Kenmare Resources (LSE:KMR) — Q3 2026 Production Update

0:01 Good afternoon, and welcome to the KENMARE RESOURCES PLC Q3 twenty twenty six Production Update. Screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. I would now like to hand you over to managing director, Tom Hickey. Good afternoon. Thanks very much, and thank you all for taking the time to join us today for this, our q three production update, and we'll cover some corporate matters as well. If we can just click through the slides, we'll just... I'm sure you've all read the disclaimer. And just a quick reminder for for those of you less familiar with KMR, we operate the MoMA titanium minerals mine in Mozambique. We've been in Mozambique for nearly forty years producing for nearly twenty.

0:53 The MoMA mine is is is a very high quality assets, exports a variety of high quality end products to world markets and has a multi decade or hundred year life at at current production rates. So it's a pretty unique asset, that we expect to operate for the the long term, and and that kinda drives or dictates how we think about investments, how we think about community relations, how we think about engagement with the government. We're an important part of the Mozambican economy, five, 6% of exports. We generate all our... Or or all our electricity is, comes from renewable sources. And and this plus our general transparency has has combined to enable us to become part of the FTSE for good index, which I think is an important reflection of quality of the work we do and how we try to engage with all the stakeholders in the country.

1:43 The the minerals we produce, titanium minerals are used in the manufacture of paints, paper, plastic, titanium, metal. We're about 6% of global titanium minerals supply. But we're one of the biggest kinda independent or nonintegrated players, and most of the bigger players have, you know, self supply to downstream operations. So we're a really important component of of global supply for our customers, and most of our customers stay with us for years, decades, have been with us since day one. And titanium is a critical mineral on on, you know, EU, US, and and and most government's critical minerals list. So we are well positioned in terms of our industrial exposure for some of the trends we're seeing in the global economy at the moment. MoMA is characterized by a significant level of investment.

2:30 We do everything from mining, heavy mineral sand, through processing, through export of a range of finished products, all from the one side at MoMA, and we have a net book value of the assets on-site of of over $850,000,000. So a very significant industrial complex, the biggest employer in its province, and very important to the region. We move on to the next slide. So just to touch on q three, we announced our q three production update this morning. And look, think q three was a a very materially better quarter than what we'd seen earlier in the year. 234,000 tons of ilmenite was 60% up on the second quarter. And and look, that's a run rate of, you know, over 930,000 tons per annum, which is is is a very considerable uplift and and shows the capacity and scale of the operation, the ability to deliver.

3:25 I think what many of you will be aware, however, that over the course of 2026, our production has been impacted by slower than expected commissioning on WCPA, which is our biggest mining plant. And that has led us to take what we believe, and Ben will cover it later, to be a relatively cautious view on 2026 production expectations and to adjust our guidance accordingly. Please don't take the the guidance range as as effectively our forecast. Our internal forecast would certainly be towards the upper end of that, and that's what we're working to achieve. But I think we have to recognize this... That WCPA has had some variability throughout the course of this year. And while as Ben will outline later, we believe it's making steady improvements, and and we remain confident of of move... Getting to nameplate capacity.

4:11 It's important to be cautious and just to be to be clear on on what people should expect over the remainder of the year. We also slightly adjusted our expectations around around shipments. I mean, there's no real single reason for this. Maybe Killion will touch on it later. We had some ships that were detained at other ports and consequently arrived, say, later at MoMA than we would have liked, and that caused delay of some shipments. And that plus the wider challenges of of securing marine vessels and and navigating through, you know, different parts of the world at the moment means that we're just being a little bit more cautious on our shipments. We do still have strong demand. We are still able to sell pretty much everything we produce. Probably a a shade less visibility, and we're just being a little bit cautious on the shipments level for for the full year.

4:58 We also announced today that we've done quite a bit of work in in recent months around the rare earth elements of of MoMA's mineral assemblage. We've been selling mineral sands concentrate since 2019, and and that contains monazite. We've been aware for a while that there was probably an opportunity for value add to that that that product stream and and indeed capitalizing on some of the trends I mentioned earlier around critical minerals. And, certainly, there's an opportunity that we've examined and validated through a preliminary feasibility study to preach our pre feasibility study to produce up to 4,000 tons a year of monocyte for a comparatively low capital light light. It's a it's a good high NPV project. But it's also what... You know, that that component of MoMA's mineral assemblage has also attracted the attention of of other players in the market.

5:50 And we are we are in in commercial discussions with a variety of credible funded partners, which hopefully will allow us in parallel with the definitive feasibility study we'll do over the coming months to move towards... Or to get kind of price discovery on what might be an executable transaction to to to better monetize this, you know, important component of our... Of of our mineral assemblage. So one that you can expect to see continuing use, though, on, but certainly one that that that we're excited about. More generally, I think, as you probably heard us say over the course of the year, the markets in which we operate have been challenging. You know, prices have fallen steadily since highs of 2022. And while demand remains stable, you know, and and indeed some of the precursors for market recovery are there, the market remains soft. We're not... You know, what we're seeing improved zircon prices. We're seeing, you know, the the the supply responses that the market has put in place be effective. That's less so the case in in ilmenite. We're still seeing some oversupply principally due to products produced by Chinese companies going into China.

6:57 And while, you know, we do hear anecdotally some sense that that may be moderating, certainly not one... Anything that we see in price yet. So some of the preconditions for price improvement are there, but certainly we're not seeing it in price yet. And certainly, we're we're we're preparing ourselves to continue to operate at our current prices for for a longer period if if needs be. If we move on to the next slide, I suppose... I've just covered the the the kind of day to day operations of the business in our markets. We've also had a number of corporate initiatives, you know, in one case for an extended period and in the other case more recently. The implementation agreement with the Mozambique government is is is one of the important agreements around MoMA. It covers the terms under which we conduct our processing and export activities, including royalties. It... We got a favorable deal back when we were building the mine. It enabled the mine to be built, and and we certainly didn't feel it was fitting or appropriate for those arrangements to continue for what would ultimately be forty years.

7:54 And we proposed the government a significantly improved return for the government from MoMA, which is more reflective of of the current realities. This has been a priority for us for quite some time. I've met the president on a number of occasions. We've always referred to the criticality of this amount... Of this agreement, which nominally expired at the end of twenty twenty four. We've been operating under the old terms, so we've been kind of accumulating an accrual or or revenue... Or, excuse me, our cash that that we will pay over to the government upon a conclusion. And so we reckon it's in everybody's interest to to conclude this rapidly. There's been quite a lot of work done over recent months. The technical team within MRAM, which is the the ministry for for mineral resources and energy, have been very diligent in having a stakeholder inclusive process in kind of assessing KMR's ability to bear the terms that we're proposing and looking at at the terms that are available in adjacent countries, and and moving towards what we hope will be a final and conclusive agreement.

8:57 We believe we're pretty much at the stage where we have a a final position, and indeed, some of you may have seen over recent days, a government spokesman in Mozambique mentioned that the agreement has been finalized and will soon be approved. Now we've had no official notification of that. I think we'd have to regard any kind of unofficial spokesperson's comments as as premature. But, certainly, we do share his view that material advances have have been achieved over recent months and and that, certainly, it should be possible to get to an agreement before too long and and perhaps even in the near future. I suppose the other important piece of corporate news flow in recent weeks, and I will be limited in terms of what I can say here, but, you know, just under two weeks ago, we announced that we'd received a nonbinding proposal from International Resources Holdings regarding a cash offer for KMR.

9:52 This would effectively be an offer for the whole business. Now the discussions in relation to that proposal are ongoing. IRH has until the November 17 to either transition those nonbinding interests to a formal offer and move into a formal offer process, although we can extend that time. And, obviously, we'll make whatever announcements are required during that period. The the announcement that we made on the October 6 was was certainly earlier than we or suspect IRH would have liked and that it came in response to press comment. So, obviously, as we move through the process, we will update to the best extent we can. With that, I'll hand over to my colleague, Ben Baxter, COO, who'll run through a few more of the specifics of of our... The ups and downs in our production in the first half and and where we are on WCPA and and and the progress we've made in this quarter.

10:48 Good afternoon. So on slide six, I'll I'll talk through the production. It was a good quarter with a 60% increase in the ilmenite production quarter on quarter. That came as a result of improved heavy mineral concentrate production, and this was really because we've seen excavated ore volumes increase quite nicely by 22% over the... From... On on the quarter. This was including, thankfully and gratefully, due to the improving WCPA performance as well.

11:34 That translated into ilmenite production and and other products and the other co products. We saw improved improved recoveries across all of the mineral separation plant and all of the products. However, the run rate that we had expected in q three was not quite achieved, and that came as a result of the fact that WCPA continued to have slow commissioning, and I'll talk some more about that on the next slide. But also, we had our first selective mining operation move, and that took longer to recommission than we had previously planned. And and there's been some good learnings there for future moves.

12:24 The the outcome of that is that we have down rated our ilmenite guidance. We previously had that at approximately 800,000 tons, and we recognized that that was not likely to be be the case any longer. However, the... As Tom mentioned upfront, the the new level of guidance of 710 to 750,000 tons is is a risk adjusted guidance that we've put in place there. We're certainly forecasting internally to to be at the top end of that. And and in being... Taking that risk based approach, the bottom end includes, for instance, not achieving significant improvements in utilization at WCPA in q four.

13:17 Now we expect that that won't be the case, but that gives you a bit of a... An explanation to the range of where our ilmenite guidance is. On the on the rest of the guidance, the zircon and rutile guidance remains the same, and concentrates guidance continues to be exceeded. We continue to deliver strong concentrates production principally coming from the new Zurich type product, which has been well received in the market. On shipments, we had a good quarter. We were up 7% year on year, and and and this is normally a quarter that's quite difficult due to weather.

14:06 We were, though, slightly behind our internal expectations, and this has caused us to moderate slightly our shipments guidance for the rest of the year, down 50,000 tonnes to 1,050,000 tonnes. And that principally came because the... We had we had late customer vessels arriving at MoMA, and and that has disrupted our shipping schedule and and leaves us with less time for shipping. Nevertheless, we see we see the the shipment performance has continued to be strong through the year so far. If I move to the next slide and talk a little bit more about WCPA and the commissioning process, we have seen continued improvements realized in q three, and in fact, quarter of this year has been an improvement on the past.

15:09 However, as I said, the gradient of uplift didn't quite achieve the expectations that we that we had set out. Nevertheless, we've been able to show that the plant can deliver to its capacity for extended periods. And and so where where are the issues that that... And where are the solutions? We've been focusing particularly on the dredgers. The the work that the dredge... The the work we're doing is with the dredge supplier, and it focuses on two main areas, the the winch brake performance and then the dredge pumping system and and the ability to to keep good flow levels in in the dredging process.

15:55 On the brakes, the winch brakes, we had a particularly poor August, and that impacted our quarter quite significantly on utilizations. However, by the end of August, working with the equipment manufacturer, we were able to implement a software solution, and that has materially improved the winch brake performance, and and we saw much more resilience through September and into October. We expect... We have agreed with the dredge manufacturer on a permanent solution for that. The design was was approved, and it is currently in fabrication.

16:42 And we expect to implement that before the end of the year on the first dredge. We'll then run some tests and then and then hopefully pass that design straight onto the second dredge as well. Regarding the mining rates and the pump... Dredge pump configuration, we we we we are seeing low flow events occurring with the dredgers, and we've had quite an intense quarter in terms of engagement with the OEM on this. We currently have specialists at MoMA. We have our own, both from the dredge manufacturer and our own, who are working through how to improve the pump control performance.

17:30 And and those modifications have... Some are in development, and testing is already underway on on some of those some of those items. Downstream of the dredges, we saw some really good improvements through through the quarter, particularly on the tails pumps and the and the system of pumpings. So gearboxes were changed. Ceiling was... Ceiling improvements were made, and and and that's really helped to debottleneck the pump... The the back end of the plant. Off plant, the tails management systems are working very well. The densification paddock was trouble free through the quarter and as was the tail storage facility.

18:17 They are now what I call pretty much in steady state and operating well. So in in summary, the the improvements in throughputs and utilizations have been coming through, but they're not yet running at the levels that we want them to be. We we operated about 3,100 tons per hour through the quarter and a rate of... Utilization rate of 49%. So not... You can see from that, I mean, 49% is not where we wanna be. The max... That's the... The main issue there was those breaks impacting in in August, and and we expect those those numbers to improve as we continue through q four. You can sense that maybe that the the rate of improvement is is...

19:07 Has risk attached to it, and hence, that's why we've been... I explained the the new guidance numbers that we have. Maybe just one other thing to mention on on this slide around improvements is that we also expect in q four to commission the selective mining operation number two. It's currently in construction, and the commission is expected during this quarter, and that will bring an additional 500 tonnes per hour of capacity into the operation. With that, I'll pass on to slide eight and Killion. Thanks, Ben. Good afternoon, everyone.

19:53 So as Tom touched on, we saw pretty stable demand for our products in quarter three, but shipments slightly below where we had wanted them. And just to add a bit of detail, really, it was two shipments at the end of the quarter, which we were ready for, but the vessels got stuck in a port nearby waiting to discharge, so it didn't arrive to a moment in time. Bringing them in, you know, would have brought the shipments above two sixty thousand tons. There were two zircon shipments that just have since departed. So, yeah, a bit lighter on the shipments, and that's the primary reason why. And looking to actual marketing in quarter three, starting on ilmenite, we actually saw this sequentially higher prices for ilmenite, but that was mostly due to product mix and not the underlying market, which really weakened again in in quarter three due to the oversupply.

20:53 This continues to be led by by China and in China, where there's two main sources of supply causing the issues. One being concentrates being shipped from Africa, Australia into China and the other one being domestic in my production in... Internally in China. I think the positive we're seeing at the moment is a reduction in production of domestic ilmenite. And, you know, when you combine that with what we've spoken about earlier in the year of production being curtailed in other regions as well, know, you we do believe that production of feedstocks this year is below consumption. But at the moment, inventories are managing to to meet that demand and continue to put pressure on on the market in general.

21:42 Demand itself continues to be okay. I think another record for pigment in general in China in q three and chloride pigment as well, which uses our type of ilmenite and the same for titanium metal. Both continue to grow and continue to take market share as well. So that is positive underlying trend for our ilmenite. But, yeah, overall, still still seeing price weakness in general on the ilmenite side. Zircon Zircon's a better story. We had limited shipments in q three due to... And slipping into early October. But the trend we spoke about really in q two has continued into q three with lower production from mines around the world, lower supply, really tightening up the market. And, yeah, that's led to price increases really throughout the year, and we're seeing that continue into q four with really resilient demand for for our zircon products as well.

22:45 So expect to see strong volumes and better pricing in q four on the zircon side. With that, I'll pass back to Tom. Thanks very much, KLM. And, Ben, look, KMR's purpose... What... Why I mean, why we operate, we wanna transform our resources into opportunity for all. You know, that means communities around us. That means our employees. That means government. It means our shareholders, lenders, you know, everybody we work with. Because we've got a long term high quality assets, this asset will will be producing through a number of cycles, and we spent a lot of time and done a lot of work this year trying to make sure that the business is well placed to weather those cycles and and come out the other side and perform well. You know, as I said, it's one of the largest... World's largest deposits, so we're gonna be here a long time. You know, the the capital expenditure for the transition to WCPA is is behind us.

23:40 And as Ben hopefully outlined, the resolution of some of the the commissioning of... Obstacles we've seen is is hopefully not too far off, and certainly, we've already made good progress towards it in q three. So, you know, we are prepared for the long term. You know, we are an important part of the market and important to our customers, and and those customers, you know, have have few choices in terms of where they go. So they're they're they're loyal. They appreciate our quality. They appreciate our responsiveness. We've worked hard, as I said, to to be cash generative this year. We've prioritized shipments and and, you know, meeting customer demand above any other KPI. And I think we've done a good job on that so far, and and, you know, we continue to work hard to to manage our costs to to defer or reduce our CapEx where possible and and to sell, wherever there's demand. And, you know, I think looking to the longer term, let's remember that this is a business that has paid out over $300,000,000 to shareholders in the last five or six or seven years.

24:44 You know, when the cycle turns, and while, you know, it's not imminent or certainly we don't see it being imminent, it will happen. This is a very cash generative business. You know, we're very hopeful, as I said, that we will get the implementation agreement concluded, and that will close on a firm platform for the next twenty years of operations at the moment. And we're very hopeful that that the business will thrive and shareholders will do well during that time as well. So thanks for all your... For your time. We will happily take any questions you have. And, obviously, there's a email address and phone number there as well if you have questions offline or that occur to you following this meeting. That's great. Thank you very much indeed for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions using the q and a tab situated on the top right corner of your screen. While the company take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I would like to remind you that a recording of this presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via our investor dashboard.

25:44 Catherine, at this point, if I may now hand back to you to chair the Q and A, I'll pick up at the end. Thank you. Thank you. So first question, if mineral sands prices were to remain 20% to 30% below current levels for several years, what would be management's priorities regarding capital expenditure and shareholder distributions? So maybe I'll start with Adam, our CFO. James can jump in as well. Look. I I think, you know, we've already seen a significant reduction in pricing over the last three, four years, as I mentioned. You know, we've already seen people respond as as as miners typically do at times of low price constraint, you know, constraining production, you know, reducing CapEx, reducing expenditure, no new projects being built.

26:31 You know, we would we would feel that the capacity for, you know, further dips of that level are on a sustained basis is is is limited. But I think we we also know from what we see that that would put quite a lot of the industry operating, you know, at or or or below breakeven. So I think from our perspective, the actions... The things that we can control, because we can't control the price of what we sell, things we can't control are our operating costs, our capital costs. You know, we've taken a decent chunk out of OpEx in the last year and a half, partly through a regrettable necessity to to retrench 15% of our of our team. Secondly, through, you know, a rigorous challenge of of any and all expenditures.

27:18 And we've... You know, our CapEx following our significant investment program is is substantially reduced and and and, you know, you know, significant elements that are within our control in terms of deferral or making choices. And and, you know, our lenders have been supportive to the extent of of increasing our our debt availability for a period, and and they understand the nature of the cycle. So I think we keep doing what we're doing. I think, you know, with a sustained period of weak pricing, we will see more distress. We will see people exit the market. We're already seeing that that's, you know, for a variety of reasons, production this year will be less than demand, but there is still a little bit of inventory in the system to be worked through. James, anything you wanted to to add to on that?

28:03 Yeah. Look. I mean, I guess the only thing is just to to reflect that actually from a CapEx perspective, we're we're through the vast majority of the WCPA project, you know, 341,000,000, but we're, you know, probably touching 300,000,000 of that at this stage. And we've spread, you know, the bulk of the rest of that out over many years. So we... We've we've sort of, it's been very pleasing to see the CapEx spend per month drop, from where we were, you know, this time last year, with, you know, in some months, 10,000,000 plus going out the door to to really a a a trickle at this stage. And so, you know, as Tom said, we'll we'll continue to sort of manage the the rest, the ongoing sustaining capital and OpEx and very, very actively in light of the conditions that we're in.

28:56 Yeah. Sorry. There was one piece that I forgot to answer there around dividends. Look. You know, we suspended the dividend earlier this year. I think we'll need to see a recovery. We'll need to see a reduction in our net debt, and we'll need to see that those things are sustainable before we would would return to share... To to to dividends. But we do... You know, I think it's implicit in what I said about about the cash that business had generated over the last, you know, cycle that we recognize that dividends have been an important part of the investment case, and we very much hope they will be again. And certainly, that's what we're planning towards, but we can't commit to a timeline on it. Next question. Has mining at Nataka started yet? I... I'll I'll let Ben run through that because, look, it's not like you you reach a kind of a per hour and you suddenly are in Nataka. This is a this is a process, and the attacker is an ore body that represents 70% of our reserves. So it is the future of the business. Sorry, Ben. Go ahead. Yeah. So thanks for the question. So the the the exit of the Old Namalope area and the entry into Natakar, it's it's contiguous as as Tom says, and there's this transition that we have to get over or get through of of approximately two years of of of low grades before we get to what we would call an attacker proper. And attacker proper being the grades rise up to circa 3% grades

30:26 and that... And and they're there for for multi decades ahead. So so we are at the start of that transition period now in the in the process of exiting Namalope and into the beginnings of Nataka, but knowing that this is not the Nataka that we expect... That we're trying to hang around in. We want to get to the place where the grades are. And so so that is that is the process that we're going through right now. Next question. Beyond the current transition to Nataka, what other development opportunities within MoMA could potentially extend production or increase volumes over the long term, such as WCPB, selected mining operations, or other ore zones?

31:15 Ben, do you wanna cover that? Beyond beyond Nataka... Oh, sorry. Beyond the WCPA move to Nataka, WCBB and WCPC both have long term multi decade pathways, which which move them towards Netaka. The... It... It's probably important to say that the the WCPA project that's been... As James just said, is largely behind us in capital spend now. That... That's the last major nondiscretionary spend for the existing plants. WCPC does require a relatively minor relocation capital, and we're currently working to extend that well beyond 2030.

32:09 But that will be maybe in in the zone. We don't have a cost for it yet, but we're talking about low tens of millions, not the large capitals of the WCPA move. And that's because it would be using infrastructure that was previously used for the WCPB move back in 2020. Beyond those existing plants, we do have a growth project. And that growth project is in an area called Congoloni. And that's a high quality ilmenite and zircon deposit. We have done PFS work on that pre feasibility study level work on that deposit, and we're currently reviewing that in the context of the learnings that we've had from the successful selective mining operation implementations.

33:04 And and and we see that Congoloni has a lower capital opportunity by using the SMO style of mining. And and that that is our long term growth opportunity for for the business. Next question. Please remind us of where your balance sheet is at relative to covenants. Yeah. Thanks, Catherine. Well, look, just stepping back, we we agreed in June this year an upsize in our RCF facility from $200,000,000 to $230,000,000. And as part of that, we agreed some some new covenants, which were balance sheet related. So realizable assets to total debt have to be over three and a half times.

33:56 Current assets to current liabilities greater than 1.5 times and cash to to net interest cover greater than one times. And so and and those are being tested now on a quarterly basis. So we've... You know, we had no issues with covenants at the half. We had our our first test in in September September month end. And while we don't disclose financial results, I can say that there were no covenant breaches. And and the next will will be at year end. The EBITDA based covenants, so net debt to EBITDA and interest cover, they they have been waived through the end of the year through to December. So, you know, from from year end perspective, I I think, you know, we're... So so far, we've been quite comfortable on the... On those new covenants. And, look, you know, as as things as things progress, obviously, we, you know, we we talk very regularly with our lenders.

34:54 We are in in challenging market conditions at the moment, and our lenders are fully abreast of that as they are with the implementation agreement in any other facet of our business. And so, you know, we'll continue to work actively with the lenders, and we'll continue to work to ensure that there's there's no surprises to to, you know, to us or to them. Will the settlement of the implementation agreement cover the full framework of KMRCES operations in Mozambique, or is there danger of similar drama when the other contract governing KMRCES activities in the country expires? Thanks, Catherine. I'll take that. Look. The implementation agreement covers our processing and export operations. There's a separate framework covering our mining operations, which is covered by a separate agreement. Now the implementation agreement is particularly complex or unusual agreement, and it was designed for investment promotion and had very favorable royalty terms. Our our mining agreements are are more standard.

35:52 They're very clear in terms of the renewal terms, and they're probably even stronger in terms of protections that they can fare on us. So I think... Look. Like many others, we've learned a lot through the implementation agreement process. Clearly, it's not done yet, hopefully, before too long. And we'll take that into the mining discussions. We have a good relationship with the regulator, with MRAM, and with the minister for mineral resources and energy and what... And have had and maintained throughout this process. So I think we're hopeful that that that it will be a more straightforward process. But, obviously, we will take whatever actions we need to protect our interests if we need to take them. But, I'd be very hopeful that that it won't be, as elongated a process as as implementation agreement has been. And let's remember part of the rationale or reason for the the IA having taken longer was, you know, there was an election towards the towards the precise renewal date in late twenty twenty four, which caused a lot of kinda civil and political disorder, and it took quite a quite a period of time for the the new government to become effective and and to kind of reengage with a variety of processes of which this was won.

37:06 So, look, we we will work with the authorities in Mozambique as we have on on the IA. It's a different agreement, which is in many respects simpler, and we'd be hopeful that that we have a a reasonably straightforward renewal process when that comes. That was the final question. Handing back to you, Tom, for final comments. Thanks very much. Thanks, everybody, for your time. You know, we look forward to keeping you updated on various initiatives in the business over the coming months. And, you know, we recognize this, you know, 2026 has been a challenging year, but we think the businesses, you know, and the team have worked very hard to navigate our way through it in a way, as I said, that that hopefully positions us to recover quickly when when the recovery comes.

37:54 Unfortunately, we don't have great insight on that just yet. Zircon markets are better, but ilmenite markets not just yet. So, look, thanks for your time. Happy to take any other queries that you may have outside the form of this meeting, and look forward to speaking with you again before too long. Have a good day. Fantastic. Thank you all very much indeed for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback, which help the company better understand your views and expectations. On behalf of the management team, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to