M Winkworth (LSE:WINK) — 2022 Results

0:01 Good afternoon, and welcome to the M WINKWORTH PLC investor presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted anytime by the q and a tab situated in the right hand corner of your screen. Just simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company will review your questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll, and I'd now like to hand you over to Dominic Aguis, CEO. Good afternoon, sir.

0:33 Afternoon, and hello to everyone. I'm Dominic Aguis. I'm CEO of WINKWORTH, and this is Andrew Nicol, CFO of WINKWORTH. And it's our pleasure to be here to talk through 2022 and the WINKWORTH business model as it sits today.

0:54 So a little bit of background. For those of you who aren't so familiar with the model, WINKWORTH is a long established brand, 1735, that was the first company to franchise in The UK in 1981. Since then, it's grown to a 102 franchised offices with the majority, 59, of those offices being in London. It grew initially from Knightsbridge outwards and has since grown into the country down to Exeter as far in the Southwest. Within the network, there are two offices that we own, and the rest are all independently owned and operated. The model works on the fact that every business are too independent and operated, and we provide a platform for that business to compete in the top three in its marketplace.

1:46 So the aspiration being that someone who's currently working for a corporate estate agency can set up their own business and have the same offering as they were used to when they were an employee to attract clients and provide them the best service. In return, we charge 8% of gross revenues with some additional fees, which equate to around 11% of the average franchise turnover.

2:16 So these are the key parts of that, I suppose, are that the business, by the nature of its London profile, that really is sort of what separates it out from from other franchise businesses. So it grew at a time when it was possible to open independent businesses across Central London and on a forward basis. And so it's very hard it'd be very hard to replicate the 59 offices that it has across London. That sort of defines its market positioning as a prime business and the locations it grows to. It grows to areas, and we grow to areas where which affiliate with London. So we will open an office, for example, Winchester, where lots of sellers in the Winchester market or surrounding areas are looking for a state and see with access to London buyers in order to sell their homes. So by being part of WINKWORTH, they will be able to appeal to these sellers and generate good business.

3:08 So I think the other thing to quickly say at the front end is that's the sort of platform. And then from our point of view, we grow we'd like to grow in three different ways. So we grow through new people coming to us who'd be working at competitor state agencies, whether it employees and setting up on their own. They take the shop in their name and the employee and the employees and launch it under our guidance with our brand and our support. Second way is is that we will approach existing estate and businesses that are looking to boost their market share or perhaps their profile and see if they would like to join us and plug into our database and system and set up a brand in order to to do so. And the third way, really, is is we are essential to us as a business, I suppose, is the importance of the individual. And so we're led people based business and led in decisions we make by the people we find.

4:04 And as a business, there are lots of opportunities. Very well, there's very talented operators out there, and they may not have the funding required to open their own business. So a new area of growth for us is where we may have an existing franchisee who may be looking to retire. And we're an old business from the '80 1981, so several maybe on that the the road to the golf course. Then we can introduce new talent and provide the funding for that talent to buy the business or, in these two occasions, buy the business and provide equity rewards for the talented operator achieving the goals we've jointly agreed. And then in due course, exit to that talented operator, sort of boosting the revenue from an existing business by introducing new energetic blood and increasing our share of the revenue in return.

5:01 Really on that note, that's a sort of broad bit about WINKWORTH, then over to the operational highlights from Andrew. Thanks very much, Dominic. So 2022 was in line with expectations. That was down on the exceptional 2021 year, but significantly up on 2019, the last normal, in quotes, pre pandemic year. In terms of the actual numbers for the year, network turnover dropped by 3% to 63,100,000. That was made up of $34,300,000 of sales revenue, down 12 on the previous year. And $28,700,000 of lettings revenue, that was up 11% on the previous year.

5:47 So the split came down towards a more normal 54 sales, 46 lettings. Traditionally, it's roughly, roughly fifty fifty, so heading back towards that sort of split. Our M WINKWORTH PLC revenue was flat at 9,310,000. The point to note on that is that the revenue generated by our owned offices went up by over 500,000. So there was some shrinkage in the franchising revenue, a little bit from the network reduction, primarily, though, on our ancillary services that we offer through franchising business where COVID caught up with some of our longer established areas, areas like we have a China desk that the pipeline that it relies on dried up during COVID. It's now building that back up again, but that impacted last year quite significantly.

6:51 The profit before tax was 2,470,000. We have 5,250,000 in the bank, and we declared in the year ordinary dividends of 11 p. To put it into, as I say, a a more realistic context and a comparison with 2019, 2022 versus 2019, revenue was up by 45%. PBT was up by 51%, and cash was up by 64%. So we think 2022 was a good performance.

7:30 So just as a breakdown on the next slide, the different revenue in the different parts of our business. We sort of look at our business in broadly three areas, operating slightly differently, different dynamics behind them. So so Central London, we're international. Out of London, sort of domestic driven city living and countries whereas outside of London. I suppose no surprise. Well, we've let's talk a little bit about the market. Obviously, we've come off as a tremendous boom post pandemic fueled by stamp duty rises, stamp duty cuts, holidays, and a desire to move to larger purposes with perhaps with home offices. So last year was really the year that that came to to an end as cost of finance increased.

8:19 Despite that, you can see the revenue versus 2019 was a long way ahead. In terms of versus 2021, you can see that slightly further down the country in large part, that's because, obviously, the main part of the boom was the country as everyone rushed to leave cities. Central London actually was up, and that's due to the fact that it didn't really get the post pandemic boom as international travel was prohibited. And so it was last to wake up post post the pandemic and lockdowns. And as you can see, it is therefore sort of the least far far ahead of 2019. And so we would expect I suppose the point to make make is we would expect this to mean that it has a bit more to run-in terms of growth. And certainly, at the moment, it is the most active part of the three regions we define.

9:14 So looking on the next slide, we look at the all important lettings part of our business and how that operated. Lettings has been incredibly busy since, again, since since sort of the pandemic. There's been a huge amount of movement initiative once they were they were and renewed, and then everyone, you know, large part of people moved out of the cities, and then large number of people moved back into the cities. And that has made for an incredibly active market. And combined with a reduction in supply, some landlords have used us a more positive market to sell off their investments in the face of tax changes that have made them less profitable meant that there'd be rapid price rises, rental price rises.

10:00 So really, you can see the different different areas and the growth which you know, the long term trend for us of lettings is around six to 8% growth a year since the early two thousands. You can see that, currently, it is trending above that. I think it will settle down in due course, a long term trend. It is above that in the sort of lettings. It always catches up. So if it's quite a few months in a year, people still need to move. It's a liquid market, and I think what we're seeing is sort of that movement of people around the country and from places where they had stayed put causing sort of overperformance, and it remains a very busy part of our business this year. So then that leads me on to the breakdown of the business as a sales and lettings business.

10:48 Hope you're still with me. There you go. So on the next slide, as a sales and listings business, you can see we're fairly evenly divided, which is fantastic. So, you know, if one goes down, then the other generally goes up as as people always need somewhere to live. You can see that its sales has been in the ascendancy of late, but that wasn't the case now. It was barely the case in wasn't the case in 2019. So it makes it a sort of fantastic I suppose it makes a fantastic business defensively. It means you benefit from, you know, a sort of super profit, if you like, in a boom market as you saw in 2021. And when sales comes off, we see lettings go up, and and that provides a hedge, which protects us as business and allows us as a solid platform to grow from.

11:37 And the income by area, really, this is to say the three areas we look at. The interesting thing to note here is, you know, obviously, we do I suppose we are older in London and more established, and therefore a large proportion of our revenue comes from London. Historically, Central London was a larger part of it. Central London has been in the doldrums a bit since the Brexit vote and perhaps sort of 2014 stamp duty, in fact. So that was traditionally a 20% part of our revenue, and we would expect that to move back towards that share of revenue as it sort of comes as Brexit's in the rearview mirror and international travel is back upon us and 50 some more some news will surprise the upside on The UK.

12:27 So just on the next slide, looking at the applicants. Obviously, just a breakdown to give everyone an idea of how the years compared over the last few years. Obviously, talking about 2019 is the last normal year before we were disrupted by, by the pandemic and and various other influences. So you can see that it was still, a very strong year. I think it's fair to say that it was, we were pursuing a gentle landing as cost of finance increased, and it remained very busy, until the, mini budget in the autumn, which, caused everyone to go for, an early Christmas. However, I think the market environment has been sort of settled back to that more gentle trajectory, I'd suggest, and activity has improved.

13:14 On the listing side, again, this just reflects the sort of how busy it has been of late.

13:22 Moving to the next slide. This shows our dividend declarations for each year going back to 2012. And what I like about it is the progressive nature. We were one of the few companies that continue to pay our corporate dividends during the lockdown. And we would look going forwards to continue paying progressive dividends, providing the trading conditions warranted it. So then we're just going to talk a little bit about, from the next slide, the WINKWORTH brand. Really, I suppose when we just talk about the WINKWORTH brand, so a bit further on, next slide on, actually.

14:08 Then we're just going to say things we're doing. We're an old established business. We have a big sort of high street footprint, and that is the reason why people know us. And when we serve you then, it is the main reason people know us because of that. We're on their local high street. That said, we're not we are investing in other areas. So this is part of the kind of ongoing maintenance and evolution of the business. Google is a big driver of leads in people search searches through that and then choose their estate agent. If you type the estate agent in most areas that we cover, so you're going through a few such as the estate agent in Fulham or estate agent in Islington, you know, we will come out in the top three on the search results. And, actually, we've improved that, which is good. So plus 86 of our offices came out in the top three in 2021, 90 now come out in the top three. So we continue to invest in that and have great success, and that delivers a a large number of leads to us and to our franchisees, most importantly. I think the website delivers 25% of all valuations that the franchisees receive.

15:11 And then further down, we talk about properties for sales and also search term, and you can you can see the trend there as well. Albeit small, it's improving, and and and we're fairly strong on the on our Google presence. Clearly, leads on to social media, which is the new channel that we need to invest in and develop as a business. We have, in total, across our network, eighty eighty four thousand followers on Instagram. We where it says reach in, we've changed our strategy to a sort of brand awareness approach towards our social media, and that's meant that our reach has increased. When they say reach has increased, that's increased by 80,000 people a month. And, hopefully, we will continue to grow that with some ongoing investment ensuring the business is competitive and enables our franchisees to appear in the top three of their respective markets.

16:07 So on the next slide, we talk a bit more about, let's say, WINKWORTH brand. These are some metrics that are provided by an external company, research company called twenty EA, who did a lot of information on the estate and the industry. So, really, what it shows is that in the area we cover, our addressable area, we sell more than no one else, which is fantastic

16:34 and exchange more than anyone else. The a bit below is perhaps more pleasing. Clearly, we have our unique geography, but the one that's below show, hopefully, that we're doing a good job out of the sort of 10 best agents or highest ranking agents in the areas we cover. We have the lowest withdrawal rate. So our clients generally stick with us and choose to once they're instructed, they're happy, hopefully, go through to sell their property, which the next graph shows in the fastest time amongst our peers. So, hopefully, that shows that the business, the franchisees running their own businesses are, working, working well with their clients and achieving good outcomes.

17:26 So then next, just moving on to the franchising outlook, which, is just there. This gives you a sort of picture towards know of gains and losses over the last six years and where we've grown. Last year, we had, unfortunately, several fell through towards the end amidst the mini budget, we call it chaos, but, yes, mini budget issues. The but we did open two, which is fantastic. We've these were actually formed a category of of offices that we help support talented existing franchisees acquire to grow their local networks and the WINKWORTH local network. So

18:13 Crediton is an extension of the extra franchisee who bought Tiverton the previous year. It's a nice network there. And Bristol is a place called Bishopstone in Bristol, which is for with our Bath franchisee. And, again, these were lettings portfolios that were part bank funded, part us funded that kind of create new points of growth or develop existing points of growth.

18:43 Going forward, we have a pipeline around five, some in London, sort of half with three in the country and two in London to give you a flavor. There are they do have variable time frames. There's lots of things, extension loans from banks, etcetera, take variable times these days, but I think they will start to to feed through to keep the forward

19:06 momentum. There is we we sold one office last year. This is part of, I suppose, a very important part of our business. We are very long established and have very very successful and valuable individual businesses within us. We do have a succession job to to manage to ensure that, you know, the we continue to regenerate and where we can introduce new blood as we talked about there, you know, we can find that these offices will increase their revenue significantly. So, actually,

19:43 where we can resell an office, we could the effect could be the same as opening two or three new offices, particularly in London where there's a higher potential revenue per outlet. So by maximizing the assets in London, we're doing a good job of growing our revenue as well as opening new sites in new locations. So that leads me on to the owned off owned businesses slide. And I sort of mentioned this a bit at the beginning, and I suppose, hopefully, it was clear. I where we where we sort of evolved to as a business is we understand that there are we want to go forward and open new locations, but it's not all about numbers of offices. It's about quality and making sure that the offices we have and the branches we have are as good as possible in reaching their potential. And in certain locations, we use the data industry data we have to

20:47 hopefully, that's yeah. The industry data we have to look at where perhaps there is a we're not performing to our potential. So there, you know, we were prepared to buy. We have the right person in hand prepared to buy the business and put that person in, and just changing the person can make a dramatic difference. I mean, one of these businesses was doing a 250,000 revenue turnover and did 1,800,000 last year, sort of four years later. So and in the course of that, the sort of talented operator agent received shares for reward, which is a great appeal, hopefully, for someone to have some security and have some equity or skin in the game. So it's sort of hybrid between the franchise model and wholly ownership. So we're staying true to our beliefs in the sort of power of the individual and the importance of them and rewards for them and their security and not trying to compete on a sort of like for like basis with networked as wholly owned estate agency chains.

21:48 It's more of a sort of partnership model. But, you know, we, I suppose, take home a greater share of the of the spoils, and it's quite a good so it helps move our revenue and profits forward. We have a second one that is evolving and is growing and is currently moved up to currently trading, I think, at second in its market in terms of sales agreed this year. So, hopefully, that will start to generate revenue. First one is at maturity. And then we've also launched eighteen months ago, two years ago, a commercial business. So, again, following the the sort of belief in the individual, we've sort of long long known to me, who operate who runs and has set up and run previous commercial development investment businesses. Really, these are focused on mixed use properties or commercial properties and selling selling them or and then then being developed to be sold as residential units.

22:51 It also involves leasing your office space and letting of shop retail space. So that's and that's been growing pretty successfully. There's obviously a huge amount that can come more to come out of it. It's a very big area for us and something that's been missing for many, many years. But, obviously, there are some very large firms that one day one one would like to get close to. That also leads us into the opportunity this year to spin into a new homes business, which, we've sort of recruited for, to sell the products of the commercial development investments business as well as other new developments that are built. And that would work in partnership with with our local franchisees.

23:39 So they both get an opportunity to sell development. A specialist area, they haven't been able to obtain those instructions without a specialist department in the middle, and so, hopefully, it's beneficial to all. And, again, it's just another way it's it's it should work in synergy with the network and create new revenue streams for for WINKWORTH PLC. On the digital side moving on, we actually have one of the longest established websites. WINKWORTH was one of the first not the first agency to set up a website to help its business. We've been working on WINKWORTH digital for a number of years, and we're starting to see the real, real benefits of that long term thinking and the long term investment.

24:32 What we're able to do and what we're doing in the last couple of years is building on a decision we made three years ago to go to a very powerful CRM platform that comes with a lot of out of the box functionality that enables us to take our understanding of our website, how it works, etcetera, to a completely different level. This slide is an encapsulation of the vision about where we want to take that, understanding data, how we can use data, both to improve the customer's experience in dealing with us, make that as smooth as possible, and the journey as sort of intuitive as possible, and also to help the offices and ourselves as franchisee franchisor to understand the behaviors of of of clients, how they're interacting with the website, what's working, what's not working, so the resources can be appropriately focused.

25:33 The slide was put together by the data firm that we've been working with. They have a sitting between data users and data experts at the moment, and it's our intention to get to become data leaders in three to five years' time. Just to give, moving on to the next slide, a practical understanding of what that actually means, these are some dashboards that we've put together with working with a a team of some of the more tech savvy managers in in in the offices that looks at the performance of their particular offices. This is taking the the website data.

26:18 And at a glance, you can see in your area which properties are really popular, which pages are being visited on the website, etcetera. So it gives you a real feeling for for what's going on. And clearly, the franchisor level, we can take a a a more aggregated view of that. I will be working with that group of managers to develop a tool and continue developing a tool that will provide real benefit to them. I mean, clearly, it's an area that we can invest a huge amount of money in. We are trying conservative about it, and we will take things one step at a time, very, very conscious of the need to deliver a valuable product for it.

27:06 One of the key things that I think those of you who were up listening to the presentation last time would know about was our idea of of of cradle to grave. These dashboards are based very much on information coming from our website. What we're working on at the moment, what we just kicked off is a project looking at the data side of things so that we can integrate our back end CRM system. So, actually, we can see once they are joined up and once that join works well, how a lead coming into the website ultimately, hopefully, ends up transacting with WINKWORTH selling a house or or letting letting a property.

27:53 That's sort of the the the franchisee office perspective and and the sorts resources. Moving on to the next slide. It's a this slide looks at the number of leads that the website has generated for the business over the last few years. And it's shown is is a step change since we we changed platforms and and since the pandemic. So last year, we had 4,100,000 visitors to to the WINKWORTH website, averaging about 350,000 a month. The year before, it was 5,400,000. So some big numbers of visitors to the site. What we're very pleased about is that in 2022, those leads or those those visits generated 70,000 leads. So that's evaluations, hearings and inquiries.

28:49 A conversion rate of 1.7%, which is very high with, as I say, pleased with that. And what it means is that even if the numbers are dropping, that the people who are engaging are engaging much, much more seriously. Good. So really just in in summary, looking back at the year and and 2023 and beyond, here is the year it's actually a very strong year for the market. It was the year this is the boom came to the end of the post pandemic boom, but lettings remained very strong. And this sort of some of the doomsayers were proved, I'd say, wrong, and that the more optimistic outlook was proven to be the course that's the property market has trodden.

29:38 We're a people led business, and we grow with initiatives with the right people. And we have an element of caution as a business as we look to maintain this dividend and progressive dividend going forward. I think we're quite well placed at the moment with a sort of good split between sales and lettings, good individuals in place, the early stages of growth in their businesses, and opportunities to open new offices for further revenue growth going forward. So I think that's that's us really as a presentation. I suppose it's time to turn to to the questions and see if we can answer those. Dominic, Andrew, thank you very much for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the Q and A tab, which is situated on the top right hand corner of the screen. But just while Dominic and Andrew take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I'd like to remind you that recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published q and a can be accessed via your investor dashboard.

30:43 As you can see, we've received a number of questions throughout today's presentation. Dominic and Andrew, I could just ask you to read out those questions and give responses where it's appropriate to do so, I'll pick up from you both at the end. Sorry. Had a small technical glitch there. Is that the time to go through the questions now? Yes, sir. It certainly is. Perfect. Good. Okay. Right. My screen blanked on me. So the first question, I'm very pleased to read it. So pleasing to see that the various regional hubs are performing well. The new branch offices in Norwich have hit the ground running with very healthy inventories.

31:29 Same goes with Bournemouth two and steady progress Devon. Fantastic. Yes. Those are three areas we have identified as successful local networks that we wanna continue to invest in to grow at a rate that the franchisees are happy to grow, I mean, I suppose with an element of not overstretching themselves, but but it's going well and creating strong brand presence in those regions. The next question is from Sam. What is your view on the rentals and lettings market over the next twelve months? I think it's there's an awful lot going on in lettings, and, hopefully, I conveyed rentals and lettings market. And I think the I see I think my view is is that it's not there's not some we're not sustainable last year, and the activity is not sustainable in the lettings market. It was not good for anyone, really.

32:23 The you know, we were seeing 40 people queuing up to see a flat, which yeah. And therefore, prices going up dramatically as well. I think largely, you there has been a sell off because of government the the direct perceived direction of travel of the government versus the individual landlord. I think that's probably a longer term challenge in the next twelve months. The market will remain very busy. There is a lot of demand, and, the supply hasn't grown, for several years. So I think we will see it cool in last year, and, actually, our applicants so far are showing a drop off from q one twenty twenty two, but still incredibly busy.

33:08 I hope that covers that. So I suppose next question would be, could you explain how the financial model works with franchisees? I suppose that's I just hope I can get the right answer for you there. It works on the basis of 8% of their gross revenue is paid to us for the platform and services we provide and brand and database. And they in return, they had hit the shop in their own name. They employ their own employees. It is their local business, to operate within our guidelines. The outcome in terms of their turnover and profitability does vary, obviously, hugely dependent on area and performance, and so it's hard to hard to answer on.

33:58 But, yes, I think, hopefully, that that covers that. And then so next question, exactly. Of the house buyers in 2022, what is the split UK national and foreign buyers? Buyers from Hong Kong increased significantly in the last few years. Actually, yes, there has been increase this year recently in Central London. And say that's why we sort of have three areas. Central London, we see as the international market, Outer London as a sort of domestic market. And then I think outside of there, you're looking at, you know, classic university towns like Bath where foreign investment comes in to student accommodation. So I don't think there's The UK has not had this got the same international demand as it had pre 2016 at the moment. It has improved, and there's been a certain amount of American buyers out there.

34:55 And Central London properties, especially houses, is incredibly popular. The Hong Kong buyers well, mean, the travel's been an absolute nightmare for for several years. So with the continent's ending, that hopefully is all all returning. The it's you know, the the Hong Kong buyers, if you have British national overseas passport, were perhaps people coming, needing quickly to rent rather than buy initially, certainly. And but there has always been a strong contingent Hong Kong buyers, and I think that will will remain the case. But I would say there's not been a dramatic increase, but there is an increase. So Maynard Maynard, please. Can you say this one, Don? Yes. Perfect. Andrew, over to Andrew. So Maynard's asked, can management talk a little bit about sales, which increased during the year as revenue declined?

35:45 What the cost of sales consist of? And what's the typical gross margin for the commission subscription side of the business and the conventional state agency side? So if I start that answer, I'm sure Dominic will will jump in. On the cost of sales side, that went up by 300,000 in the year. A combination of the owned offices as they were growing and becoming more established, cost of sales increasing there. And in the franchising side of the business, we renewed the franchises for 19 offices last year, so there were some legal fees associated with those franchise renewals and, you know, some general cost increases around our IT services, our marketing internal services, all of which are included within cost of sales.

36:47 I suppose then just jump in there. The assisted explained assisted acquisition support. Good point. So assisted acquisition support is where a franchisee of ours identifies a listings portfolio and would like to buy it, and we will lend them money or well, there's a there's a blend of formulas we use. So one part of the formula is lending money at commercial interest rate so that they can then use that money to buy the portfolio. But that is blended with the fact that we do recognize the 8% that has been brought into the network. So we will pay, say, three times the 8% of the revenue of the target company as a goodwill payment to the franchisee to acquire the new business. So we're supporting them, in some cases, with a part loan, part goodwill payment, and then return a buying a listings portfolio or another estate agency business that they're rebranding to become WINKWORTH. Beauty is we also know and trust them and work with the ones that we know have the talent and so feel it's a good way to grow the business. It used to be called goodwill.

38:03 I'm old enough to to remember it as goodwill before the name was changed. And the the the real attraction from our point of view is, as Dominic was saying, we have a methodology that sort of calculates it at three times the 8% to get values. So we supported we gave about 300,000 last year offices in Maida Vale, Crediton, and Bishopstone in Bristol. We write that goodwill off over ten years. So it's it's in there for a long term relationship with Winker to actually build that. So I just see David H. How will you integrate AI to help grow the quality of service to clients?

38:54 It's something that we've been looking at, David, for for some time. We have had chat facilities up on the website again for for some time. Some offices really, really like it. Some clients really, really like it. Others don't and and want the flexibility to to actually be able to talk to people and and individuals. I I think think its its use will increase inevitably over the years. But at the moment, it's quite slow, and we wouldn't want to lose the personal touch that are so area experts in the relevant franchise offices provide. So another question. I think it might be time for the last question, actually.

39:46 So any international expansion plans? No. This is is the honest answer to that. Never say never. And we are led by, you know, people and talent and opportunities always and are open minded to all things. But, you know, we have a lot to focus on in The UK. It's where it all fits neatly, and we add a lot of value. And we, I suppose, focusing on that, I think, is our priority. We feel could you could get distracted by the bright lights of the international property scene. Dominic, Andrew, thank you very much for that. I think you have addressed those questions you can from investors. And of course, the company will review all questions submitted today and will publish those responses on the Investor Meet company platform.

40:36 But just before redirecting investors to provide you with their feedback, particularly important to the company, Dominic, could I just ask you for a few closing comments? I think, really, as a as a business, we are a very simple business, you know, a sales and lettings business. We have low fixed costs. We have a we desire to grow, but we grow cautiously whilst respecting the dividend our shareholders expect and looking forward to meet and look to move that forward by working with talented operators to grow the revenues of the business and thank those of you that are shareholders of doing so. Dominic, Andrew, thanks once again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations?

41:29 This only take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure it'll be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of M WINKWORTH PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all.