percent. But anecdotally, since they the industry has been taking on more risky organs, We've been told unofficially that centers are seeing anywhere rates of anywhere between forty and sixty percent of their patients. So obviously a significant part of those patients with a high need for biomarker test and regular testing as they work out whether it's failing completely or whether it's just sluggish.

11:47 And then obviously that's something that we can address. In the management of patients in transplants, it's obvious that the clinician is managing rejection. Is the graft likely to be rejected by the body? But actually at the other end of the spectrum there's infection. So in managing rejection, they use immunosuppression drug therapies. These are huge drugs. They suspend the entire immune system of the body so that the the immune system does not reject that organ. But at the other end of the spectrum, and I think we all personally felt this through COVID, that when you've got a compromised immune system, you are subject to any passing infections or the progression of oncology events, etcetera.

12:38 It's a big scary time to to have your immune system suspended in that way. So they're looking for reasons to be able to very quickly titrate down that level of drugs therapy. And in the case of when they're managing something called the BK virus where they actually need to, excuse me, reduce that level of suppression, immunosuppression therapy. But at the moment, the current tests are telling them there's something going on. I can't tell you what it is. That sort of tends to drive clinical behavior to increase that level of drug therapy. And you need to be able to distinguish between the two and we can. And there's been a number of follow-up presentations demonstrating the efficacy of our test in that area and that level of precision.

13:32 And we're looking forward to some further real world evidence publications coming out on that. If you had a transplant before, they don't actually remove the old organ when it fails, generally speaking. They'll leave it in the body. Well, obviously, that's shedding off those distress signals that cell free DNA will pick up. We can't distinguish between old and new organ. We can and therefore that's also a very good case study for us. Same with multiple organs and the list goes on. These are kind of high risk patients. They're complications and they need a level of precision and the ability to to catch these conditions early enough that the technology that we offer on an RNA signature offers complete, you know, competitive advantage there. We caught the low hanging fruit. It is a good way for us to get adopted into centers. Obviously, healthcare doesn't discard technology very lightly. So if we go into a center that is already using biomarkers, it's good to be able to say, well, you can't use them in this this in this case.

14:43 And it's an entry point for us to say, well, you've got no biomarker test that can address those conditions. Why don't you use this on those circumstances? It's a pent up demand. It's unmet need. And an environment where they know they want to use a biomarker, they just haven't really felt that they had anything to offer. So that's how we think about it. It's about a third of the market. That's the 300,000,000 in addressable revenues. That certainly, if we did nothing else but address that that segment of the marketplace would give us significant revenue growth there. You know, if we look at performance in '25, we were just about 3,000,000 in revenues.

15:30 But what should we look at this year? Obviously, last year we did a fundraise to support that growth to to build part of our sales team out and how was that manifesting into this year. We always say it takes about six months for a salesperson to come on and be operational in their territory. So the the most significant growth was our first quarter growth of this year where we saw a 32% quarter on quarter growth, you know, from the fourth quarter in in the previous year. We are already in what we call 29 consolidated ordering centers. And those centers account for about 20% of all the transplants done annually in The US. So obviously, a significant penetration into that marketplace.

16:22 And you can see that as we're going through that, we're we're going in on this kind of low hanging fruit, the the areas that they don't think are are being addressed and being able to offer them our test as something that is of real clinical benefit to to adoption. So we we we've managed to get into 29 centers and obviously we got our Medicare coverage determination last year. That's if you remember Medicare has three aspects of codes so they can identify you a price. Our price is $26.50. And then a coverage determination that says we know you're useful, we will pay for you, which obviously in cash collection terms is highly significant for us. So not only is that Medicare, but there's Medicaid that's state based, and we're approved in 17 states in our territories.

17:19 If I think about the sales funnel in the adoption into a center, we think about the hunting activities which is to get a new center on board. And generally speaking, that means that we're talking to one clinician, your champion, who then wants to try it out, see what it's like in their own hands, see where they would put it in their clinical care management. You know, and most often it's either in a DGF patient base or a b k management area. That's where we start. So you start with kind of onesie twosies and then we go into what we call farming which is now I've got a center up and running. We've gone through the, you know, the the approvals to to get it as a send out test.

18:08 I've got a clinician that started to order it. They can now talk to their peers. There's multiple clinicians usually in a practice, in a hospital centers. They can start using it. And where you're really trying to drive those clinicians to to adopt Tutibia into their care pathway is that kind of recurring basis. Okay. I know where I wanna use it and I'm gonna use it across many patients and ultimately many times. So what we're trying to drive is multiple clinicians, you know, in ordering it on a recurring basis. The icing on the cake for us is a protocol. That's where they say, right, we we really do establish that that we wanna use it in a regular way here. It's like the prescription, and we're gonna put it into the to the center. So what we've got here is in the quarter, we had seven new centers come on board. So the hunting from new salespeople was successful, But we also saw a progression all the way through that funnel in our other centers. And in fact, we increased our protocols by one. So we had another center in that quarter put us on protocol.

19:19 So you can see that across the board we saw growth. Now when we talk about the sales team, we'll talk about the number of centers in in The US. So we start with 236 centers, I think, officially. But actually, there's probably only about a 180 that are addressable for us nationwide. And we work on a basis that us the lead in any commercial team in any territory will be the salesperson. And that salesperson can probably handle 15 centers at maturity. And so we have a kind of 15 to one ratio. That would mean for a national sales force, we would be looking anywhere between twelve and fifteen people.

20:06 We have five at the moment. So where we looked to was to split up the the the the country into territories. You'll see on the left, which is where we've had an ordering center. And the in the middle where we've divided those territories up, it says that there are four addressed there and now five that are being addressed since since the raise. But you can see how we split those up and you can see how large the territories are, you know, if we split it up in that way. And I think, you know, what's significant if you see on the right, you see the split in those territories by the numbers of centers. If you work on a 15 to one ratio, you can see by the bar graph underneath that even if we have a a rep in a territory, they're not designed to cover the entire territory.

21:00 So, you know, that first bar graph is is a good bar on the graph is a good demonstration of that that we would actually for full coverage, we would need three reps in that territory. We have one. So we have to, you know, obviously measure our growth in that terms, but we have a system of of adopting or how we would like to go into each territory and get adopted into that territory from the leading centers. Each sales person then needs some support. The first one is a medical science liaison person. That's a person that goes in and talks clinically, clinician to clinician about how they might use it in the patient. In a regulated environment, you have to make a distinction between your sales activity and your clinical discussions and that's what medical affairs does.

21:55 We work on a ratio that we would need one MSL to every two salespeople. So obviously, we work on that ratio as we grow. Field support, there's quite a lot to do in terms of getting adopted into a center and managing it. I'll talk about that a little bit later on, but we do need some, if you like, more junior staff to go in and do some of the field support. And obviously, you know, lab techs and customer service are are pretty self evident as you grow. Beyond the sales team or the commercial team investment in headcount, we recognize that we do need to raise awareness and this is something we've talked about extensively over the last few presentations.

22:45 But essentially in healthcare, the most significant aspects of when you can get a peer to peer recommendation. And we talk we spend a lot of time with key opinion leaders. That's KOL abbreviated. Talking to them at on an individual level and also at conferences. You know, when we have our last conference, we had two presentations from clinicians reporting to other clinicians about the utility of their tests in real world, how they've used it in their practice and the benefits they've seen. And it's obviously highly significant, you know, word-of-mouth recommendation. Something that we are focused in on is what we might call the easy button, the logistic side of of the business.

23:39 You know, as you grow, you can fail just as much from rapid growth as no growth at all. And this is why you can see that realistically we've got a fairly simple workflow. They take the blood at the hospital. They send it to us. We do the hard stuff and then send them back a test result. But if I break that down a little bit in terms of complexity within any hospital system, you can see that the ordering clinician actually is only the starting point. They talk to a transplant coordinator. They're the ones that actually place the tests and manage that test environment for the clinician. Would go down order would go down to a phlebotomy department.

24:25 So the phlebotomy draws the blood that's different. It goes to a send out lab for that blood to get to our lab. And then on the other side when you think about getting the result back in, you're talking to a nurse and a transplant pharmacist who will probably review the test before having a consult with the clinician. So even in quite a simple process, you've got multiple stakeholders in that hospital center being involved in that process. And so there is a level of complexity to those logistics that we manage. We do what we call a white glove service, very personal attention to each one of those stakeholders. But ultimately, the hospital centers are looking to be to be integrated into their own systems. Most I think something like 90% of all transplant centers use a system called EPIC.

25:19 And long term, this is something that we're looking to be integrated in. But at the moment, we do it very much with our own portal and our own management that you can see the need for field support in a commercial team from that. And then obviously, you know, if we were in real estate, I would be saying location, location, location. But we're in healthcare so I'm just gonna say data, data, data is highly significant to the adoption of the test. Is that not only do you have existing data which we do from our clinical trial and there is more to be gained from the data that we collected at that time and there will be subsequent publications beyond the validation paper. But also you're looking to collect what we call real world evidence. Okay, the clinicians are trying it.

26:10 What do they think? What do they see? How did it impact? And how was it useful in patient management? And then ultimately you end up in formalized utility studies. These are very formal studies to say, okay, I want to take a usefulness case and for example, how the test was used in titrating the levels of drug that have been given to a patient to be finding that sweet spot for each patient. That would be a trial for drug monitoring. And these are very useful for us in terms of you continually feeding the clinicians new information on how useful the test is. We can see that as we are thinking about this for the future, obviously, getting mining our own data that's coming in from real world or from our validation study is the obvious one to supplement that with little small studies, center based for usefulness, case studies for conferences.

27:14 And then ultimately where we'd like to go is funding major studies that really support us being able to move out of the kind of the niche area of the first third into directly competing with incumbents in the the other two space two thirds of the market. So being able to have ongoing publications, conferences, abstracts, etcetera. The constant stream of data supports test adoption. Obviously, I just want to touch upon the others. We do have the Thermo Fisher publication out now on Petra that enables them to go into the clinical community and set up what we call the early adopting centers. Those will be ones that generate this real world evidence, seeing how it's used in clinical management and showing the usefulness of that. So ultimately from us, this is a thermo activity. We do support them. We do a lot of joint marketing, for example.

28:22 The base technology is the same even if the clinical question and therefore RNA signature answer are different. So we see some benefits of obviously doing joint marketing activities and sometimes joint approaches into centers. So that is something that we actively work with them on. We've got most of the milestone payments from that deal already in the business but there is one more to go which is volume based and obviously then there'll be a royalty income as they get into their full blown commercial activities. Protaga launched to be kind of launched at the end of this year.

29:09 Again that's the kind of research market and obviously we see ongoing interest from other parties of using our specialty lab services and building that off. Obviously as we build out urine based products, those will be seen in the next few years as accretive as well. David, let's just move on to finances. Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. So in terms of the year to December 2025, we recorded revenues of 3.7%, split 2.9 on Tativya that we mentioned earlier, although 3.2 based on test ordered. I'll come to that dealt that distinction in a minute. And then a final milestone payment from Thermo Fisher, just point point eight.

29:59 We did a fundraise back in July 2025 raising net $7,900,000. Adjusted EBITDA loss for the period 6.2, and I'll break that down in the following slides. Similarly, on cash flow outflow from operations, I will split out. Cash balance at the end of the year was 3.3, with an accounts receivable balance of 1.5. And then we just closed last month further equity raise of 2,600,000 sterling gross, which takes our expected cash runway through to the end of this year. In terms of revenue, there is complexity to the calculation of revenue in terms of how we recognize it, and I just want to make the point that there is this complexity.

30:45 The first distinction is between ordered test and resulted. So it's the resulted test. When the result goes to the clinician, that's the point at which we recognize revenue. The delta between an ordered test and and resulted is generally where at the center, too little blood has been taken, so we can't use the the the the test tube of blood that's sent to us, and therefore, there's that delta. And then the other parts that come into the calculation of revenue is what we get from Medicare. So that's our biggest payer. So they pay us 2,650 less a 2% charge. So we net 2,597. Then how much are we getting from commercial payers? What's the denial rate? There will always be a level of denial rate. That's nothing to do with the efficacy of the test. That's everything to do with the business model, if you will, of the of the commercial payers whereby they will they will seek to deny payment, and then we go back and argue the case. But there's always gonna be a level of denial and then the split between your Medicare and your commercial payers. So the point really there is that there is there's a complexity to the way revenues are recognized. It's not simply test times price equal revenue.

31:57 And then just going into the primary statements. So the cash flow, net cash flow out from operations of eight eight point two versus six. Biggest driver there being that we had a 1,500,000 receivable at the end of the year. So that's what we say. We recognize the revenue, but we don't have the cash yet because it's not receivable. Investing activities is a combination of what we spend on our assets and in interest income. Financing is the cash inflow from share issues less what we're spending on rent and capital payments. In terms of the income statement, I've talked about revenues. That cost of sale relates to the Tativia revenues only because the revenue from thermal has obviously got no cost attached to it.

32:45 In terms of administrative expenses, our biggest cost continues to be payroll. We had 18 people in the business at the end of twenty twenty five. We've currently got 23 people, which includes 10 within the commercial team of which five of those are on the sales side, as Sarah mentioned earlier. In terms of our r and d expand, that's continuing to fall as the clinical trials end, and we're doing just more sort of follow-up work rather than core r and d expenditure. But we are spending more in terms of sales support. That's everything to do with everything that is supporting the sales force like conferences, etcetera, and KOLs and all that stuff that supports them in their efforts out in the field. And then in terms of the balance sheet, that trade receivables, biggest item of that is the receivables at the end of the period.

33:35 And then in terms of our noncore noncurrent active assets, that's really our portfolio of patents, so the core license and what we do to augment it. In terms of the trade and other payables, that's fallen principally as a result of we we're always carrying a large site accruals. This was costs that had been incurred by the centers as part of the clinical trial, but they had not invoiced us. That balance was 750 at the end of twenty twenty four. That's dropped to a 157. So that's accounting for that delta there in terms of that trade and other payables number. And then lease liabilities is mainly to do with the rent on our premises. Back to you, Sarah. Thank you. Thank you.

34:22 So this is really just the summary side. But I think, you know, when we look and I will refer back to I see some of the questions looking over the last five years, and I will will come back to that question. But what did we achieve in those last five years? Well, out of the three products, we've validated two of them and commercially launched them. And, you know, obviously, one under a licensing deal with a partner that obviously brings a lot of credibility to the to the company in terms of the underlying science, the performance, the usefulness of those tests. So Thermo Fisher licensing deal not only was a revenue generator, but obviously a credibility factor as well in our overall valuation.

35:16 We kept to TVR, that's with our direct sales force. And obviously, we are taking that step by step in its growth and we're seeing that growth at 32% quarter on quarter growth, I think, was highly encouraging. And we've gone through all the steps that you need to take, you know, in a health care company in The US. There are a number of steps that you have to go through. And if we look at the five year horizon, we took a technology out of research, out of Mount Sinai. We developed the products. We applied the most current mathematical models to it to refine those signatures to give the best performance. We then put it through a validation study and got the the performance out of that.

36:11 In the background, we looked at the regulatory environment and are, you know, getting CLEAR approved. And, obviously, the latest news on the company was that we finally completed that with New York state approval, so we are now nationally approved under CLEAR. The New York state announcement was exciting to us because they they take a major element of the transplant patients, about two thousand of them are done in that region alone. So we, you know, obviously, in the final piece of the puzzle on adoption, that was very useful. It also means that we passed probably what is seemed to be equivalent to FDA kind of processes in terms of their review.

36:59 And so again, it was a kind of value driver for the company for being able to be approved by New York State. So we've gone through the regulatory. And obviously, the reimbursement, I just like to remind everybody, 68% of our claims are under Medicare. Very significant for us to be cleared by them. There's three parts of that process and it does take a number of years. The first one is to get a code, a price, and then a coverage determination. And obviously, the price we got set to $26.50 some time ago. The coverage determination we got last year, that was after a year of very deep diligence by CMS, the MolDX region, and obviously being able to say, no, you do qualify as a useful test and we will pay you is key for us in terms of our revenue recognition. As David pointed out, you know, obviously, getting that kind of automatic, you're going we're going to be paid even if they do take the 2% tax off the top.

38:04 But, you know, that's significant for us in terms of cash collections. And then we, you know, commercially have started our our national adoption, but we're already in 29 centers representing about 20% of the of The US market. That's significant with a very small sales team. And obviously, we look forward to, if you like, farming those, making those, each one of those centers into a recurring high level ordering center for us, the farming activities. We hadn't didn't stop there with two products. We've got a third coming out at the end of the year. We've got a pipeline of products and serve other services opportunities which kinda capitalize on the expertise within the company.

38:56 When we look at The US market, it's big enough for us for a number of years. Nine hundred million addressable market, 300,000,000 of that at least is kind of rare space for us. So a great entry point. Very rarely with a new product do you get to walk into such a preexisting pent up demand. You usually have to create those processes in hospitals. It's already there. They know they want to test. They just didn't have a test that they felt that they could use. For us to be able to address that part of the market is is obviously very advantageous in terms of adoption within The US healthcare system. Obviously, we have a very talented team. I wanna always give a shout out to the work they do. Everyone does at least a job and a half, and they're very dedicated to making a difference in the space.

39:53 We also have a number of very, very supporting what we call key opinion leaders, KOLs. Our network is growing. And I think we you can see by the number of advisers that we have now got on our advisory team, the the belief from the clinical community in this company and the products that we offer. And, obviously, we feel that we're just now on a growth trajectory. We've kind of done clicked off all the proof of concept milestones to get to that point, and now we're a revenue generating company. And for us, this is now a little bit of rinse and repeat. As we get the resources to grow, we believe that we can address that that market very successfully.

40:45 We know how to do it. We just need to now be on the pathway to bringing in that success. We have a line of sight within a reasonable time scale to to have what it would take for us to get to breakeven. And at the moment, we're just funding our way to that level where we can then obviously grow and increase the sales force out of operational funds rather than equity funds. So a clear line of sight for the company for for the future. Okay. I just want to move on to some of the questions. Thank you for submitting them. I'm gonna take the operational ones first.

41:30 The question was, surely, once a center has adopted, the rep can move on to another center. No. Actually, that's not the case. It's not a one and done sale, at all. It's an ongoing relationship and management. Things go wrong. If you remember, I showed you all the stakeholders in in that and people move as well. So you'll see a significant sales force from our competitors, the KDXs, the Nateras. And it's that frequency of going into the center, working with the clinician to to expand where they might be using it, a reminder to use it over again. There's an ongoing relationship that needs to happen and that's why we work on a 15 to one ratio.

42:23 And obviously, with with the supporting staff as well. But, yes, it's very much much more of a kind of solution based selling rather than just a a kind of one off products. When do I expect to announce q know, we are on a half year basis, so it's not that we report quarterly. I think that we have reported q one just because we were in a fundraise. We wanted people to know that their growth was there. So there isn't any set expectations for giving quarterly results, but we do try and, you know, give as much information to the to the investment community as we can. We're balancing up, obviously, the fact that it all becomes very public and that's competitive intel for for others, but we try and communicate with the investors as best we can.

43:27 The follow-up question, is that a sales support function or the sales function? No. It's a whole thing. You know, I think that when when you're looking at going into a center, you're not just trying to get a a once off sale. It's not there are 12 times per patient that a a clinician can elect to to do your sales to use your test. Those are obviously different situations. And what we do is we obviously have an ongoing relationship, an ongoing conversation with the clinician about how they're using the test in our in their clinical management of patients.

44:13 It's not just a a one time. For example, when you think about a clinician that may want to use it in the DGF protocol, then you also want them to start thinking about, well, where else can I use that? Can I use it with a BK patient? So on and so forth. So it's not it's not just a straightforward sales. It's much more of a relationship basis. Do we have a target or best guess when cash breakeven will be reached? Yes. We do. We think about breakeven revenue point of about 60,000,000 in that annual sales.

44:58 So that's the kind of rule of thumb. Obviously, if we were to try and grow our sales faster, you know, with more investment into a bigger commercial team, you know, obviously, that dynamic would change. But I we think our sweet spot is at about 16,000,000 top line. Then when we'll reach, it becomes self funding avoid and the sales except I would agree. The sales progression, you know, I would love to be able to have enough investment to have a national sales force to really put that investment, but it is expensive money upfront.

45:45 And we are not in a funding environment that rewards that kind of growth story. It's very much focused on revenues and profitability and therefore we have to be a little tempered in how we approach the national market and look for our best opportunities and best ROI on the equity dollars that we're putting to work. So, yes, we have a clear line of sight. Yes, we could grow faster if we put more investment in, but initially that would be quite expensive for the company before we saw the real return on that. And so we have chosen to go a little bit more organic in our approach and to try and get to our profitability figure before having a national sales force.

46:41 What else is there here? I think I think I'm seeing some comments about past performance and I think it might be as well to address effectively the progression of the company and the time scale and the change in funding environment over those last five years. When we IPO ed, we were AIM was very much in a growth mentality, looking for opportunities where there was potential to grow and looking for companies that had the milestones on there that they could achieve on that pathway to growth. We were such a company. We hit our all time share price high ironically at the point where we incurred our biggest expense which was the clinical trials. So when we got first patients enrolled into that clinical trial in a growth environment where it's looking at those milestones, we got rewarded.

47:37 I think everybody is aware that in healthcare, there was a post COVID hangover, where diagnostic companies had been seemed to be very successful. There was a lot of testing around COVID. And then obviously as business got back to normal, there was kind of a retrenching. The AI market itself in terms of philosophy, I think moved from going from just milestone based growth companies to preferring a more kind of traditional reward for revenue generating and profitable companies. And I think we're still in that environment. You see you can see how the company is addressing that. Now over that time, obviously, we were still in a growth story. We did achieve our milestones. We clicked them off, but it wasn't in an environment that was rewarding for that. It was in an environment that was now focused on revenue generation and profit, and that's exactly where the company has got to in terms of its milestones and our current focus, which is careful management of the cash that we do raise through equity dollars to be able to get into that sales growth.

48:46 And as I've already said, that it's not the ability to, you know, invest as much as we'd want to if we were all in a growth encouraging environment. This is very much more focused on revenues and profits, and we're seeing that accordingly. So as we're talking about funding, although we can see a pathway to to that breakeven, we haven't funded up to that level. I think the sentiment is very much tranching it, some money to get to the next kind of revenue growth targets and then, you know, keep funding as we go. Whether you agree with that or not, I think that's the environment that we're in and the company has obviously tried to cut its cost accordingly.

49:34 And as I said, I think we've managed to do quite a lot with not as much money as we originally anticipated back in 2020. But we still grown, we're still here, and we are on a very clear path for for growth and off to profitability. I think in, you know, dilution the balance on dilution with funding is inevitable. You know, we don't get to grow without funds funds investment spread over a number of years will by nature dilute.

50:22 Ultimately, the equation for every company that goes through dilution is to say, ultimately, we will grow and we will grow the value to out those that dilution. I it's been very challenging in this last five years, but still the company is on a growth trajectory and we would like to see that reflected in the overall valuation long term. Well, I hope I've managed to answer all the questions that have been posed. If there are any that I've missed, the company will endeavor to respond to those in writing. But in the absence of any other questions, I think we can close the session.

51:12 That's great. Thank you for updating investors today. Can I please ask investors not to close the session as you'll now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations? This may only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all. Thank you.