Quadrise (LSE:QED) — Update on bioMSAR and MSAR Projects

0:04 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the QUADRISE PLC investor presentation update on Bio MSA and MSA. Throughout this presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time via the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply click Q and A, type your question and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it received during the meeting itself. However, the company review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. These will be available via your investment company dashboard, and you'll be notified

0:36 once they're ready for your review. I'd also like to remind you this presentation is being recorded. Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to Mike Kirk, chairman and Jason Miles, CEO of QUADRISE PLC. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you very much, and good afternoon, everyone, on what is a very bright and sunny day, certainly where I am and and perhaps over much of The UK, but definitively in England given the result last night. I can't promise you anything as, sort of nail biting as the, the match last night, but I hope everyone is is looking forward to the update. Obviously, the RNS went out on Monday morning. We'll get through the presentation as quickly as we can because, as always, we know you've got lots of questions, and that's the real value of having this sort of of meeting is the ability for you to put the questions to us. So with no further ado, I'm gonna start as usual. I'm gonna give a brief introduction, then Jason will come and give the sort of real nuts and bolts and details surrounding our work on bio MSR and the projects that we're actively pursuing with our clients.

1:43 I'll then come in, give a brief resume of where we've got to, and then we'll go straight into the q and a session.

1:57 I think I'm going go through this really quickly because I'm assuming most of you are reasonably familiar with us, but we are a unique business which is providing a solution which is reducing heavy fuel oil oversupply. It's economic because it's saving refinery distillates and it's providing cheaper energy. We'll come on to tell you a little bit more about some issues that are affecting us right at the moment about that. But definitively as well, it's giving less pollution, it's much cleaner to use, it burns more like a gas and significantly reduces particulates and NOx emissions. We're also going to come on and tell you a little bit more about BioAMSAR. It doesn't seem like only around six months ago that we actually announced this to the market back in December of last year.

2:44 Things have really progressed very rapidly on this, and we're really excited to tell you about that. But it's patent pending technology where we're putting around 40 to 50% of renewable glycerin together with water and residues to create bioemSAR. It's giving us the same sort of reductions in NOx and particulates that MSAR delivers, but it's also reducing, c o two and s o two as well. We think this is a real game changer, and we're really excited to be able to tell you a little bit more about it.

3:15 Just a little bit more about what I said there in terms of where we are on on MSAR itself. And again, I'm not going to read through the whole of this slide, but essentially, what we got in 2020 was an overlay of the changes that the market was already expecting as a result of IMO twenty twenty together with COVID. And as a result, it had a really significant impact on the market. And in particular, we'd already expected to see a reduction in HFO demand. But what we then got was actually the overall reductions in demand during 2020 as a result of the pandemic, particularly in distillate products in the transportation and aviation sectors. And that actually ended up sort of skewing where the the market spreads were during the course of the year. That has continued.

4:08 And as a result of that, a number of finays actually reconfigured. And in many cases, what they're doing is producing HFO in a fundamentally different way, which requires much less in the way of distillates as cutter stock, and therefore, the ability to put in add value for us is currently a little more challenging than it was. We are do expect it to actually recover during the course of, this calendar year, particularly as the, the the global pandemic starts to recede and we see the economic recovery that I know we are very much all hoping for. But to be very clear, we are targeting both the heavy sulphur fuel oil market and the very low sulphur fuel oil market with both with MSAR.

4:53 And we'll come on and tell you a little bit more about bio MSAR and how that might fit in with some of the opportunities that we are looking at in the, marine market as well. And then just a little bit of a taster about sort of bio MSAR. This is the area where we've also seen some changes during the course of the last two, three months, actually really significantly. And these changes have been really, really positive, but they've also had an impact on us as a business because we're having to bring forward our development and testing of BioNSAL. We're seeing quite a few refineries who are now focusing on biofuels and renewables and carbon capture projects. What we're also seeing is people are really pulling this through a lot quicker than we thought even at the beginning of this year.

5:39 So we are having to accelerate the testing and development of bioemstar. And as a result of that, there are some changes that we expect to see. Jason is going to tell you a little bit more about this, but it is, we think, a really, really positive development that we've seen during the course of this year. Thank you, Mike. So in terms of the acceleration of our plans, the testing that we we had planned with the Valtsele engine with VTT in Finland has recently completed. And we're expecting reports during the coming month from from VTT, which will then look to summarize, obviously, on our website and publish to, obviously, to shareholders. And and then, obviously, that goes on to then discussions with with with MSC and with the OEMs in terms of, you know, accelerating the bio MSR testing on for the low nose.

6:39 We also are, in parallel, doing some further work. If you remember if you remember, originally, the first testing on a diesel engine was done with with Aqua Fuel on a high speed four stroke engine, it's owned by us. We've done some further modifications to the engine to enable some more detailed analysis of performance and NOx to look at further optimization on on both bio Mcell and potentially Mcell fuel when it's being used in a, you know, in that type of diesel engine. So there's some further work that's planned with with Aqua Fuel this coming quarter together with some additional development work and testing on fuel formulations that offer most of the testing today has been done on a on a fuel formulation that's got about 40% glycerin, which offers about a 20% reduction in c o two. There are other opportunities to increase the glycerin content to, you know, attain further reductions in c o two between 3050%.

7:40 So that's there's some there's some testing planned for that during this year as well as, obviously, to commercialize the use of BioEmstar. What we're looking to do is essentially go into the the refining of crude glycerin that provides a low cost feedstock of glycerin for for fuel. And there's proprietary technology and actually off the shelf technology available to do that. So we're we're talking with some of the main suppliers of of that technology as well as well as some more detailed market research and engagement with some of the the companies that are already in that business and have availability of crude glycerin for use. Having said that, you know, the the market for for glycerin is limited once it gets to a certain scale. There's just over 4,000,000 tons available, you know, of crude glycerin that goes to glycerin worldwide.

8:35 So, you know, the expectation is at some stage, the, you know, the glycerin market will become limited for bioemcelor production in far into the future. And as a result, we need need to look at other production sources. So some work has been initiated already with the University of Greenwich, professor Pat Harvey's team there. He's been involved in various different work on the use on the on microalgae and essentially the extraction of of glycerin from microalgae to make glycerin and other byproducts of from that type of algae. So there's some work that's commissioned there, which will take place during the second half of the year, as well as some parallel testing on on other fuels, other renewable feedstocks such as lignans and pyrolysis oils.

9:24 We are getting samples sent to our labs during the second half of the year for for further testing of those types of materials to to look at compatibility

9:34 and the ability to essentially produce a net zero fuel, you know, by 2030 as a longer term initiative.

9:45 In terms of the the main projects, we have, obviously, the MSC project that's in the marine sector where, obviously, they're a very large shipping company which we'll come on to. We have the project in Utah, which is an upstream opportunity with a very low sulfur, sort of heavy sweet material that could be applied to the marine and power sectors. And then we have an industrial consumer in Morocco. So we'll go into into detail into each of those projects now. So with MSC, I won't belabor the point that they're one of the biggest shipping companies, so container shipping companies in the world with a large cruise line associated with them. They're also early adopters of environmental technology and biofuels. They're large consumers of biofuels in in previous years.

10:36 So the plans with them is still to to commence the low note trials at the end of the year. Obviously, that's you know, that that the the pressure on us now to to get things underway to make that happen. There's been some slight delays in in getting started because there's been discussions around the possibility of advancing the the use of bio MSA in that testing. There's obviously lots of pressure on the on the marine sector to decarbonize. And because bio MSR is one of the the few few biofuels that that really applies itself very well to the marine sector and is not being not really applicable for the transportation or aviation sectors, But MSC are quite keen to advance the testing and use of of bio MSAR.

11:25 So that's that's obviously put a a change in focus in terms of, you know, how we produce the fuel, where we produce it from. So that's that's delayed some of the the commencement and, obviously, the sign off of the various different agreements that need to take place to advance the the trial to the next phase. So, essentially, that's where we are. We are looking to to sign off various agreements now in terms of production to finalize which vessels will be utilizing the fuel and bunkering bunkering the the hopefully by MSR at the end of the year. And then the intention is that that project will you know, the learner trials will commence and run the four thousand hours. And sometime around the middle of next year, depending on when we start, then the four thousand hours will be utilized.

12:13 Now as before with with Maersk, the Maersk trial, you know, there'll be an interim inspection halfway through. So sometime in q two, you know, we should have the interim inspection to see how things have progressed, you know, certainly with the bio M cell at the at the halfway phase. And that'll give a very good point as to, you know, the commercial reality of BioEmSAR as a fuel for the marine sector. So exciting times. As a quote mentioned, obviously, you know, there's lots of there's lots of pressure on the sector to to look at lots of different options, you know, and that that has to some degree that does occupy people's time in the sector. So, you know, class societies that are involved in this, the OEMs, They're under a lot of pressure to look at lots of different fueling options.

13:03 So, you know, the availability of resources in in that sector has to be prioritized to the decarbonization efforts, which is, again, the reason for advancing the bio MSAR development work that we're doing now.

13:17 With Utah, essentially, what we have is a client with in Greek Greenfield that's a joint venture with Valkor and Tomco. They're operating or running a test at the PetroTech facility. And then with the intention that, you know, running that particular technology, the PetroTech oil sands plant, that they'll then deploy that at another facility that the greenfield will purchase. And then, obviously, Petrotech still have their own facility as well where the where the technology is already installed. So we've been eagerly awaiting samples for quite a few months now as I'm sure shareholders will patiently remember, we've had some we we previously had some interim samples, which were not representative.

14:04 But now that the technology is is up and running and working as it should do, we have some drums that are essentially ready to be ready to ship and and the process of being shipped across to The UK as we speak.

14:17 The plan is to, within three weeks of receipt, actually run the the MSAR testing work. We're also incorporating now the possibility of also testing a bio MSAR because we think that's a viable opportunity in the in The US to produce a bio MSAR version of the Utah material as well. And that really offers in a low sulfur opportunity both for very low sulfur fuel oil, which is the original intention, but also bioemcelor as well to fit with the, you know, the zero carbon technology that Petrotech had developed. With respect to Morocco, we have had a guy on-site this week. Bernard visited the site this week from our team to to review the facility and make sure everything's ready.

15:06 Very worthwhile visit. And just confirmed, obviously, that, you know, what was what was there and the the process of getting in and out of sight are ready to receive us are ready eagerly ready to receive us, I would say. So we've done all of the work on our side. All the equipment's been fabricated at QRF. You can see some pictures on the right hand side of the of the presentation in some terms of some of the materials that we've made in terms of pumping and heating units,

15:33 burner burner lances and swirlers and burner tips. So all of those things have actually been fabricated in in QRF. Picture in the bottom right is is a facility that we'll be carrying out the the test in the kiln on the in site B. That will take place during q three. The equipment that we're sending out there in terms of the pumping and heating unit is applicable for utilization then in site a. So that will be moved to the main site where we carried out the the pilot trial, as you may recall, at the end of twenty twenty. And then the intention is then to sign the commercial agreement, obviously, subject to a refinery supply of MSAR going forward for supply to the clients as early as, you know, the early part of twenty twenty two.

16:21 Back to you, Mike. You're on mute. Yeah. Thanks, Jason. Again, I'm just going to go very quickly because I can see questions coming in now. But clearly, we were delighted with the successful fundraise, which was a mixture of a placing and an open offer, both of which were very heavily subscribed. And again, just like to thank all of the shareholders. Whether you participated in that or not, a lot of you have been along with us for a long period of time, and it is much appreciated. We just outlined to you there how we're going through the process of addressing the major projects that we've got during the course of this year with MSC in Utah and in Morocco. Obviously, we've also got on top of that all the work that we're doing on bioemstar testing and development and then the longer term work that we're doing in relation to, looking at how we would, at large scale, produce glycerin and refined glycerin for the production of commercial bioemstar to a number of clients.

17:24 What we'll also be doing, and, again, I can see a number of questions have come in on this, that we are continuing to look at other opportunities. These are not the only things that we are looking at by any means, but they are our key focus. And we do know that we want to and are very highly committed to ensuring that we meet the timelines that we've we've outlined here both to you, our shareholders, and to our clients. But we are looking at these other opportunities. And as and when things progress, we will be providing you updates on those as well.

17:57 And again, I think just in summary, we've got in MSAR a technology which enables a traditional heavy fuel oil type product to actually burn much more like a gas, deliver significant benefits to the consumers and to the refiners. We'll come on and tell you a little bit more about some very short term perturbations around economics there. It significantly, though, reduces NOx, black certain carbon emissions and particulates, and we're also starting to address now our work on bioemcel,

18:28 which is giving us a renewable solution that's also enabling some material reductions in c o two to be delivered. We've got this broad picture of pipeline and project opportunities that we've got out there. We're using some carefully selected partners globally. And again, we'll come on to pick that up under our Q and A about how we continue to use those throughout our business development activities. And we're now fully funded through to the second half of twenty twenty two. Again, we are absolutely still on that basis

19:00 of we are positioned to ensure that we can deliver sustainable commercial revenues during the course of 2022 and that we'll be looking at accelerated testing development of bioemstar. And we're going to continue our business development activities, including those with the major national oil companies and with other marine, and we'll be looking also at other ESG opportunities as well. I hope that's given you a good overview of where we are to date. I've seen lots of questions coming in, so we will,

19:34 as we always do, get around to answering all of those. If we can't do it during the course of the session today, they will all be published on the Investor Meat Company website. Thank you very much. Mike, Jason, thank you very much indeed for that presentation. As Mike said, ladies and gentlemen, do please continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of the screen. Just while the team take a few moments to review those investor questions submitted already, I'd like to remind you the recording of the presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed from your dashboard on the investor meeting company platform. I'd also like to remind you that your feedback is important to the company. And immediately after the presentation has ended, you'll be redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the company can better understand your views and expectations.

20:21 Mike, Jason, as you say, you've had a number of questions in during the meeting itself. Attendees did have the opportunity to pre submit questions, and you very kindly have responded to these, which we'll publish again with the live questions on the platform itself. But we have

20:34 got some here that we'll we'll start off the session with, if we may. The first one reads as follows. Given the comment relating to the headwinds impacting MSAR's attractiveness and refinery configurations, where will we source residue from for subsequent MSAR bio MSAR rollout on the completion of successful projects leading to commercial contracts? Yeah. I think in terms of the headwinds mentioned in the RNS, they really relate to sort of quite fundamental changes in demand. The first happened well over twelve months ago now with respect to, obviously, changes to the IMO regulations. And that determines, obviously, a large reduction in high sulfur fuel oil production in terms of who was using what.

21:21 But then this, obviously, during the period of the pandemic, that's also had a massive impact in terms of refinery restructuring and reconfiguration. The drop in the quite catastrophic drop in demand in middle distillate fuels and aviation fuel especially has meant that many refineries have been shut down and may not ever return. And so there's some of other refineries are only operating at half capacity. So the units that are operating that would operate normally under a normal environment essentially when demand is back to where people would expect, those units are not running. So essentially, the availability of some of the heavy residue streams is really limited to the key suppliers who are really servicing the marine hubs. So, you know, a lot of high sulfur fuel oil is still being manufactured and sold in the marine hubs. Well, over a million barrels a day of, you know, high sulfur fuel oil has stayed very flat throughout the pandemic for the marine sector, and another million barrels a day has actually gone into Saudi Arabia as an example.

22:28 So, you know, essentially, that demand is

22:33 for high sulfur fuel oil is there, but it's that demand has really become more focused around a sort of set number of refineries. Thanks indeed, Jason. Perhaps another one actually for you, just really an extension of that question, I guess. When can we expect 100% renewable bioemstar formulation to be produced and tested?

22:51 And also, what options do we have to replace glycerol and bioemstar if supply availability does become an issue?

22:58 Yeah. So in terms of supply availability of glycerin, the key thing for a fuel application is obviously a low cost energy source. So the first thing to do is to deploy commercial scale technology to refine crude glycerin at a at a low cost. And and that technology is available. It's off the shelf. It uses conventional refining type technology that we utilize in the oil space anyway. So, fortunately, in that regard, you know, there's lots of we're not taking technology leap there whatsoever. And there's there's also additional capacity that's available to process crude glycerin for for that requirement in the short term. In the longer term, you know, as the the glycerin market may become saturated, you know, essentially, you know, if if we come along and start consuming large amounts of glycerin for bioemstar, then we need another source. And that's why we're looking at the alcohol production of glycerin.

23:57 And then in parallel, you know, looking at some of the other renewable sources that went which renewable fuels that may fit very well with the water based system that we offer with that with our MSR technology. So, you know, we're looking at a number of avenues in parallel. The first thing is to to really commercialize bio EMSAR and establish commercial commercial supply. And then glycerin availability should hopefully be a nice problem to have.

24:22 Fantastic. Thanks, Jason. The next one we have here is, has there been any development with other global partners such as Bitumenor, API Poly, Freeport, Merlin, etcetera?

24:34 No. At this stage, we're continuing to talk to a number of partners. But with those particular people, there haven't been a focus, and there's nothing really material for us to update on at this point. That's great. Thank you, Mike. And and I guess another kind of partner ish question. Is there any development through the Carlyle Group synergies identified in prior updates? Again, it's one where we are continuing to have those discussions, but there's nothing to actually update on at this particular point in time.

25:04 Okay. Thank you very much indeed. If we can just run down to perhaps the next one, which I think is probably just based on some of the projects. We've got a number of questions relating to the KSA, Ecuador, and Mexico projects. Just a general update. If you could give any further color on those, that'd be really helpful. If I sort of take KSA, then I think I'll I'll hand over to Jason to talk about Ecuador and Mexico. I think in terms of KSA, interestingly, I think Jason sort of outlined to you,

25:34 when you talk sort of to to the sort of relevant entities in KSA, they are looking to reduce heavy fuel oil demand in the market play in in terms of its use in power production. When you actually look at what they're doing on a day to day basis, they are significantly increasing it. That creates quite a challenge for us because privately, publicly, they don't see it as something that they want to invest in in the very longer term.

26:02 In actual fact, what they're actually doing is using more and more of it. So we see the benefits of of MSAR and bio MSAR increasing there. But frankly, at this point in time, we've actually got better opportunities in terms of receptiveness that we're continuing to follow. A number of those are the projects we've outlined, and actually a number of those are other opportunities that that Jason can come on and tell you about now.

26:28 Yeah. In terms of Ecuador and and Mexico, you know, with Ecuador, we made excellent progress during 2020. And then, essentially, that slowed down a little bit as there was a a national election looming. There were rumors then or or plans in place to actually privatize the the refinery, Esmeraldas refinery, which is one of the main candidates for, you know, for MSAR testing and production. But really, with with Equador, there's such a great fit for MSAR technology because they're having to import distillates to actually manufacture fuel in that particular refinery. So, you know, the ability to to switch to MSR and and solve a balance of trade issue is is pretty compelling. Leading up to the national election, there were obviously plans in place to privatize. There was a a very large restructuring. It was well of the the national oil company there, sort of leading to some changes in personnel.

27:25 Having said that now, the the election is now complete, and there's some clarity sort of beginning to emerge in in terms of the future of the refinery. But, you know, until that's essentially made made public, then we can't progress. But essentially, where we are is, you know, we we have our feet in in both camps. We are working with the national company there, but we're also talking with some of the potential suitors that could take over operation at that particular refinery in in either case.

27:56 In in terms of Mexico, you know, events have been quite slow there. I guess there's some people can lay some criticism due to COVID, but it it is one area, one part of the world where there's there's been there's definitely been some quite severe limitations in terms of the speed of doing business in in that particular part of the world. We've been awaiting sign up on of an NDA that's that's taken pretty much a year now, which is ridiculous, I guess, to a lot of people. But having said that now, you know, we we we are in the we're we're very close to signing the NDA and progressing in Mexico. And there's within Mexico, there's a huge amount of fuel oil that's now utilized for power generation. There's a national decree essentially for for the local power generator there to actually utilize fuel oil. There's a glut of fuel oil in Mexico, which is why obviously there's been this national decree.

28:50 And, you know, essentially, you know, what they're what they're looking to do is reduce the cost of fuel oil production and reduce the environmental impact of actually burning fuel oil as well. So there's there's there's a there's always been a good fit with with MSO in Mexico. But now there's a national imperative as well that that fits very strategically with potentially implementation of MSO. So this that's one area of the world where, you know, we're looking to make some much better progress in the next twelve months.

29:21 That's great. Thank you very much indeed. Mike, Jason, we obviously got an awful number of questions come through as you usually do get. We have got a few more pre submitted questions. We have kindly responded to some of these on the platform, which we can put back out and publish to people. May I just perhaps ask you just to click on that Q and A tab and just start at the top and where appropriate, read out the question and give you a response to some of the live ones. That would be great. Right. Thank you. And I'll go right from the top. So, Mark, do we still expect revenues in h two twenty twenty one? Yes. That is absolutely our current expectation. Jason, I don't know whether you want to pick up the the next one regarding to other shipping companies. In terms of do you expect other shipping companies apart from embassy to start the low note trials?

30:08 Yeah. I don't think at the moment, our main focus is on making sure that the the MSC trials progress according to plan. There's quite a lot of work that actually needs to be done to get any low no trial underway. I saw there was another question further down about what is a low no? What does it mean? A low no is basically a letter of no objection trial on an engine in well, basically, a on a live vessel. So what that means is that, you know, we load our fuel onto a vessel that's in commercial service, and that vessel is then powered by by our fuel. So there's there's a lot of work that that's needed and preparation that's needed so that the vessel is ready to receive a new fuel, that the fuel system is in place to to actually utilize bioemsoir in this particular case.

31:02 And then and then and then essentially that that vessel will then operate each letter of no objection vessel will operate for four thousand hours. And the intention, you know, is to run or or to pick some MSVC vessels which are representative of their fleet. And that means, ideally, a vessel that's got an MAN engine on,

31:24 an ME engine that's that's manufactured by MAN diesel, and also a Varsula Flex engine as well. I'll pick up the next one, Mark. And, again, I think I addressed this, but, you know, have there been any developments in KSA within the last six months? And if not, why not?

31:46 No. They haven't. I think, you know, the rationale for that, it's really not a focus of ours. What we said now, I think, two or three months ago was that we think in terms of real engagement in The KSA and in Kuwait and other markets there, we think delivery of commercial success in in any of the other projects that we're talking about here, whether that's in marine, in industrial or in the upstream market, will enable us to have a much more meaningful and relevant conversation with the relevant stakeholders in those particular markets. So it's not something that we're going to be rushing into at this point.

32:23 The next question is, will there be an agreement between QFI and MSC in the next few weeks? I don't think we should really comment on the timing of that, but further agreements between MSC and QUADRISE will definitely need to be in place and other third parties in terms of the production of bioMSA for these particular trials. So we can't comment on timing, but further agreements are definitely planned. And in terms of the Utah samples, Jason? Yeah. I've the the the plan at the moment is to get those air freighted across sooner rather than later, but I can't I can't confirm that that's been finalized as yet, but that that's definitely the the intention. And we've got a question here from Vic a, who I I don't know who Vic a is. So thank you very much for the pick. If you excuse me. I'm not gonna read the whole thing out. But in essence, what Vic is saying is that,

33:13 actually, the delays are much more significant than we've actually put in the r and s. And that as a result of that, we're actually, you know, not paying due regard to our shareholders and and that blaming COVID is a bit of a poor excuse. I hope that's gone over the sentiment, which is, you know, I think, yeah, I perfectly well understand it. They if I come back on a couple of things, but then let Jason give you some thoughts on this. I think, first and foremost, when when you say what was put in that RNS back in January about the the work

33:47 that would be carried out in the first three months, my understanding is the vast majority of that work has actually been carried out. What Jason has outlined in terms of the issues that we faced in the market, it's not just directly COVID related. It's a mixture of COVID and actually the real increase that we're seeing in the interesting bio and renewables fuels. And obviously, these tests, we need support from the OEMs. And those OEMs have actually been quite stretched, and they've been focused on things to do with renewable fuels rather than existing fossil fuels. So we have tried to provide you with an accurate overview of what has happened. We understand it's frustrating when things take a little bit longer, but, you know, we've tried to give you the background as to why that's been the case while still saying, and then we this is what we currently believe is that that is not having an overall impact on our plans. It's putting a lot of pressure on us to deliver that, but it's not having an overall impact on the time scale of those plans.

34:51 Jason, I don't know whether there's anything else you wanted to sort of add to that.

34:55 I don't think so, Mike. I think you covered it pretty well, actually. Right. Jason, maybe the next one, just a bit more about the headwinds. And I think this is primarily what what impact we're seeing on the economics of MSAR at the moment, in in particular, refineries. Yeah. And I think we covered it to some degree in the previous answer as well, Mike. Yeah. You know, the headwinds, you know, we certainly see it as sort of temporary at the moment. But it you know, in terms of how refineries are configured and operating at the moment, that's certainly different to how it was eighteen months ago. So that really affects the availability of sort of the high viscosity, low value material from a refinery perspective. Having said that, you know, we are that

35:41 doesn't apply to projects that we're working on, for instance, in in Utah, where we're talking about a heavy sweet oil stream anyway. And it doesn't affect some of the, you know, some of the impacts of, you know, the projects that we're working with at a national level as well that we've been doing in terms of Ecuador and Mexico. So, you know, there are it's every refinery is different. It's not the same. It's hard to be generic about this. And I guess, you know, people may sort of cast aspersions to us that that would be that being vague, but it it's very difficult to be specific because every case is very different when you speak to each refinery. They have their own particular case. So, you know, what what we're saying is that, essentially, you know, the headwinds that we're seeing are really linked to demand, and that has changed during COVID. And that's that's that's no denying that.

36:31 But having said that, we see demand recovering. We see distillate spreads recovering. We see the economics of MSR only improving as you know, a even on a weekly basis when we look at the the oil prices going forward. So, know, overall, we think it's a temporary temporary measure, but it's certainly been, I think, probably for everybody, even on this call at the other end, it's been taking much longer to to recover than we when we first thought. There's a Jason, wasn't sure there's much more we can say about Utah than we've said. No. I think I I think other than, you know, Utah, you know, the the that Utah deposit is is very large. It's quite homogenous. And there are you know, Greenfield are not the only operator in that particular facility. Obviously, you have and you have others in the sector as well. So if there's an application through sample testing that we know that that can be progressed with other suppliers there as well, that's obviously something that we are looking to progress.

37:37 And, Jason, just on on the bulk, is there anything you want to add there in terms of, you know, who we're continuing to talk to? I can't say who we're talking to, but we are we are in sort of general dialogue with bulk shipping companies still. Again, the the focus at the moment for us is to make sure that we get the bio m sorry, the bio m star trials with MSC underway sooner rather than later. It's difficult to get much bandwidth, you know, within the company on other on other competing trials. And, you know, trials take up a lot of time. The key thing for us is to actually get the approvals, not not necessarily carry out a trial. We don't really need to do a trial on another with another supplier if we can get approval from the OEM in that particular type of engine. So for us, it's really most important to get the MSC trials up and running by the end of this year, which is our target.

38:28 And if I can, there was an answer further down, which was actually if we're consistently showing that MSAL does what it says on the tin, why are we continuing to sort of offer free trials? I'd say, just to pick up that point that Jason has said now, when you start looking at sort of the sort of loaner trials, once you've got that approval on a particular type of engine, that is applicable to anyone who's using that type of engine. So we think, one, that once we've got that over the line, that gives us a very large addressable market. And just to put it in context between them, sort of Mann and Varsila have got over 90 80% market share in the the markets that we're operating in. So it gives us a very large addressable market. I think the other thing is, just to reinforce, these are not free trials. We are charging customers for it. It's not necessarily full cost recovery, but these are not free at the point of use to the customers.

39:23 They've got to put in significant time and effort to do it, and they've got to actually commit significant resources as well as capital to it as well. So just to reiterate to you, these are not free, but it does help focus their mind when there is money, resources, and, you know, engineering commitment that they need to put into these, and that's something that gives us the confidence that these customers want to follow through on this. They're not just doing it to do a trial. They're doing it with a reason in the end, which is to give them access to what they think is gonna be a superior fuel at a lower cost than the alternatives. Jason, I don't know. You know, I think it's it's it's part of our longer term activities, but maybe just a little bit here from the question from Steve regarding algal production of glycerin.

40:16 Yeah. In terms of time scales, you know, we we have a a research project that's that's just recently kicked off with the University of Greenwich and professor Pat Harvey and her team there. That will take the both the best part of this year, you know, but the early the early phase of that is to look at, you know, the commercial viability of of algal production of glycerin. In terms of, you know, the time scales and and when that will be up and running by, it would certainly take well, technology is available today to do that and and actually, this wind and that type of algae is being used to produce other products at some scale. But the scale, you know, the scale of the opportunity for the fuel market is, you know, potentially a lot larger. So that will take a you know, that will definitely take a couple of years to be to be up and running at the earliest.

41:08 And I think that Jason's outlined to you that in parallel with that, we're doing that work on crude glycerin production. So we're not relying on actually producing glycerin through this route to enable us to actually produce at scale in the commercial markets. Next one, Jason, was regarding, is sepsis still a candidate refinery for the MSAR trial? Yeah. And I think we are still speaking with sepsis in terms of as one of the options for supplying MSC for sure in the trial. And another question for me. You know, are our confidence levels still at the nine out of 10 level? Well, I can I'll for myself. Yes. They are, Ian. Yeah. They are, generally. I think the the only issue is for us, as always, is is timing.

41:55 Yeah. But, yeah, I think, you know, overall, in terms of confidence in the business, definitely nine out of 10. And, Jason, I don't know whether you wanna take a a comment just about the owning the data from the trials and our experience with with Maersk on this issue. Yeah. I I think from our perspective, obviously, you know, it's important that we do own the material from from the MSC trials. So that requires in the commitment in terms of providing some level of funding as well, which, you know, we need to we we need to finalize in the the agreements for the next phase. But, yeah, we certainly plan to own the material or have access to the to the the test data for sure where that was previously potentially limited by by Maersk. And, Quentin, you've asked about, given the work we're doing, are we using the R and D tax credit scheme? Absolutely.

42:47 We're very diligent about our use of that scheme. It's given significant income to the business over the years and will continue to do so. And just by the by, we look at opportunities to seek other sources of funding as well as appropriate. Marine and biofuels, what other options are MSC exploring? Are there any serious competitors to bio MSR? Well, you know, there there are other biofuels available today that are being tested. You know, you can see those in the in the news if you sky scour marine biofuels. Think the the difference is that there aren't that many biofuels which are specific to the marine sector. A lot of the biofuel components that have been tested are also, you know, being utilized in the road transportation sector and and aviation.

43:36 So, you know, we we think that we've got something that's that's tailored for the marine sector and very applicable. Jason, I don't know if you want to pick up this question from Jeremy. Just maybe and it's relating to access to refineries and if they need to be producing glycerin for us to be producing bioemsorum. Maybe to talk a bit about the sort of work we're thinking about in terms of looking both at refineries and at at sort of bunker opportunities and terminals and what we might be able to do there as well, Jason, in terms of the the broad spread of options that we're looking at. Yeah. That's quite a quite a good question, Jeremy.

44:22 I guess in terms of what's required to produce bioemstar, you know, we require a heavy residue stream at the moment, and we require a source of crude glycerin, which we then refine. The the scale of the the crude glycerin refining system is sort of modular in size as well. So it's it's quite similar in size, you know, in in terms of the the footprint anyway. It's quite similar to an MSA module. So the possibility to bolt on an MSA bio MSA production module and accrue this in the front column column next door to each other is there. Whether that goes into an ore refinery remains to be seen. It could be potentially done in the terminal. And there's an example of a crude glycerin refining column column that, you know, that that's that's sitting in a bunker hub that we know of at the moment at the scale that we need. So, you know, there are a number of options that are on the table at the moment.

45:21 I wouldn't say there's one size fixes all suits all. You know? And there's a possibility also of not necessarily having to utilize the high the high viscosity residue for for bioemps. So initially, it's to potentially blend in high sulfur fuel or a viscous high sulfur fuel oil stream. So a possibility there's various possibilities of bio M cell production that we're looking at in parallel to try and sort of fast track the production of it and not necessarily mean that we're we're tied up with specific refineries. So the the the key thing would be to suit the shipping routes, we will be focusing on the main bunker hubs. So that's important to know. And, you know, and that's really generally sort of in Europe, the med, obviously, and also in Singapore.

46:11 And on that basis, Sepsa is is an option for the med. You know, they are well placed for Gibraltar. The Gib Straits, as an example, and they have a biorefinery next door. So, you know, that's a that's a possibility. Just in terms of the next one from James c, Jason, I don't know whether you can just say give our response to to that. And that James is asking, is there a possibility that BioEmstar would produce in Utah for our marine trial? It's a it's a possibility. We haven't we certainly haven't ruled that out, James. So that's that is an area that we we could we we are looking at in parallel. I would say that, you know, there may be opportunities nearer nearer home that that may take priority, but that I I wouldn't rule that out.

46:59 So And one here from Marques, which is what project do we believe will come to commercial fruition first, and why and when do we expect this to place take place, and what might the value be? And if if I take a sort of a give you an overview on this, I think based on where we are at the minute, and, again, please take it as what we've already said about time scales here. But the one that's got the opportunity to actually deliver first, we believe, is Utah because once we've got those samples, we can actually carry out the testing. That will give us a really high degree of confidence about whether mSAR is, suitable for use there, then subject to getting access to that site, to carry out the testing, that was going to be carried out well, it was gonna be carried out last year, actually, when we were looking at getting samples, sent over to us last year.

47:56 That's actually something that can be done very, very quickly. And then we could go into a license agreement with the client. And our expectation is we could move very quickly to that. Where would that be in terms of value? That's sort of very high five figures to us. And that could be during H2 twenty twenty one, and that's certainly what we're driving towards. At this stage, I don't want to start going into those other projects because as we've as we started talking about them, they are at their early stages now. But certainly, the next one that could be on the cards there is is Morocco, subject to the two further tests progressing as we expect them to do and then being able to get a suitable candidate refinery to produce the fuel for them. But again, those are things that we would expect by that point in time that the economics about commercial supply into the North African market from the sort of MED will actually be providing us with more opportunities there to look at candidate refineries.

49:05 What we'll do is, though, we've we've already, in terms of how we've outlined things in the past, tried to give you a good outline as to what our other projects are capable of delivering. And we'll just make sure that when we answer the questions on the platform that we make reference to the relevant slides that we've delivered, I think, earlier this year on that. Question about Norway. How did that come about from Morocco? In terms of Norway, that came about because we were looking at essentially toll manufacture of fuel at a bitumen terminal that that might be up operate up and running and operational. It just so happens that our our equipment supplier for MSO production is based in Denmark.

49:55 So there and there was a possibility of doing some of them doing some work there anyway that that fitted very well with that particular bitumen terminal. So that's how Norway came about. We need about 60 tons of fuel for the first trial in Morocco on-site b. So there was a there a pretty good fit there. We we had to wait a little bit longer for them to be up and running and operational for the bitumen market, but that's that's progressing well now. So the intention is certainly a few will be available for the for the q three trial from that particular location. Going forward, what does that mean? You know, we'll be supplying Morocco from Norway for the commercial volumes, and that that won't be the case. You know? And even for the next trial, we're looking to do at the moment at QRF is we've we've purchased a smaller scale m cell manufacturing unit, which is bigger than our lab mills, but smaller than our conventional plant, and we can utilize that for sort of trial trial manufacture of that sort sort of of scale of volumes now, certainly sort of, you know, around the 20 tons. That that will fit very nicely with the the site b trial.

51:05 Sorry. Site a trial, rather. If I just pick up, Adam, so you've said recent RNS, MSR outlook section, found it worrying, particularly given what what you've put as vague language used. Please clarify what we mean by certain markets and what do we mean by headwinds. And, you know, be specific, it matters, right? I think we've already covered this off, Adam. But actually, to be clear, what we mean by headwinds is these confluence of issues relating to both IMO 20 twenty and COVID-nineteen, a significant reduction in demand for distillates, meaning that that spread that's historically been there is not there in certain markets at the minute, though that is recovering.

51:54 And what that specifically meant was that certain refineries fundamentally may change the way that we're producing heavy fuel oil. So instead of actually running these units to sort of basically do hard work on the residue to actually create more higher value distillate products, Or why the hell do you bother doing that when those distillate products aren't higher value anymore? You don't do it. So what we found is that despite what the nameplate might say on that refinery, the way they're operating it at the minute means that you can't add much value through the use of MSAR. So I hope we've been very clear on that. It is, though, only specific markets. It is impacting some of those refiners in the Mediterranean. You said specifically, CEPSA said no. CEPSA have not said no.

52:40 We're continuing to look at a number of candidate refineries. Jason, if I just very briefly pick up this one from Marcus about the JDA with MSC, but then ask you to give a little bit more of the detail that I think, again, what we said is we expect those initial activities to take around three months. We're now six months on, so how can we say we're still on track? And I think what we're saying is that some of the work that we expected to be done during this period of time has been done. Some of those activities which will are going to take us into the next stage of the formal agreements for the trial and the agreement between ourselves, MSC and Refiner have taken a little bit longer, but that does not mean that we cannot still meet the overall timetable for getting fuel onboard ships and those ships to be sailing using, in this instance now, BioEnsar by the end of this year, very early next year.

53:46 I think you're right, Mike. And I think to to dismiss COVID, the impact of COVID, you know, sounds an easy excuse for us, but the reality is that's definitely been that's definitely been has impacted the availability of resources in the sector. You know, shipping companies have had many different issues to deal with during the period as of the OEMs in terms of, you know, this pace of the decarbonization has really taken up a lot of, you know, brainpower in terms of, you know, how how various fuels can be deployed in the in that particular sector. So, you know, the that has been quite challenging to get things on track. That certainly, you know, that wasn't part of our original planning process, which we put together together with MSC. So, you know, it's I think it surprised people on both sides. And there's a question here from James saying, given it takes a minimum of six to nine months to install and commission an MMU, how can we still be targeting the mid twenty twenty two loaner completion when we're behind schedule.

54:46 Again, I think we've answered this, but I guess there are a couple of things just to clarify. Obviously, we've actually got the MMU that we can actually use, so you can actually take quite a bit of lead time out of that. And I think as Jason has outlined, we're talking to a numb we're looking at a number of options. It's not just refinery. It's potentially terminal production that significantly reduces the sort of time taken to install and commission, etcetera. So we wouldn't be saying this if we didn't think it was true. Is it challenging? Absolutely, it is. But do we think we can deliver it? Yes, we can. James, I think we've already confirmed we haven't got a specific refinery. We're still actually looking at a number of these.

55:37 And as soon as we've got them in a position to enable that part of the work to carry ahead to go out, we will be updating the market through an RNS to demonstrate that we've reached that agreement between a refinery and ourselves and MSC or a terminal operator ourselves and MSC. There's a question further down from William. Lot of talk about bio MSAR, but almost nothing about MSAR, especially with regarding MSC. Will MSC be going ahead with the MSAR trial? That's certainly still the case, William. It's just that m the bio MSAR has taken a priority because there's lots of obviously, the sector is is prioritizing, you know, the use of sort of lower carbon fuels, you know, in terms of bringing those to market sooner rather than later. So that's really brought forward the the bio MSAAR testing. But there's definitely still a requirement for for MSAAR to reduce the cost of their sort of high sulfur fuel opportunity. And and also potentially low sulfur as well, you know, where there there's potential to supply low sulfur material from from Utah, which sort of it doesn't quite answer Helen's question about the MMU. Once the MMU is on-site in Utah, what's the likelihood to continue operation?

57:00 You know, some of that is then contingent on finding an end consumer of the sort of the low sulfur material from Utah. And obviously, the marine sector is is one such opportunity. You know, we we'll be taking a very, good look at the samples that we get, whether we receive during the coming months from or month from from Utah to see look at views of applicability for the marine sector and also for, obviously, for MSI and bio MSI production. I think there's a question from MTS. I think we've already answered this, MTS, in terms of we are engaged with other shipping companies. We are very focused on ensuring that we can deliver the MSC trial, and we will be looking to provide updates as regularly as we can across the piece.

57:50 And we realize that we didn't do that during the course of the last three months or so, so we are acutely aware that the more that we can do that, the better position we're in. And that's gonna be through both the use of social media, but obviously, if there's anything material, that will always be coming out through RNS so that all shareholders are made aware of that at the same time. Again, Marcus, I think we've probably answered this question that we're continuing to look at refiners for the production of fuel for Morocco. And again, we will provide updates as we go through the course of this year. Jeremy, you've made a comment regarding sustainable revenues now from the end of twenty twenty two.

58:40 I think what we actually said was during sort of h two twenty twenty two. We do expect that revenue to be coming through across the projects that we've outlined here. I think at this stage, we don't want to disclose what the particular revenues will be from the supply of MSAR and bio MSAR to MSC for those trials, partly for commercial reasons, but partly because we're in the middle of having those discussions with MSC at the moment. And I'd rather those discussions, take place behind closed doors rather than through an open environment like this. Jess, I don't know whether you want to maybe very briefly pick up on this one from Marcus about about Maersk, and I'll pick up the the second part of the question.

59:33 Yeah. I I can't really comment on on on Merk other than to say that, you know, we are still in discussions with Merk on a on a regular basis despite publicly what they may say with regards to transitional fuels. That's still part of their of their their decarbonization platform in the near term for sure. And they, you know, are utilizing biofuel today in certain cases. So, you know, we know that's the case. And, you know, is BioEmSAR beyond the scope of any commercial agreements? No. Not potentially. No. If BioEmSAR is, you know, if BioEmSAR works as build for MSC, then there's a there's scope and possibility for supply to some of the other players in the sector, including Maersk.

1:00:24 And to come back directly on your question, what do we think in terms of our existing agreements with Maersk? Our view is that there is nothing to that would be relevant for us to be paying to them because we regard those those agreements as as not in place anymore. I'm not sure there's much we can say, Helen, in terms of the two marine engineers on the MSC project other than these are experienced people from industry who've worked alongside us in the past, and they're gonna help to smooth the path to delivery of that MSC project on those, you know, tight timetables that we've outlined to you.

1:01:09 Yep. Definitely a future benefit for, you know, some of the four stroke engine applications as well. One's an expert in two strokes, one's an expert, I guess, in in four stroke applications. So very, very useful for for the company. And, Mark, I think we've answered a lot of your question here against in terms of MERS, but I think probably the only thing to add here that because you've had specifically, they be conducted largely within the ecozones or outside, which might hasten the trial duration? As these are going to be taking place on board vessels with scrubbers, it doesn't really matter where they're going to be operating. And that's one of the things that we've got the confidence about that, they're using scrubbers so they can operate on the fuel that they are using throughout the course of their, steaming. So that's why we've got that confidence that we can actually get those trials delivered in that relatively short timetable.

1:02:09 Christine, you said have we gone from having all our eggs in one basket to spreading ourselves too thinly? I think to give you a very clear answer, we don't believe that's the case. We've now got a number of projects that we're looking at. There's no doubt, they are challenging to manage for us, but, actually, they're well within our capabilities. And, once we start getting back to being able to operate more normally and also undertake our business development activities more normally, we will be looking as appropriate to backfill some particular roles to free up, particularly Jason and Mark, to undertake more business development activities as well. But to be very clear, we we do not believe at all that we are spread too thin at the moment.

1:02:58 Is there the question by Philip about the commerciality of BioEmSAR versus versus EmSAR? I mean, the the two products are not really in competition with each other. Yeah. EmSAR is in competition with with conventional fuel oils, high sulfur and low sulfur. And Bio MSAL is in competition with biofuels. So the way that we we view and present the competitiveness of of both products compared to conventional products is we look at the the, you know, the the cost per unit energy to the client on a delivered basis. And that's demonstrably demonstrably cheaper for both fuels compared with the with the alternatives. You know, we've done some recent economics on bio MSAR as well to compare that bio MSAR versus biofuels from different sources, both from from HVO, sort of hydrogenated or hydrotreated vegetable oil, but also from from flame as well.

1:03:56 And, you know, energy is much cheaper, and those savings become even higher as as you look for further CO two reductions. I think we've already picked up Marcus' question about the other opportunities in Utah. I think, as Jason said, there are a number it's a very large basin. There are a number of operators, and we see the potential for us to be working with a number of operators there. And, again, I think this question from Alastair w, Jason, I don't know whether it's just worthwhile just picking up one particular point, but on that one. But before I do that, while you're thinking about that, if I can pick up one from Marcus in regard to K KSA and Kuwait.

1:04:45 You know, have they dropped off the radar completely? No, they haven't. Are they things that we are really actively engaged in? No. And I think what I tried to outline at the beginning of the presentation and just as we got into Q and A is that we really think fundamentally, despite what they say in those markets, they are large consumers, particularly the KSA, and they're now even larger consumers of heavy fuel oil for power generation and actually water purification purposes. That really hasn't fundamentally changed. So we will still be looking at those marketplaces, but we think it's a much easier discussion for us to have when we've actually demonstrated commercial success of MSAA in either the marine, the industrial or the upstream market.

1:05:32 And we will be very, very clearly readdressing those significant stakeholders in those marketplaces. We have kept sort of informal contact going, but in terms of really active engagement, that will follow on from commercial success on the existing trials. Helen, I think we've, at what point would we be updated on the MSC trial and how likely are we to get a refiner on board? In in essence, those two things go hand in hand. We know we've got to get a refiner or a terminal on board. We're working really hard to do that. As soon as we've got any material updates, Helen, we will provide those to you. We're very clear about the timetable that we've outlined, so we realize that there isn't necessarily a huge amount of time for us here, but we also know that we can actually concertina a lot of this work down a lot more aggressively than we've done in the past, if everyone plays ball along that. So we will update you as soon as possible, and that will include all the relevant details regarding where we're going to be producing fuel, who it's going to be with, and then what the final timelines are for the trials.

1:06:59 The one from Adam c, Jason. I don't know whether you just want to pick up about, you know, why sort of about Petumina and Utah. Yes. Well, certainly, Utah and potentially, Petumina do offer a nonrefundary based source of of MSAR. I would say Petumina are more focused on the the on the bitumen market, But Utah certainly offers an opportunity, you know, essentially a natural bitumen or asphalt material that could be utilized for MSI production. So that that that does take away the, you know, the requirement or the limitations that there may be in certain parts of the of the world in terms of refineries at the moment.

1:07:46 In terms of there there's a question further down in terms of is bitumen a commercially viable feedstock for commercial? I'd say yes and no. Bitumen, there's lots of different grades of bitumen. I would say that there's certain natural bitumen applications like in Utah and other parts of the world where it does make sense because of the cost of extraction and shipping and requirement for dilution. But in terms of bitumen as it may be purchased from a refinery, that material has been further processed and oxidized, and that that is not necessarily a material that we would consider. Normally, to make bitumen, you take a refinery residue and and then you further treat it to to make the bitumen grade. So we we are taking that intermediate material in the refinery. That's the whole purpose of the MSAR process in the refinery is to take that material before it's further up you know, further upgraded.

1:08:45 Just in terms of, you know, Adam, you've asked the fuel that's been produced in Norway, why haven't we used bitumen? Well, again, in this instance, we were looking for specifically a relatively small volume of, fuel to be produced for the trial. We've been doing this through not just directly, but through our partners at, at one of the suppliers of our, MMUs. And it was then a that was already a fallback position from hopefully being able to produce it in The UK, and that wasn't possible because of COVID. So, you know, we're seeing this as a short term solution, not something we'll be looking to do in the longer term. And just, Alastair, you've asked Alastair w, you've asked about we've we've added some engineering personnel.

1:09:33 What about bringing in some sort of technical business development personnel to explore and develop sales opportunities? I'd say in terms of our sales and business development capabilities, Jason is is probably is is our most important asset there as is is Mark as well, our chief operating officer. And, actually, we see the key thing is not actually bringing in new people to try and do those roles, but actually freeing up Jason and Mark to do more of that. Partly, that will come about because of the natural opening up of COVID restrictions, but partly, it will be through backfilling some of the roles so that they can offload some of the work to colleagues within within the department, particularly once we've got a number of these operational and moving towards operations.

1:10:22 They can then start freeing up their work to actually start looking at business development again on a a very active basis. There was a question further down with David from David g. With regards to Morocco, are we know, which one I've got? Sorry. I've two from David three from David g. Pardon me. One further down is basically asking whether whether the factory owners would would are there anyone who work with bio MSAR as opposed to MSAR? That's not the case. You know, the intention certainly is for that to be an MSR project going forward. You know, in the future, obviously, bioemstar is is in scope as well, but at the at the moment, the focus is is certainly on the use of of MSR for that particular project.

1:11:16 David g, you've just asked, you know, regarding the Morocco trials, given the fact that you've been able to visit the site recently, why does the trial require further easing of COVID restrictions, and why are UK restrictions relevant? I guess there are there are a couple of things there. It is relevant because we're UK based, and our people have got to go out. So it's not just a matter of them going out there when Bernard comes back from site. He's got to self isolate for six days, which means he's not available to us in the normal way. So we've got to be taking those sorts of things into account. And, also, we're producing the the fuel over in Norway, and that has has got significant sort of issues in relation to us or actually our partners from Denmark being able to go out and undertake that work because of COVID restrictions.

1:12:04 But having said that, the fact that Bernard's been out there is clearly a key moment for us, and we're great. We're really delighted that he's being able to undertake the work that he did there. And we will be in a position to actually get the equipment out there and undertake that trial as soon as those fuel is produced for us in Norway. The question at the bottom from Miles M actually. Do we see the marine industry as the largest market for bio MSO? Are there many marine companies now actively approaching on the back of the MSC JDA? That's yeah. We certainly have had dialogue with a number of different marine companies on the back of the the MSC JDA. I think as we certainly as we progress, you know, the bio M cell, that's with no objection trials with with MSC as well, you know, announced developments in that regard, then that that will certainly, you know, continue that interest, especially in in bio MSAL.

1:13:04 And we do see the marine market, to answer the question properly that you asked. First of all, you know, we certainly do see the marine market as the largest market potentially in the future for bio MSOAR. Primarily at the moment, that's driven though by, I guess, some of the in the container sector, some of the clients that are, you know, putting pressure on the container companies to to decarbonize. Ideally, to to stimulate the the use of biofuels in the marine sector, you know, if you look at how that's been done in other sectors, that's been done through regulation and or incentives, and that hasn't happened as yet in the marine sector. So that's an area where we know we expect that further changes will imminent that will then hopefully stimulate and drive, the demand for biofuels, which are more expensive than conventional fuels for sure.

1:13:58 Ian, you've just asked a question regarding Utah, QRF testing, MMU shipment, installation, commissioning timeline. And I think, you know, all we can say is because all we've ever said to shareholders is details of timelines that have been provided to us by greenfield or the relevant joint the relevant parties that make up that joint venture between Tomco and Valkor. What we are doing is we're expecting those samples. We know they've been taken. And to answer a question from Nicholas, we've got three drums of, three drums of samples, three barrels of samples. Timeline as to when those come into The UK, that depends whether it's air freighted or not. We're still waiting for confirmation of that. What we have, I think consistently said is once we get those in, expect to be able to do the testing activities on both MSAR and bio MSAR within around three weeks.

1:14:55 As to what the timetable then is for us getting the equipment out onto site, That is absolutely up to, at this stage, Greenfield because as we've outlined to you, that equipment was ready to go from very early calendar 2020, and in fact, sort of 2021. And, you know, a lot of the work was actually carried out during the very final end of of q four twenty twenty. So we've had that equipment available to go out there. We've been waiting for the counterparty to actually ask us to get it out there. So I don't think it's relevant for us to give you any more updates on the timelines there until we've got some clarity out of what is gonna be happening there. And, again, I think just to reiterate what those companies have said publicly is they the license on that site, I think, officially ends today. They're looking to get a extension for a further six months. But, again, that is gonna be up to that particular client as to what happens then and when they will call for those that equipment to be sent out to undertake those tests.

1:16:07 There's a question further down from e and b. Can Utah ten API synthesize bitumen produced from the the core process be emulsified into power, and, I think he probably buy himself from transportation of bitumen and waxing crews to refinery. Certainly, intention the the intention for the testing that we're planning to do in in the coming month on that material is to demonstrate that the MSAR and bio MSAR process and and formulations are applicable to that type of material. In terms of making it that a material that that that would go to a refinery, I think we believe that there are higher value outlets that may be available than just sending to refinery and getting a a WTA WTI related price or discount, we think that we can get a higher value for that material, which is the intention between the, you know, deploying the MSAR technology.

1:17:08 Ian, you've Ian B, you've asked a question about the VOLCILLA VTT test. I think we said in the the RNS we expect those results sort of during the course of of July. We haven't received an exact summary, but we did receive sort of anecdotal feedback, and that feedback was positive. But I don't think it's appropriate for us to say anything more until we actually get that, report back, and then we will provide an update to shareholders on the back of that report. Paul, you've asked, you know, have MSC indicated if the interim loaner inspections are positive, they'd start to roll out sooner? We're at the stage of having those sorts of discussions with MSC at the moment. So it's actually too early to to sort of talk specifically about that, but I would want you to be, you know, confident that that's certainly something that we are, you know, hoping to progress with the client that you don't wait until the end of it when you actually get the vast majority of the information comes out at that interim inspection stage. That's certainly our anticipated approach, but we have to work with the client to ensure that they're aligned to that as well.

1:18:29 And the the question near the bottom, Jason, from GMC, just about MSAL production at the current POSP site. I don't know whether there's anything we can say usefully on that or not. Not at the moment. I I think it depends a little bit on what the specification of that materials is in in a lot of detail. So we've you know, we need to properly analyze and assay that material. We've not got that level of detail yet to see the applicability for the marine and power sector. We certainly believe it will be applicable to the marine sector until we do the that work. You know, we need to identify the suitability of that material both for our our end internal purposes and then also for, you know, in terms of end users as well.

1:19:15 But we certainly believe there is an opportunity in the marine sector and the potential link up with MSC. Well, if you We lost Mike. So, Jason, just just come back in there. I know we are just gone. I know I know that we we have put this meeting for an hour and a half weeks coming up to that point. So and you have been answering a lot of questions. We'll just wait for Mike to come back in. Ladies and gentlemen, it would just take a couple of seconds. I can answer a few more in the meantime. Great. Thank you very much. A question from Garris c. I calculate in order to achieve a meet low of four thousand hours in a six month trial.

1:20:06 That require an average of twenty two hours steaming per day. Is this practical? It it depends a a bit on the vessel, Gareth. You know, some of the vessels are operating a lot more continuously than others. The vessels that that we are targeting or certainly have targeted to use from some of the locations, they're on Transatlantic routes, so they are actually operating quite of nearly continuously. You know, that, yes, there is some downtime during steaming. Is it exactly six months? No. It might be seven. You know, when do we get started? You know, do we get started at the end of the year sooner or sooner or later? All of these things we're looking to to finalize now. So the exact timing, you know, it's hard to get it down to the nearest week or week or month at this moment in time, but that's the typical time for decisions to be made. I think as we indicated with MERSC with the MERSC trial as well, at the midway phase, that's that gives you a good indication of, you know, of how the fuel's performing such that you may not need to have a full loaner in place before you start looking at the commercial rollout of the fleet. So that's that's that's an area where, you know, it's hard to define at this stage until we have, you know, we have those those commercial discussions with MSC in the, you know, the coming months.

1:21:26 I there was there are a couple of questions, one from Jason t and an associated one from Paul t, and really it's around expectation management, I think, and also communication with shareholders. So I guess a couple of things. Look. If you know, I think we've gotta take it on the chin if we've not delivered against your expectations in terms of where we are on these things. And, you know, absolutely, did we provide the updates that we'd hoped to during the last couple of months? No. We didn't. We are looking at how we can go about providing more regular updates. Ideally, that would be, if we can manage it through non RNS means. We're in the unusual position, though, that a lot of things that for a company that had got significant revenues would be just ordinary course of business.

1:22:22 There's actually, for us, some seemingly quite small things are potentially price sensitive. So we're always up against this issue of do we have to put something out via RNS, or can we use sort of social media, etcetera? We will get better at this. Apologies from myself because, primarily, I'm leading on on this area. So I do absolutely hear what you've got to say. We will ensure that we put a lot more effort into providing more regular updates as we go through. That is going to be a mixture of RNS. It's gonna be a mixture of social media. And where we can, it might well be appropriate to just say, we'll have an investor meet presentation, and use that just as q and a rather than to give anything, sort of, by way of a formal update, but just so that we can talk to you anecdotally about what's going on into the marketplace.

1:23:20 And perhaps that would be quite a nice thing to hear feedback from you on at the end of this meeting today, whether that that type of event might well be helpful from your point of view. And if so, we'll see what we can do about delivering something like that. Right, Jason, I am just conscious of time as we are coming through. Obviously, you've got an awful lot of questions you've answered already, but just if there were any further questions you'd like to address before we perhaps get some feedback for you. Yeah. I think if we look at the the very last one, Jason, from James c, and, again, this is this, you know, ultimate thing if and it's James c asked, if MS can commit to using MSAR, does that help refiners decide whether to get on board as a supplier?

1:24:08 Absolutely. You know, we we've always got this issue of for MSAR or bio MSAR, it is about having a long term supply agreement. Refiners get interested when they know they've got a client that can actually supply them in the that wants to be supplied in the longer term. And vice versa, you can have a really good discussion with a commercial client about supply to them when they know there's a refinery willing to produce it. So those two do go hand in hand for both MSAR and BioMSAR. That's great. Thank you very much indeed. I would, of course, like to remind everyone that the team will review all the questions that are submitted today, we'll publish those back out on the platform once they've had a chance to run through them. Mike, perhaps if I could just ask you just for a few final words to wrap up and then we'll redirect the attendees to give you some feedback, please. Yeah. Well, thank you very much, everyone.

1:25:01 Thank you for asking so many questions. We try our best to get them out. You're the only audience I know that actually answers more question asks more questions than my two year old boy does every day. So thank you very much. We do try and respond to each and every one of them. You're always asking, I think, really good questions. Some of those are directed at and challenging of us, and that's absolutely right. You're our shareholders. You own the company. We're always doing our best to actually address them during the course of this. We think these are are great routes for us to have a regular dialogue and communication with you, but we are looking forward to being able to meet you face to face at our AGM later this year as well. So thank you very much for taking the time, everyone. Have a lovely afternoon and the rest of the evening.

1:25:48 Thank you. That's great. Yeah. Mike, Jason, thanks indeed for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close the session? It should be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the management team could better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete and is greatly valued by the team. On behalf of the management team of QUADRISE Fuels International PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's session.