Kefi Gold and Copper (LSE:KEFI) — Investor Presentation

0:01 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the KEFI GOLD AND COPPER PLC Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and could be submitted at any time using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. We did receive a number of pre submitted questions, and there was a lot of commonality in those themes. So perhaps during the presentation, if we take the pre submitted questions and then submit your questions, that will enable less duplication. The company may not be in a position

0:32 to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company review your questions submitted today, and then we'll publish those responses where it's appropriate to do so on the investment company platform, and we'll notify you by email when they're ready for your review. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And if you give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company would be most grateful. I'd now like to hand over to CEO and Executive Chair, Harry Ankestar of Sandoz. Good afternoon. Thank you, Mark. First of all, let me open by firstly thanking attendance, but also just highlighting that I'm I'm mindful that there are some people on this webinar who are unfamiliar with the company. I've been asked to participate in a mining investment forum in in a week's time, and I know there's quite a few people from that who who will be watching this.

1:32 But on the other hand, I'm also well aware that there are some people who are steeped in all the detail and background of the company. And, therefore, I apologize to those for whom I go into too much detail, and I and in a sense, the opposite for those for whom I don't go into enough detail. Without further ado, let me say that I'll I'll give a brief presentation. I want I won't walk through the whole slideshow, but before just before this webinar, we released our quarterly report, and we released an attaching slideshow both on our website. I won't go through the whole slideshow. I'll just go through the introductory parts to it and just highlight the things that I think existing shareholders perhaps would would like me to highlight.

2:24 And then we'll have the question and answer. There were a few submitted already. I'll answer some, and Eddie Solbrand, the chief operating officer, will will answer some. Okay. So now back to the presentation. On on the on the screen is Tulakapi. The gold deposit is that hill. On that hill is our camp. It's been there over fifteen years, a serene, beautiful countryside. Never have any of our people out there been, you know, being hurt by any of these highly publicized, or at least recently highly publicized security concerns and incidents in the country. This is a quiet a quiet place.

3:13 Having said that, it chart it changed a lot since we arrived, and we took over the site eight years ago ourselves. And the move to democracy has unleashed various destabilizing forces that are coming right down again now, But probably, you're all aware that there's highly publicized conflict and instability over the last couple of years, which, as I say, is coming down rapidly now.

3:47 Disclaimer. A bit much people don't even read it, but I just highlight the fact that it when we make predictions, we're not making promises. We can't give guarantees. We don't have a crystal ball. And I suppose we've shown that by our experience and by the surprises we've suffered in in in these frontier markets, the disclaimer actually does have a meaning and therefore do remind people that, you know, they're there for a purpose.

4:14 I won't dwell on everything other than to make a couple of points on each slide as we go through. We were formed as a junior exploration company in 2006. It was, I think, a £2,000,000 float. We had excellent prospectors out there from day one,

4:33 getting us focused in on various parts of of a region we we we really wanted to attack, so to speak, from a geological exploration viewpoint. And about eight years ago, we moved into a more development planning phase, and we started to replace the team or or complement the team with people who were developer operators, not only explorers. And the short of it is that we have made a couple of significant discoveries despite the geopolitical turbulence that we've contended with in our frontier markets. We we've worked our way through that, and we've made a couple of significant discoveries, and we've made an acquisition, which we then fixed up.

5:21 So we've achieved a lot in a mining fundamental development planning sense. But the big change over the last year is that the the political and regulatory environment in our two markets, Saudi Arabia and Ethiopia, have changed for the better

5:42 markedly, which means that we're we're now able to move very quickly compared to what we're able to do previously. It's not a secret that the area is prospective. There are many companies that have come in, not many of them able to move quite quickly enough in Ethiopia in particular, but they're all there and interested, including the world's two largest gold producers, Barrick and Newmont. We happen to have the first major development to go in Ethiopia and the next two developments to go in Saudi Arabia.

6:28 So whilst it may have been frustrating and tough at many times over the sixteen years, As it turns out, we're in, if you like, a pole position in both countries today. Now this colorful slide doesn't need to be dwelt on. It's just trying to make a couple of simple points. I'll explain. On the top is a set of lines that reflect what happened at Tulakapi. Why did it take so long? The next set down is what happened at Jibel Kutman.

7:13 Why did it take so long? And the third sit down is, you know, with hindsight, really, what should they have taken if we weren't held up artificially, if you like, by by systems that weren't ready for us. Up in Tulakapi, up in Ethiopia, the the the longest bar, that light blue line, doesn't even exist in the Saudi line. That is changing regulations that allow financing to take place in the modern sense. Ethiopia is a closed economy with capital controls, no foreign banks, regulated interest rates,

7:58 and so on. And we've had to change all sorts of things through consultation and convincing the authorities to allow mining finance to proceed. Saudi Arabia has an internationally open market with large capital providers within the country. Another thing I'd point out is that that darker green and lighter green shading bars up in Ethiopia, They don't exist in Saudi Arabia either. That's the need to move a community and issues to do with security at the site. Those problems don't prevail there in Saudi. On the other hand, there's a very long middle blue

8:36 bar in Saudi that doesn't exist other than for one little short bar in Ethiopia, and that is the approval of a mining license has taken eight years in Saudi Arabia. They've just rewritten their regulations partly around the problem they created for us and for themselves around us.

8:59 But, coincidentally, they're both held up for different reasons, but I suppose roughly the same amount of time. And looking back now, it's all spilt milk, but it, you know, it it it should be said and be open about it. If both if both regimes or regulations were were then what they are now, we'd have been in production in both four or five years ago.

9:30 Now looking forward, the top is Tulakapi. The middle is Jubal Kutman, similar sized project in Saudi Arabia, and the bottom is Hawiya, a bigger project in Saudi Arabia. And we're looking to start Tulakapi shortly. And within six months or so, Jimo Kutman. And then when those two are up into steady state production to trigger construction of the third one, which is a bigger bigger beast. They're all open in resources. They'll all grow, but we're starting with the two simpler projects whilst we put our arms around and and and settle down the drilling and definition of the scale of the third one.

10:25 Between them all, you're looking at, in gold equivalent terms, about 400,000 ounces a year of production. So, you know, this is this is a company that started as a £2,000,000 exploration IPO that's now on on a track towards becoming a mid tier producer and, obviously, a completely different ballgame of of cash flows and balance sheet and so on. Now what does that mean in values, and what are we striving to achieve here? The bar on the very left is the market capitalization of KEFI today, and all the other bars have to do with NPVs or net present values.

11:16 The the blue ones are of the individual projects, our interests therein, and the red one is of the, you know, aggregate of the three individual projects, our interest therein. And and, I mean, net present value is just a theoretical calculation. It will be based on fact and real data, but it's only an estimate and a projection. Now what does the real world actually value companies at? And it's fair to say that what before they're in production, NPV is the most typical measuring stick of value. And as one derisks from being unfinanced through construction on schedule, through getting into production, the the discount between market capitalization and full valuation erodes and works its way away, and you become more fully valued.

12:15 The first set of NPVs is of the company of the projects today, and the second set is as they would be at the beginning of twenty five when you started production in '2 and you're about to start construction in '1. So that that's what happens to the underlying values just based on the the the the NPV stock calculation. Now that's not the only way to calculate values.

12:41 And a professional analyst who does this full time has databases of stocks like these coming out of his ears, asked the these people to pull out the African developers and rate them vis a vis KEFI on three scores. The top left hand bars on one score, the top right hand bars on another score, the top left hand bar on another score.

13:12 The bottom line is that if you then compare the three, what does it mean for KEFI shareholders act quite remarkably similar. I suppose it's why they use those three measures. They tend to cross check each other, and they seem to mirror each other a fair bit.

13:32 So, I won't dwell on that, but it's just a, I suppose, a measuring stick of where we're heading or where we're aspiring to hit. The the bottom right is is nothing to do with value. It's just what's the grade of this thing of the first project in Tula Kappi. It's a high grade open pit at over two grams. It's a high grade underground over five grams. And and it and it ranks in the better half, if you like, of the grades of mines in Africa and probably internationally, which is which is a good thing. Now financing. You know, most of the questions we received before the webinar were about the financing of Tulakapi and how and when

14:21 and details and and that sort of thing being embedded in the questioning. And, this chart is it might it might look very busy, but it's worth explaining in a couple of minutes. And I'll elaborate I'll elaborate much more on the financing in a moment, but just to paint a picture literally for a moment. The three boxes on the left, at the bottom on the left, are Saudi Arabia. A partner providing equity, a development fund providing debt, both of them in the country, both of them well, obviously, familiar with their own country, and both of them see us as the technical experts who bring mining skills to the to the scene.

15:16 Pretty straightforward. We don't have to go looking for banks to bring to the country. We don't have to go looking for investors to bring to the country. We just have to deliver the, you know, the operational expertise for planning, development, production. Now the other boxes are all to do with, nearly all to do with, Tulakapi and Ethiopia. And that is that we bring banks, we bring contractors, we bring equity partners to the country.

15:55 All the darker blue boxes are our companies, and inside those companies, there are partnership boards and committees of different stakeholders in Saudi Arabia, the Al Rashid family. On the board as a controlling shareholder. We propose and we operate, but the Al Rashid, a controlling shareholder. Over in Ethiopia, we're the major shareholder, and the government, our partner, looks to us to bring the capital and human resources that are required by the project. Now those gray boxes are basically the parties that are sitting around waiting today for the final plan to be signed off, and I'll come back to that. So we've got a whole syndicate in place, and the the the last bit of adjusting between the parties of the contributions and the pricing is in the gray boxes so that we can, you know, flow once the banks set down the ground rules.

17:04 They they're they're the boss, if you like, the same the lenders. There's only one unusual thing on this chart, and that is that that is that on the top right hand corner, there are entities that invest in the Ethiopian holding company, KEFI Ethiopia. Down below in the subsidiary and in the project. And then one day, three years hence, at the then market prices, they convert through KEFI into stock. They've got special dispensation to do that from the government, and that that allows them to eventually get their capital out of the country in the meantime to support industrial development. And it's good for us because it's nondilutive in today's terms. It comes out in the values down there when we're in production.

17:57 I'll come back to financing later. There's a couple of slides on security. I'll hand over to Eddie, please. Are you there, Eddie? Yeah. Thanks, Harry. I just had to unmute myself. Security in the country, as you can see from this map, is settling down. We've built some very robust systems and processes wrapped in some policies in order to move people and goods around the country. If you know Ethiopia, you can see this map. There's a port called Djiputti on your right, and the roads up to and a little bit beyond a place called Nakhem, which is a 100 kilometers from our site, is all green.

18:51 So it's a low risk environment. As we get past the Kempt and go further west towards Abyssina and places like that and Tigimbi, it becomes a little more precarious, and we have different protocols that we put into place to ensure the safety of our people and security of the assets that we may be transporting. We've road tested these systems now for the last twelve months, and in fact, we're so confident that our CEO in Ethiopia has gone to the campsite and will be going on to some of the surrounding towns to engage with the community, local authorities around the relocation that we're doing.

19:42 Now if I go to the next slide, if we put Ethiopia into context in terms of risk sorry. I just You do do it. Sorry. Okay. Sorry, Harry. If we look at this map on the left, we've got Ethiopia. We've got Burkina Faso, which is all a red zone. There are mines operating, not only general mines, but gold mines operating there. We look at Mali. It's largely red and orange. We look at, Egypt, a little bit better. Also, green strips, but also a lot of orange in there to proceed with caution. And perhaps the most salient, I guess, in terms of size and population base, is Nigeria.

20:31 Now, the difference between Nigeria and Ethiopia is that a lot of the problems in Nigeria have been manifesting and festering for decades now. They're old, old, problems that that that won't go away. Ethiopia's problems, if you will, young democracy's problems. New governments, new regimes, old regimes broken down, and areas where there's disgruntlement, power vacuums, and so on and so forth. Several years ago that country map of Ethiopia was all green, during the Tigray crisis it was largely red, and as you can see now, and this is reasonably recent data from the FCDO, it's settling down quite a bit.

21:23 As I said, so much so that our CEO is now traveling out to the mine site, the villages around there with precautions, ensuring that we're doing this safely, but we are quietly optimistic that this will get better. And if it stays the same, we're still confident that we can get people and equipment as required safely to site. That's pretty much shit on security for me. Harry, I'll just pass to you, Ian. Yeah. The only thing I'd add to that is that as as things go forward, we have a thousand employees and five to 10,000 indirect employees, and, you know, it's an engine of economic development for the region, this project, once it's going.

22:09 We have an airstrip on-site and infrastructure in place. Essentially, the situation today will be a figment of history because Yeah. The whole the whole district out there will will be intertwined with our operation, and they'll be our most effective ambassadors and protectors. Now milestones looking forward, essentially having spent £90,000,000 in sixteen years to assemble these projects to worth 200 to 400 depending upon how far ahead you look, Not assuming any growth in resources or taking them as their resources stood last year. Obviously, the market cap is only a fraction of all those numbers, so it's got a long way to go to reflect anything like that.

23:00 But therein, I suppose, lies the opportunity for anybody who does want to consider getting involved with the company at this juncture as it's about to trigger to what I think are very important inflection points being the triggering of development followed by the triggering of development. As outlined earlier on that on that bar chart of showing the two progressing and then the third project coming on. This is a very unusual situation to have a company that, after sixteen years of hard slog, actually, it looks set now to trigger two developments and then a third one. And in the space of only a few years to go through go from the situation that it was in as a junior explorer to being what is, I suppose, colloquially referred to in the industry as a mid tier producer.

23:55 Very, very unusual. I'm not aware of any company. I mean, I've been in this industry decades, so I just can't think of one that did quote this before. I'm sure there were, but I'm not aware of them. As I said, I'll I'll I'll pick up on the financing, go through some details there, which has been asked of us when we start the Q and A. But in the meantime, than dwell on talking, I'll hand back to the organizer so we can go into the Q and A. Great. Harry, Eddie, thank you very much indeed for updating investors this afternoon. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab. Situated on the right hand corner of the screen, which is why Harry and Eddie take a few moments to review your questions submitted already. I'd like to remind you the recording of this presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A, will be accessible via your investment company dashboard.

24:49 As I did mention at the outset, we did receive a number of pre submitted questions, and they did fall into a number of categories. And Harry, I know you took the time to try and put those into as many as we could, and I'm sure there might be some duplications looking through the live questions as well. But, Harry, if I may, can I just hand back to you and and maybe if you could ask you to read out the questions and give a response, and then I'll pick up from you as time permits? Okay. Well, the the the most set the biggest set of questions was all about, can you please spell out details of the financing? How does it work exactly? Timing and drawdowns and conditions and and and all that stuff. And I apologize in my if my answer seems, you know, motherhood to to those familiar with with these sort of project financings, but I'd I'd like to go into more detail than perhaps what we had before.

25:52 And first of all, we we had signed a term sheet with the banks in 2019. We were lining up to get going. Their due diligence was in full gear. And then things in Ethiopia started to play up a little bit as as we've all seen. But that that exercise of due diligence for an African development bank in an emerging mining frontier took a couple of years. You know? And and cut cut a long story short, various experts were brought in to, you know, to check and and, you know, clip and and and adjust and so on to make the banks comfortable wherever they they felt appropriate. But by and large, it all stood tall, and we had term sheets 2019.

26:54 Getting ready to launch in 2020. Now as you may recall last year, there was quite a lot of publicity about the in country disputes and civil unrest and a war in the north of the country, and it was parked, essentially. It was suspended. It wasn't the moment to trigger. In May this year, we reassembled as a syndicate and decided let's get let's get things ready to to go again. It had the country was calming down sufficiently. We knew it would take some time to work through all the various aspects of of pulling all the financing into place, and and we thought we should get going, which we did. In June, an umbrella agreement was signed, setting out basically who's doing what within the syndicates and and and setting up the sequence and setting up the process that we all have to abide by.

27:54 Then July, August, we we had to retender to get all prices up to date. I think most people would know there's been cost inflation around the world for for a number of reasons. And bearing in mind that we have a fixed price lump sum engineering and procurement contract on the plant. And, clearly, engineers will not sign a fixed price lump sum without having the prices up to date. And and we did all that. We adjusted all the numbers. We reported all that publicly, and we re we circulated an updated finance plan on what we would like. And that's that's going going, you know, doing the rounds, if you like, within within the banks. At the same time, whilst it's not proper or permissible for us to talk out of school about the business between the other parties, particularly the banks and the government, there were some issues between the bank and the government. We did publicly allude repeatedly to the fact that the both the two banks required engagement and permission to deal on the same terms, and that that problem or obstacle only only went away in the last week or two, and I think we announced that as well.

29:24 New government policies were set up, you know, with us, for us on international clearing accounts and market based interest rates and so on. Now as I said earlier, we as we announced that having circulated to the banks the the update not to all of them, but particularly the banks are the ones who have to go first. They're the boss, really. The updated finance plan against all the costings, we await them to come back with approval thereof. And it's not in KEFI shareholders' interest really to how would I put it, to preempt them in any way. We want having having KEFI shareholders having sponsored for so many years so much capital into exploration and development and our predecessors before us, and now actually proposing that the syndicate provides all the development funding of of this whole project.

30:35 It's it's in our interest to allow them to work through that, obviously. And first cab off the rank will be the banks. There are large regional investors, equity investors at the table, and part of all the syndicate meetings every week or two. So everybody's awaiting to go forward. This the the regional investors, some of them are very keen to invest because it takes their local currency sitting in in Ethiopia and deploys it into a a hard currency asset in effect. And as I said earlier, some of them have a special dispensation to convert into KEFI stock three years hence. So this this commitment or this syndicate is essentially as answering the question, how does one that starts a £2,000,000 company that's now a £20,000,000 company that has three projects to develop, how does one have first tier banks, first tier contractors, first tier investors effectively put up the money.

31:45 The alternative is a large company would just put it up itself perhaps. Most of them would go through project financing, I dare say. But that's the cost of the complexity is its complexity. The reward of the complexity is it's a highly risk structured venture with the capital being provided by experts that support the junior explorer that's transforming itself. The companies are all first tier. They're all, you know, very solid names. They don't want their names banded around until closing. As usual, in any in any country when you're about to launch such an important project, you get all sorts of, you know, interference and characters turn up to try to have a piece of it. And so nobody wants noise or interference until it's all closed, nice and calmly, and that's what we're doing.

32:42 We've, in effect, circulated the finance plan that covers over 90% of the funds for the whole package. And then when the banks sharpen their pencils and come back to us, I just saw a message that the next meeting's on Friday. We'll we'll adjust the allocations and and make up the the last 10% once we know exactly what what we're dealing with. The sequencing is that we all have to be clear what the full package is. It has to be announced and disseminated publicly so that our share market shareholders can also understand it. Obviously, the share market can't price it unless it can understand it and be fully informed. So at the moment, we're just working through that process, and the next step is the next step is December sorry, November 15 for the sign off of the finance plan, and then we proceed by the end of the year to launch with a full sign up of all the conditions having been satisfied or very little left.

33:45 In terms of sequencing of money, the equity will always go first. Any any residual component that we choose to put in as KEFI will be only after the market's been fully informed and fully digested. We announce everything in the proper way. And then and our co investors will put money in alongside us at the same time being released out of escrow accounts. And then the debt will come later. The the subordinated debt won't be needed for twelve months and the senior debt probably for eighteen months. But that that sort of sequence is is the way it will run out. I hope that was of some value. I'm sorry. It took a few minutes. The second question is it's it's the second most popular question, if I put it that way.

34:37 When does the when does KEFI itself need more cash to raise? How can it be accessed, and does it get any money back from all the other investors and loans? There there is in terms of the last bit of that question, there there is a possibility that there'll be some refunds of shareholder loans, but that will be subordinated to all the other project requirements. But that's the tweaking, if you like, that we'll do between now and the funds flow. But putting that aside and coming back to the first question, you know, since and and many of the questions that were sent into us referred to the auditors report and auditors saying there's a going concern matter. Well, you know, the company doesn't have a cash flow. It's been listed as a an explorer that raises money regularly from shareholders to spend.

35:31 And that's and that audit report, it's not a qualification. It's called a a material adverse, something rather matter material matter, is stating the fact that it the company relies on on capital to continue its activities pending the start of its cash flow. That order wording has been there since 2006. And since 2006, the company has raised equity capital from time to time and forestalled that process by using short term advances, typically unsecured, waiting for a particular milestone to occur before we do raise any capital. Now, obviously, the key milestone now is the closing of Tulakapi, which is so close now that we don't plan to make any public raisings pending that partly pending that proceeding.

36:25 And and we we have the access to go and get some short term advantage if we, you know, if we need to sort of drag it out for a month, two months, three months, whatever. But we we've been doing this since 2006. The auditors have been using the same words since 2006. And, frankly, the risks that we've worked through over the past sixteen years are far, far more challenging risks than what we're dealing with today with such a you know, so close really to to triggering development and with so many strong allies and partners and and bankers rolling up their sleeves to do it with us. Next question is, with the price of gold generally rising over recent times, in simple terms, how do you account for the decline in company shares?

37:23 Thought Larry, do you mind do you mind if I answer that one? Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a it's a tricky question because it asks for a simple response, but it's actually a complex question. What affects the share price amongst a multitude of things is consumer consumer investor sentiment, whether somebody wants to be in or out of a sector, portfolio rebalancing, the AIM is down 40% now as the most markets are, or we're a bull market, is risk on, is risk off again. There are enormous amount of factors that affect a a share price include including days, speculators, and traders. No simple answer to that. But gold mining companies don't necessarily have a share price that correlates with the price of gold.

38:15 And you can look at larger companies like Anglo Gold Ashanti or Barrick or others that from time to time just work asynchronously. That's a matter of markets. And if we all understood markets very, very thoroughly, I suppose there could be a correlation. But at the moment, it's an imperfect science or a black art depending on how you want to look at it. The next question that that has risen is, has the security situation along transportation routes improved, and will current environment allow for timely development of Tulla Capi? As I said earlier, the region from Djibouti going West through to the Kemp is all green, and and transport is flowing and has been, for quite some time now, uninterrupted.

39:06 Those route routes routes are typically unaffected by the problems in the North and, down in the West, and it's a free corridor. There are the usual risks on any road, traffic risks, that one has to anticipate but can't always mitigate. They're random acts. But, generally, transportation is good until we get to Neckempt and just after Neckempt. But in those orange zones and patches of red, we have safety and security protocols in place to ensure that we can move forward. Will the current environment allow for timely development of TULLO CAPI? We believe that what we have in place will allow for timely development of Tulip KEFI as we stand now.

39:57 What we can't do is is is foresee the future. Our view is that it will quieten down and become better, but, you know, we've been surprised in the past, and I've been wrong in the past, and we could be wrong again. But as it stands now, we believe that, yes, we can develop Chula Kappa Kappa in a way that meets the schedules. And let's not forget Harry mentioned this earlier, as more activity happens on the ground, we're currently in the process of moving some of the early project affected families from the land. It's a particular piece that we're using as a trial to move forward. For the other 1,500 landholders, as those things become real, communities tend to gather around you and look after you in these environments.

40:51 They give you early warning. They let you know if you're misstepping, and we listen to them quite carefully in that respect. And that's another key aspect our community relations, which also leads me to believe that we can deliver this, you know, reasonably on time and reasonably on budget. That's pretty much it on that subject for me. Over to you again, Harry. Next question is where do you see KEFI in twenty four months? Well, I I think those slides referring to the sequencing of projects and the emergence of value, for one of a better term, I think, are are sort of visually the simplest I can summarize my my vision.

41:46 I think that, you know, those simple slides and simple visions obviously understate the complexity of all the dimensions to what is happening here. And there are a number of things that we do, and we learn from everything we do, and we then bolster up for the next step. And and that's the same with any start up of any business, let alone, you know, fairly complex ones who are affecting the the lives of so many people in so many ways. But I feel very comfortable that there's this mighty weight of support. And even the people who are interfering with us, and I don't wanna dwell on this, there's always interferers when there's a big prize to be had.

42:36 It's not because they're trying to stop it. They just want a piece of the pie. And that that's okay. You see that in all countries. But there's this weight of of pushing now, so I have no doubt that this is going ahead. I think from the point of view of organizational, you know, what happens inside the organization I mean, may Eddie, you wanna make any comments on let me just explain. I I I took off all my internal looking hats, for one of a better expression, and handed them to Eddie a year or so ago. Eddie is an organization developer, systems builder, done it for large groups, small groups for decades. So Eddie is the boss of systems development and team development as we turn this company into what it would be in twenty four months. Eddie?

43:32 The key thing, thanks, Harry, is is, I guess, us, building robust safety systems, environmental systems, and these are not in particular order, and then building capacity in the organization. Some of the questions that we received related around, you know, how do you build a company that hasn't got a history of mining. Firstly, we use expats, but they're tasked to not only to do their work as their skill sets dictate, but also to ensure that they've got backups, local people that they're training, bringing up to speed, and giving experience to so that they can take their own. And we've all already started that process. We have our chief geologist is is an Ethiopian man.

44:23 Our country manager is also Ethiopian. We currently have three expats on board locally, but all of those are now grooming their understudies. And that's massively important as you can imagine because it's it's about how do you operate in any culture, and it doesn't matter. I mean, I'm I moved from Australia to The UK, and I have had to adapt to the cultural differences between, The UK and Australia. And one might say, that's very, very slight. It is, but in some ways, it can be quite profound and misunderstandings can easily arise. Having a cadre of very talented, and very keen Ethiopians working with us and having them take over the reins in due course is massively important. It mitigates risk.

45:10 They teach us a lot. They teach us how to work, how to negotiate, how to integrate into the environment, and we bring along a Western framework around governance, procedures, systems, and and compliance. Yeah. That's about it on organization development. Okay. Question. Various shareholders have sent KEFI information on various media outlets, some free, some paid. We see and we see KEFI stick to just one promoter. Can the board and Harry explain why so many other outlets have not been explored? And will KEFI be stepping up PR?

46:00 I you know, I I've said before, please send any suggestions in. The only suggestions I've seen were, and maybe I overlooked something, were some blog sheets on the continent that we had to translate into other languages. But, you know, in terms of media and and we're happy to do that. I'm not saying we wouldn't do it, but it wasn't to make exactly a major initiative. And perhaps I missed something that I was sent. I don't know. But we it's not right that we use one ad. I don't know what that is referring to. Just yesterday, I was interviewed by Proactive, by Edison, directors talk. When we put an RNS out, it goes out to all the news wires, so it gets picked up by considered by hundreds of media outlets everywhere in the world, and then we'll have to print it.

46:50 So I don't really know what what that's referring to, to be honest. If any journalist wants an interview, they're they're typically granted an interview, very rarely not. So I I don't think that's a fair criticism, to be honest, but, again, I might have overlooked something. And there's this talk of institutional investors and maybe one coming on board. There's been a tier one. I've been asked this question a few times, and I've given the same answer, which is a simple truth. I'm aware of a few institutions on the board. They don't have to declare themselves unless they're over 3%. And if their shareholding is held in two or three independently run funds with different boards of trustees, they don't declare over 3% because they're not.

47:41 That's it. I'm I'm aware of a handful of institutions on the register, but clearly, they don't meet the requirements to have to declare themselves. And clearly, they're they're staying under the radar until they see what happens as to whether they get more involved or not, I suppose, but I can't speak for them. But, certainly, a junior stock is not the nest is not the natural home for institutional investment capital. And whilst the AIM market and junior mining stocks at AIM plummeted really recently, the only thing that's particularly happened to us is that volumes have gone up. So I suppose it's because of people suffering the need to liquefy and about to sell the stocks they can liquefy.

48:30 But but these companies of this scale are too small for institution unless they particularly want to get involved as it emerges. And I I like to think at least that what these institutions on the register are saying is that there's serious business agendas, you know, unfolding before us and being tackled by us and that they can get more involved as it moves forward. That's what I I can only assume that's why they're there. But, you know, at the moment, it's a bit frustrating, I suppose, for the person who wrote the question because you can't see them. Mean, Rad Capital is there for one, but you can't see the others. Next one is can you update shareholders on any progress that's being made of seeking a dual listing on the Saudi exchange and maybe shed light on best expectations on when this may happen?

49:27 Do you have a target date? It's it's, you know, I think speaking as someone who's been been involved with listed companies in Australia, UK, and Canada. I I can say, you know, with obvious sincerity that we always are open minded to look at any possibilities. The thing that stood out this year is about Saudi Arabia, and which is why it sort of popped up on the radar of the questioner and ourselves, is that all of a sudden Saudi Arabia, which has always been massively prospective, but also never before been open to business, really, for this sector.

50:18 Not only is it open to business, but every second person in the mining space is talking about it now, literally, pretty well everywhere you go. It's pub talk all over the world, so to speak. And so, yes, we are looking at it. Yes. We are getting our head around it, understanding it. It's it you know, first things first, the the the first thing one has to do is is hit hit one or two of these milestones, and and then you unveil the next steps, the next set of capital providers. But the really critical thing here is that whilst whilst AIM is so down in the dumps, it's palpable. I mean, you must all know that. In Saudi Arabia and even in Ethiopia, believe it or not, there are local investors who want to be involved.

51:12 And there's abundance of capital in Saudi Arabia, but a dearth of mining expertise and experience. So we are we've we're fortunate that we have relationships in Saudi Arabia. I spend a fair bit of time in Saudi Arabia. So we're building on those relationships and and trying to understand. And before we make public comments about objectives and targets, we have a bit more to learn to understand exactly how one goes about it with the right backing at the right moment for the benefit of everybody. A long answer, but it's not an overnight thing. You have to understand how to get set properly and explain it properly when when we've reached some clarity of thought on the matter. That's our topic.

52:05 Next question is that we bid for sorry. In Saudi press reports in Saudi state that our G and M partnership, our company there, are one of the two companies left bidding for the Saudi Amda Amad Damad mining license. And a previous similar license went to a bidder at an auction for 60,000,000. How would we finance 30%? I think the answer to that, Harry, is we wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn't. We we we we don't we don't have to pay for licenses, but, you know, the Saudi authorities are still sort of experimenting with how to open up the sector.

52:55 The interesting thing about the the $60,000,000 auction was that it it puts another interesting little number on something that's not too too similar to one of our projects. And, you know, the whole thing, not even probably recognized at all in our stock market today. That's why and I think, you know, it reminds me that the the reader the the questioner the previous questioner was asking about Saudi, and and and it's a very, very preoccupying topic. You know, you're on the money, whoever asked the question. We're just trying to understand it before we sprout about it. But it's you know, there's only two listed mining companies in Saudi Arabia. It's the birth of a sector.

53:49 One's a government owned company, control company. The other one the other one is a mini version of G and M, mini in the sense of its resource base. Its main asset is about a quarter of the resource base of Hawea, and its other asset is a bit less advanced than Jibel Kutman. It's gold. Good people, good company, in production. They're actually in production. That's a big thing. But as I say, relatively small compared to what we have already in G and M, and it's kept at 1,500,000,000. Clearly, the person who asked the question has, you know, picked up on this or something about that. And and what it's telling you is that the capital is the capital in Saudi Arabia is chasing the mining sector.

54:44 And whereas, you know, in in London, it's a bit of a survival test at the moment for most investors. So, you know, it is a serious topic, and we're extremely well positioned in Saudi. The next two development assets in the country are ours. So it's it's you know, we will do something about it. Question is about warrants. I fear we will struggle to reach the trigger for the warrants. Previously, any spike has been sharply reversed by a deeply discounted placing or bad news. Well, you know, I I don't know if that's a question. I don't It says long time holders happen will be different this time.

55:34 I don't know really what to say. All I can say is that the the stock wants to run, and we have to execute our closings properly so that the pressure is not on our stock, but the pressure is relieved from the stock. And that's what we're working on. And when when apparently rumors were running around for a day or two earlier in the year, which coinciding with us raising some money at full market pricing with no discounts, I must say. As we were closing our deal at full market pricing with no discounts, the price that it had been for months, the stock took off because of some rumor about that Saudi story I just told you, I gather.

56:24 Mhmm. That was based on some, you know, bit of market gossip from some other company in Saudi Arabia. So the the stock wants to run. It wants to go with us, but it needs to see the evidence. You know? And that's fair enough. But, you know, all all I can say is that fear doesn't come into it. You know? You you make a judgment. You judge it objectively, and you you go with where your judgment determines. And if it's a fearful decision, it's not the right decision. We're not fearful. We're dealing with it, and it will happen. And the stock will follow when it's ready. The next question is a lot of investors, whatever reason, were shocked how the share price crashed from $1.45 to a lows of fifties on the last placing. The board made three excuses.

57:18 This is a whinge question. It's not a question. Board was clearly able to back go back to the group syndicate and raise an extra 20,000,000. Why can't you adjust the placing prices? Well, I'll say it again, but please, you know, can we move on? This is you're talking about a question of something that happened in April. But for months, we were watching the market. We're keeping the market fully informed. We went out at no discount to market. I'll say it again. No discount to market. We were starting to assemble a book. As we'd assembled the book, the price took off based on some rumor about another stock in another country. I don't know how it started or why it was driven like that.

58:07 I I got no idea. And it looked it was embarrassing. It looked terrible, but it was not our doing. And the stock just immediately pulled back to the placing price. Mhmm. As simple as that, which is and I sort of stand by my previous explanation. The stock wants to run when it's got the evidence of real performance and real milestones, and that will happen. Another mining company last week was able to do a placing and managed to do a placing at only 2.5 below the share price. This was clearly a good deal for the company and shareholders alike. Can't although you can't comment on individual companies' credit ratings, but you did the placing in April to reflect high nature of lending in KEFI at the time.

58:58 Maybe KEFI can too demand a better rate today instead of doing deeply discounted with heavy dilution. We're not planning any even. We're not sure to do a deeply discounted placing or anything. I don't know. It's I think the the the point is right. The yeah. Shareholders shareholders can buy in the market any time. They could have bought in the market in in January, February, March, April at point eight. They could have. We were placing at point eight, and because some guy ran the stock for a couple of days, we got criticized. Today, the shareholders could buy in the market at whatever the price is today, and then the same in six months' time. It's a truism that I I we're not planning and placing, so please don't be paranoid about it.

59:48 Next question is about my personal bonuses. Yeah. Perhaps I should take that question, Harry. As a company, as you'd expect, as a company, we benchmark salaries for all our employees annually. We look at how we are to other companies of our size of the market and also what we can afford. We make records recommendations to the KEFI board. It goes to the remuneration committee, and the remuneration committee decides what they'll accept and whatnot. That is the process. That's the process in every public listed company that I'm aware of, and that remains the the process for us. It's transparent.

1:00:34 It's a well worn path. It's well known. And if anybody has any questions or concerns about it, I Harry, I think I'd urge them to contact one of our nonexecutive directors through the the info at, KEFI GOLD AND COPPER link on the website. I'm sure they'd be happy to answer any concerns that you've got. Okay. Thanks, Eddie. The only thing I'd say is, you know, I founded the company. I I didn't take a dollar out of the company for the first eight years. No fees, no salaries. You know, why why would I wanna damage the company? I mean, it's just it's it's not coming from the right place, the question, in my judgment. But it please, it is transparent, and please write to the nonexecs. Ask anything, really.

1:01:23 Next question. It's a cultural it's organizational development. I don't know if you've covered this already, Eddie. Would you like to read it out and then comment? Yeah. We're trained to the cultural challenges of getting first tier performance in countries where the industry is new, especially Ethiopia, which does not have a developed business culture in rural areas, where KEFI operates, what you expect and what you we get must be very different things. How confident are you that we can deal with these challenges and perform to plan a budget? I'm gonna go off paced a little bit here. I did work many, many years ago for a steel company called Nucor in The United States. Now in Alabama, as I recall, in a rural community. They had a modern steel manufacturing plant in rural Alabama with no skilled labor.

1:02:18 But what they did have is they had very good processes. They had good relationships with their with their employees. They paid minimum wage, but they had a good incentive bonus scheme and all the right policies in place for people to air grievances, and they produced above and beyond anything that I'd ever seen anywhere in the world. In fact, were competing with the Taiwanese at the time for steel. The point of that is that, you know, we intend building a robust environment for employees to perform. We're currently sponsoring a charitable endowment.

1:03:04 It has one of the mandates is to form training for local people, call it artisans, you know, when there are trades people of all different sorts. We're engaging with the universities in the area to make sure we get training and we're building personnel management systems right now based on some long standing philosophies that that that we've used in the past to reward and remunerate people when the company performs well. All those help us and and believe me, when there's when there's the right environment, people will perform. And if they see it in their interest, in their family's interest, they will perform readily, and they learn very, very quickly. We have a very we're actually quite lucky. There are enormous amount of very talented and very well educated people in the area that we're working in, all waiting for a challenge and waiting for for a job where, you know, they can plan out the next ten, fifteen, twenty years of their lives.

1:04:03 So, yes, it will be a challenge, but, you know, life's a challenge. But it's one that that we believe very strongly that we can surmount. And as Harry said earlier, there's this enormous weight pushing behind us of people that want to contribute. The church is with us and behind us. Some of the banks are behind us and wanted to do some of the education pieces. There are so many people now wanting to contribute in this. Our job really is to corral all these resources and make sure we stay focused and on message and on point. Thanks, Eddie. Mark, we've just gone just over an hour, and I haven't had a chance to see how many additional questions there are that we haven't touched on.

1:04:52 Is there anything there as organizer that you you think is a burning question we really should answer? Other and and and if if and when there isn't, we could undertake to look at them and and answer them in writing later, but I don't wanna keep it more than an hour unless there's something burning there. No. Great, Harry. Thank you. There there's a a number of questions. So thank you to Matthew, David, Steve, John, Jim, Barry, and so on and so forth, Frank. I think you've touched on some of the items, although I think that there probably will be some here that you might wanna review when you've got a little bit more time. And as I said, we can publish responses to these questions after today's event, and then we'll notify everybody on the call when they're ready for their review. There were a couple of questions about listings.

1:05:39 You know, is AIM the best market? This is from David M. Thank you, David. Is AIM the best market for KEFI? Are there plans to list on another market? Maybe that's one that we could just maybe wrap up on. Yeah. Well, it's a good question, and a lot of my colleagues are asking me about it because it it's it's it stood out like proverbials over the last six months. That's that you've got people in our region who now look at us I don't wanna sound conceited, but they look at us with some respect because we've done what we've done, and we're ready to develop such important projects for the countries, both of them.

1:06:31 And particularly in Saudi, there's mountains of capital in an international capital market. The world's list the world's largest listed company is a SADA company. And and so you you and and so little of the money is reliant on the AI market. And the AIM market at the moment, I mean, no disrespect, but, boy, it's tough out there. You guys must know about it better than me. But it's like dog eat dog out on the street in this AIM market. It's a completely different place to the positivity that surrounds us in the regions where our assets are. So it it begs the obvious question.

1:07:19 But I I'd rather not postulate an answer until we understand what it means and how how to go about it properly. But it begs the obvious question. That's great. Well, Harry, as you say, thank you very much indeed for your time and, Eddie, for your time this afternoon and for investors for their questions for which, as we said, we'll make those available responses available when Harry's had a chance to review. Harry, I know investor feedback is important. There's lots of people on today's call that I'm sure are keen to give you their thoughts and expectations. But I wonder before doing so, if I may, Harry, just ask you for a few closing comments to wrap up with, and then I'll redirect investors to give you their feedback. Well, I I appreciate all the interest and, you know, and I apologize that the the the, you know, the the tiresome timelines involved with these things much longer than I anticipated, which I suppose is a failing of a natural optimist who wants to build businesses and create value.

1:08:16 I admit that. But then again, if I wasn't a natural optimist, I probably jumped off a building a long time ago and wouldn't have had a go at any of these things. I feel personally very proud of what we've done and where where we're going despite all the frustrations. But I think that it takes a certain caliber and type of people, and I can say that we have that in the company. And we have very trusting relationships. We were, in many ways, beaten up last year. I don't mean by stock market stuff. I mean, literally, my, you know, threats and other things on the ground. Nobody was hurt in the end, but we had to manage it very carefully. And I think those experiences living through the trials and tribulations of a frontier market, but coming out as a backer, as a supporter with teams in place, with partners and banks in place, has actually won us a lot more kudos than otherwise might have been the case. So, hopefully, some good comes of that.

1:09:22 I think it should. But I've got no doubt, you know, the next few years is gonna be a lot of work, a lot of implementation, but it'll be like a breath of fresh air compared to the last few years in my view. That's great. Harry, Eddie, thank you once again for your time this afternoon and for updating investors. Can I please ask investors on the call not to close this session as we'll now automatically redirect you for the opportunity to provide your feedback and all the management team can better understand your views and expectations? On behalf of the management team of KEFI GOLD AND COPPER, we'd like to thank you for attending this afternoon's presentation. I wish you all a pleasant rest of your day.