Itm Power (LSE:ITM) — Interim Results

0:02 Good afternoon, and welcome to the ITM POWER PLC interim results investor presentation. Today's session will run for about thirty minutes. And throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged, can be submitted at any time via the Q and A tab situated in the right hand corner of your screen. Just click q and a, scroll to the bottom, type your question, and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to doctor Graham Cooley,

0:33 CEO, and Andy Allen, CFO. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Hello, everyone, and thanks very much for joining this call. So first thing to say is that this will be a relatively short and concise presentation because we gave our trading update only six weeks ago. So this is a presentation for the results for the six month period ending the end of October twenty twenty one. I'm gonna start with a presentation and then hand over to Andy Allen, our chief financial officer. So we were delighted actually to make the announcement of our interims this morning, particularly to bring to attention the market to the market of a 24 megawatt industrial electrolyzer and our first industrial electrolyzer in the ammonia market.

1:31 So just a a quick introduction to ITM POWER. You know, ITM is an electrolyzer manufacturer. This year, we moved into sorry. Last year, we moved into the world's largest electrolyzer factory. We are scaling the production of PEM electrolysis, and and our partner, Linda Engineering, is scaling the deployment. We have a very well articulated road map to increase capacity to five gigawatts per annum by the end of twenty twenty four. And we raised the resources in October of last year to achieve this. So the period that we've been in now is a period of delivery.

2:17 It's all about execution, sticking to mission and our road map and converting from pipeline through to sales and recognize revenue. So just a quick year on year comparators. So work in progress, that is sales. That is megawatts that are under contract and being manufactured in the factory stands at 86 megawatts. It's up 300% year on year. Contract backlog, this is those contracts, a combination of work in progress in the final stages of negotiation and also preferred supply status.

3:11 That's up 200%, stands at 499 megawatts. And the tender pipeline, that is the number of quotations we've made against commercial tenders over the last twelve months, is eight eighty megawatts, up 166%. So I think strong and solid progress at all levels. In terms of the backlog and the tender pipeline over the six week period almost unchanged. And actually, the six week period that we've been in since the trading update, Christmas and the New Year, And we've clearly had a reduced amount of activity over that period.

4:05 The significant change, and you can see it in the graph and the orange lines, is is the change in the work in progress. And we're seeing very solid growth in converting contracts that are in the final stages of negotiation to full sales and announcing those. And the the change you can see there is the 24 megawatt deal, which for ITM is is a an important project. It's an important project because it it's the first large scale industrial ammonia electrolyzer. It's the ammonia is one of the largest sectors in industrial hydrogen.

4:53 And today, between seventy and seventy five million tons of hydrogen is sold into the industrial sector. Broadly speaking, half of it is ammonia and half of it is refining. And with today's announcement, we have a key reference plant now in the ammonia industry, and we also have a key reference plant with Shell in the refining industry as well. So an important project, an important reference plant, and also you'll be finding out soon who the industrial partner is, and it's a very important industrial partner in the area of ammonia production. In terms of driving forward cost reduction standardization, it's also important.

5:44 24 megawatt electrolyzer is actually a replica of the project, which we're doing with Linde Engineering. It means that we don't have to go through a process of nonrecurring engineering costs and and any design specifics on-site. It means that we are driving standardization in the balance of plant and also achieving cost reduction. And and because of the standardization of this 24 megawatt deployment, it means that we can bid more rapidly, and we understand the terms and conditions as well. So useful in terms of reducing engineering costs, standardization, and also bidding.

6:38 So I've shown you this slide before, but just so you understand the effect of standardization. If you want to drive down the cost of green hydrogen, get to the lowest levelized cost of hydrogen to the customer. You work on three levels, and we derive competitive advantage at all three levels. So the first one of those is production costs, and and it's by far the most important. So that's the cost of the renewable power and the effectiveness by which you convert it to renewable molecules. So that's all about technology and performance.

7:19 Lowest full system price is the next. And actually, the standardization now means that we can bid 24 megawatt machines going forward into industrial applications and also a 100 megawatt machines with the standardization achieved in the FEED study from the refined project. And then operational excellence and actually understanding how you operate electrolysis equipment and in the industrial environment and how you make the most of things like grid balancing and grid service payments. But at lowest levelized cost of hydrogen, it is the requirement of every customer in any industry.

8:10 And actually, what we've seen is a very strong dynamic in the energy industry, certainly over the last year, but more importantly, literally over the last couple of months. So first thing to say is that green hydrogen comes down in cost as renewable power comes down in cost. And, actually, its parity with the cost of gray hydrogen and blue hydrogen has has been achieved in many parts of the world with the increase in the cost of natural gas. Of course, the feedstock for green hydrogen is renewable power, and the feedstock for gray and blue hydrogen is natural gas. And renewable power has come down rapidly in price, and natural gas has gone up in price.

9:02 So you've seen that parity crossover. Also, the volatility of green hydrogen and its price is very low. If you connect an electrolyzer via a power purchase agreement directly to a renewable source, then you get extremely low price volatility. And this is increasingly important as we look at the volatility of the price of natural gas. You also get fuel security, and you also get improved balance of payments because you're making the green hydrogen in country, and that means you're not importing fuels. And, of course, we've an intensification in the geopolitics of using natural gas, and we've also seen the increase in carbon pricing moving to a level not seen before between 80 and €100 per metric ton of c o two.

10:06 So we have some some important drivers. All of the arrows are now in the right direction for green hydrogen. Price parity, low price volatility, energy security, balance of payments advantages, and it's the only zero carbon energy gas. And all of these dynamics are playing out now with policymakers, particularly in Europe. So I'm gonna hand over now to Andy who's gonna talk us through the results. Thanks, Graham. Good afternoon, everybody. So I'm gonna got three slides. One is the interim results, one on guidance for the full year, and finally, little bit about the next UK factory that we have. So in terms of the interim results, total revenue for the period was £4,200,000, up from naught 200,000 the year before.

11:02 We had an adjusted EBITDA loss of about £13,000,000, which was an increased loss compared to 10,400,000 in the same period a year ago. And some of that is about being investment part, but it's also about getting capability in place so that we can address demand as it comes through. In terms of the balance sheet at the period end, we had cash of a £167,000,000. That doesn't include the money raised, in autumn last year, which actually hit the bank in November. So the the cash balance as of today's date is just about £390,000,000.

11:36 So we are well placed to execute on this manufacturing expansion we've got coming up. In the first six months of this financial year, we had a cash burn of £12,000,000 which is down from £14,000,000 the period before.

11:52 In terms of guidance the full year, we had a plan for completed product production of between thirty three and fifty megawatts. And in fact, we we're steering towards the middle of that range in terms of products that will be completed. And in terms of core stacks, which can go into any of our products, we'll be producing in excess of 55 megawatts, and that's reiterated from previous announcements. The revenue, we've always said, will be heavily weighted to the second half of this financial year, and and we're now saying, actually, it's gonna be in q four twenty twenty two. So revenue recognition for ITM POWER is about fulfilling every obligation in the contract and recognizing all of the revenue at that single point in time. So we have to build fully factory tested and packaged products ready for dispatch, and then we would recognize the revenue.

12:43 Now the one specific here is the product, standard modules, 24 megawatts, which are due to complete in late April. In terms of overheads and cash burn, the fundraise at the end of last year set us up for a technology road map and a design and product development road map, which accelerates. So you would expect to see overheads and cash burn running at a slightly higher rate than it did in the first six months of the year. And then there are two other features which would affect cash. One is that we will be building to inventory, including those 55 megawatts of stacks. And secondly, we might be buying the land for the second UK gigafactory within the financial year.

13:26 And that land is Aviation Park, and it's about a mile and a half from Bessemer Park. And you can see the design here. It's twice the size of Bessemer Park at 265,000 feet, and we'll update as we go through the process. But we've got engaged with principal contractors for early studies and early early work to make sure that we get spades in the ground in the second half of twenty twenty two. I'll hand back to Graham for a summary.

13:55 Thanks, Andy. So just a quick summary then. We were delighted this morning to be able to announce the first industrial electrolyzer at a an an ammonia plant. We're looking forward to being able to talk to you about the partner. We have a very strong balance sheet, a very well articulated plan to get to five gigawatts per annum of manufacturing capacity by the end of twenty twenty four. And I

14:25 think the industry is now experiencing very strong market and policy momentum, particularly driven by the macro energy picture. Outlook for the year, you'll see space in the ground. But with the second ITM POWERED gigafactory, you'll see developments in our pipeline. You will see the way that the sales progress from being in the tender pipeline and in the final stages of negotiation. And you'll see further strategic recruitment. We we've spent some considerable time building a very, very experienced team in ITM POWER with the acquisition of some important experience and skills, and you'll see that continue as we go forwards.

15:21 So looking forward to your questions. Fantastic. Thank you, doctor Cooley. Andy, thank you very much indeed for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, do please continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab situated on the top right hand corner of your screen. Just while the team take a few moments to review those questions submitted already, I'd like to remind you the recording of the presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via investor dashboard. I'd now like to hand over to Simon Hudson to pose your questions to the ITM POWER team where it's appropriate to do so. Simon, perhaps if I could hand to you and if you could read out the questions where appropriate to do so, that'd be great. Thank you.

15:59 Thanks, Paul. I'm going to start with the pre submitted questions and then move on to the ones that have come from the last fifteen, twenty minutes. First one, Graham, once you're at five gigawatts capacity, how much revenue would you expect that capacity to deliver?

16:19 Yes. So in the funding round, we actually produced this slide with the model of a two and a half gigawatt factory. I'll I'll I'll hand over to Andy so he can talk to you about the exact revenues and so on. But that slide is still on our website,

16:42 and it it provides investors with a a total view of what model looks like for a two and a half gigawatt country. Andy, do you want to talk through the revenue numbers? Yeah. So the slide models a 2.5 gigawatt factory, and it shows that the revenue for that factory at full run rate, which we're putting at between 8590% utilization, was just over £400,000,000 of revenue. So for five gigawatts capacity, we're looking between $850,000,000 and £900,000,000 of revenue.

17:18 Thank you.

17:20 What impact, if any, are you seeing on from higher input prices on operations? And where are those impacts being seen? And how are you dealing with them? So if the if you're talking about inflation, I think that the key input price when you're looking at production of green hydrogen is the renewable energy. And, you know, with the PPA, that prices remain low because you're not connecting to the grid. Inflation has affected more than anything else the energy prices associated with natural gas, as I said earlier.

18:06 So I think the dynamic is very strong in the direction green hydrogen from an energy gas point of view. If we're talking about electrolysis equipment and the materials that go into the electrolyzer, I think that volatility in that market, it does actually play out as a competitive advantage to ITM. We we've been driving down costs of our modules. Linda have been driving down costs of the balanced plant. And we do derive considerable competitive advantage if there's volatility in that supply chain. So I I we're not changing our cost reduction numbers.

18:56 We're we're on target with cost reduction feeling

19:02 like we're in a very strong position as far as the supply market is concerned.

19:08 Anything to add to that, Andy? No, I think that's good answer, Graham. Okay, let's move on. Do you see the current pricing of fossil fuels speeding up the adoption of green hydrogen?

19:23 Should they be sustained? Yeah. Definitely. I mean, it's I

19:30 pointed that out in slide, and I think it's a very strong dynamic for Greenville. It certainly focused the mind of policymakers on price, but also volatility and security.

19:45 How are you targeting the best use cases for green hydrogen?

19:51 How are we targeting the best use cases?

19:53 And and what do you think those are?

19:56 Yeah. So look, this is a market pull, not a technology push. And and and in that sense, it's not us targeting markets. It's much more that certain markets are pulling rather than we're pushing into those markets. I mean, the the the entry market and the very strong market for green hydrogen is replacing gray hydrogen industry. This is refining in ammonia right now, and that's why we're we're so pleased about our first large scale industrial electrolyzer in the ammonia industry. What what do I what do we think are the adoption markets? Well, that's one thing, and and industrial hydrogen is the answer.

20:45 Where is the pull coming from is more important. Where are customers buying?

20:50 And And I think if you look back at our trading update, you will actually see us break out the tender pipeline to show you which markets those are. And they are the industrial hydrogen sector.

21:08 Okay. Inevitable question. Has the large recent fall in the share price harmed your reputation and business opportunities?

21:18 I mean, the share price is not something that is of particular interest to our customers. Our reputation in the industry is very strong, and and our industrial partners are interested in the cost structure, the performance, after sales support, scalability, manufacturing, strength of balance sheet, all of those things where ITM have got a very, very good reputation. Nobody's interested in the share price apart from the city, which for obvious reasons. So no, it hasn't.

22:01 Thank you. Have you decided on a location yet for the international gigafactory? And do you see a material opportunity for ITM POWER in Chile or Latin America medium, long term?

22:15 And it's quite a long question, this one. What read across do you see for ITM POWER from the positioning of Linda in Oman? In its recent report, Arena noted 43 gigascale production projects being progressed globally.

22:30 How many plus gigawatt projects could ITM POWER be in by about, say, 2030?

22:39 Okay. I think that's three questions, is it? Yes, it is. That's okay. So so starting with the first one,

22:48 we haven't selected the location for the next for the two and a half gigawatt international factory right now. We are certainly there are some areas of the world that are looking very, very interesting. It will be demand driven, and it will be partnership driven, and it will be a straight commercial decision about where we do that. And if we had decided, I think it's probably price sensitive, and so it would be subject of an announcement. And it's not the sort of thing I'd be able to comment on a call like this because of its price sensitive nature. But, look, to answer one of the other questions as well in the list, Chile is very interesting.

23:34 You know, Chile has very low cost, high load factor renewable power. That means you can make very low cost green hydrogen there.

23:44 And if you also have the associated low cost green ammonia, then you can export from that country, the export, the renewable energy. So So is Chile interesting? Yes, it is.

23:58 Is do we have a strong presence in Chile? Well, Linda Gas supplies all of the industrial hydrogen to the refining sector in Chile. The national oil and gas company in Chile is called, Linda are the hydrogen supplier to that company. So is that area of interest? Yes. It is. And and you will note that we had the Chilean energy minister visit ITM's Gigafactory. So that's one area that that's interesting. Other parts of South America, by the way, are interesting. So it gives you the opportunity to center a factory and then export from it.

24:43 The US is very interesting. The Biden administration, the bipartisan infrastructure bill allocating 9,000,000,000 9,500,000,000 to green hydrogen. Also, what's called the Earthshot to reduce the cost of green hydrogen US. The Middle East is very interesting. To pick up your question about, Linda, in Oman, all over The Middle East now, there is a realization there. I mean, The Middle East is those nations, the wealth is derived from their natural resources based on fossil fuels. They have a new and important natural resource to focus on, and that is solar.

25:31 And how would you export solar power? Well, you make hydrogen

25:38 and or ammonia, and that's your export vehicle for that energy. The Middle East is a very important territory. And then finally, but last but by no means least is Europe. We we partner with Linda, with Shell, with with Spam. Europe, very, very strong industrial partners across Europe. So and then, of course, The UK, our home market with with a five gigawatt target where there's more and more emphasis now on green hydrogen and less and less emphasis on blue hydrogen for the obvious reasons of cost.

26:27 So all over the world now, we see opportunities. And when we hone down on which one we think is the best opportunity, we will be doing a commercial deal.

26:44 Thank you. Next question. I've read that five U. K. Gas grid companies are aiming to mix 20% hydrogen into the gas grid in 2023 after the success of High Deploy. Do you see ITM POWER being involved with this rollout or at least tendering for the contracts associated with it? Yes. I mean injecting 20% hydrogen into the gas grid is an astonishingly large amount of energy.

27:13 You know, there's 900 terawatt hours of of energy flows through the gas grid. It it it's a it's a very significant amount of electrolysis. And and to supply all of that, you would be into the billions of sales.

27:31 It won't happen overnight. What it means is the legislation is in place to build up that amount in the gas grid. Will we be involved? Very definitely. We did all the trials with Northern Gas Networks, with Cadence.

27:46 And you will see, I think, large industrials moving to the space. And yes, we will be involved. Okay. Moving on to questions from the floor today. From the report, can you explain why the 179% increase in backlog and pipeline megawatts only results in a 16% increase in financial return. Yes. This is probably one for Andy. I mean the more we deliver on our cost reduction and drive up volumes, of course, cost reduction and product mix are very important here. Product mix is significant because smaller projects

28:33 that are containerized units have the full balance of plant in them. And as you move to much larger and larger projects, you have a kicking in of cost reduction. So it's about product mix and about cost reduction. Andy, do you wanna say some more?

28:52 Yes. So it's a year on year comparison. So the product mix point is is key. If you looked a year ago, we would only had a MEP mega stack product, whereas what's been happening throughout 2021 is us quoting the larger giga stack platform, GEB product, which again brings its own economies of scale and cost reductions. So the product mix points is the big one there.

29:19 Okay. Given the current or the recent share price weakness, would you consider share buybacks?

29:28 Yeah, mean share buyback, I mean investors invested in ITM to deploy capital to get to five gigawatts per annum of electrolysis at the best lowest cost electrolyzer in the world. That's our mission, and that's the mission we're delivering on. We We articulated, I think, very well what we were gonna do with the money, and that's what we will do with the money. And and those investment funds and investors

29:59 invested in ITM POWER are able to balance their own portfolios in a much more expert way than we are. Buying equity is not the business we're in. And developing and building electrolyzers and delivering to industrial customers is the business we're in. Okay.

30:23 Given the relatively poor performance to date anyway of carbon capture and storage, do you think governments around the world are coming under increasing pressure to support green hydrogen against blue and in particular the UK government? Yeah. I do. Actually, I I think that whoever asked that question, it's a good observation. What we see in government, actually, you you know, the the strategy that was developed, blue and green as a dual track. Of course, if you go back a couple of years before that strategy was developed, it was all blue hydrogen and carbon capture and storage. And and and you're going back to a generation of technology advisers that were in the old fossil fuel industry.

31:13 Now you fast forward, and we we we're looking at net zero. 80% decarbonization isn't good enough. You need net zero. And and so what you're seeing is is a kind of couple of years delay in the penny dropping. And the penny's now really dropped because of the price of natural gas. And and also, there's a whole new generation of technology, business advisers, and civil servants who are on the net zero journey. And they're they're, I would say, a generation which is younger, more dynamic, and understanding what we need for the future. So I I do see that change in government. Yes.

32:02 Excellent. You've got a very strong cash position. Are you fully funded to execute on your five gigawatt production capacity plan? Yes, we are.

32:16 That was an easy one. The new 24 megawatt green ammonia project, is it contingent on any public sector financial support? And could it, like refine, have scope for it to be increased with expansion phases?

32:33 Yes. I think, look, we have a very significant industrial partner. And that significant industrial partner would need to communicate any of that stuff to the market. I I can't I can't add any more to the announcement we've made than what we've agreed to say this morning. And there may be further announcements coming. Thank you. Given the increase in the price of natural gas per therm, at what price of natural gas does green hydrogen reach parity with blue and gray? Yes. So you can't just use the price of natural gas. You have to use the price of renewable power as well to get the parity point. So in the case of green hydrogen, the feedstock is renewable power and water, and the capital investment is an electrolyzer.

33:42 And in the case of gray hydrogen, the feedstock is natural gas. And and, of course, you have to add in the carbon price and the reformer and steam and steam raising. At what point do they crossover? So everybody used to say it was around 1.5 to $2 a kilogram as the crossover point if you take into account carbon pricing as well. It's about four times that now. So although the whole green hydrogen industry was running for about $2 a kilogram, you know, the the price that the market can hold is now much higher.

34:30 And so consequently, the crossover means that everybody who was planning green hydrogen projects has now an additional impetus to get on and do it in the shorter term. Thank you. There are a number of electrolyzer manufacturers with aggressive capacity expansion plans. How do you assess the risk that the price of electrolyzers will be forced down as solar panels were? I mean, I I think the key word in that question is plans. They they do have a lot of plans. I see plans everywhere. I see press releases, MOUs, LOIs, plans, people giving large numbers about what they're gonna do. We're in a gigafactory.

35:23 We're delivering from it. The numbers are going up. It's solid delivery that we're in. So, you know, plans are plans. Delivery is another thing. Okay. How can we best understand the plans and follow progress for commercializing the five megawatt stack? Yeah. I mean, the the the five megawatt stack, you know, is already being bid into projects. It it does relate to the development of our new premises as well. Andy, do you wanna just say a little bit more about timescales? Yeah. Sure. So we can manufacture small batches in Bessemer Park, but really, the steel here is the semi automated line manufacturer that we're looking for is going be in Aviation Park, which is 1.5 gigawatt factory.

36:19 Now that's going to conclude in Q4 twenty twenty three and be up and running at the end of that year. Okay. You said today that recruitment will continue this year. Can you tell us a little bit more about what skills are still needed across the group? And are these skills in short supply? Yes. I think there not really experiencing a skill shortage. I know some other companies aren't that. We we have developed the business to the point where, you know, very senior managers in other industries are really very keen to join ITM, actually. So we get great response to any recruitment that we're doing. We we've we've attracted some very significant skills and experience from the automotive industry, the aviation industry, manufacturing, sales and marketing, IR.

37:24 I mean, it is we're now in a different position. This is all about being a significant player in the energy transition and actually being a very, very desirable employer, not just from the point of view of ITM as a manufacturer, but also because people feel inspired to make a contribution to the energy transition. I mean, I you know, for all of us, actually, the mission that ITM is on, it's incredibly exciting journey, and that is bringing great people to the company. Do you have any plans to use renewables yourselves in the gigafactories?

38:16 Are you going to install rooftop PVs or otherwise make use of net zero renewables in your own manufacturing operations? Yes. I'll let Andy talk about what we're going to be doing at the new factory. But the answer is yes. I mean, look, the the the it's worth broadening out that question, actually. You know, we have ESG obligations as a as a company. We we develop targets for all aspects of our business. We we need to be able to define the embedded carbon in our product. We need to develop a circular economy around our product, and we need to drive down not only costs and drive up volume, but also reduce our carbon impact as a company.

39:07 And every single manufacturer worldwide is gonna have to do this, and it's a very important aspect of the future. So, yeah, we take that what you've just said incredibly seriously. But, Andy, do you do you wanna talk about renewables? Well, yeah. I I think I mean, it's it starts with the design of the factories. So we're going for an excellent BREEM rating, which kicks us off in a good place. We're gonna look at PV panels on the top. We're also gonna look at using the hydrogen out of the test facility so that we can really bring, you know, as much renewable energy and use to to the sites. We'll also be using a renewable PPA for the power that that that energizes the test base. So it's a holistic approach to the build of the factory. We've got our opportunity because we're buying the land. We're building it all ourselves, and we're looking for a really good solution there.

40:04 Okay. I'm I'm conscious that we've now overrun our our time slot, but let's do a couple more questions. What are your feelings about the hydrogen transport market currently? Yes. So we transferred all of our hydrogen refueling stations into our wholly owned subsidiary called ITM POWER PLC. We we employed a great MD for ITM POWER PLC. And the the strategy for motive going forward is about refueling heavy vehicles that return to base, that's buses, trucks, trains, and so on. We are in discussions with the Department of Transport and Bays and the UK government in general about incentivizing green hydrogen in transport.

40:58 And there are the RTFO, that's a renewable transport fuels obligation or RTFCs, which is the certificates, are in consultation right now. And it is an important market for a green hydrogen on-site production when you're talking about those heavy vehicles. What you need to build a refueling station, hydrogen refueling is an anchor customer that gives you a solid rate of return on your investment. And then everything else can be sold as a swing fuel for other vehicles. So that's the strategy and we are moving forward with that strategy.

41:50 Penultimate question. To what extent are you worried about new hydrogen production technologies which could potentially undermine ITM POWER's PEM technology? Yeah. I mean, I I often get questions and and and certainly, Simon Borne, our chief technology officer, gets lots of questions about announcements that are made from research institutes and universities and start up companies and all those kinds of things. And and, actually, you know, hydrogen is is a very important industry, and I hope they're all successful. This is such an astonishingly large and is moving very, very quickly.

42:35 I've I we're not concerned about competition. We're not concerned about new technologies right now. A lot of them are a long way out. But and there will be new entrants and there will be new technologies. But the solution we've got is an incredibly important one, and it's ready now, and we're rolling it out. Okay. Very last question and sorry for overrunning. Would ITM POWER ever consider licensing your manufacturing of modules to service international markets? So the licensing model is actually quite a difficult one, particularly in the early days of manufacturing.

43:21 So we're scaling manufacturing investment Park, and then we'll be more fully automating in Aviation Park. And and you can license too early. There are all sorts of improvements that you can make. And if you license your technology too early, then others who are manufacturing it will make those improvements. Now you can try and manage an improvements pool, but actually, it's very, very difficult to not lose control of your technology. And so being a manufacturer increases the amount of know how and intellectual property that you capture.

44:07 It also means that you can if if you will take those that continuous improvement and gear your business. So that's maybe a slightly longer answer. A shorter answer will be would be no. We're not doing that. Okay. Graham, Andy, thank you very much indeed. And, Paul, back to you. That's great. Thank you, Simon. And, of course, the company will review all questions submitted today, we'll publish responses on the Investor Meet company platform where appropriate to do so. Before redirecting investors to provide you with their feedback, which I is particularly important to you, Doctor. Cooley perhaps I could just ask you for a few closing comments, please. Sure. Okay. So look, first of all, thanks for your time and for joining this call. I think the green hydrogen space is has been exciting for some time.

44:56 It's intensifying, particularly with the energy issues that are appearing now and the drive towards net zero. I think we're a company with a very exciting product at the right time. It it it feels a bit like we're in the right place at the right time in history. And I think we'll be providing you with some very interesting updates hopefully next year. So thanks for your time. Fantastic. Doctor Cooley, Andy, thank you again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close the session? It should be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order the team can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of ITM POWER PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation.

45:48 Thank you all, and good afternoon. Thank you. Thank you.