Van Elle Holdings (LSE:VANL) — Acquisition of ScrewFast Foundations Ltd

0:04 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the VAN ELLE HOLDINGS PLAYSTATION ON THE ACQUISITION OF SCREWFAST FOUNDATIONS. To start with, if we could cover a couple of housekeeping items. Before we begin, we would like to submit the following poll, which you will see on your screens. Throughout this presentation, investors will be in listener only mode.

0:29 However, questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time via the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen or if anyone has dialed in via vanlwoolbrookpr dot com. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives today. However, the company will review all questions submitted and publish responses where appropriate. These will be available via your Investor Meet company dashboard. Finally, we would like to remind you that this presentation is being recorded. I would now like to hand you over to Chief Executive, Mark Cutler Chief Financial Officer, Graham Campbell and Managing Director of Screwfast, Dan Dye.

1:15 Thanks, Tom. Good afternoon, everyone. So I'm Mark Cutler, chief executive. To my left here is is Greg Campbell, and on the other screen screen is Dan, Dan Dye. We're delighted to have the opportunity just to update you on our strategic rationale and the benefits of the acquisition of Screwfast on the April 1. And already, the business is embedding in very well, and and we're very excited by the prospects that are starting to to come through. So we'll spend about fifteen, twenty minutes just talking through our thinking and our plans, and most importantly, some of the innovative characteristics of the ScrewFast service offering, which Dan will talk us through in a minute.

2:06 So if you just could just change the next slide for us and the next one. So you have myself, Graham, Dan, as you can see. And then on the the next slide, a quick summary of the acquisition, which Graham is going to just talk through. I think the announcement that we released on the April 1 covers off the majority of these points. I'll just briefly run through the mechanics of the transaction. It was a 100% equity purchase of Sprutra

2:38 Pass Foundation Limited with initial cash consideration of 1,760,000 on completion. We structured the deal to have a deferred consideration element of which partially, part of that is guaranteed and the remainder then is based on future financial performance of Screwfast as part of the wider group. So the contingent cash consideration element is 1,180,000. And I think importantly, more EBITDA that Screwfast is able to deliver in that period, better the deal for the VAN ELLE group overall. Consideration of funding from existing resources, and for those of you that have been following us for a while, you recall that we completed a capital raise back in April 2020 and refinanced the of of the the business business financial funding position in October 2020. So we are in a much stronger position than we have been for some time and that liquidity headroom has allowed us to, with a 1.76 upfront payment, service that from the existing cash resources.

3:53 We anticipate that the business will be earnings enhancing from the beginning of the relationship. And obviously, we're just allowing a sensible lead in time for integration with the wider VAN ELLE group, and therefore, we're looking at modestly earnings enhancing from the beginning, certainly in the first twelve months. And we're lot in next twelve months. In And

4:28 and a positive EBITDA. And that sort of performance has been broadly consistent through the previous five years as well. And I think pleasingly and importantly as part of the deal, the order book brought into the wider group is it sits at 5,100,000 as on the completion date. So that's the mechanics. So I'll hand back to Mark just to talk through a bit more of the rationale. If move on to the next slide, please. So we're extremely excited by the addition of Screwfast to the group, as is Dan and the team. And the reason for that is it's a business that we know well. We've worked alongside, and we've seen Screwfast grow and develop and and

5:15 work in similar environments to core VAN ELLE business for several years, particularly in smart motorways. And so we've we've been thinking for some time about the areas where we would target bolt on acquisitions. Clearly, it makes sense, and I've communicated this before, that the specialist piling side of our business, where we have higher margins, we have more specialist niche capabilities, we have a very strong market position, is the is a priority area for us to to consider opportunities as they come along. And we've been talking to Screwfast for several years. You might be interested to hear, actually, going back even pre IPO, discussions with Screwfast have been started, and we stayed in touch.

6:04 The the the service offering that Screwfast bring very much fits into our capabilities of end to end foundation engineering. Our strapline of total foundation solutions, you know, describes this perfectly in that Dan and the team bring a a modular steel and pedicle piling and foundation system approach to foundations in highways, railways, telecoms, and power that fit very well our range of services and fit very well our growth sectors. So we've been working on this for several months. Dan will talk a little bit more about how it's felt from from the shareholders of the Screwfast point of view, but it complements the range of capabilities that we have. And in fact, our precast concrete modular foundation system, SmartFoot, is in many ways a concrete example of the steel modular foundation systems that Screwfast bring to the group. And with a very strong ready made position in the smart motorways programs I've described fits very well our our midterm strategy.

7:19 Indeed, we can immediately bring together our highways operations under one single umbrella and integrate those end to end capabilities for our customers. Screwfast also get involved earlier than than VAN ELLE would typically do so because of their strong design capabilities. So customers will ask Dan and the team to work on designs maybe twelve months before VAN ELLE would typically get involved. That allows us to establish a strong position for for the group and build on relationships at a much earlier stage. And I should add to what Graham said about the rationale of the acquisition, the way we structured it, that, you know, clearly, expect this to be margin enhancing in due course. The profitability levels are in line with our specialist piling business, and returns on capital are ahead of where we would typically expect the core VAN ELLE business to operate because there's a low demand for expensive piling rigs.

8:20 This is a fairly simple operation in terms of plant and equipment and and eminently scalable through the design and manufacture and installation process that that Dan operates. So a really good fit, and I shouldn't forget to mention that culturally, we also see, you know, strong relationship that's already formed and being formed in the business. We sat here in Kirkby and Asheville. Dan's in Luton. It brings a southern focus to the team as well as a like minded approach to, you know, the teams coming together. So we feel very, very comfortable on on several fronts. Next slide, please. And I'll just introduce now Dan.

9:06 And Dan will just talk through a couple of slides on the Screwfast business, the rationale for selling some of the USPs and the capabilities of the business. Over to you, Dan. Thanks, Mark. Just gonna move on to the next slide. So I'm Dan Dye. I've been a managing director at Screwfast for a number of years, and I've been with Screwfast for around about twenty now, or just short of twenty years. And in that time, I've been involved in the design of parts, the installation, manufacture, the test, and the selling. I'm not an engineer per se, but I have spent twenty years pretty much in planning.

9:45 Screwfast was formed in 2000 and was a privately owned business up until the acquisition. In our earlier years, we had quite quite a strong presence in rail, and we also have still a strong presence in roads and energy, civils, and telecoms. And rail itself was a core sector for us for a number of years, and we were involved in a number of rail schemes, signaling, and electrification. Our route to market, as Mark alluded to, is slightly different to VAN ELLE's. We we tend to embed ourselves early in the design process. Reason RAO became less of a core sector for us was because the likes of VAN ELLE were able to introduce a significant range of deployable, well, deployable assets and very competent and versatile delivery teams. And at the time, we just could not compete.

10:33 The acquisition, however, changes our view of the route sector significantly. We've always felt that these three fast niche solutions have a place in rail, and we still believe that now. We think that by being part of the VAN ELLE group, we'll have be able to bring those offerings back to rail. So we see rail as a real opportunity sector. But it's not all about rail for us. And whilst we haven't been as active in rail in the years well, the last ten years or so, we are focused heavily on roads, energy, civils, and telecoms. Each of those sectors has a very different route to market.

11:08 The one consistent factor is the design led approach. So we're actively seeking to find out what problems our clients have, and then we look to resolve those at a very early stage in design. For example, roads, which is a good place to start, there's a there's a big driver to carry out off-site construction, so eliminating risky activities from the side of the road. We managed to do that by, as Mark said earlier, using our modular solutions to the grillages, to fabricated away from site. A lot of the construction activity is taken care of and then brought in. That helps reduce exposure on-site. And energy, again, it's another sector where we focus on a design led approach. Very different requirements to roads.

11:53 It's all about standardization, eliminating changes on-site, and working with small plant because there are overhead risks. I'll cover more about those sectors in a moment. In terms of culture, we do feel the culture is very similar, and that was one of the key reasons for us moving forward with VAN ELLE. But it's also about the technical synergies similarities. Well, as I've said, we have a design led up product offer. VAN ELLE very much has a market position solution offer. But, collectively, they're complementary, and in my opinion, it creates the ability for both VAN ELLE and Screwfast to offer all solutions to their existing client bases. We felt it was the right time to move forward with the acquisition, and The the industries we're working have created quite a visibility of workflow, perhaps more than we've seen in recent years, and that's really given us an opportunity to capitalize on those opportunities with a recognized platform for sustainable growth.

12:59 The problem for us historically capitalizing on the opportunities has been our or the the limits well, I guess, the perception of our financial strength. When you're an SME, there is a general concern that you don't wanna award too much work in one place. And, obviously, the VAN ELLE balance sheet will do a lot to address that. But it's also more than just the numbers. VAN ELLE itself adds a huge amount of credibility to what we offer. We can now offer more. We can offer different solutions, and, also, both companies can cross sell. And, ultimately, we we think that this creates more confidence with our existing clients, and the reaction so far from our clients has been very positive. In terms of the USPs, we we focus very heavily on creating design led led solutions or foundations of products that solve specific problems.

13:54 And one of the keys to that is having a very highly multi disciplined experience workforce. The design team are key to that. The designers themselves come from a wide range of sectors, have worked overseas, have different disciplines, and are able to innovate and develop ideas, which will add to to that offer.

14:18 In terms of the scalable installation capacity or capability, Strufast relies on a very basic base excavator unit for its installation function. So what what we need is a 21 ton excavator, for example, which are readily available and on hire. We have a very large fleet of Sprutefast specific piling attachments. And as a consequence of that, combined with the depth and resource, we are able to scale according.

14:50 Obviously, we've been trading for twenty one years, and in that twenty one years, we've been involved in a lot of flag flagship projects. We've we've installed piles at the Palace Of Westminster, and we've installed over a thousand foundations on the road network. We've installed hundreds of piles for temporary seating at the London Olympics, and we've recently installed around about a thousand piles out of the Tokyo Olympics with the ballistic nets.

15:17 And we've done that whilst maintaining the relationships and the flow of work through substations and roads. We've also been busy in telecoms. Telecom is actually a sector for us that generates recurring revenue year on year. We were first involved with telecoms in 2001 in time for the three g rollout, and recently, we've been installing more foundations for the five g rollout, and that revenue continues to to repeat. We have, for twenty one years, focused on those relationships, and that's been about establishing relationships from the ground up, but also the top down, recognizing that each of them has a very important part to play. And at the same time, that's allowed us to continue embedding our ScrewFast specific nuances into the technical information that eventually comes out in a tender.

16:07 In terms of roads, we do consider ourselves to be very well positioned. We have that design led activity. We are also involved in a number of schemes concurrently, and the sis the solutions and foundations that we provide solve a different purpose to some of the more conventional systems. Hence, the ability to to leverage the opportunity to cross sell between Screwfast and VAN ELLE, which is something we haven't been able to do previously. And same for energy. We've got a strong presence in energy. We're involved in a lot of construction of new build substations and also refurbs. And the key in those sectors is all around the the the modular solutions, the small plant, and keeping them simple and standardized.

16:54 Telecoms, as I've just said, is is very much a a continuous sector for us. Rail, we see that as an opportunity sector. We believe that this will change our presence within rail and will improve the offer for both VAN ELLE and Screwfast. And then civils is effectively a sector that wraps up everything that isn't one of the other sectors. That could be a bridge at Reading Festival, which we install most years and then uninstall, or it could be a pedestrian footbridge over a small river in Hertfordshire. It varies. Equally, that would also cover a job like the Olympics. Over to you, Brian. Thanks, Dan.

17:46 So I think just I'll I'll sort of wrap up the financial summary, but I'll just talk through the key points on the next slide. I

17:56 think Dan's obviously talked there about the strength that Screwfast have within the highways sector. I think it's important just to appreciate that over the last five years, and you'll see on the pie chart on the right hand side of the slide, that actually although they've had very good success in the last twelve months, particularly around the highway sector, they have had a fairly diverse range of delivery across, actually quite evenly spread in the last five years between roads, energy and civil. So a good range of sectors there, a bit of diversity to provide some protection in the normal cyclical movements of these main sectors that they operate within. Importantly, gross margin, I think Mark touched on this earlier, the gross margins that we've seen within Screwfast historically have been towards the upper end, so more comparable to our Rail division when Rail has been operating effectively at those sorts of higher margin levels. So that was one of the certainly appealing aspects of looking at Sprupast and really aligned to our strategic targets of improving our operating margin back up towards the 7% to 8% mark.

19:06 So the fact that Screwfast have operated in that sort of region at that upper end is extremely positive from us.

19:13 In terms of the order book, I've talked about that briefly. The order pipeline, pretty well balanced between sort of highways and energy sectors at the moment. But I think importantly, and Dan just touched on that, that the areas that with a little bit more capital support from the larger group, we see decent opportunities to grow further, particularly within the rail sector. We obviously got our rail division, and we think that the Screwfast solution lends itself very well to try to grow revenues in that area, and we're optimistic in that regard. Briefly on working capital. We do expect some working capital to be to need to be invested in the business. We accepted that from the beginning. Completion, the working capital of Sprutlass was at a relatively low point, so there will be some working capital increase to come. And because of purely the solution, there's a higher materials content within contracts, within within Screwdriver's business. So it tends to be a little bit more volatility, I think, within the working capital movements, particularly

20:18 as as the the materials cost tends to come up front in the early part of the contract. Certainly nothing that we're concerned about in terms of the overall liquidity headroom that's on our vessels group at the moment. And importantly as well, CapEx requirements we think are relatively low going forward. And that's important. Again, the solution, whilst it's well regarded and technically very strong competence, the capital required, so the heavy equipment that's required to deliver it, is not particularly costly. And therefore, comfortable that cash can be fairly well constrained as we move forward. And the final point there really is around synergies. We haven't assumed any great synergies going forward, but we do anticipate that as we get closer to business, the we can really start to leverage some of the wider group capabilities, support with us, do things bigger and more efficiently together.

21:12 So so with that, I'll I'll wrap up the finance review and and hand over to Mark to to wrap up. Thank you. Yes. So in summary, there's really strong alignment across several points as far as we're concerned. Very positive alignment across the key sectors that we have targeted for growth, both in terms of where Screwfast operate today and in terms of the doors that we can open to allow Screwfast to continue to grow and support that growth through the strength of the group and its balance sheet and its wider resources and technical capabilities and all of the cross selling opportunities that we know will will come from that. Dad is highly regarded in the industry. VAN ELLE has got a really strong market position.

22:00 It's a really good fit from that point of view. They and the technique and the system fits our range of technical solutions, which is unrivaled. 27 different types of piling ground engineering techniques that we offer to to The UK markets. You know, this is this is one niche gap that we've been thinking about addressing for a while, and it fits perfectly. It fits because it's a a specialist technique that has taken years to develop standard designs and approved designs by very demanding customers such as high Highways England and their and their designers, But also because it's a what's called a modern method of construction, a modular system, an off-site system that allows easy deployment of a an a whole foundation system without putting lots of people onto site and building what we call in situ in place. You can you can put the screw piles, the helical piles into the ground and and drop modular foundation systems in steel onto the helical piles with patented connections that make ready made foundations for subsequent erection of structures. That's exactly the way that construction programs are going. It's faster.

23:25 It's it's not always cheaper, but it's certainly a lot less resource. It's a lot safer, and you have less people in a position of danger. And you need less resources, full stop, which is which is the way the industry is is needing to move and complements. Therefore, our smart foot system, which is exactly the same in the housing sector out of out of precast concrete. And this also comes at great timing. We're just ahead of Highways England's ten year Smart Motorways Alliance, which has been publicly reported. Procurement process for the specialist subcontractors has just started. And in fact, Highways England are delighted with this move because it brings under one roof two of their leading players straight away. So we're very optimistic about our prospects in smart motorways for the longer term.

24:16 But also ahead of a ramp up in CP six, which we often talk about around signaling and electrification programs that need a lot of line size structures delivered in exactly the sort of modular fashion that I've just described because access is restricted and time is short. So, again, it's a a a very smart way of doing things. And as Dan mentioned, smart systems such as the ScrewFast system were were pioneered in the rail sector several years ago. So lots and lots of benefits. On top of that, Dan also brings customers and opportunities into the VAN ELLE group that we haven't yet started to penetrate. In particular, the power sector with substations programs and four g and five g rollout in the telecoms sector, where Dan's got a strong market position, all areas that add to our breadth of customer base and the diversity of operations.

25:17 So in conclusion, a really good fit and a very, very welcome addition to the group. Great. Super. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Graham. Thank you, Dan. If we could now turn to the questions, we've had a number that were submitted ahead of the presentation. However, please do continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab situated on the top right hand corner of your screen. I'd like to remind you that there is a recording of this presentation along with a copy the slides, that'll be published on your Investor Meet company dashboard. Additionally, your feedback is important. So immediately after the presentation has ended, you'll be redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback.

26:02 While you're submitting those questions, let's first have a look at a couple of those submitted ahead of the event. We've had a couple which are in respect of the competitive landscape. So maybe, Mark, if I could ask this of you. Were you in a competitive bidding situation for Screwfast? We were at one stage. Yes. But I think it's fair to say, and Dan, I'm sure, will agree that quite early on, it was recognized by both parties that the strategic fit was so strong that that became the driving ambition for both businesses. So we were in exclusive discussions quite an early stage once we'd made the initial proposal.

26:49 Great. Okay. And and one for you, Dan, maybe. What is the scale of Screwfast? For example, number of employees, offices, etcetera. We have office location in Luton, and we have a fabrication facility in Gambling Gate and which is near Sandy on the A 1. That's around about 20,000 square foot of external space and a 5,000 square foot fabrication facility, which is National Highway Sector Scheme accredited, actually. It's a heavily accredited facility. And in terms of the numbers, we're around about 40 now. Okay. Super. Alright. Mark, one for you. And what ties management in?

27:39 So the the Graham's described the earn out structure briefly. So that locks management in to an exciting earn out model to the end of financial year 2023. So over over two years away before we get to that point. And then the team are also brought into the same long term incentive structures arrangements that myself and Graham and other senior leaders in the in the VAN ELLE group are are involved in. So, you know, very close alignment to the long term incentive programs that we already have in place. Great. Okay. One question around acquisitions in more general terms.

28:28 Could this be the first acquisition of a number? What does your pipeline look like? I'll probably prefer not to comment too carefully on on that at the moment. We this is this is the first acquisition for us since IPO as as as you will be aware. We had several attempts just before I joined. And and I think when the business did list, you know, it certainly was intending to move forward with the program of acquisitions. We see this as a test for the management team to prove our capabilities and judgment and performance. You know, we are clearly recovering as a business from all of the challenges that we've talked about previously, not least coming out of COVID and working towards our midterm targets. And this very much complements our midterm financial KPIs.

29:31 I don't expect it will be the first and only, but I'm not going to make any promises around a pipeline or or timescales for future Acquisitions in our specialist operations and scale would be niche and bolt on as a general rule of thumb. Other than that, we're we're we're going to make sure this integrates successfully and gets off to a flying start, and then we'll be perhaps looking further forward after that. Understood. Absolutely. Quick one here about government departments and modular construction. Government departments seem obsessed with modular construction, at least in house building. Did you get any indication of that desire for modular capability from infrastructure clients ahead of the decision?

30:23 If not, have you had any response since? Okay. So well, the the the very fact that ScrewFast are so successful in smart motorways is because of the technical advancements and innovations that Dan and the team have have have pioneered, which is is effectively a modular system that removes time and resource from traditional techniques and is increasingly popular with the smart motorways contractors, and the alliance going forward. Exactly the same is happening in rail. So Alastair is quite right, and Alastair will be well aware that the same principles apply in housing where, you know, you can you can you can see the benefits of a modular approach there as well, giving exactly the same outcomes.

31:19 And, yes, I had those positive indications prior to completing the deal from from several of our customers. Right. Okay. And we've got a a question here, which is to do with cost synergies and and the working capital model, which may be a little bit complex just for for this platform right now. But but, Graham, would you be able to touch on on some of the elements of this in respect of understanding the potential cost synergies, the working capital model for Screwfast and what the opportunities are for growth in rail and do they include HS2. We we may need to respond to some of the specifics of that afterwards, think. Yeah.

32:04 I'm I'm happy to respond on some of that in writing afterwards. I think at a at a high level, it's important to recognize that this is a this is what we've built about, which is a bolt on acquisition. It's another piling technique that will add to our already existing and and and extensive capabilities. So, you know, will do we expect significant synergy savings across the board? No. I don't think we do. They operate Screwfast operate as a as an efficient organization. However, notwithstanding that point, I think, clearly, we've got an administrational team that can be leveraged to to help and support, whether that's processing of invoices or collecting of debts or whatever it may be, and that that will clearly add add some value.

32:55 And and then the the sort of buying power, I think there's, you know, the significant opportunity there, particularly the insurance market is looking pretty challenging at the moment within construction. I think most people would be aware of that. But certainly, as a as a combined operation, initial indications are that insurers see Screwfast as just another piling technique, which is absolutely correct. So adding adding a a number of million onto the revenue line should should create some efficiencies there. And and I think final final point I would make is to to Dan's comment earlier around access to capital. The access to capital clearly as a small business private business is not cheap, and so there's opportunity there for us to leverage the balance sheet strength that we've got.

33:41 In terms of the working capital modeling, we've done quite a lot of work on that. And with the, you know, operating at capacity within Superfast, we, you know, we've seen working capital increase from over the last two years from anything from sort of a flat working capital position to absorbing a couple of million. So 2,000,000 would sort of be the peak that we've seen historically. And that's really at the key points of purchasing significant materials for contracts. And then typically, Screwfabs have been able to achieve short payment terms against those items. We expect that to continue. And so it is very much a contract by contract working capital model seeing some significant volatility during the life of the contract. But again, I think to my point earlier, with the balance sheet strength that we've got in the liquidity headroom, there's nothing in there that gives us right course of concern in delivering against those contracts. In terms of the rail comment, I don't know Dan. Yeah.

34:42 Bring Dan in here. Dan, I'm sure you can set point point point three. Oh, I can't see it. Sorry. No. Would you like me to repeat that, Dan? Yeah. That'd great. Sorry. It's just to the question was what what you see as the opportunities for growth in rail, and do they include HS two? Well, yeah, I think so. I mean, based on recent discussions, and these are very recent discussions with the VAN ELLE team, there's obviously a a huge degree of opportunity in HS two. It's just understanding that from my perspective. I go back to my earlier point that there there has, there was, and there will always be a place for niche solutions in rail. So it was a number of the challenges of working on rail at weekends or midweek possessions, and I still I still believe they remain.

35:28 In terms of the size of those opportunities, yeah, I think I need a little bit more time with the VAN ELLE team to understand that. Great. Okay. Two last questions, which will will close us out quite nicely, I think. So the first one is to do with the energy sector. On the energy side, is there scope for renewable and nuclear power generation opportunities in the light of the PM's intentions of bringing forward carbon reduction targets? Alastair, thank you for that question. That isn't our primary focus, it's fair to say. We see, in terms of Screwfast, the main focus being substations and ancillary infrastructure. We already offer bigger piling solutions, which will be more appropriate for some of the bigger schemes that you're referring to here. And we have a a long track record in on on onshore, on land, wind farms, and and big power stations and things which, you know, across the wider group, we can we can continue to service. But Dan brings particular relationships with the regional, you know, substation asset owners and National Grid, for example, with with with their sorts of infrastructure.

36:41 So it does it does open doors for us. I just wanna go back as well and mention in terms of rail. You know, our rail division has a team focused on on exactly this sort of line side ancillary foundation engineering as well as, you know, track bed systems and and and slope stabilizations and electrification works and all sorts of stuff. So there's a very excited team here, not far from me, you know, focused on signaling programs, power supply programs. The likes of Siemens and Alstom, you know, are are are very interested in the sorts of stuff that Dan is doing and have, you know, already been in touch, and we've got teams working on developing opportunities straight away. So we see rail as one of the, you know, key opportunities here even though it's not currently part of what Screwfast are doing because the licenses to operate in the rail sector are quite prohibitive and already are in place within VAN ELLE.

37:38 So we're able to get off to a quick start, we hope. Great. Okay. And final question, which is quite a nice closer. Does the inclusion of Screwfast in the group give you a competitive edge over your traditional industry adversaries? Yes. It does. Yes. Excellent. Okay. Super. Alright. Well, look. Thank you, Mark, Graham, and Dan. There is a little more detail that we'll add to the q and a afterwards in written form, so we'll update you when that is available. Could I have asked asked investors not to close this session as you'll now automatically be red redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback? If you access this meeting from our website, the feedback page will appear. If you accessed it from a link sent to you by email, you will be asked to log in and submit your feedback.

38:24 If anyone has any further questions or would like additional information on VAN ELLE, please do get in touch via vanel@walbrookpr.com. Alternatively, many thanks for attending today's presentation.