Kooth (LSE:KOO) — Investing in the future of mental healthcare

0:01 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the KOOTH PLC Investor Presentation. At any time via the q and a tab that's just situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Please just simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all of the questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I would like to submit

0:32 the following poll. And if you could give that your kind attention, I'm sure that would be most appreciated by the company. And I'd now like to hand you over to CEO, Tim Barker. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for that introduction, Jake. Hi, everyone. A real pleasure for us to walk you through an introduction into KOOTH. And today, we've announced our training update so we can give you a fresh insight into the world of of health tech. So perhaps, let's just start by framing the problem that we're focused on. A $6,000,000,000,000 global crisis in mental health. One of the biggest challenges of our time. In fact, there are not enough therapists on the planet to deal with the level of demand that there now is. And so in order to tackle this, we need a transformation in how digital can support every individual's mental health.

1:22 Traditionally, the health care system is focused on treatment. You are prescribed support after being diagnosed with a condition. You sit on a waiting list. You go to a place to get support. In order to tackle the magnitude of this challenge, we need to stop people needing that level of support. And the answer to that is to provide early intervention and rapid intervention to support individuals at that first moment when things start to go wrong and to tackle that in a very person centric way, to make it open access so there's no barriers to getting support, to provide you with support rapidly that that is efficient and effective.

2:08 And the benefit of digital is you can make this universally accessible across a population. And that's what we do. KOOTH is a pioneer in digital mental health care. We were founded in 2001 in Greater Manchester. And from those early days, we've grown and helped transform digital mental health care in The UK. We're now over 400 employees with a service that is accessible to over 15,000,000 people across the country. Our biggest customer is the NHS. And in providing that, as you can see on the map on the left, our services on the path to becoming a universally accessible service across the country.

2:55 Where we got started is supporting children and young people, CYPs as they're known in our industry, 10 25 year olds. And one key reason for that is you is if you wanna help tackle this crisis, you need to start supporting people at their young age when seventy five percent of all mental health issues formed. We're the only service accredited by the industry body for counseling and psychotherapy, the BACP, across The UK, and we've got an abundance of research papers and evidence that proves the efficacy of our service. How it works is we provide a open access service. That means you do not need to go to a GP or get a referral from a health care service. There's no barrier to access. You can sign up.

3:43 When signing up, it's both a confidential service and when you start using the service, an anonymous one because there is a stigma about asking for help, which we help address. We give people choice so they're empowered. They're not prescribed. They're they can choose what kind of support is beneficial for them. So they can get support through the content and activities we provide, so the self therapy. They can access a thriving community where they can get help from others that have been in similar position to themselves. And with one click, they can access professional support through our platform, all delivered as a live chat service similar to DM ing someone on WhatsApp. So that means it's really con convenient, confidential.

4:29 We do this in a very safe way.

4:31 So every piece of content that people post is reviewed by our moderation team to ensure that it's appropriate and safe, and we integrate with health care systems. We're not a digital island. We refer people along or into KOOTH from other services as needed.

4:48 Early intervention, by the way, doesn't just mean people that are dealing with very mild issues. More than eighty percent of individuals that come to KOOTH would be marked by a assessment as a moderate or severe level of acuity, and over half of people that we see are struggling with suicidal thoughts or self harm. So we are seeing and holding people that otherwise may be sitting on those waiting lists, going into a and e, getting acute support from the NHS. So by supporting them online, holding them, and helping them in our service, we also have a great story around health economics. Every pound spent on KOOTH in The UK saves the health care system £3.14.

5:34 And in doing so, one of the incredible things about our service is when you open it up for all, you can observe and see what kind of support people want. The traditional offer of mental health support is what's constructed an ongoing therapy where you might see a counselor every week for the next six to twelve weeks. Yet only 5% of our users opt or need that level of support. 95% get the support through the community, the content, or messaging our practitioners ordering, drop in chats, single session therapy as we call it. And as part of that, we developed over many years therapeutic outcomes that really demonstrate the impact of what we do. In effect, 70% or more of people that engage with our our platform show an improvement.

6:28 Great. Thanks, Tim. So just briefly taking a look at our, business model. As Tim mentioned earlier on, our service is completely free at the point of use for the end user, be it a young person or an adult. But we will typically contract with a region or a corporate initially on a twelve month contract. It's it's very much a pilot project. With over 25,000,000 data points within KOOTH, we can, at the outset, accurately model what we think use of the service will be in that first twelve month period, and that allows us to, negotiate and agree a fee with the client. Our first year fee is typically in the region of a 125 to a £150,000. And that'll be based on, you know, the age range we'll be covering, the demographic, whether it's an urban area versus a rural area, perhaps looking at, you know, the usage amongst ethnic minorities in that particular.

7:25 So our intention then is to mobilize the contract. At the start of the contract, we have our engagement staff who are essentially our feet on the ground across the country, and they will go into schools, doctor surgeries, youth clubs, etcetera, to provide the service predominantly to young people, encouraging them to, excuse me, to register for the service.

7:51 And we'll also supplement that with some specifically targeted social media campaigns. And the intention is very much to increase usage of the service. So, you know, perhaps one in 30 across that particular region will be using the service to start with. And as I said, you know, the intention is to get more and more people using the service, perhaps also through word-of-mouth. And that enables us, at the end of the pilot period to, have a fresh discussion with the clients given the additional usage. We may also add a new age group. So we might be looking after the 10 to 18 year old age group initially. We might add the 19 to 25 year old age group to that as well. Those those factors allow us to expand the contract and to potentially get an uplift in the fee value of the contract after the initial initial pilot period is over. Around 50 to 60% of our contracts expand at the time of renewal.

8:47 A good example of that is is the next slide too if you just flip it over. This this was a a client, one one particular CCG within the NHS that we initially contracted with back in 2004. And over the last five or six years, the we've seen some quite dramatic growth in the value of that contract as other CCGs regions, surrounding regions then came into the fold. We went from the 10 to 18 year old age group. We had 19 to 25 year olds. And last year, early last year, we were able to add adults across that region as well. So we're looking after more than 2,000,000 people in that particular region. And as you can see, our revenue growth has averaged around 32% over the last five, six years.

9:36 So looking at the growth pillars that we have, given the huge amount of demand that there is for mental health support, we really focus our efforts in four areas. Where we got started supporting children and young people as up to age 25, primarily selling through to the NHS, which in itself is an £85 million pound a year market for us to really scale up and support the level of need that we see. Then also supporting adults, so providing that support for the older age groups. So, again, early intervention support. We've got a business unit focused on selling into the workforce, which we'll talk more about, which we estimate is a 150,000,000 a year business in The UK alone, and internationally with our main focus right now on being an expansion into The US. And, again, we'll add some more color to that in a second.

10:30 So talking about The US, to give you a bit of market context, look, in the last year, there's been a huge shift in the recognition that there is a youth mental health crisis. It started with The US surgeon general issuing an urgent call for action in December 2021. It featured it as one of the headlines in Biden's first state of the union. And then by summer last year, we started to see both a federal level and a state level increase funding into mental health care. In total last year, at least $6,000,000,000 has been allocated to tackle youth mental health crisis. And, of course, KOOTH's got an incredible story and calling card there.

11:15 We've got two decades of operation experience, a huge amount of evidence, and scale that we already operate at. And so that calling card has really been a great door opener into states that are investing in tackling the youth mental health crisis. In October, we signed a contract with the state of Pennsylvania for a one year pilot to roll out KOOTH to to a pilot population of up to a 150,000 school students in 30 school districts, with the objectives being to improve access to mental health support and by focusing on early intervention, reduce the need for that more acute treatment downstream care as we call it.

12:00 We are optimistic about being successful on this pilot. And in doing so, there is clearly an opportunity to expand further within Pennsylvania, plus build a blueprint for other states so that they can apply this in their locality. Great. Thanks, Tim. So as Tim mentioned, we issued a trading update this morning. We We also have the half one numbers here, which are probably a little bit stale given that we've gone past the year end, and we'll be announcing full year results at at the end of March and early April. But perhaps some of the highlights, our gross margins are in the region of 65 to 70%, and direct costs are predominantly the cost of our counselors.

12:45 We employ directly all of our counselors. We're not running any sort of zero hours contracts or contractor type arrangements. That means that we can be responsible for their training, audit, safeguarding procedures. And, excuse me, and and and that's given us, let's say, a gross margin around 65 to 70%, which we think is pretty much industry leading. Revenue is we've always been very focused on the quality of our revenue. Around 95% of our revenue is recurring. That's from contracts of twelve months or longer. We announced this morning that we expect revenue to be within market expectations. That range, as you can see there, is 19,600,000 to 20,200,000.

13:32 Cash on the balance sheet at the end of the year was 8,500,000, and that cash is sufficient to give us a runway for our growth plans, long term investment within the business to get the business through to sort of breakeven from a cash flow perspective given our investments as well as from, yeah, from a profitability perspective. So just to touch on the other growth pillars and services that we provide. About three years ago, when we expanded our service from children and young people to adults, again, really providing a missing piece in the jigsaw puzzle, individuals that need support but are not a sufficient level of need where they would qualify for NHS services such as talking therapies.

14:24 And it's estimated that there's 8,000,000 people across the country that would benefit from additional support but are unable to get it. So today, our service is accessible to more than 7,000,000 people across The UK as adults. And in 2022, we rolled out eight new, what we call, whole population contracts where we're supporting a whole region. So from Devon through to Manchester, Norfolk and Warwickshire. How people hear about QUT is quite different or Quell, as we call it in this context. Many of them may find us online or be recommended to us through a GP, for example, a health care professional. And this is really our priority focus to continue to expand in regions, building often on the success that we've had in supporting people up to age 25.

15:12 And a big part of the NHS' focus and priority as it has recently reorganized into what's known as ICS', integrated care systems, is they have a responsibility and a focus on population health. And that means providing support to those that might be underserved. Ethnic minority groups, for example, LGBT groups maybe are less likely to use established services. So a real focus on making sure that we can reach those seldom heard groups, provide support across a whole population. Added to that, we continue to grow our core service to support children and young people. Our service is accessible to more than 60% of The UK's ten to twenty five year olds, and we will be providing an update in our annual reports, no doubt, on coloring this map in with a few more areas where we're available.

16:12 But in some areas, our usage is now as high as one in seven of the population, on average, around one in 33 of the population. Think of it as one child in every classroom using our service. To support this, our own commercial team last year reorganized to sup really support the reorganized NHS, which moved from a 135 clinical commissioning groups to 42 ICSs, meaning that we can support larger regions for our current team. Finally, we have a team focused on selling into workforces and and supporting employees. Now the corporate market for mental health is quite fragmented. Everything from meditation apps through to medical insurance are available.

17:02 And so the niche that we're focusing on are the folks that we shared from cloud for during COVID, frontline workers and key workers. They represent a third of the entire UK workforce, and they often work in stretched, stretched roles on the frontline. We also support charities that support those workers as well. And so we have got a team focused on selling into these regions where focusing on ambulance services, for example, at the moment and emergency services. And our offer to them is is really in three parts. Firstly, we can benchmark the mental health of their company and provide them with some practical recommendations from our team of clinical psychologists of actions they could take to improve their workforce well-being.

17:52 Secondly, we can provide proactive access and support to every employee for an issue no matter how small or large without barriers and confidentially as well, which is very important. And finally, we can provide back to the organization anonymous insights so they can understand the trends that there are within the workforce, the issues that there may be so they can improve their strategy for employee well-being.

18:20 In terms of where we're going, our vision for the future and a key reason why we IPOs was to give us fuel in the tank to enable us to really build over the next few years our technology vision is to deliver personalized mental health support at scale to the population. In order to do that, we've got an incredible dataset, one of the world's largest mental health datasets, where we can then, from that, identify what types of support might be beneficial to you based on what how has it has helped people similar to yourself. So to some degree, taking inspiration from Netflix that to have a highly personalized experience that's both engaging and also effective.

19:10 And to get there and in getting there, we really wanna make an impact in three key areas. Firstly, scaling the service. So we're already a trusted partner with the NHS for over many years and a service that has a growing footprint in The UK and now in The US. Outcomes, both therapeutic and economic outcomes, are key to in providing the scale effectively. And finally, economics to do this at a an increasing economic advantage. So improving health economics, improving and reducing the cost of care by using things like AI to match people to the kind of content or support that might be beneficial to them.

19:59 We will, however, of course, be a human powered service as well. The support that our practitioners give, the act of counseling is a very human therapeutic one, and one that we think by us building a service where technology and people work together to support people's mental health is really a critical and compelling combination that we can use to support the nation and scale up internationally. With that, that concludes the presentation. We're just gonna pause. I'm gonna hand this back, and we're gonna then go through any questions that you may have for us. Tim, that's great. And Sanjay as well, thank you very much indeed for your presentation this afternoon. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the Q and A tab that's situated on the top right hand corner of your screen. But just while the team take a few moments to review those questions that were submitted already, I would like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published q and a can be accessed via your investor dashboard.

21:05 Sanjay, Tim, we did receive a number of pre submitted questions ahead of today's event. And as you can see there in the q and a tab, we have also received a number questions throughout your presentation this afternoon as well. So firstly, thank you to all of those on the call for taking the time to submit their questions. And, Tim, Sanjay, if I could just hand back to you to make your way through there and just respond to those where it's appropriate to do so, and then I'll pick up from you at the end. Thank you. Perfect. Thanks for that. So let's start with a question from Sam. Can you expand on the scale of the opportunity for the company in The US and how you look to achieve a significant footprint here? So maybe a few key points here. Firstly, our focus in The US is exclusively on youth mental health crisis, and this is an area that's been underinvested in from a health tech perspective in The US.

21:55 Most of the startups and organizations there are focused on adult mental health. It also is the key area where we've got world leading expertise. Our focus there is primarily right now focused on the opportunity in hand, which is to provide our service selling into state level government to support an entire population. The interesting thing is that slide that I showed about the the the shift and the timeline in the last year, for mental health, given the scale of the crisis, their go to market model looks exactly like the NHS, a free at the point of use service. And so we are focused on statewide sales, and we are supplementing that with a focus to then sell into education. So we're also doing a pilot in a university.

22:45 And so we feel that there are two ends where we can have a transactional approach to sell into universities and a transformational one to support statewide initiatives. How we achieve that? Pennsylvania is our blueprint for that. And so one regulatory difference in The US is counselors have to be licensed in the state that they operate. And so this is ideal for us doing a state by state model means that we can build a counseling team within that state to support a contract

23:20 to support its its residents. So that that'll be our focus. We are and have been building a pipeline. We've been in The US around fifteen, sixteen months. We're really delighted with the progress we're making so far. I'm gonna hand one over to you, Sanjay, which is this morning, you announced 8,500,000 of cash on the balance sheet. How many of your plans are supported by this figure? Yep. It's a good question. But one thing I've just cautioned is that cash number is probably a little bit higher than expectations. One of the great things working with Pennsylvania is that they paid the fee in full up front. So we have a bit of deferred income on the balance sheet.

24:06 But, we have been averaging investments in the platform over the last, two or three years of around at around 2 to £3,000,000 a year. At the operating cash flow level, we are pretty much breakeven, if not a little bit positive. So, certainly, we have at least two years of runway left at those levels. I suppose for us, the see, you know, one of the most exciting opportunities for us is The US as as as we've sort of probably alluded to throughout the presentation. Winning Pennsylvania has put us on the map in terms of other states across The US, And, you know, there's some pretty significant opportunities out there. The question for us really is, you know, do we go full strength, full speed ahead and tackle all of those opportunities, or are we a bit more sequential about it?

25:03 We demonstrate our efficacy in Pennsylvania first. We expand that contract, move move to the next state. The former would, you know, would would probably accelerate the investment required. But, of course, you know, we believe that would lead to greater revenues. But the short answer is we we are confident that we have sufficient runway here to get this business through to cash flow, breakeven, and profitability. I think that has actually come up in one of the other questions. And our expectation is that on a run rate basis that within twelve months or so, we would expect to achieve both of those. Right. Thanks, Sanjay. Question from Vishal, a clarification, really.

25:50 In the presentation, it talks about a 12 to one cost saving benefit, and I also talk about £3.14 to one. So that's a really good observation. The difference is is that 3.1 £3.14 is UK health care system. 12 to one is based off of taking the same model and applying that to The US given the high cost of health care there. There is a order of magnitude potentially larger ROI financial ROI from deploying case. Yeah. Prob probably worth pointing out, Tim, that counselors are around two to three times more expensive in The US than that we would see in The UK. Yeah. Yeah. Good point.

26:36 Question on what differences have you noticed with reaching decision makers and in contract terms when dealing with integrated care systems rather than clinical commissioning groups? Perhaps I'll just have a bit of context, which is the NHS in June finalized the reorganization from an IC from a clinical commission group model to ICS. I think it's fair to say that any kind of large reorganization, and there's fewer organizations larger than the NHS, slows down decision making. People identify who new decision makers are, what roles need to be filled. And in some cases, senior roles in integrated care boards are still vacant. So it's hard perhaps sometimes to progress when you don't have a finance director in place.

27:25 So I think what what we did see is while the deck chairs were being shuffled, no one really wanted to hold the pen on making any big decisions. And so something sales cycles for us certainly got delayed, but not but not canceled. Right? So I think we expect with the new end NHS year, which commences April 1, and strategic guidance from an operational guidance from NHS England, really with a increased focus on mental health care. We feel that that's a good stabilizer to get to plan future planning and future growth.

28:09 Perhaps a question from Sam. How fragmented is the market, and would you consider acquisitions as part of your strategy? Sanjay, would you like to talk to that? Yep. Good good good question. And, look, at at the time we IPO ed in September 20, this question came up a number of times. We are not an acquisitive business. Both Tim and I and our background have looked after a number of acquisitions, but that's not what we've been looking to achieve at KOOTH, and we certainly wouldn't be betting the house on any acquisitions. But we are starting to see you know, being a public company, we get approached quite a lot. And we are now starting to see some interesting things surface up, which are essentially perhaps VC funded startups a couple of years back where the VC may have put, you know, 5 tens of millions of dollars into a startup, and they've perhaps lost their way a bit. The funding has dried up, and those are sort of more slightly distressed type situations.

29:16 So two or three of those have started to come through to us, which, you know, we'll take a look at where we feel that there is a sufficient bolt on that might be in terms of content, for example. It might be a new geography. It might be something that enhances the platform, something that focuses on, you know, a niche area, maybe under eating difficulties, for example. So we we are certainly looking at things, but, you know, it it's it's watch the space, I would say. It's it's not something that is our core strategy, but we would be opportunistic if we could be. Yeah. Question about how we plan to address the global opportunity beyond The UK and The US. And so this is part of our long term strategy is to we view that we can't be everywhere. And in fact, it may be better to work alongside and within an existing health care provider in some cases. So beyond The UK and and US, our game plan there is to license our technology to health care operators so they can run KOOTH in their country.

30:25 And a lot of the work we're doing for The US creates the foundation work for that because often organizations want the data to to reside in their in their country. And so, you know, local privacy laws, for example, always apply. And so what we're doing with The US creates the ability for us to deploy KOOTH within a country's clouds in terms of IT infrastructure and operate an independent service outside of The UK. So I think it's another great example of by tackling The US, it extends our technology platform that will then enable us in the future to license our technology to other providers.

31:09 Question here about the high inflation, cost of living, and pressure on wages. Is that impacting KOOTH? So perhaps, Sanjay, you could cover that one. Yep. Great. So that that's a question from John. John, you've also mentioned scaling is the way to boost our profits. Though the one thing I would say is that whilst we share many characteristics with SaaS businesses, we are never gonna be at the 85, 90% gross margin of those businesses because we will always have a human intervention in the work that we do. You know? Counseling cannot be replaced completely by chatbots. So, you know, I expect that our gross margin, currently 65, 70%, might, you know, tick up a little bit with scale, over the coming years, but we will always have that human intervention.

31:56 And so that does mean that we are impacted, by cost of living, pressure on wages. We're currently going through our 2023 round of salary reviews. Historically, we have looked particularly with the NHS or other health care providers to sign longer term contracts after the initial twelve month pilot period, maybe a three year contract. And that was actually all well and good when inflation was running at one, two, 3%, and we could offer a fixed term contra a fixed cost contract knowing that we've built operational efficiency into that. That's more difficult now with inflation at around 10%, and so it's something that we're giving quite a lot of thought to. We tend to benchmark ourselves against the NHS, particularly for our service delivery staff.

32:46 The most recent NHS round of increases was in the region of 4 to 5¢. We wanted to be a little bit ahead of that. And, obviously, we're having conversations with our customers about, you know, being able to push some of those increases through to continue to deliver the quality of service that we do. And, you know, we're having reasonable we're getting reasonable traction around that. So, you you know, the the the longer it it is a difficult problem. It is something that we're keeping an eye on. We are ensuring that we remain competitive with with, you know, with with with comparables. But the one area where I suppose we have seen more pressure, certainly at the start of last year, was on the software developers and engineers side, also sort of slightly impacted by the great resignation as that those staff started leaving the workplace.

33:43 But, you know, I think in the last few months, we've started to see that market loosen up a little bit more as well. But at the start of last year, certainly, there were some challenges in bringing software stuff in. Just a few brief questions to answer. How many councilors we employ in The UK? What's the current number, Sanjay? We have, in total, around 240 practitioners. That's a blend of registered accredited counselors who typically deliver the sort of structured eight to 10 sessions and, what we call EWPs, emotional well-being practitioners. These are typically, ex teachers or social workers, people who've worked with children, and they are focused more on things like moderation, content, and single session droppings.

34:32 Great. So and a follow-up question I'll answer is what qualifications they have. So our individuals that are doing counseling will either have a accreditation or be registered with the British Association of Counseling and Psychotherapy. They will all be degree educated. People that might do more of that early support emotional well-being practitioners who often joined us from a professional background as a teacher or social worker. And every individual in our practitioner team is audited by our clinical team at least once a quarter. We have a huge focus on on clinical governance. And, of course, unlike other services, the complete complete audit trail and history of everything that's happened is available in our service because it's a text based messaging service. We have the full transcript for audit purposes of everything that's happened, which is a huge advantage in terms of improvement improving quality of the service over time.

35:28 A question about the corporate market and the competitive landscape there. And I think it's fair to say that a lot of organizations and a lot of start ups focused on selling into corporates with their dream being an app store download that makes them money while they sleep, and so that people can download an app, like a meditation app, and they get benefit from that. I think over the last three years, and we certainly saw organizations investing in either meditation apps or employee assistance programs when COVID started. I think what we're seeing now is a maturation of people's understanding of what their wants and needs are from these kinds of services.

36:13 So people's own understanding of them is is is better now. But the other part of that is our focus is on individuals and employees that have a real need that might have traumatic jobs, high stress, maybe in low pay occupations. So teachers, we're doing a lot in education right now to support teachers' well-being, ambulance workers, as I mentioned. So I think our focus is to go where there is a real higher need of a service, and meditation apps can't do that. So for us, we're really focused on a niche because I I think that probably is the way to tackle a go to market in a competitive, corporate landscape. Okay. I think we are nearing the end of the questions there.

37:01 Perhaps one final one for you, Sanjay, which is the end of the half year, you went from reporting a small profit to a to a loss of loss after tax for h one. Do you see profitability as an important metric for KOOTH going forward? Absolutely, it is. Yeah. And, you know, particularly around EBITDA. I would, however, stress that, you know, we are still very much in the growth phase. You know, the business has grown at around 30% a year for the last four, five years. I, you know, I can't speak directly for investors, but when we IPO ed, the cornerstone investors who came at the time of the IPO are still very much backing the business, and they were backing our growth business.

37:49 And that's, you know, why why the management team are in place. So good growth is very important to us, but, of course, we need the profits to be able to continue to reinvest in the business. I suppose, interestingly, Tim, you'll recall that in the last in the last half year results presentation, you know, investors are now starting to think a bit more about when we will hit cash flow breakeven, when we will be profitable. This business could, in my view, be profitable within three months, but we would have to cut back on investing, particularly in the platform. And, you know, I think in the long term, that would be detrimental to the business. But, you know, if we had to do that, then we we we could do so. We have the leaders to do so. Right. Thanks, Sanjay. Well, thank you for your great questions.

38:36 As you think about KOOTH, I think probably the key things that I think about the structural demands that there that there is for mental health that is in the media every day, the growing concern and challenge. We are a support service which is trusted, has been here for decades. We didn't pop up on the back of COVID. So I I really humbly feel that we are world leading at what we do given the longevity and experience that we've gained there. And I think as you think about where as an investor you wanna spend your time, putting it into an organization that has a huge social purpose and a growth potential, hopefully, is an interesting area for you. So thanks for listening to us, and we look forward to updating you next when we issue our annual report in Thank you.

39:24 Tim, Sanjay, that's great. And thank you very much indeed for being so generous of your time then addressing all of those questions that came in from investors this afternoon. And, of course, if there are any further questions that do come through, we'll make these available to you immediately after the presentation has ended for you to review. So then add any additional responses, of course, where it's appropriate to do so. Tim, I was just going to ask you for a few closing comments, but I think you just well delivered those. If it's okay, what I'll do now is redirect those on the call for their feedback, which I know is particularly important to yourself and the company. So, Tim, Sanjay, thank you very much once again for updating investors this afternoon. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order the management team can better understand your views and expectations.

40:10 This may take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of KOOTH PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. So good afternoon to you all. Thanks. Thank you.