Rathbones Group (LSE:RAT) — FY21 Results

0:01 Good afternoon, and welcome to the RATHBONES GROUP PLC investor presentation for the full year 2021 results. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and could be submitted at any time via the Q and A tab situated in the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your question and press send. Company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. Have the company review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll. I would like to apologize for the delay in starting this afternoon. I'd now like to hand you over to Jennifer Mathis, finance director and Paul Stockton, CEO. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you very much indeed. And nice to, nice to not see everyone, unfortunately. It'd be, great to be able to see all your faces, but we're talking into a screen, so do forgive that if we slightly miss a nuance.

0:49 But we are watching the q and a as we've just been talking about. So listen, thank you. It's new format for us, so we're very much welcoming the opportunity of having a chance to talk directly to retail investors. So really pleased with that. Let me then just give a

1:05 bit of a summary then. You you have Paul Stockton, chief executive of RATHBONES today. And maybe just to orientate you a little bit to give you an idea of RATHBONES at a glance after a rather messy day for investment managers yesterday. Certainly, RATHBONES is one of the largest independent wealth managers in The UK. We just published yesterday, funds under management of 68,200,000,000, and really, it's a business that's talking a lot about bespoke relationship based investment management, together obviously with financial planning capability following the acquisition of Saundersen House last year. So a lot of heritage in RATHBONES, established 1742 and all of that. So a company that's been there a long time, which of course resonates with clients that have wealth and that longevity, a very important point.

1:55 Market cap of 1,100,000,000,300, over 300 investment managers and over 200 financial planners, as you can see here, giving a much more, you know, balanced financial planning and advisory side to RATHBONES, as well as, of course, the the core investment management business as well. RATHBONES is also a bank, and RATHBONES also has a a unit trust, business as well. So financials, we'll, we'll go through in a little bit, but, the important thing to talk about, I think, before starting anything on RATHBONES is that the translation of our heritage into a very strong culture, which is very, you know, client centric, engaging, and collaborative, very important in markets like we're seeing today, where as a a tight touch business model, we are on the phone to our clients reassuring them, about, some of the ebbs and flows of the investment markets today.

2:47 And supporting that is a very robust investment process, a long way from a mixture of stockbroking models that were around, ten, fifteen years ago, much more institutional quality, style investment process supporting the core proposition. And RATHBONES, of course, has has grown to 68,200,000,000, not necessarily just organically. RATHBONES has been very much, growing through acquisition and inorganic opportunities. The last investment management acquisition being Spears and Geoffrey. So RATHBONES is a is a place that's very much secure in a growing and secular growth market, which is The UK wealth market. We have some international businesses through Jersey, but they're a small part of what we do.

3:33 We're largely UK focused.

3:37 So if asked to, write down what what the top sort of five things are, that, help support this very strong position, in The UK market. It would be a high quality brand, and that brand not only places us well in terms of being able to compete, and also engage with clients, but also it's a brand, that resonates with employees. It's a which essentially allows us to attract the talent that we need to in growing the business. It's also a brand that gives us a lot of opportunity to invest in the future, particularly as it to resonate with the next generation of wealth and also, specialisms, such as charities, such as Green Bank in in ESG, is a is a great offshoot of our core brand.

4:27 Now, of course, our distribution channels are, anywhere from direct clients, but also working through third party IFAs, and RATHBONES has a very strong range of propositions to those, parties as we sit here today. And that combines very much with that responsible investment capability, that I was talking about, before. Responsible investment is very much at the heart. ESG is not a new thing for RATHBONES. ESG has been done by the RATHBONES GROUP as a responsible investment process for over twenty years. And, again, that resonates. It's not just a new fad. It is something that's in our DNA. And as I said earlier, a growing advice footprint. And we are a bank as well, so we we'd like to to point point out, of course, in a rising interest rate environment, that is, quite a beneficial position to be in.

5:16 Two and a half years ago, we set out a strategy which is, consisting of four pillars, enriching the, client proposition and keeping that relevant, supporting growth directly, inspiring our people because they're incredibly important to us in a client facing business, and obviously, pursuing much more operational efficiencies.

5:34 And that strategy has certainly started a great deal of activity in the organization to drive organic growth, deliver against some of those strategic, priorities, and of course absorb big acquisitions that we have done like Spears and Jefferies.

5:52 So results today are showing funds under management growth of 24.7, PBT growth of 30.5% year on year, and that's underlying, not statutory, as Jenny will come on to in a moment, and a resilient margin of 27.7% with a strong growth in dividend of 12.5%. So a good financial and strong financial, year, for RATHBONES. And let me, hand over to Jenny now to give you a little bit more feel for that.

6:20 Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. So thank you, Paul. And here, we've got a slide here with some very positive headline KPIs, some of which Paul has just touched on. But the strong funds under management growth and performance has driven a 19% in operating income, and I'll take you through a bit more of that detail shortly. As Paul mentioned, underlying PBT up over 30% and a statutory PBT up over 100% of which, I will touch on in a couple of slides. So let's let's take a look at revenue. So operating income up 19% on 2020 at 436,000,000. So an increase of 70,000,000 and more importantly ahead of the growth in costs. So in here on this slide to the top two lines of the revenue split, you'll see, the investment management and funds fee income were up twenty five percent and thirty nine percent respectively, and that's well ahead of the benchmarks at the bottom of the table that we we look to the average FTSE 100 and the average MSCI.

7:21 So our strategy is to grow high quality fee income over commission income, and and and I hope you can see that these results bear that out. Let's just go to the next slide, and I'll take you through the rest of the revenue lines a little bit more detail. Here here, I'll show you a longer timeline on the key revenue contributors, and the trends are clear. The majority of our business comes from discretionary fees, and that's grown in recent years. So to familiarize a number of you, we we bought a firm called Spears and Geoffrey, in Scotland in 2018. And in October 2020, we started to move those clients onto our standard discretionary tariffs. So you can see that coming through here in the basis point return on discretionary fees and the corresponding reduction on commission in the bottom left hand chart.

8:12 I'm happy to take any questions on Spears and Geoffrey later, but it's been a very successful, acquisition. We've beat our beat our target synergies.

8:21 We've got a large much larger footprint now in Scotland managing over 11,000,000,000, and culturally an absolutely wonderful fit, across the business. So the other two revenue lines here at the top right is our advisory fee income, and this is where we split out our most recent acquisition, which was Saundersen House.

8:41 So we, Saundersen House joined us, mid October, so there's two and a half months of revenue and costs in these financials. And we've drawn that out there with revenue being just over 6,000,000. That aside, we have been investing in our own advisory advisory businesses, so our own RATHBONES financial planning business, our vision independent network, our trust business, etcetera. And you can see that that the returns there are continuing to grow since we started investing.

9:09 Finally, on the bottom right, basis point return from interest income. As Paul mentioned, we we have a banking license. And since rates have been suppressed since March 2020, you can clearly see that here on the chart. As as these rates increase, we will see this revenue line grow in 2022. Jenny, if I could interact there, interrupt there. There's a question from Paul s on that, impact of interest income of a 100 basis points increase in interest rates. That seems to be you got to answer that one now. Yep. No. I'll take that one now. So, today, we're at 50 bps, and that will generate in the region of, 8 to 10,000,000 of of net interest income this year, up from, 4,000,000 in total last year.

9:59 Then for the next 1% rise, so up to one and a half percent, it's in the range of 10 to 13,000,000 depending what markets are doing. And then it tapers off slightly because we're passing on that margin to clients where we do pay interest back to clients who are holding cash with us. So there's some rough numbers there that will move this back up to basis point returns we've seen historically. Okay. Thanks thanks, Paul, for the question. Turning turning the slide here to take a look at at costs. So as the business grew in 2021, our cost grew in line with plans and expectations, and more importantly, at a slower rate than revenue. So growing at 15% whilst facilitating our change plans is more than covered by the operating income growth of 19%.

10:46 I've been we've been talking about this in recent, presentations here. We are investing to grow, to facilitate our organic growth strategy, and that investment is across a number of fronts, strategically across digital solutions, client proposition, and investing responsibly to name just just three. We've also been busy enhancing and ensuring our run the business activities, are upgraded and ready to receive this digital investment that we've talked about, which will drive drivers having a more stable and digital friendly infrastructure and and ultimately a simplified operating model going forward. So what you can see here apologies. Got a printer in the background. That's just decided to fire up. Apologies if that's interfering with the with the volume.

11:37 So we have increase in fixed costs you'll see here of just over 10%, which that reflects over 200 hires we've made in the firm in 2021. And that's across all areas of the business and quite targeted on our strategic initiatives. Variable costs are driven by the results, you know, we've we've brought out today and the the growth in the business in funds under management and profits. And other operating expenses, are up 21%. You'll see that it's just over £17,000,000. And this is as a result of the nonstaff related investment I've mentioned, plus saunters and house costs of two and a half month two and a half months. So let's, so turning to profit, this is where I'll explain the the difference you see there in underlying PBT and PBT.

12:29 So a great result, 30%, increase in underlying PBT is up to nearly a 121,000,000. So a really strong performance whilst we've been investing in the business. And this has all come about through acquisition synergies, organic growth from the underlying business, and a recent acquisition providing us the operating leverage to drive higher profits. So the Spears and Jeffrey acquisition here, you'll see in the 2020 column, there was substantial acquisition related costs. The consideration structure when we bought Spears and Jeffrey, it was an employee owned businesses, and those employees remained with the firm. And so the way we had to pay for that business had to be treated as remuneration. And hence, we've been managing the business on an underlying PBT so that these costs, which are generally capital in nature, are clearly clearly set out. So you can see here that they, have reduced, substantially in 2021 as the Spears and Jeffrey, deferred payments are now, substantially complete.

13:32 And there's a small amount in there, 3,700,000 for Saunders and House, which is is much smaller than than the numbers, we've seen before for Spears, Geoffrey, because of the deal structure of that acquisition. As a result, see, better effective tax rates now coming through, and we expect that to reduce to two to four percentage points over the statutory rate of tax in 2022. And then down to EPS, basic EPS has been somewhat suppressed in recent years by that acquisition, those acquisition costs coming through. Hence, we've been pointing to underlying EPS, as we talk to to the markets and our investors. But what you can see now coming through in basic EPS is, how growth and underlying profits, are tracking much more closely in 2021.

14:23 And finally, to the dividend and our track record. You know, whilst the dividend was uncovered in 2019 and 2020, in 2021, the dividend we've declared is fully covered by statutory earnings. And this shows that we've delivered on our progressive and sustainable dividend policy even when statutory earnings are impacted by acquisitions, and this is what you should expect from us over time. So our dividend forms an important part of our total shareholder return, our TSR, that has consistently outperformed the FTSE All Share Index over the past ten years. Dividends will be, subject to shareholder approval at the twenty twenty two AGM on May 5 and dividend paid on May 10. So I think that is all my slides.

15:09 I'll keep an eye on the questions, and I will hand you back to Paul. Yeah. Jenny, thank you. There there is one in terms of the, current level of surplus capital in RATHBONES from Paul S. A good name that I thought. If you would possibly take that one, Jenny, how do we No. Happy to answer that, Paul. So yes. So despite an acquisition in the year and is guided at the time of acquisition, our capital position remains strong, and and the surplus is standing at around a 115,000,000. And that is higher than I guided at the time of the acquisition because since the half year, we've refinanced our tier two loan notes adding just shy of 28,000,000 to our own funds. So we we as a management team expect to hold a buffer above the regulatory requirements, but and then as you can see, our surplus is running much higher than that.

16:00 And Paul and I consistently talk how we hold this for investment in our organic growth strategy and for inorganic opportunities that that are able to advance our strategy, which is what you saw us do last June, in the acquisition of Saundersen House, and we're constantly looking. So, hopefully, that should answer that for now. Yes. Yes. Jenny, it does. We obviously, a couple of questions, and I think it's better that we're interactive here. There's a question from from John A on in terms of management fees, which I think going back to maybe page seven of the presentation would give you, John, a picture of what we're charging in terms of management fees. So that answers that part of your question there. I think in terms of bear in mind that, you know, there's two businesses, about 13,000,000,000 that's managed in what I would call a fund format.

16:54 That's a mixture of single strategy funds and multi asset funds, and the rest is in private client funds where, obviously, individual investment decisions are taken. In terms of performance, on those, the latter, where the performance compares favorably in the one, three and five year categories

17:13 of performance against relevant indices, so well positioned there. And I and in terms of the performance of some of the other single strategy funds, generally dominated by good performance in in Global Opportunities Fund and indeed Ethical Bond Fund, then we we've got pretty much historically some strong performance. There are two points I think that your question alludes to, which is the longevity of that. And certainly in the funds business, we we are always trying to produce very full some value reports for for our customers about of that fund. And we do that in a in a in a on an annual basis and making sure that we can justify the fee that we're charging based on, you know, external benchmarks and external assessments of of the value of those funds. Those reports are obviously available for each of our main funds.

18:09 In terms in terms of the performance of our of our main private client business, we've seen certainly a resolute revenue margin in terms of the offering there. We haven't changed our fees across RATHBONES for some time, although we did do some realignment for Spears and Geoffrey. But we are obviously focused very much on continuing to provide value there. So that was one of the first parts of your question. The second, of course, is that there are, by the way, some fees fee details on page 39 if you'd like any more detail. The last is about ongoing fee pressure. And of course, there is a little bit of that, which we try and respond to in light of any more normal commercial pressures. I wouldn't want to take over the whole presentation on pricing because that could take me some time. But I do hope, John, that's given you at least some comfort.

19:08 If I go then towards

19:11 more of the business update, I'll move everybody on to Slide 13, if that's okay. I could certainly try and cover some of the questions that you've raised as I'm going. So what I said earlier was a very clear strategy. I think you I hope you agree here. And this is effectively what we're trying to do across the across the business in the for those four pillars. In terms of facing the market, it's important now that we are recognizing in RATHBONES, there are solutions here that are not only facing the wealth management industry, but also the asset management industry. And both of those solutions, you know, have a b to b capability, accessing the financial advice market. In wealth management, that that managed fund solution is supplemented by a bespoke discretionary solution and also our own internal financial planning capability, which is delivered by Saunders and Harris, RATHBONES Financial Planning, and indeed a separate network called Vision.

20:13 We do run some nondiscretionary exit execution only other business, but it's, it's complementary to the main business. That's important because in analyzing how the business has grown, we very much focus on discretionary and managed fund solutions, and they are generating, as you can see in the chart here on on page 15, a 4.1% annualized growth rate. And in terms of the underlying discretionary part of the business, you can see that split very much between the direct business and indirect business, and all of those very much on a growing trend. And as you'll see from our webinar yesterday, if you can get access to it, very much, looking forward to the next few years where historical investment in capacity, our approach to responsible investment, a much greater traction in the financial advice market, and opportunities from the Saundersen House as well as our acquisition, as well as the opportunities from our multi asset range. Performance on that has been good, by the way. And equally, our our new green bank multi asset funds give us a very strong product set and process capability for future growth.

21:24 Our funds business, as I mentioned before, is includes that multi asset business, but also equity orientated funds and fixed income orientated funds. And there's there's a a question I think about in terms of how that's weathering some of the investment storms at the moment. But I think all to say at the moment is that very growth orientated funds will undoubtedly have performance suffer in the short term, but we have other offerings like an income fund or a high quality bond fund or high quality bond fund that will appear to investors that have slightly lower risk appetites than some of the growth orientated funds. So it's a highly, highly balanced, yeah, fund business, which is also, supporting as well our approach to, ESG.

22:14 So very briefly here, Green Bank, as I said earlier, is a 20 experience in this, and just launching the the multi asset fund is is a strong sentiment of what our capability is. In 2021, very much focused on investment process enhancement. This isn't a greenwashing story. It's a it's a selectively using our capability to reflect ESG factors into our security selection. And what that means is data selection and data, data supply and also making up our

22:45 own mind. And it's something that, as a as a firm, we take very, very seriously. Our investment managers this year were trained 100% in CISI training for responsible investment. So looking forward very much to the client engagement. As you'll be aware, we all need to engage our clients much more in terms of their ESG preferences, and our powerful stewardship track record is an important part of of that acts that that proposition going forward. I mentioned our planning capability and here you are on the slides, and this gives you a little bit more detail to what I was talking about earlier in terms of growth in number of advisers as well as growth in number of investment managers and also the revenue that's growing from advisory side of the business. Saunders and House is a strong acquisition for us, and yesterday we reiterated the acquisition targets that we were talking about there.

23:42 I'm keen to get on to questions. Some of you have mentioned in terms of M and A and track record of acquisitions, and I'll take a couple of those questions, now. John A, thank you for your question on transformational M and A. Look, in general, we you know, approach to M and A in generally is is opportunistic. By its very definition, you can't just fuse together lots of opportunities in a client orientated, people orientated business model. But what you can do is look for cultures that are very common and similar. So there are opportunities, I still think, in the private client market and indeed in the advice market, for larger M and A, but, of course, that, increases execution risk. So very important that those cultural and synergistic assessments for any m and m and a business are right.

24:34 As you know, RATHBONES has tried, in the past to get together with Smith and Williamson. That didn't happen, but that doesn't to say that we're not looking at those types of opportunities on a pretty regular basis. In terms of fund management, I think the culture is even more important, but, also there are there may well be some opportunities in terms of, looking at some complementary, fund mandates that we don't have in in the, in the business. But that's not, not a priority right now, particularly. So in terms of any other questions, just go back to that for the moment on M and A because there were a couple. In terms of multiples paid by private equity for private client businesses, yes, it is, private equity has very much entered the market right now, and, has been for for some years.

25:31 Those multiples are challenging, and have obviously demanded a number of, cost synergies as a result. So, what I do expect though are a number of exits from private equity, because it's about that time with a sort of four to five year time frame from, some of them originally investing. But equally, I also see other, private equity providers being interested in the sector, mainly in terms of our, the ability of the sector to leverage technology, which is a nice segue in a way in terms of the plans in the future. So in terms of our digital platform, that's that's our plan very much is to upgrade our digital digital capability. And as you can see here, going from '21 to '23, we've already started this journey by launching apps and, building some of our data capability and upgrading our custody and settlement system.

26:29 That means we don't have to replatform our our technology capability, but we can focus on what is going to be that one of the a major differentiator, I think, for the wealth management industry in terms of how digital impacts the client engagement. So how we prospect, how we onboard, how we service our clients is is going to be absolutely crucial. But this is not building a digital channel. This is supplementing a tailored face to face bespoke offering that already exists within RATHBONES. So fusing, if you like, the human and the digital here is our goal. And equally, given the significant growth in our fund business, putting in a an institutional quality asset management system is another important part of what we're trying to do, as well as, of course, keep, our My RATHBONES apps and portals, and client interfaces, flexible.

27:22 Really important point because the client of the future is going to require Apple like functionality. It's always gonna have changing preferences. So very important that we provided, you know, the budget and indeed the flexibility in the operating model to be able to achieve that. And that's why in 2023, enhancements, revisions, and ongoing development will be so much more important, which will be factored into dynamic client reporting. So really important that this isn't a soup to nuts technology spend. This is something that is very much bolted on to the very capable technology we already have. We already have the team to deliver. We already have vendors in InvestCloud Object Way and Charles River that are innovative and highly collaborative working with us. It will reduce our complexity, number of systems that we're running, and it's really reassuring to see the amount of client focus that's going in design, at the moment.

28:22 Data quality is also very important. No point to have a technology system without data. And as I mentioned earlier, this agile approach to development is really, really important. In terms of return on that, Paul, thank you for your question. I think the return we will see in a number of a number of areas. From an efficiency perspective, there's no question that the amount of paper that's in our organization at the moment can be significantly reduced. The amount of mailing that we're doing, the amount of emailing that we're doing, the amount of self-service that our clients are able to do and are willing to do versus our investment managers are working around at the moment is quite a sizable, bit of gain here. And that will have not only a knock on effect in terms of efficiency productivity to get our people working on the more valuable parts of what they do, but they will also, of course, have an impact in reducing costs and tangible costs, like paper.

29:20 But of course, what we're hoping for as well with some of the other growth initiatives that we're undertaking, we're expecting a a return in terms of growth that we'll be able to see coming through, after we put in some of these digital tools. So I hope that answers your question, Simon, on on that. So in terms of that overall, that, that is our digital, and I'll hand over to Jenny to talk about the financial outlook while I try and decipher some of the other questions that are happily coming in the right hand side of my screen. Great. Thank you, Paul. So so looking ahead, so we've got some exciting developments ahead in terms of digital and really that client experience journey being added onto the RATHBONES, you know, very strong face to face relationship based approach.

30:09 So this is gonna cost 40,000,000 of operating expenses over the next two years. So that's the financial years of 2022 and 2023. That aligns with the sort of the road map that Paul just outlined. The the key point to note here is expenditure will be in operating expenses, not CapEx. We're working with modern cloud based and software as a service operating models, and so no longer developing legacy proprietary systems that so they don't qualify for capital expenditure. We we have confident we're in the momentum in the business that we've seen in the 2021 results that this is the right time for this, and it's you know, it was always part of the five year plan that Paul and I laid out in 2019. So we we are taking this through through the p and l, and it's being funded through growing our operating leverage and and profits.

31:01 And ultimately, we'll end up with a simplified operating model across the group with the ability to leverage the latest days latest digital solutions. We won't be incurring the depreciation cost from this, investment over, you know, many years to come. And it will release productivity, efficiency, prospecting. So I think there was there was a kind of a question earlier on, you know, how how do I measure the return on this investment? As Paul's touched on, it's taking, laborious processes, away from our our very skilled investment management teams, allowing them more time to prospect with clients and the tools to support that prospecting, and invest and reinvest in our in our capacity instead of having to just add lots more people on. Particularly in the funds business, we're gonna you know, partnering with Charles River and big robust industrialized, management platform there to allow that business to continue to grow in an efficient manner.

32:01 So taking this all into account, our operating margin guidance, as you can see here on the slide, will continue to be a mid twenties guidance for 2022 and '23. But beyond that, we expect to return to the higher twenties range from 2024. So operating margins returning to range of 27% to 30% by the end of twenty twenty four. And throughout this time, you should expect us to maintain our progressive dividend policy throughout this period. So, Paul? Jenny, thank you. I I wanna go to John May's question. And there's a reason, John, as an asset management business, giving five year funds under management targets are not helpful. Because I can tell you the funds under management at December 31 are going to be different from what they are today.

32:47 Those external events are quite difficult to control. But I think what I can can say is the operating margin guidance that Jenny's just given should give you a good idea in terms of when we go back to that in two years' time that where we can control things, which are growth, and you're looking at an annualized growth rate of 4.1%, which we'd like to build on, plus the fact that we can control the costs, that's reflected very much in the sort of later 20s, twenty seven percent to 29%, 30% operating margin guidance that Jenny has just given. So that's the best way to judge this business. It's an asset management business. So year on year, in light of market conditions, is how we judge our success. And obviously, with a chart like the dividend chart that Jenny's just shown you, judging looking back with hindsight in terms of dividend growth and whether we've delivered against a progressive dividend policy will equal equally as be be as important.

33:49 So that that's not as clean as a a nice five year target that we're going for, mainly because external factors impact the the the leverage part of this business quite significantly. So but I hope we've given you enough to do a small amount of math to to get to to get through to that. I think the the last thing I wanted to say today is that this is what, in a nutshell, we RATHBONES model is trying to create. We have a culture inside the organization of thinking, acting, investing, and indeed advising responsibly, as well as, obviously, a mission to grow client wealth and build their financial security. And that latter bit on digital is about being much more easy to to do business with than we are today. And if you combine that with a personal service that is gonna essentially be for both clients and advisers, blended human and digital, as I mentioned earlier, and it's supported by continued investment in investment processes, skills, depth, and advice quality with high standards of corporate responsibility that will resonate with both clients and investors and employees importantly, then those are really important factors that build trust, reputation, and, of course, long term value and growth in what is, as I said right at the start of the presentation, a secularly growing market.

35:13 So in nutshell, that is what we're trying to do. We're very committed to it, and we have an exciting 2022 and beyond that I hope we've been able to convey a little bit. There's one question from Paul S. In terms of income growth to maintain profits and fixed staff costs, I think, Paul, I would probably go back and just point again to our operating margin guidance on that one, if you'll forgive me, rather than going into very specific sensitivity, if you like, on income versus cost. So I hope that kills that question satisfactorily for you. So in a nutshell, I'd like to thank you all very much for dialing in. I wish I could see you, but I can't.

35:58 Hopefully, the audio has been very clear. But much appreciated your time today. Thank you very much. Paul, Jennifer, thank you. Audio has been crystal, Paul. Thank you. Thank you both so much for the presentation and being so interactive in answering all the questions that we've had come through. And ladies and gentlemen, if you do have any further questions, please do submit them just using that Q and A tab just situated on the right hand corner of the screen. I'll give the company just a few moments if there are anything questions that further come through. But just to remind you that recording the presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published q and a will be able to be accessed via your investor dashboard on the investor meet company platform. By the looks of it, Paul, Jennifer, you've been too efficient in answering all the questions as we've gone, and you've given a fantastic summary there, Paul. Just in case there's any further words just to give before we conclude.

36:47 No. Just a big thank you to every everybody. It's platform for us, and it's been great to see how well it's worked. And hopefully, everybody's got something out of it. So thank you again for providing it. That's wonderful. Thank you. Thank you both for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close the session? It should be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order the management team can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete and is greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team with RATHBONES GROUP PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That concludes today's event, and good afternoon to you all.