M&C Saatchi (LSE:SAA) — First Half 2024 Results

0:16 We international, right? Yeah. Good afternoon, and welcome to the M and

1:54 C SAATCHI PLC investor presentation. Perhaps a recorded meeting, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged. It can be submitted at any time by the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Just click Q and A, type your question and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to the management team of M and C SAATCHI PLC. Good afternoon. Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us. My name is Adol Kassab. I'm sitting here with our CFO Simon Fuller next to me, you'll hear from him in a moment, in order to present you with our first half results. These are my first results as CEO, so I'd like to thank my now chair, Zillah Bing Thorne, her leadership as Executive Chair at TILT. I joined.

2:49 Let me just tell you what we're going to do. I'll start with a brief overview of the results, then I'll hand over to Simon and he'll take you through financial performance in more detail. I'll then come back to give you my perspective on the business and you may have a little time for questions, I hope. So overall, I'm pleased to say these are a strong set of results, and they show the progress that we're continuing to make on our transformation journey. We delivered 6% like for like net revenue growth, and that was broad based in terms of both regions and specialisms. Our profit before tax was up 26% on a like for like basis, and you can tell we made progress on margin, which is now at 14.2%.

3:35 That's driven by a number of factors: our transformation programme, the strong growth of our high margin non advertising businesses, and significant progress in the advertising margin itself, which was up 7.2% points. Significantly during this period, we also disposed of several loss making or subscale businesses, and that programme is now substantially complete. We're on track to hit the 10,000,000 running rate target for savings at year end, which we declared previously. And our EPS, you'll find, is also helped by the fact that we have reduced dilution effects of put options having been settled during this period. A final point I'd like to make overall is that our operating cash conversion is strong, and that gives us a strong platform for future investment and growth.

4:30 I'd just like to say that I think it's very important to know these results are underpinned by our continued focus on client service and creativity. They're the engines of our current and our future success. We continue to be recognised around the world for our creativity in a very wide range of different capabilities. So for example, we've won both Sports Industry Agency of the Year, which for a seventh time winning that award, and we've won Global Performance Marketing Agency of the Year. Since my arrival, we've also democratised our data stack that expands those capabilities across the whole group, and that's part of our technology journey. And throughout this period of transformation and leadership change, I'm pleased to say that employee engagement has remained positive, which shows that we have a team of people who are all on board the mission.

5:22 Client retention and wins are strong, and you'll see on the slide many famous brand logos that choose to work with us. So to summarise, I would say we feel confident that our approach is delivering. It'll continue to do so, combining the most globally recognised name in advertising with a common platform which allows us to unleash our creativity. I'm going to pass you on to Simon, and he's going to give you a deeper dive on the financials. Thanks very much, Jade, and good afternoon, everyone. Thanks very much for joining us for the first time on Investor Meet. We hope this will be part of an ongoing dialogue, and we're looking forward to your questions. What I hope to cover in my financial review is a demonstration of how these strong results have really underpinned us and our foundations for future sustainable profitable growth.

6:19 And before I move on, I'll just note that throughout the results, we're going to be talking about like for like performance, which we think really helps us to better understand current and future performance because the business, as you all know, has been structurally evolving. So if I start with an overview of our P and L and key measures, We've seen some significantly improved momentum in half one. Zayd's already described some of that in his overview, but just to pull out a few pieces. So like for like revenue, as you can see from the chart, was plus 6% for the half, that's net revenue, and that's underpinned by similar growth rates in both non advertising and advertising. Non advertising was slightly higher growth rate, but similar.

7:06 Like for like operating profit was up 40%, and that's been driven by, as the slide describes, a very strong programme of cost efficiency across the business, both globally and locally, in terms of local cost control, but also the ongoing mix benefits of having a bigger non advertising business. Just to remind you, the non advertising business, from a margin point of view, is broadly double the margin of the advertising business. That all said, advertising itself has moved forward in terms of margin, and that's in the bottom corner of the slide, bottom right hand corner of the slide. And you can see that we've moved up 7.2 percentage points to 11.4%, and that returns us to double digits.

7:51 And advertising is a core part of our business, so it's good to see that in strong health, it's still two fifths of our overall group. And then finally, just in terms of cash, we did see a reduction in cash of £2,500,000 but this was having met some put options, so this is to do with the ownership structure of the business and the restructure of the business, so that we have less earnings dilution in the future. And we've also paid out in the first half our final dividend from the prior year, and That was about £2,000,000 So, actually, underlying cash performance continued to be very strong. If I move then on to the next three slides, I'm going to give a little bit more detail on revenue, We've included some waterfall bridges, some charts that really help to understand the moving parts of the revenue story. Firstly, this one, which is in Africa in total, and then we'll be looking at the business by region and specialism.

8:47 So like for like net revenue growth was strong at plus 6%, and what you can see in the waterfall chart is how we have helped to understand or helped to explain some of those moving parts, like the movements in currency, the movements in discontinued businesses, and what that then means for our results and the step up in like for like growth. We are on track with the sale of our South African business, which is due to complete this month, September, so in the next couple of weeks. And with that, the group structure programme will be largely completed in the second half of the year, and that's been an important part of setting the future operating model, which I'll touch on a bit more in a moment.

9:34 If we then look a little bit more in terms of regions, so as you know, we are a global business. Five of our six regions were in growth in half one, and that's what's described on the slide. And if you look at the largest and most positive contribution to our group in terms of that chart on the bottom left hand corner, you'll see it was The UK as the most significant driver, and that was fueled by our issues specialism. Dave is going speak a little bit more about what that specialism means and what it does in his section. APAC, which is mostly our business in Australia, was down by 6%, but that was an improvement on last year's down by 10%, and we know that there are some macro challenges in that part of the world.

10:23 And then Americas, which was in decline in 2023, has now stabilised. You can see that from the chart. But look, very importantly, you can see that we've got some good growth in a number of geographies Africa, Europe, The Middle East. And let me just give you a little bit more color on Europe and The Middle East. Firstly, Europe, that was plus 16.7%. That was a strong performance, particularly in advertising in Italy, And we saw good increases in client spend across Lidl, Porsche Design. And then The Middle East, which is growing by almost 50%, almost a half, that's particularly our business in The UAE. And we've got real strength in construction and real estate, and the economic conditions are strong and supportive of growth. If I move on to specialisms, that's the other way we look at our business. We split by geography, but we also split by discipline or capability, which we call specialisms.

11:25 You can see that three of the five segments in our specialisms were in growth, which represents about 70% of the business. Within that issues, I've already referred to as in strong growth at plus 30.4%, and that's a steadily growing part of our business, and it's almost doubled in size since 2021. Media was a tougher prior year, but this year is back into modest growth. And then advertising, which I've already described to be a core discipline, was back into growth, up 5.5% like for like, and that was against the weaker comparative for the prior year. Passions, which we now include PR within, was in modest decline, however, the important thing to note is we've been doing a lot of work in that area, particularly across sports and entertainment in our three regions, which is The UK, North America and Europe, and each of those were in very strong margin growth.

12:28 And so that's an optimisation piece of work that we've been been carrying out. Consulting was perhaps the toughest of the market conditions, was down 6.6%, but as you may well know, that's been across the consulting market. And that's very much a macro effect where there are discretionary client budgets that perhaps have been held back a little bit more. But we're very confident in what our capabilities in that area, and it's more about the macro. So in summary, we've got a very diverse array of global specialisms, and they've demonstrated good resilience in an uncertain environment. And yes, we expect that uncertain environment to continue into the future, but equally we feel that we've got a good and diverse business to be able to manage that.

13:20 Before detailing the improvement in margin and profit in terms of the detail, let me just talk a little bit about the backdrop, which is the improvements we've seen in our operating model. This slide reminds us that really that's perhaps under three headings, and they're in those sort of coloured boxes in the middle of the chart. And that's about restructuring, simplifying and streamlining the business. So we did have some subscale and loss making businesses, have been exited from the business. We did have a large number of put options. This was to do with where in the past we had bought businesses or acquired businesses in different geographies or specialisms.

14:07 And eventually, was diluting our earnings. You can see on the chart, that was diluting our earnings by almost a fifth twelve months ago. It's now down to about 6%, so a third of the level. And clearly, that's good for earnings growth and also good for sustainability of our cash now that, that has largely been concluded, that program. And then efficiency is being driven through our back office global programme. That is about ensuring that we've got global capabilities that service finance, property, IT, HR and other areas like procurement. Now that last step, just to say, is not just about improving the efficiency of our business and the profitability of our business, but it's also about improving the effectiveness of our business. So in other words, taking away some of that responsibility and focus on some of these back office activities from the local businesses so that they can focus on what they must do most, which is client service and creativity.

15:16 And the other thing I'd say is we've built a more scalable platform for future M and A. This chart shows a four year trend in operating margin, and it demonstrates a couple of important things. Firstly, what I've already referred to, which is we make a higher margin in our non advertising business. We're very happy to have an advertising business, and it's an important part of our offer, but the non advertising specialisms are higher margin, and so as they become bigger and more important in our business, we get a margin benefit. And those margins have themselves been stepping up, can see that on the chart. We moved up from half one to half one prior year to this year, and we've also moved up in terms of the trend line. And then on advertising, you can see we moved from a low single digit margin back to a double digit margin, and that's an inflection point. It's been assisted by all the things we've been talking about, both Zaid and myself, the exiting of loss making marginal businesses, the cost savings programme, that's really put our advertising business on a strong footing.

16:22 And in fact, if you look across the chart, we made our highest margin in advertising on that chart in the first half of this year. And that really speaks to the strength of that business and shift. In terms of operating profit, just to talk in summed terms, what this really shows is the outcome of the last couple of slides I've just gone through, which is a strong step up, plus 40% like for like operating profit, which is 17,100,000. And you can see, which is the left of those green bars, 2,100,000, that's the removal of the drag of loss making businesses that we closed or sold or exited in some way in the prior year. And so you can see that the benefit of that is quite significant in our first half results.

17:13 And then if you look at the remainder, it's the things I've already talked about, but advertising is responsible for about two thirds of that step up of 5,000,000 and non advertising margin improvement is about a third. And then not to over labor the point, but I just want to say, therefore, that this is not an improvement in margin based on one offs, it's more systemic. And what you can see is that the three forty basis point improvement is about a range of measures, what we might call self help measures, but they are here for the future. They will enable us to operate more effectively into the future, whether that be our South African Cape Town business service hub, whether that be our building programme where we've looked at each of our buildings and thought about what space we needed, and we've had some opportunities to partially exit buildings or sublet floors, including the building that we're presenting from in Golden Square in Soho.

18:17 And we've also, as I said a couple of times, made that big step forwards in terms of our efficiency through this £10,000,000 programme. There's more to come, we think, and we're expecting in 2025 and beyond to look at our efficiency as a business, particularly around middle office activities, so not just back office, but some of our production capability. Cash has been a really strong story. You can see cash from trading, positive £16,200,000 a very strong conversion of operating profit to operating cash, and it exceeded our target. We have a target of 80% conversion and we achieved 98% conversion in the first half. There's always a bit of variability due to cyclical factors, but we were pleased with that performance.

19:04 In terms of capital, so we're quite a low capital business. You can see it on the chart, we spent about a million pounds in the first half. That's less than 1% of our revenue spent on capital projects. And I think there is more opportunity to optimise cash, whether that be working capital, so payment of receipts, or whether it be our global management of cash, because we've got a number of countries we operate in, 23 countries that we operate in, and we can look at how we manage our cash across those countries and regions. And then just finally, if you look at the cash generation of the group, we were plus £4,600,000 compared to the year end exit, so that's 55% up. And it would have been even higher if we hadn't been meeting some of those sort of one off put option settlements I've mentioned. In terms of capital allocation, how we're going to use our money.

19:58 This is a chart, you'll have seen it perhaps before if you're familiar with the story of M and C SAATCHI, because it is unchanged. We are prioritising organic investment in the business. And when we look at the first and second half, what does that mean? It means putting money into our issues business because it's growing, media, the growing areas of advertising like UAE, Europe and The US, but it also means investing in some of our creative capabilities. M and A, which is an important part of the strategy for the future, will be approached selectively. And what we want to say is it's likely to be bolt on in nature, and will be prudent in terms of our approach to leverage. So we won't want to over leverage the business, but as it says on the slide, we will be thoughtful about any spikes for more significant transactions.

20:54 And that we have the firepower to execute investment in this business. We've got a cash balance, 13,000,000. We have an RCF of £50,000,000 so our revolving facility with our three syndicate banks.

21:06 And then we also have an opportunity to extend that, what's called an accordion facility, with our three supportive banks should M and A opportunities or other opportunities arise. So we've got the firepower to execute our strategy. And that we are very focused on returning value for shareholders, whether that be capital or income. We have a plan around a sustainable and growing dividend, and that's expressed on the bottom of the chart. That's a dividend we pay at the year end, it's a final dividend. So in terms of outlook, we're very much in line with market expectations. Q3 performance to date has been solid. We're planning to continue to invest in the business, as I've described. And whilst much of the work has been done now around marginal businesses, loss makers and some of that business restructuring, in the second half of the year, we expect that to be materially completed.

22:02 So really, that means that we've established the foundation for the future business. Yes, we expect there to be continued macro volatility, and we are trading over tougher comparatives in half two, but we feel well equipped to navigate those waters because we've got a strong and diverse portfolio, We've got those ongoing efficiencies, and we have got a highly cash generative business, which will allow us to invest in the future. So I'm really thrilled to be part of the business, and it's an amazing and iconic brand, and the future for the business is one that we're very optimistic about. So thanks for your interest in listening, and I'll hand back over to Zaid. Thank you, Simon.

22:49 I'm going to give you a brief overview of the business, a little bit of insight on the strategy and the operations that gives you context to the results you've just heard. So I'll start by saying we as a business are here to create advantage for our clients in a world where marketing services have become incredibly complex. And our approach is founded on three core beliefs. Firstly, that simple solutions get noticed more. Secondly, that connected solutions provide better engagement with your target audience and thirdly, something we call future fearlessness, which means constant innovation is required in this market in order to create that advantage. I summarise those as being incisive, integrated and innovative.

23:35 But what's truly special about M and C SAATCHI goes well beyond that. I have had a long history as a client, more than three decades, and I can say with confidence that clients today face quite a dilemma between on the one hand partnering with the giant holdcos whose bureaucracy and creative ability can leave them feeling a little bit underwhelmed, let me say. And on the other hand, niche players who can be creatively very exciting, but they offer very narrow capabilities and they often represent a significant risk. At M and C SAATCHI, we are, if you like, just right, neither too big nor too small, sitting in what I call the Goldilocks zone. We have the creative flair and agility that clients desire, but that's coupled with a trusted brand and a global experience.

24:26 So it makes us a reliable partner with whom to deliver breakthrough work, that is a great place to play. The transformation journey we've been on is in service of that objective for clients. They come to us for creative solutions, and we've been reorganising so that we can deliver those in the most effective way. So we've shifted our focus in go to market to an agile regional first model. It's powered by the specialist expertise, I'll come on to explain the specialisms, and it builds on the strong client relationships that we have in market. So that enables cross sell and upsell opportunities. We're particularly strong in local and regional hero brands and challenger brands. That's enabled by a middle office, which has shared capabilities to ensure cost effective but very high quality solutions across the group.

25:18 And that in turn is supported with a back office of group wide shared services. And the shared services hub for IT, HR and finance is already operational in South Africa. It's that model which enables our high quality creative output across such a breadth of marketing services. And as I've talked to investors, I've often found that people ask, how do all those activities of the group fit together? So here on this slide, I've tried to explain that. We work with clients from the left hand side of this chart, which is the planning and strategy phase, through the middle, which is the execution and creation phase, through to the end, which is the measurement and evaluation phase. Our specialisms reflect that. There's a whole range of marketing services I've put some of the most significant on the chart but to call it simply, consulting is a specialism that acts as a trusted partner and advisor in areas like brand strategy, innovation and design.

26:21 Advertising then picks up and connects brands with their consumers, primarily through creating content in paid for channels. Passions and PR is the specialism that is primarily about owned and earned channels. And then media is our specialism, which is closer to sealing the deal, performance based aspects that are close to customer purchase. And this is a closed loop, so the work we do with clients to measure and evaluate helps drive better planning and execution and creation in future. We also have an issues specialism, and issues provides the full service that I've just described across all those capabilities, but it does it for a public sector client base with specific expertise.

27:09 So I'll delve into issues a little bit more later. I just wanted to have one more thought before I delve into the specialisms, and that's that all of the activity we do is now underpinned with our data stack, which we've democratised across the business. So those are technology solutions operating as a middle office. They're typically invented by M and C SAATCHI Consulting, but then M and C SAATCHI Intelligence is our middle office data function that brings them to all our businesses. There are solutions in there like our AI powered brand experience product, TXI, and every part of the group can now benefit from those. So we can serve existing clients, but we can also win clients with those data solutions.

27:56 Now, thinking of the portfolio as a whole, it's a very well balanced portfolio, it's diverse, and we're not overexposed to any one specialism or another. I would say that advertising is core to the proposition, not least because it's the shop window through many clients' first finders, but all the specialisms work together to fulfil a creative solution to the client brief. That does provide us with some natural resilience when the market can be volatile, and it also provides a progressive margin improvement as the higher margin non advertising businesses grow as a part of our mix. In each of the next few slides, I'm going to show you a case study on the right hand side and some commentary and top line results on the left hand side.

28:44 I'm not going to go into great detail. I'm happy to answer questions later. So firstly, advertising, which is 38% of revenue, is present in all of our markets. On the right hand side, I've highlighted award winning work that we did to influence the UN Plastic Treaty, which was providing a daily weather forecast of quite literally the amount of plastic falling from the sky in our rain. Example illustrates that this is no longer a business that is primarily delivered through just TV and posters. They still represent important channels, but our advertising plans are almost always multimedia. They are typically digital. They're based on data and insight. And those plans often provide the core brand or campaign idea that then fuels our other services and specialisms.

29:34 And that's why we've been strengthening the leadership of this group. We've appointed new leadership in The UK and The US. Just last week, our new Chief Creative Officers joined the business, and next month we'll have more talent as well. We do know that the macro picture for advertising is still challenging, particularly in markets that have low consumer confidence. However, as you've seen from our results, there are some encouraging signs. The consulting business, 14% of our business is about brand strategy, innovation, design, data solutions, as I've talked, and that is about delivering transformational growth for clients. The roster of clients is incredibly strong. You can see Toyota, Nike, Nestle, PepsiCo and the like.

30:21 And an example on the right hand side where we've helped Swisscom rejuvenate their brand and change how they engage with customers. Now we do know that the consulting sector has of course been challenging broadly, and therefore we're cautious on the market backdrop. But I would say the capabilities of this part of the business are very strong and relevant, and they underpin our data led approach.

30:44 Passions and PR is where we do owned and earned activity with clients. It's where the sports and entertainment proposition sits, and as I've said, we won Sports Industry Agency of the Year. These teams are the ones with their finger on the pulse of culture. That's everything from movies to music and fashion to football, and they do physical and social media activations that connect brands with those passions. We did that for the Euro football tournament here on the right. Passions and PR is now 16% of the business, and we've been deliberately reshaping that part of the business to improve profitability and get it match fit, pardon the pun, for further growth, new CEO Robin Clark arrives next month.

31:30 The outlook for 2024 for this part of the business is negatively affected by the impact of moving the PR business into this specialism, and it has a tough comparative base, but it's in a solid state.

31:44 Media represents 10% of our business and it operates almost exclusively in digital channels, principally mobile. Data is a very integral part of that offer, helping clients to understand their customers, but more importantly, to close the sale. So be that ride hailing, food delivery, the example on the right hand here is app downloads. I'm proud to say that business won campaigns global performance marketing agency of the year recently, and we're very encouraged by its recent momentum. But I would remain cautious on the market backdrop for 2024. As I've described, we then have a business that does all of those services, but it does those services with particular specialism and for specific verticals where that expertise is required, such as defence and diplomacy, or the example on the right hand side here, which is sensitive charity work for the Archwell Foundation.

32:39 Issues has been a really strong driver of our growth. It's now 22% of the business, and it's a resilient business with specialist expertise required. Let me just explain a little more, one extra slide on issues to talk about why it's able to do that. The steady revenue progression that you see on the left hand side of the chart is the result of over a ten year period developing this into an end to end service and broadening the addressable market for issues. It was originally focused on defence, diplomacy and development, but nowadays we do work on sustainability, on climate, on health, on human rights, a whole range of social issues. Our clients are a range of government departments, quasi government organisations and NGOs.

33:27 When we work with governments, it's via long term contractual frameworks. It's not allied to political parties and it allows us to support a multiplicity of different departments, and that provides some of the resilience that we've seen.

33:41 It gives the business a very strong base from which to grow from. Three examples on the right hand side for you so that you can understand the sort of things we do in that business. So we've worked with the US government to amplify the initiatives it has with the Honduran government and things like education and health, making radio podcasts for them. We've partnered with NATO on their initiative to get a younger generation involved in their activities in The US and The EU. That's a generation who didn't experience the Cold War and they want to reach out to, so we've helped them with that. And we've helped the UK Home Office build a network of civil society organisations to help counter extremism and build stronger communities. So that sort of marketing and communications work is a large and resilient market.

34:29 It's got some countercyclical aspects too, and therefore we think it's a very good complement in the portfolio. So just before we go to questions, let me just summarise what you've heard.

34:42 I believe we have a well positioned business. It's got a regional first agile operating model. We're in that just right Goldilocks zone in terms of the breadth of services we provide and the agility we've got. It's a very compelling brand proposition, the most famous brand in the world in advertising, and we have a transformed operating model. We believe there is significant value for shareholders through our growth opportunities, through operational leverage that Simon has talked about, and through strong cash generation to help us invest in the future. There is much still to do. My job is to make sure that we do it and deliver on it, but the journey is certainly well underway. I've summarised all of that in this chart, which is our investment case, but suffice to say we're focused on consistent delivery for now and creating a sustainable growth path just to continue to drive shareholder value.

35:40 I'm happy to leave that on the screen if you want to ask questions, although we might choose to take it off when we get into them. I'll open now for questions. I think I draw your attention to the fact that these can be put into the chat, so I'll get started. Fantastic, thank you very much indeed for the presentation. Have question here about having secured significant new client names and how we see those impacting revenue and earnings in the future. Look, this is a very diverse portfolio, and each piece of our business has a very diverse range of clients, so we're not overly dependent on one client or another. Of course, we're very proud to have some new names on the books, and brands such as JPMorgan Chase and IKEA are significant client wins.

36:29 But we're not in a position where we have such a focused client base in any one vertical or any one specialism that individual clients will have an effect. We are very confident of delivering our 2024 outlook in line with the market expectations. The next question is: Do you have plans to pursue M and A to strengthen business segments while balancing deferred considerations? Simon, do you want to take that? Yeah, of course. As we talked about on the capital allocation slide, what we're prioritising is organic investment in the business, and that's what we're seeing in 2024. So we've invested in the business in the first half and we'll accelerate that investment in the second half, and that's reflected in the numbers that the market is expecting us to deliver.

37:20 Organic investment is being prioritised, but of course, would expect us also to be thoughtful about where there may be M and A opportunities that may be able to accelerate the strategy. And just going back to what I said when we went through the capital allocation framework, we've described that as being bolt on because it is about specific regions or specific expertise or specific strategic initiatives that will help us to drive our overall business forwards. So we absolutely are in consideration of where M and A can play a part in our capital allocation. There's nothing to say now. But and then in terms of deferred consideration, clearly individual deals will be structured, any individual deals that are agreed will be structured in a way that we think is appropriate to support the growth of shareholder value, so that will always be front of mind for management.

38:13 Thank you, Simon. The next question online says: Can you discuss cross selling to bringing clients from one vertical to another? Yes, the reorganisation of the business around what we call a regional first model means that all of those activities are regionally under a single management, and therefore acting much more as an integrated team in how they win business, but also allowing us to transfer the many products and services we have across existing clients. So that's a cross sell opportunity, which we do think is a strong part of our future strategy. There's then a question that says, how much of a risk is it for potential or existing companies to go to, for example, Meta and Google directly for advertising campaigns, and how we fit into the digital value chain.

39:08 So I should say, firstly, both Meta and Google are clients of ours. We're very pleased with those relationships. It shows that this is a connected world, very symbiotic. The sort of campaigns that we do and specialise in are typically very sophisticated parts of advertising, and as things stand by the meta or Google do activity like that, we find it unlikely that they would do that. It's not easily automatable, and that scale allows us to have a platform to be able to do those things, which I think would be unlikely for others to directly compete with. A lot of our businesses I've described is across much broader than just advertising. So the work we do in issues in the public sector, or the work we do in consulting or in sport and entertainment is non advertising business. So I think we're a very broad portfolio, very well protected and defensive against any sort of market changes that emerge.

40:12 Right, I want to be conscious of people's time and not take more than is required. So I'm happy to wrap up here, and if you do have questions or if you have things that haven't been through and haven't been answered, you can of course get in contact with Investor Relations via our website and they will of course do their best to respond. Fantastic, thank you indeed for answering. I hope that's been helpful and look forward to speaking to you again someday soon. Thank you.