Mineral Resources (ASX:MIN) Q1 2027 Earnings Call

0:00 Thank you for standing by and welcome to Mineral Resources Call covering today's release of its September 2026 Exploration and Mining Activity Report. Your speakers today are Mel Bundy, Independent Non-Executive Chair, Mark Wilson, Chief Financial Officer, Darren Killeen, Chief Operating Officer, and Chris Chong, General Manager, Investor Relations. A little bit of admin before we kick off. Participants will be able to ask both text and live audio questions. To ask a text question, select the messaging icon, type your question in the box towards the top of the screen, and press the send button. To ask a live audio question, press the request to speak button at the top of the broadcast window.

0:53 The broadcast will be replaced by the audio question screen. Use the dial-in number and access pin provided to ask your question via the phone. Alternatively, for those on a home or personal network, you can ask your question via the web by pressing Join Queue. If prompted, select Allow in the pop-up to grant access to your microphone. If you have any issues using the platform, dial-in details can also be found on the homepage under Asking Audio Questions. Text questions can be submitted at any time and the audio queue is now open. This call is being recorded with a written transcript being uploaded to the MinRES website later today.

1:40 I will now hand over to the MinRES team. Thanks, David, and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. My name is Mark Wilson. I'm the CFO of Mineral Resources and joining me today is Mel Bundy, Chair, Darren Colleen, Chief Operating Officer, and Chris Chong, General Manager, Investor Relations. I'll start this morning with a few opening remarks on the quarter before we move to questions. The September quarter again demonstrated the strength of our diversified business model. We posted record quarterly mining services volumes of 103 million tonnes. We achieved record production across Underflow Iron and the Pilbara Hub. And we delivered record lithium sales.

2:25 Our cost control by our teams on site over the quarter was outstanding. Our focus remains on what we can control, operational delivery, cost discipline and a strong balance sheet, allocating capital only where the returns justify it. On the governance front in September, ASIC advised it had concluded its investigation would take no enforcement action. We're pleased to have that matter closed, noting it does not change our focus on governance, which remains a priority. Moving to the balance sheet, which continues to strengthen despite softer iron ore and lithium prices. Liquidity improved to $2.5 billion at 30 September, comprising $1.7 billion of cash. and a fully undrawn $800 million revolving credit facility.

3:15 In September, Fitch upgraded our credit rating to BB with a stable outlook. Over the quarter, net debt reduced to approximately $4.1 billion, largely reflecting a $170 million increase in cash. And that cash increase was after capital expenditure of $310 million and the payment of the FY26 four-year dividend of $160 million. FX movements on our US dollar liabilities, other working capital movements and net interest paid were minimal in the quarter. We still expect the POSCO lithium transaction to complete in the first half of FY27, subject to conditions precedent. Just a note on diesel before we turn to the operations.

4:03 Again, we experienced no disruption to fuel supply. Average diesel prices for the quarter were in line with $1.25 per litre in our cost guidance. However, prices rose to around $1.60 per litre in September and with a one-month pricing lag, we expect that increase to flow through to FOB costs from October. On a run rate basis, just to give you some guidance, that $0.35 increase equates to about $1 per tonne at Onflow Iron, $2 per tonne at the Pilbara Hub, and about $20 per tonne SE6 at our lithium sites. Regardless if diesel prices stay at this level, we still expect FY27 FOB costs to remain within guidance at every operation, with Mount Marion at the upper end of its range.

4:56 More on this shortly. As a reminder, mining services margins are not affected by diesel prices and this is because fuel cost is generally passed through to or supplied by the client. Turning to mining services, quarterly production volumes were up 10% from the prior quarter, with a record 103 million tonnes. This was driven by the ramp-up of Bald Hill and the Pilbara Hub, as well as increased strip activity at Mount Marion. We also commenced a new external contract for ore sorting, renewed two existing crushing contracts and completed two contracts in the quarter. And we remain on track for FY27 guidance between 370 to 390 million tonnes.

5:46 In the iron ore division, Onslow Iron produced a record 10.7 million tonnes in the quarter, up 17% on the prior quarter on a 100% basis. We saw shipments from Onslaught Line at 9.2 million tonnes on a 100% basis, which is an annualised run rate of approximately 36.9 million tonnes. The tributal shipments were 5 million tonnes, or 54% of the total, compared to our 57% equity share, and that simply reflects shipment timing. Onflow Iron is tracking to guidance despite some unseasonable weather and a seven day impact due to maintenance of the port in load circuit earlier in the period. Once the circuit returned to service, September was the project's highest export month on record at 3.49 million tonnes, surpassing the previous record set in June.

6:44 The seventh transshipper was commissioned in August and with seven transshippers now in the fleet, One vessel can rotate through scheduled maintenance while six remain in operation and that gives us the flexibility and redundancy we were targeting. The first part of the dredging campaign at the port of Ashburton is complete. Works will resume in mid-November and they're expected to be complete by the end of the December quarter. We expect only minimal impact on volumes. Realisations in the quarter were solid at 86% of the PLATS 61% index and FOB costs was $53 per tonne, below the lower end of our $54 to $58 per tonne guidance range. Again, we maintain FY27 FOB cost guidance despite current elevated diesel pricing.

7:35 At the Pilbara hub, production was 3.2 million tonnes, that's up 55% on the prior quarter, and we shipped 2.9 million tonnes. Lamb Creek successfully transitioned from commissioning to full operations with all major construction complete. I just want to point out Lamb Creek is a great demonstration of our in-house engineering and construction capability to deliver at speed. We only broke ground at the site in December 25. Realisations in the quarter were 84% of the PLAT 61% index supported by higher lump weighting. Bob cost us $75 per tonne, in line with guidance of $74 to $79 per tonne.

8:26 In Lithium, sales were a record 170,000 tonnes SC6, up 8%. The average realised price was US$1,873 per tonne SC6. That's down 23%, impacted by the sharp pull in Lithium prices in September. For context, as most of Minres's lithium sales are made on the spot market, our realised prices move ahead of the lagging indices. That means realisations fall earlier than the indices in a foreign market like September, and we've tended to outperform the indices when prices are rising. In addition, average realised prices would have been 2% higher, excluding prior period adjustments.

9:11 Discipline and cost control remains a priority, as you've seen across all of our sites as we navigate market conditions through the cycle. At Wojana, sales were 90,000 tonnes SE6 and all three trains operated continuously. That lifted production by 9%. Stage 3 ore became available in the quarter and recoveries improved to 70%. We expect more consistent clean ore supply in the second half. Plob cost was down to $674 per tonne SZ6 within guidance. At Marion, this is a transitional year for Mount Marion with volumes moderating as we open up the northern pits. We expect plob cost to be higher, reflecting lower volumes and recoveries.

9:58 Stripping activity will be elevated this year before the strip ratio decreases in FY28 as underground feed is incorporated. Construction of the flotation plant has commenced and earthworks are on track. McMahon also mobilised the site in July and blasting of the underground bed plant has commenced. In the quarter, the opening of the northern pitch lifted the strip ratio We also set a higher proportion of lower grade contact ore, which reduced recoveries to 52%. Sales totaled 58,000 dry metric tonnes, SC6 equivalent basis. Fog cost was $1,029 per tonne SC6, marginally above the top of our full year guidance range of $960 to $1,020.

10:51 Reflecting the Q1 result we expect the FY27 FOBCOS to be at the upper end of guidance as we expect recoveries to improve marginally. At Balls Hill we continue this ramp up in the quarter and is on track to name plate of 140,000 tonnes SE6 this quarter. FOD costs of $1,498 per tonne SE6 reflects a low volume ramp up quarter and we expect the full year to land within the guidance range of $1,150 to $1,250. In closing, this was a strong start to FY27. and it built on our operational performance in FY26.

11:40 We delivered records across mining services, volumes, iron ore production and lithium sales. FY27 guidance is maintained for every division. Liquidity is higher and net debt lower. The quarter showed the resilience of our diversified model with mining services as its foundation. With our strong liquidity and leveraged positions, we're well positioned to capitalise on the large pipeline of opportunities in front of us. With that, I'll hand back to Loomie to facilitate questions. Thanks. Thank you, Mark. If you have not yet submitted your text question or joined the live audio queue, please do so now. I will introduce each caller by name and ask you to go ahead. You'll then hear a beep indicating your microphone is live. and our first caller today comes from Matthew Friedman from MST Financial. Please go ahead.

12:43 Yeah, sure. Thanks. Morning, Mark and team. Can I ask about the Mining Services Division? Obviously, a strong start for the year, running at over 400 million tonnes annualised. I'm wondering if there's anything in particular that changes over the remainder of the year to, I guess, bring... things back into that guidance range. You called out that two contracts were completed during the quarter. Are they sort of material enough to move things back into the range, or should we assume that if things, you know, broadly stay as they are, that you're tracking towards the top end of that guidance range, or perhaps even better, you know, given potential for contract wins, et cetera? Thanks. Thanks for your question, Matt. And this is Darren. Listen, mining services benefited from, you know, additional mining activity at Mount Marion, Pilbara and Bald Hill. through the quarter.

13:31 So we do expect second half volumes to be lower. That being said, we also expect to hold our guidance. So the mining activity reduces, you know, we've got some seasonality at Onslow that we're forecasting forward. So, look, we're maintaining guidance. I wouldn't be, you know, taking our first quarter results and multiplying that by four. OK, got it. Thanks, Darren. And then maybe, I guess, a similar kind of question on Onslow, obviously. a very strong month of September, you know, 42 million tonnes per annum annualised just from that month alone after the maintenance. Again, is that sort of evidence of the creep through the system there with, you know, now having seven transshippers online, you know, maybe some improvement works done at the port during that maintenance period? Yeah, how kind of embedded is that sort of run rate or is that just indicative of, you know, sprint capacity at a single point in time during the month of September? Thanks.

14:28 Yeah, Loza is performing well. We've got seven transshippers, as Mark said, with six always operating. So we now have the flexibility that we've been communicating. You know, record shippers since September, and we've had some unseasonal weather up there today, a bit of maintenance at the port, as we said. So, look, we're focused on sweating those assets to 40 million tonne per annum. You know, we're moving into cyclone season. We've got that seasonal weather in front of us. So, look, again, we're maintaining guidance in it. The next question is from Rahul Anant from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Hi, Tim. Thanks for the call. I've got two. I'll probably start with the Pilbara Hub first and go to Woj in a second.

15:15 Just on the Pilbara Hub, I note that you had a higher lump mix in the sales this period as well versus 25, which is your guidance, and that obviously led to a better pricing result. or rather an inline pricing result with Onslow. So I guess my question is, firstly, why was the realization on the fines product so much worse than Onslow? And then the second part of this question is just around the profitability of this business. Like, obviously, in the current market with high freight rates, on a cash basis, the business... is losing, but you're obviously gaining tons in the mining services business and depending on how you allocate sustaining capital, I'm sure you're solving for that. You know, you're generating a result for the business. I just want to understand, like, where's the break point for that and do you have a sort of, you know, a view you can provide us as to how we should think about these volumes.

16:19 That's the first one. I'll come back with an easier one on what, you know, second. Thanks for the question, Rahul. Look, you're spot on. You know, the Pilbara Hub's marginal at spot prices. We do see good cost-care support where we're at at the moment. Our landscape was developed in nine months. You know, we've got lower cost and more lump. You're right, Mining Services delivers about 55 million tonne per annum in volumes. On top of that, we've got considerable strategic value or option value in the central pool that we're working on and I suppose that's where we're focused on maximising our long-term returns. We do expect 35% in terms of our lump returns for the rest of the financial year. It is better than expected and so 35% is the number of lumps at the moment.

17:09 Okay, got it. All right, look, I'll move on to what you know. In terms of the recovery, quite a decent result at 70%, and obviously the cleaner oil feed is yet to come through. How should we think about that recovery once the oil quality improves? Is there going to be a bit of upside there, or have you had access to better oil already? Like, what's driving that result? Thanks for the question. We've been talking for some time about the Clean All Feed and it is starting to enter the three plans. So we're running three trains consistently The clean oil feed will continue through the back half of FY26. You know, Wajin is a world-class asset. You know, performance will continue to improve. Recovery is at 70%, which, you know, the team is certainly working on that and better.

17:57 We just need to keep watching it and we'll let you know when we know more. You know, we're studying low-risk high-return expansion options as we've communicated. You know, Wajin is a great asset. Thank you. The next question comes from Kate McCutcheon from Bank of America. Please go ahead. Hi. Hi. Good morning, Mark. Thank you. Just at Bald Hill, so I guess you decided to restart that asset when prices are in the mid-2000 level. That is less than $1,600 today. What levers do you have there to pull? I know that you're going to be restarting the assets. I know the strategy has been to sell it, but it doesn't make sense to lock in some offtake there. What things can you flex?

18:43 Thanks for the question, Kate. It's Darren. Look, you're right. It's marginal at today's prices. We're focused on costs. We're on track to reach known plating Q2 out there at Bald Hill. We'll be ramping up in the first quarter. You know, Bald Hill contributes 25 million tonnes random to mining services. It also sits in there similar to the Pilbara Hub story. And look, we're studying expansion options we spoke of previously. So, you know, we view it in the medium term, not short term. You know, at the moment, it's finishing ramp up and we're moving into steady state. Okay, good. And then maybe following on from your Ford Hill expansion option comment.

19:28 So Mark, you noted a large pipeline of opportunities in front of you in your opening remarks. What are those key opportunities that you're thinking about here if you have to rank them organic options or inorganic? Thank you. Okay. So we think about the options in front of us in strict senses. We're focused, as we've talked previously, about these internal brownfields expansion opportunities that we're pursuing through the portfolio. You know about the Marion opportunities that we're going through with Underground and Float. We've talked extensively about the options at Wojnar as well. Darren's just touched on the expansion at Bald Hill. We see all sorts of optionality up in the central Pilbara region with the supply chain that we've had up there for a long time and the operating experience and skills we have up there. And as Darren said, we're stretching or sweating the tons at Onslaught towards 40. So we see that brownfields growth as being our priority, low risk, high return. We see other opportunities through the market domestically in Australia. We're still working through a range of those with clients and prospective clients.

20:44 And then we've talked previously about options offshore. So they're the three rings that we think about. But our primary focus at the moment is just delivering on those internal brownfield expansions. The next question comes from James Redfern from RBC. James, please go ahead. Good morning Mark, Dan and Chris, hope you're well. Just had a few questions please. First of all, in the FY26 results conference call you talked about potential pop-up opportunities in a joint venture with a shovel-ready project. I just wanted to get an update on that please, just in terms of where MINRES is at with relation to that potential, I guess, transaction.

21:29 Thank you. Yeah, thanks for the question, James. Well Gatsby previously communicated when Mark just outlined our strategy. We're assessing a whole bunch of projects, James. If that's something we like, first and foremost we like it in Australia, but offshore opportunities are something we're looking at. Nothing's closed on any of those. We're assessing them. If they fit the capital elevation framework, if we can unleash the MnRIS model, then we consider it. But at the moment, still all under assessment. Okay, thank you. Now, Min had a strong operational performance in the quarter, which is great. But, however, low lifting prices were obviously a drag. And you're selling on a spot basis. Prices are currently around 1,300 euros a tonne. So how should we be thinking about prices in the December quarter? I mean, they're obviously materially lower than the September quarter. Just wondering what you think, what's your views there on spot prices at the moment?

22:34 James, it's Mark. In terms of lithium pricing, you know, we're still focused longer term on the fundamentals in the market. We still see that demand growth expected to come through in future periods. You know, CODL came out with its own estimate of demand increase, 20% to 30% for next year. We see inventories falling. So we see the fundamentals are there. There is a lot of noise in the market. There are a lot of rumours that tend to move the price. We're looking past that. We're focusing on the things we can control, which is costs and volume. Thank you. The next question comes from Lyndon Fagan from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.

23:21 Good morning, everyone. Hi, guys. Look, just wondering if the current lithium market weakness is tempering your enthusiasm for any of the lithium expansions. Hi Lyndon, good morning. In terms of the expansions, we're just continuing to do the work on each of the assets. We're committed and underway on Marion and that's going to be a great outcome for that site. That'll drive our volumes up and our costs down and we'll move to a single product of SC5. So there's a whole range of benefits for us continuing those expansion activities at Marion. Wojana is just a world-class asset and we'll continue to work with the JV partner there to understand what those alternatives look like.

24:17 Just remember that as we think about increasing volume on sites, that has the ability to bring costs down. That's really what we want to see across our operations. Okay, thanks. And the other one is, can't help but ask this, I mean, is CMRG in the background looming with you guys or have you escaped their wrath at this stage? Yeah, we don't have any direct engagement or connection with CMRG. Our volumes at Onslow, the majority of those have been committed by BALWU as JV partner for its own mills. We only have small volumes in our iron ore business that are traded in the open market, so we're very small in the context of production out of Australia.

25:10 The next question comes from Glyn Lawcock from Baron Joey. Glyn, please go ahead. Hi, good morning all. I just wanted to clarify that dredging it on, so is that just the pre-existing birth pocket, or is it the channel, or are you putting in an expanded birth pot so you can get another transhipper in while one's still there? Thanks. Yes, it's done, Glenn. Yes, it's pre-existing. It's in the current channel, and it's essentially maintenance dredging. If you want to look at it like that, it happens periodically. So, yes, existing pocket, not expansion work. Okay, because there was the ability, wasn't there, to make the pocket bigger and bring a trans shipper in while one's there. That's not contemplated at all, to maybe help squeeze a little bit more through the port?

26:03 Certainly, we've got a range of studies about what Onslow could look like in the future. And as we've previously discussed, that's one of them. But at the moment, we're focused on sweating that asset. We're not progressing any of those activities at this stage. Okay, that makes sense. And then the sell-down to POSCO, I mean, it's been dragging on. Is this still, like, what are we still waiting for now? Is there just, like, one outstanding? And is it POSCO who haven't submitted paperwork? Just trying to understand what's taking so long. Gwyneth Mark, hi there. Still a couple of things outstanding. There's still a number of CPs that have to be resolved, including some food party consent, so we just need to get those finalized. But, as I said, we expect that this half.

26:55 The next question, it comes from Ben Lyons from Jotting Securities. Ben, please go ahead. Thank you. G'day, Mark, Darren, and Christopher. Mark, first one to you please. I just want to interrogate the cash flow and the capital allocation a little bit further. Still got $4.1 billion of net debt in a falling commodity price environment and noting that the cash only lifted by about $170 million during the quarter, which was boosted by landfills of $50 million and 32 proceeds from the carry loan. Obviously, you have the dividend flowing out and the $300 of CapEx going out, but no working capital movements and no coupons on your debt facilities either.

27:44 So I'm just interested in the relatively weak cash that was added to the balance sheet despite the strong operating performance and if there was anything else lumpy in there to explain that. and secondly, just whether those unsuccessful Pilbara gas or carbon gas wells are included in the capex or the pay expense. Thanks. G'day, Ben. In terms of the cash and the balance sheet, look, we're very happy with the position we're in. We've shown over the last 12 plus months the ability to deliver. I'll point out that one of the ratings agencies just upgraded us because of their view on how we're performing with the balance sheet. In terms of leverage, it's well below our target.

28:30 Our liquidity is sitting at $2.5 billion. We are generating cash. Our first maturity is October 28. I think the two refis that we did last year or over the last 12 months demonstrates the support we have from our debt partners. So I'm comfortable with where we are. I am comfortable with where we are. Yeah, okay, cool. So just confirming there was nothing else particularly lumpy in the quarter to take into account and just on the gas wells, whether they were in the CapEx bucket or the expenses bucket. Thanks. Yeah, so they've been held in CapEx at the moment, but we'll review that as we get to the done state.

29:21 Yeah, okay, cool. Obviously both unsuccessful. Just moving to Wojnar and the growth projects there, you were looking at, from memory, additional grinding capacity, maybe the installation of a ball mill at the front end, and the second project was the potential fourth concentrator. So just wondering if you can provide a little bit of detail about the projects that are currently being assessed by the studies and whether that's included in the current PISCOR 27 CAPEX guidance. Thank you. Ben, it's Darren. Thanks for the question. Look, you're spot on with the two upgrades you just spoke of. So those are still a work in progress, expected to be completed in Q3. We previously said the upgrades are not mutually exclusive. We can do them both, do one at a time, depending on what the market says.

30:08 We haven't engaged with our JV partners out there in terms of what does it look like and when do we move and make decisions on those. But Q3 is when we'll have enough information to make that assessment. The next question comes from Mitchell Ryan from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Thank you for taking my question. Just can you remind us of the carrying value of the Perth Basin JV? Are there any implications we should be thinking about given Hancock has withdrawn from that? Yeah, there's no real carrying value in terms of the Perth Basin JV. No real implications from that decision of Hancock.

30:56 Okay, and then my second question is just around just the cost associated with the transshipper maintenance. How will that be treated and can you sort of quantify that? Is it material in any way, shape or form? Yeah, it's not material in any way. It's factored into the mining services margins. We expense it and it's all taken into account in our planning for our mining services operations. Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a text question, select the messaging icon, type your question in the box towards the top of the screen and press the send button. To ask a live audio question, press the request to speak button at the top of the broadcast window.

31:43 If you have any issues using the platform, dial in details can also be found on the homepage under asking audio questions. And our next question today comes from Lachlan Shaw from UBS. Please go ahead. Morning, Mark and Sam. Thanks very much for the call. Two questions from me. So just firstly, I just wanted to unpack a little the mining services growth piece into copper. I'm just interested in how you think around the trade-offs around, you know, maybe taking a sort of a a lower risk incremental approach, getting a few contracts in the CSI versus a more structural, you know, taking equity in an asset and then coupling that with potentially life of mine contracts.

32:35 But how do you weigh that up? And then secondly, just in jurisdiction, obviously, you know, defining feature of you guys is your culture, but new jurisdictions, just interested in how you think about and the potential to replicate the successful culture in some of those new jurisdictions. I'll come back with my second question. Look, to answer the first question there Lachlan, our capital adaptation framework which we've already set out sort of defines where we need to be in terms of returns and the like. We've communicated previously that South America is a region we like. So from a jurisdiction perspective, we like South America, we like Chile, but the work's got to be done in terms of everything you'd expect to do in terms of working in the country in those regions.

33:32 Capital Allocation Framework will define whether we do a project onshore and onshore is our first and foremost in terms of our strategy and if it's offshore then we discount things such as jurisdictions such as whether it's in copper, whether it's in iron ore, there's a bunch of framework that we've set up to say well is it right for us and can we deploy the MinRes model and can we win. Great. Thanks, Sarah. And second question from me. So just on though, obviously, you know, pretty pleasing to see the run rate in September. But when you think about sweating towards 40 million tonnes and maybe even beyond, can you just remind us, you know, what are the biggest opportunities you see in front of you? You know, is it autonomous trucks?

34:21 Is it more their bottlenecking at port? And how should we think about timing on that sort of potential pathway? Thank you. Look, you can see that the run rates we achieve, we hit the mark in terms of 40 million tonne per annum regularly. It's really about that consistency, right? So we've got weather that's largely out of our control, but we've got a lot of historical data that feeds into what it is we do. So look, understanding the seasonality, you know, TSV, the system's designed that the shiploader is the bottleneck, right? So we've been doing a lot of work around the shiploader. How do we increase throughput through the shiploader, through the reclaimer, and how do we utilise our TSVs? So the seven TSVs gives us the sprint capacity we've been looking for.

35:10 It allows us to do the maintenance on the cycle times that we've been looking for. So, look, focusing on spreading those assets to 40 really, really evolves around how we utilise the transshippers and how we manage the C-states. The next question comes from Matthew Friedman from MST Financial. Please go ahead. Yeah, sure. Thanks for the opportunity for some further questions. I really just wanted to follow up on some of the earlier questions on the potential for further lithium volume expansion. And, Mark, obviously you discussed the sort of medium to long-term fundamental outlook in the lithium market. and obviously you're looking to progress the expansion works at Wajina in terms of kind of detailed design works in the current quarter.

36:02 So I'm wondering how you internally and also, you know, in collaboration with your JV partners, including POSCO, how you assess market conditions and pricing before committing to bringing on that further volume. I mean, I'd suggest that your capital intensity is probably lower relative to some of the other expansion projects that are out there in the market. So maybe the price that you need to deliver attractive returns is arguably lower than some of the peers. But yeah, are there any sort of thresholds in terms of what you need to be seeing in the market when assessing the timing of investing in further expansion? Do you have a sort of floor price in your analysis in terms of what you need to see in order to clear your hurdle rate. And I guess, do your JV partners think about the market in the same way in terms of the timing of being able to commit to further expansions?

36:49 Thanks. And thanks for the 25 questions. I'll try to remember half of them. I apologize for that. No, no, no. It's all good. It's all good. You've highlighted one of the important points actually in your question, that is that our capital intensity is significantly lower than others when we look at these opportunities. And that's one of the great advantages of our model. It's the result of decades of operating in Western Australia doing what we do. and the other thing that it gives us is a higher level of confidence when we come to do the work so when we do the work we've got a high level of confidence that the work will be delivered for the price that we report because we self-perform so that gives us a high level of confidence when we do our analysis as it happens the sorts of opportunities that we're looking at are all generating we're all projected to generate very high returns that even a conservative Commodity prices You won't be surprised to know that we assess a range of scenarios.

37:55 We work on those internally. We tend to take conservative view on commodity prices, particularly for something like lithium where there has been a little bit more volatility in it. So we try to think through things like that. I hope that gives you a bit of a sense of it. But they are JVs, as you've identified, and we just need to keep working with our joint venture partners. will update the market if and when we make those decisions to proceed. Thanks, Mark. I think that addressed most of the 25 questions. Thanks. Thanks, Mark. The next question comes from Gwynne Walcock from Darren Joey. Please go ahead.

38:41 Thanks for the follow-up. Mark, I just wanted to explore the copper opportunity a little bit more. Do you see this as a fee-for-service, perhaps in terms of design and build? Or do you envisage you having to put your balance sheet into this project? And if so, how much would you feel comfortable spending, given, I guess, you know, the current balance sheet debt level? You know, Roscoe's going to come in obviously soon, but the current pricing environment. Just trying to understand how you're thinking about it. Like, is it a fee-for-service, or are you actually going to have to put your balance sheet in and get equity back? Thanks. Well, Darren, look, we're certainly, you know, if we're going to, typically, you know, we want to take equity. We want an earning. How we do that, as you've seen over the years, there's many, many ways we've done that.

39:29 You know, we need mining services to be a key part of it. We need build and operate to be a key part of it. And we need, and I keep talking about we need to unleash the model, right? So we need to, minerals need to be able to win. And winning is delivering mining services volumes, delivering the mining services model. and using the unique skillset we have to deliver to turn our way into these projects using that min-res currency to enable us to deliver the returns we're looking for. So probably not really answering your question but we need to unleash the model and we need to maintain mining services at the front of all those conversations. Glen, it's Mark. I'll just come in with, in addition to what Darren just said, you know, I guess the business capability that we have gives us a lot of flexibility in the way that we approach any opportunity. Ideally, we want to partner with parties where we can bring our build and operate design engineering solutions to the table.

40:35 Fundamentally, we need to target a minimum of 20% after tax IRR But, you know, what I'm describing there, Glenn, is our approach generally. I'm not talking about specific opportunity, yeah? I totally understand. And I guess any opportunity that came your way, because it sounds like you would put your balance sheet into it, this would all be incremental to the 27 capex guide and obviously extended to 28 most likely. Yeah, look, we don't have anything in the guidance that we've given for 27 for investment of any of that sort of nature. If we were to proceed with any sort of opportunity, you can assume that there'd be capex that would be extended over a period of time.

41:22 You know, it wouldn't be necessarily lump sum up front. But again, yeah, I'm talking very specific here. Is there a sense of what the upper limit would be? We could see this opportunity cost us I'm not going to put a number on anything like that, Glenn. We'll assess it at the time in the context of the balance sheet at the time and the state of the business. Okay. Thanks very much, Mark. Okay. Thank you. There are no further questions, and that concludes today's call. Please reach out to the MINRES team if you have any follow-up questions. You may now disconnect.