Postnl (Euronext:PNL) Q3 2026 Earnings Call

0:00 Good morning ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the PostNL Trading Update Q3 2026 results call. At this moment all participants are in a listen only mode and after the presentation there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Now I would like to hand the conference over to Miss Inge Laudy, Manager Investor Relations. Please go ahead madam. Thank you operator and welcome to you all.

0:31 We have published our Q3 trading update this morning and with me in the room today are Linde Jansen our CFO and also Pim Berendsen CEO. Linde will guide you through a short presentation and then both Pim and Linde will take your questions. Please go ahead Linde. Thank you, Inge. Let's start with the highlights of the third quarter of 2026. I will then give you more color on the main volume and revenue developments per segment. Please note that like in quarter one, this is a trading update. So we will explain on strategic progress and the drivers behind volume and revenue.

1:16 No EBIT or free cash flow will be disclosed. Overall our revenue came in at 768 million compared to 762 million in the previous quarter last year. So a slight increase despite the challenging market conditions. Although we will not quantify normalized EBIT and free cash flow for this quarter, I can mention you that normalized EBIT developed in line with our expectations and followed the usual seasonal pattern. For free cash flow, we see a favorable development that is supported by our proactive working capital management. Our disciplined strategy execution supports this performance and free cash flow development in challenging market conditions.

2:09 With that, we confirm our outlook for 2026 and the free cash flow to come in at zero for the full year, at around zero for the full year. On execution, we successfully implemented the standard mail delivery framework of within two business days, or how we say it D plus two. Our other main strategic initiatives are progressing according to plan. We continue to deliver on our cost savings plans and are agile in adapting capacity to the volume developments. These measures continue to support our performance. Let me now take you through the progress in our businesses and the external development that affect us.

2:59 In the quarter we again made tangible progress on our strategy while external challenges continued. The geopolitical uncertainty is still there. Furthermore, in July, the new customs regulations for import outside the EU came into force and that impacts the e-commerce. Large agent webshops are adjusting their commercial propositions and logistics processes. This is resulting in shifts in market positions and a strong decline in market volumes. We also see new low-cost entrants in the e-commerce chain. For the e-commerce segment, we continue to execute our volume to value strategy.

3:49 We are sharpening our customer segmentation and differentiating our propositions, with a disciplined approach to volume steering. Our targeted yield measures continue to gain traction, as demonstrated by the increase in the average price per parcel. We also see an improving trend in domestic volume development quarter over quarter. We will look at these drivers in more detail when I will discuss the segment figures. At platforms, our strategy remains to accelerate international growth through the asset-light models of Spring and MyParcel, which we see materialising in strong growth in our European e-commerce activities.

4:39 So, we continue to make progress on the priorities we set out earlier this year, focusing on what we can control. Let me now turn to mail on slide 5 and our commitment to securing a sustainable postal service. As we explained before, a long-term viable postal service requires a delivery framework of within three business days, as well as compensation for the net USO costs in the transitional years. The D plus 3 framework also means no delivery on Saturday. Clear and timely political decisions to amend the Postal Act remain crucial.

5:26 As these decisions have been delayed again, this has a direct consequence for the implementation timetable of D plus 3. The transition of this scale requires one year of careful preparation. We are therefore forced to postpone the implementation to 2028. As a consequence, we have filed our application for net cost compensation for 2027, an amount of 80 million euros. This brings the total amount requested for 2025 to 2027 to 148 million. These are requests for compensation, with legal proceedings for 2025 and 2026 still in progress.

6:13 The legal proceedings concerning the withdrawal of our current USO designation also continues. But our commitment remains unchanged, securing a sustainable postal service. To achieve that, the necessary regulatory changes and compensation for the transitional years remain essential. Let's move to slide 6. This slide provides an overview of the key reported figures per segment. As mentioned in the beginning, volume and revenue are the metrics that we disclose and explain in this trading update.

6:59 In short, for the group as a total, we saw a slight increase in revenue in a challenging market environment. But let's have a closer look per segment. and I will start with e-commerce. At e-commerce we see the transition from volume to value gaining traction. Domestic volumes are stabilizing and average price per parcel is up around 7%. The revenue amounted to 478 million compared to 466 million last year. with overall volumes up 2.4%, which includes the transfer of the D plus 1 letterbox parcels.

7:45 Excluding these letterbox parcels, we report an overall volume decline of 7.1%. This overall volume impact can be split in domestic and international. Starting with domestic volumes, we see the good news that domestic volumes were broadly flat compared to last year and are showing an improving trend quarter over quarter. This reflects market developments and a limited loss in market share as anticipated following our targeted yield measures. Looking at the international volumes, mainly from Asian webshops, they were down almost 32%, predominantly explained by the new customs regulations that came into force in July.

8:41 Higher prices due to targeted yield measures and fuel surcharge, which amounted to around 5 million, resulted in an 18 million step-up in revenue compared to last year. In line with our expectation, the mixed effect is negative. And that is almost fully explained by the D plus one letterbox parcels that are now being delivered in our e-commerce infrastructure instead of via mail. At the same time, a mixed effect between domestic and international was positive due to lower Asian volumes. And that together brings our revenue to 478 million. in this quarter.

9:30 Let's move to platforms on slide 8. Revenue was down to 173 million compared to 188 million in the same quarter last year, with volumes down 13.1%. This 13% volume decline has two angles. On the one hand, we see our European volumes up again, growing by over 40%. This is in line with our strategy to expand our intra-European businesses. On the other hand, as already explained at the e-commerce segment, volumes from Asian webshops showed a sharp decline, falling almost 50% in the quarter, due to the customs regulation introduced in July.

10:22 For price-mix effect, also at platforms, prices increased and were supported by a small favorable mix effect. The other revenue showed a slight decline. And then the last segment, mail, on slide 9. Revenue was broadly in line with last year, mainly explained by the impact from volume development and tariff increases. Adjusted for election mail, the volume decline was 3%, bringing the year-to-date structural decline to minus 6.3%. This was more than offset by a positive price mix effect, mainly driven by pricing coming from higher stamp prices as well as higher tariffs for our business meal.

11:18 Stamp prices were up almost 7% as of the 1st of January of this year. Finally, good to note that we recently announced that we have been granted the largest lot in the government mail tender, effective 1 January 2027.

11:37 With that, we secure over 200 million items annually at improved commercial terms. Let me now turn to our outlook for the full year 2026, which, as said before, we confirm today. For normalized EBIT, we continue to expect between 40 and 70 million. For free cash flow, we now expect to come in at around zero. Our proactive working capital management supports this favorable development. Let me take you briefly through some of the assumptions underlying that outlook, which we published in February of this year. being a revenue growth of between five to seven percent and we continue to invest in our strategic focus areas with capex expected to be around 125 million.

12:34 Lease payments remain unchanged at around 100 million. Organic cost increases remain high at around 140 million with price increases to expect to be more than offset these cost increases. At the same time we maintain a strong focus on cost control and further efficiency improvements. The current impact of the customs regulations introduced on the 1st of July does not change our outlook for 2026. However, the scope and timing of these regulations could further evolve over time and potentially affect future performance. It also brings opportunities, as we are well positioned to benefit from a recovery as the market adjusts to the new reality.

13:27 Furthermore, our outlook excludes the risk that prolonged geopolitical uncertainty may increase inflationary pressure and affect consumer spending. So we confirm our full-year outlook with a favourable free cash flow development supported by our continuous focus on working capital. Let me conclude this presentation on slide 11. I repeat that we will continue our focus on disciplined execution in a challenging environment. We have shown that we can adapt our operations to volume developments and we are ready for the upcoming peak season. In e-commerce our volume to value strategy is delivering higher yields and we see an improving trend in domestic volume development.

14:21 At platforms we see strong growth in European e-commerce while adapting to the impact of the customs regulations. For mail, we have successfully implemented D plus 2 and quality is improving. This is an important first step. Political decisions remain necessary to enable the transition towards a future proof and financially viable postal service. Against this background, we remain confident in delivering our full year 2026

14:56 outlook with a favourable free cash flow development. Thank you very much and now I'm handing over to Inge. Thank you, Linde, for the explanation. We now take your questions. Operator, can you please explain the procedure and open the lines, please? Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you wish to ask a question, you will need to press star 1 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 1 1 again.

15:33 We will take our first question. And your question comes from the line of Michiel de Klerk from KBC Securities. Please go ahead, your line is open. Yes, hi, and thank you for taking my questions. I have two, please. The first one would be on the political delays and the shift to D plus 3 as from 2028. So, Now you apply for a compensation of 80 million. If I compare that a bit to 2026, which was 38 million, I believe, that's a step up of more than 40 million. You will not be able to implement these measures or these cost saving measures yet. So I would assume there's a big increase in your cost base next year. I'm just wondering how you will be planning to offset this.

16:28 the additional 40 plus million so that would be the first question and the second one would be a bit on the outlook so you reiterated

16:39 the normalized EBIT outlook and you say that you remain on track now if I look a bit at the volume impact from the new EU regulations seems to be quite a big impact on the volumes I'm just wondering what is upsetting here the The volume pressures or where are the positive pockets of offsetting the international decline, especially also given that in November there will be an additional charge. And also in your guidance, you mentioned that, okay, in the future there

17:11 might be an impact depending on the scope and the timing. Can you be a bit more concrete on what is assumed here or how do you expect this situation to evolve in the coming quarters?

17:26 Yes, thank you Michiel. Let me start with your first question on Dplus3. It's indeed correct, so last week we submitted the net cost compensation of 80 million. And let me start by explaining a bit on the amount, so you are comparing it with 2025 slash 2026. To start with, the reason that it is higher than the 25 and 26 amounts is first of all because underlying of course we see the continued USO mail volumes decline so your cost base and we have to fix call space with our people is then allocated to even further lower volumes, realizing that our USO volumes decline even faster than the other volumes.

18:32 So that gets exponentially. And secondly, what you do in a net cost compensation, it's a very decent methodology what you do to calculate that net cost compensation. So it's a counterfactual calculation. and in that calculation it is key that we assumed that we otherwise could have implemented D plus 3 in the year 2027, which is now not the case.

19:07 and therefore you assume those costs to be the net costs for not having a solution for the postal law delays. As also mentioned during our capital markets day, left or right, we will try to get that compensation. So either via the adjustments of the law, either via requesting this net cost compensation. So that are the factors for that net cost compensation.

19:51 Then on your second question on the outlook. Well, as you say, so we indeed see the impact from the Asian volumes. However, there are a few things to note. As you have also seen in our half year results where we showed and disclosed our normalized EBIT, we are on track for our cost savings and also adapting our

20:23 Our capacity and costs related to that to the volume development. We are very agile and disciplined in doing that and that is also what we have continued in this quarter. In addition, of course, Q4 is our key quarter, which is an important part of our overall performance. And with the developments which we see quarter over quarter

20:54 in domestic, which is the vast majority of our volumes in e-commerce, we see a very positive trend. and that also contributes to that outlook reconfirmance. So it's a combination of the different factors underlying it and of course it is not just e-commerce, it are all the different segments with our European e-commerce growth at platforms.

21:25 So all is contributing that in combination with a very agile cost adaption in our operation to adapt to the volume fluctuations. And obviously good to remind a very positive development on free cash flow.

21:45 Thank you very much for that. Thank you. We will take our next question. Your question comes from Marco Limit from Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I've got a few. So the first one is on the D plus 3 in 2028. So if I look at the CMD slide back in 25, the plan has always been to switch to D plus 3 by 2028. So the question is, What has changed now versus your previous expectations? And what do you need in order to switch to D plus 3? So what are we waiting for in terms of approvals? That will be the first question. Second question is on your guidance, where you are still guiding for revenues up 5% to 7% every year, but in the first three quarters revenues are sort of flattish.

22:45 Just wondering whether there is anything we're missing there or that bit of guidance doesn't apply anymore. And then a third question on the mail volume decline in Q3, which was only 3%, much below the historical run rate of, let's

23:05 say, 8 to 10%. What is driving that? Is there any one-off in Q3 mail volumes?

23:12 and if I can speak for one, I apologize for the many questions, but also on fuel, any comment there? Do you think that you have been able to fully pass through the higher fuel costs during Q3 or there is any profitability headwind from higher fuel? Thank you. Yes. Let me start with your first question on D plus three. It's correct indeed that you add that in our capital markets day we already assumed D plus 3 to be implemented in in 2028 and then after that our capital markets day developments came in on the postal law towards implementation of Dplus2 per the 1st of July this year and with the intention to have the Dplus3 per the 1st of July in 2027.

24:17 However, to really implement it for the first of July 2027, the D plus 3 framework, the postal law really needs to be changed and we are not yet, the government has not yet taken the decisions and the steps to have that on time to really implement that for the first

24:41 of July 2027. And also, as explained during the presentation, given the size of this transition, we need a year to prepare this change. And as we still don't have that certainty from the government and the changes have not been adjusted specifically on the Saturday delivery, we cannot implement it for the 1st of July 2027 and are forced to postpone it to 2028. but maybe Pim you want to add? Maybe one addition because let's say based on also the question of Michiel and from yourself Marco we really need to make a clear distinction between what is our breakthrough plan and what is net cost and net cost is actually a counterfactual comparison where you compare what is your actual cost related to the distribution What would have been your network setup if you were not stuck with this obligation and the cost difference between those two where you also include positive elements is called the net cost. So that has nothing to do with actual developments of the cost base from 26 to 27 where it's really about the comparison how would

26:11 the network look like without the obligation of the universal service as it stands so then only based on what Your customers would demand you to do. How would you then set up the network?

26:27 That is your counterfactual and you compare the actual cost to that counterfactual and that drives the net cost. So in this 2027 net cost request, the actual is a D plus 2 network. The counterfactual is that we, if not having this obligation, we would already have a D plus 3 model for 2027 given the fact that we've made the change to D plus 2 already this year. That drives the delta of net costs from 26 to 27. Okay, thanks Pim. Then moving to your second question on your outlook in relation to the revenues.

27:20 Indeed, so today we reconfirm our outlook on normalized EBIT.

27:27 As we mentioned during our outlook release in February, The elements you mentioned like revenue, capex, etc. are pointers underlying this guidance. So the official guidance is for normalized EBIT and free cash flow. But good to note that, of course, as also mentioned to Michiel, we see the positive development quarter over quarter. and we also see that we have our main quarter to come so the fourth quarter with our development on yield measures as you have also seen supported by our increase in average price per parcel which is expected to further increase in the Q4 also given well you can think of peak charges etc

28:28 that together combined with our agile adaptation to the volume expectations and volume volatility as we face following this customs regulations and rightfully so as you say also with the further 1 November handling fee to come. But that bundling together and our disciplined execution on our strategy makes us comfortable to land in our outlook.

29:11 Then on your third question relating to the mail decline of 3.6%. in the quarter. Let me start by saying that overall the Q3 in general is relatively to the other quarters a very light quarter in light of volumes. And what we see is that if you adjust for elections, the year-to-date volume decline is minus 6.3%. So what impacts the relatively moderate decline in this quarter is driven by phasing effects mainly in the direct mail area compared to phasing with last year. and maybe good to remind you also for going forward for Q4 of course last year in Q4 we had a very good volume development or a relatively good volume development given the specific mailings which we had back then so you can think of the elections of the specific supportage package from the government, pension mailings etc. which were happening in Q4 last year.

30:40 So overall for the yearly volumes we expect that to be in line with our known trend in volume decline or familiar trend in volume decline. And then last, your last question on fuel charges. Well, I can confirm we are able to fully transfer the fuel charges onto our customers in both in the segments which you are in the e-commerce and platform segments.

31:20 So I can confirm that. Thank you. If I may, just one quick follow-up. So when you say that you need one year of preparation to move to D plus 3 from, let's say, Gen 28, I mean, we're very close already to, let's say, Gen 27. So if you need approval and then a year of preparation, are we confident that we can implement D plus 3 by Gen 28 or there are risks of further delays? Thank you. From our side, we are fully prepared to implement this change. As you have also successfully seen with our implementation of Dplus2,

32:05 which we fully implemented both in e-commerce and in mail, together with the fact that also there we are already meeting the statutory quality levels almost straight from the start. So that's I think a very impressive result. And with that same discipline and change management capability which we have built, we are confident to have that ready in a year time. Thank you.

32:46 We will take our next question. And the question comes from Mark Swattenberg from ING. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Thank you very much. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Coming back to the impact from the delay in D plus 3, can you perhaps give a bit of an quantitative indication what the impact is on 2027 because I think at the Capital Market Day you gave this range what the savings would be from D plus 3 I guess half of that or something like that is then no longer coming in 2027 but maybe you can give us a bit of a number on that and maybe link to that you also mentioned that the management contract and the USO that you still granted the volumes Well, the main part of the volumes, but also part of the volumes maybe not.

33:45 Does that have an extra negative impact on the picture that we had from the capital market day? Will that mean that you have less volumes and therefore need to cut more costs or will have less EBIT from that change?

34:03 I'll take these two and then for you to raise follow-up questions that maybe land at Linda's desk or at mine again, let's see. Let's be clear, the capital markets day breakthrough financials did not assume implementation of D plus 3 in 2027 to be clear, so it did assume from the get-go implementation of D plus 3 in 2028. But that's not to say that without the obligation the 2027 network wouldn't look differently. So there's two different things. What have we assumed in terms of capital markets guidance and what is your net cost methodology saying about the cost of the obligation that we have? So there's two distinct things.

34:55 So this delay of implementation of D plus 3 not from July 27 towards January 2028 does not impact our breakthrough financials at all. That's one. I think on the government contract we did assume that that tender is going to give various lots and we did not assume that we would win all of them so this win in terms of volumes is exactly as we anticipated it would be against conditions that are definitely not worse than what we assumed so also this is not a negative development in comparison to your capital markets day financial assumptions okay that's very clear thanks Pim for that Then on the yields per parcel that improved from plus 5, if I'm correct, for Q2 to plus 6 in Q3.

36:03 But at the same time you see that the international parcel decline doubled. So I would say there is a positive mix effect from those flows falling

36:13 out. But then if I would adjust for that, maybe there's no underlying yield improvement anymore. Can you maybe give a bit more color on how I should look at that?

36:24 The element that you're missing there Mark is that the letterbox parcels are also transferred from mail to parcels bringing a negative mix effect so the underlying development of the price per parcel is still very much positive and improving quarter after quarter and that's why we're confident that we're strategically commercially on the right path from that volume to value strategy.

36:51 Okay, so the plus six is including the letter block parcels. Okay, yeah, that would explain it. Then the domestic parcel volumes, they improved from a minus three to around flat-ish. Correct what I'm saying? And you said that an improving trend is continuing. Did you see then a better exit rate in September? And do you see that going on also in Q4? Because you sound quite confident on that part of the volumes also going into Q4. Can you maybe give a bit more? Yes, we can confirm that. And the exit rate in September was then...

37:37 Can you give an indication where we should work from? I can't give the exact numbers,

37:44 but we see that positive trend and that's what we can confirm. Okay. That may be on the Asian volumes. On the back of the new regulation, they accelerated downwards. Maybe there's more to comment as a regulation. What are your expectations there going forward? Should we assume a further deterioration of the trend of minus 32 or what are the expectations there? Yeah, well, of course, that's difficult to assess. We wish we would have a glass ball. That would make our lives much easier, as you can imagine. But yes, we will see the new 1 November handling fee still to come. So I would say it's fair to assume that the Asian volume development

38:43 will be lower than the previous year in Q4. However, the exact pattern, we also don't know. What we see in reality with what is happening at those Asian platforms is that they are all trying to adapt their business models to this new reality. And you actually see that in different flavors. You see platforms on the one hand trying to swallow those fees on a larger basket size, that they try to bundle that more. You also see platforms shifting their focus to the a bit more higher end products and moving away from the let's say real cheap products as those fees have a relatively high proportion on those

39:52 cheap products and we also see platforms fully I would say reshaping their business models by rethinking or reassessing their commercial propositions and logistic processes towards really moving from B2C to B2B with warehouses in Europe. So you really see different

40:28 ways of adapting to those fees which are being levied to them and that of course takes time so it's not that it's solved tomorrow but obviously we are very closely monitoring these developments and also see that as an opportunity given the strength we have on our end with all these different models and where we can support

40:58 them in those transitions and that is what we expect to recover but the timing thereof is uncertain but we are there to to take on the business as soon as they have reinvented themselves, so to say. Okay, thank you. And then maybe the last one on the free cash flow. Guide is now at around zero at the high end of the range. So very good, Linde. And it's mainly explained by network and capital, right? Yeah, that's correct. That's what I understood. Is that just a structural thing that you improved your collection, or is there also a bit of one-off in there, that it's a bit of a phasing from Q4 to Q1? Can you maybe give a bit of color there, so we have a bit of a feel of where we should start from for 2027?

42:01 Yeah, sure. No, this is really structural cash flow improvement. So really by our real active management on working capital and as such, no incidentals or something like that. Okay, well, that's very good. Thank you very much for my questions. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one, one on your telephone. We will take our next question. The question comes from Henk Slotboom from The Idea. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Good morning and thanks for taking my questions. First of all, on slide seven, I'm a bit confused with the Price increase, the average price per parcel is up 7%.

42:57 That's what the header says. If I look at the price movement in the flow chart underneath it, it's 18 million, of which 5 million is a fuel surcharge. I guess if I take that out, then if I put it into perspective of the 466 million last year, then it's around 3%. I seem to be missing something here. There's a disconnect in my view with the picture underneath it. Connected to it, you were referring to the mix effect, Linde?

43:35 Yes. If I were to do a very simple calculation, then last year's average revenue per parcel was 424. If I were to add 7% and make a calculation what the average revenue for parcels is for the letterbox parcels, I arrive at a figure of around 180 to 190. These are to-door parcels. It's not that they are delivered in APMs or whatever. Is my calculation correct? Or again, what am I missing here?

44:16 and at the same time and that's also with reference to the uh to the mix effect um if my calculations are correct um you've lost around seven million international parcels instead you get eight million letterbox parcels how can the mix effect be so negative because the international parcels um decline that should have had a positive effect uh and net net there's a 13 million negative effect and it says mainly because of the censure

44:48 of letterbox parcels so it's a long first question but maybe you can shed some light on it yeah and a lot of numbers just kidding now let me start with your last point on the mix effect so looking at the mix effect there are different elements to that As we have mentioned indeed at the beginning of the year as well, the key mix effect which you see is the mix effect coming from those letterbox parcels. Those letterbox parcels obviously have a lower yield as such, relatively negative to that extent. We also have, like we have seen in the trends in the previous quarter slash years, I would say, continued effect from, I would call it, larger customers with lower priced shipments.

45:55 So there are also other negative mix effects, but the primary one is coming from the letterbox parcels, which is partly offset, though still a couple of million, coming from the fact that the Asian volumes are lower and therefore helping with the positive mix effect. So the positive mix effect which you see is not then taking into account those letterbox parcels. So it's a combination of the two. And then on your... Yeah?

46:41 And then your question on the price. Well, maybe it's good to check your calculations, what we see from an average price per parcel, the increase which we see. It is a combination of the price increases which we see, the tariff increases. including as you say the fuel charges and that being on the other side the effect of the offset by the mix effect as you see on the slide. So not sure how your exact calculations are happening on your side but may be good to take them separately.

47:31 Well, perhaps it's good to take that after the call, but I separate mix effects from price effects because that's what you do as well. Let's

47:46 say the different streams have different price points per stream. We separate price and tariff increases with mixed effects. You have mixed effects within domestic, you have mixed effects within international, and you have mixed effects between the streams. between domestic and international. So if we talk mix effects, it's the mix effect within domestic that is predominantly driven by the letterbox transfer to parcels. If we talk mix within international, it's the composition of the type of customers that we serve that could have mixed effects. And mix between the streams is the relative split between volume being domestic or international.

48:33 those three elements then the price tariff increases is significantly up compared to your last year's average price per item then the mix within domestic is negative as Linde said because of the transfer letterbox parcels and the mix between the streams is slightly positive those three together get you the increase in average price per item Okay, well, I'll do my calculations again, and if necessary, I'll reach out to Inge. The next question I have is, a lot has been said about D plus 3. There's also this 75 million savings program.

49:25 Well, given the fact that we are right now in terms of postal regulation and that sort of things, and the uncertainty you're facing and the probability that the transfer to D plus three, well, the probability, well, that that will be delayed, does that in any way affect the timing of the 75 million additional cost savings you referred to in the first half year results presentation?

49:55 Thanks Henk. Well it's good to make to be clear that the 75 million which we announced additional savings which we announced in a half year relates to our cost price per parcel plan on e-commerce. So it is really aimed at the e-commerce side and also the savings are predominantly within e-commerce and also related head office areas like procurement, IT, et cetera. So that is not interfering or in that sense connected as such to the D plus 3 meal area.

50:40 Okay, perfect. That's clear. And then the final question, Linde, you said that the changing behavior of the Asian webshops might be an opportunity, but I see several things happening from the side of the Chinese, for example, and local warehousing, local fulfillment.

50:59 But we also see the rise of parties like GoFo. And what I understood is that GoFo Amsterdam is doing already around 100,000 parcels per day. The Chinese are not known for being, well, generous payers if we talk about tariffs and that sort of things.

51:24 Do you really think that the change in the business model of the Chinese online platforms will, at the end of the day, bring better tariffs on the last mile, or that we are going to see the GoFos, the Joy Express type of players being more prominently active on the European markets. Yeah, well, maybe on the, of course, those market entrants are not new to us. I mean, we have seen them already earlier in the year as well. What is key for us is that, of course, that connection between the customs regulation development and those players are of course reinforcing or helping each other.

52:22 are not helping each other because of course there gets more and more cost focus on that. On the other side, also don't underestimate our area

52:34 of that we are also, let's say, re-looking or redefining our, for instance, our out-of-home strategy in combination with our volume to value change. to ensure that we well if they go further down well that's not necessarily our trajectory and we focus on our strength and really go for the areas where we can continue our volume to value

53:04 strategy which is obviously also in that area or for instance our out of home proposition where later today we will give more There seems to be no further questions. I will hand back to Inge Laudy for closing remarks. Thank you all for participating in this Q3 analyst call and a short reminder for our out of home deep dive that will start at half past two. You can register for the audio webcast on the PostNL website at the investor section. A Q&A session there is available via the chat functionality.

54:04 I hope to see you all back later today. Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect