Itaconix (LSE:ITX) — Interim Results

0:01 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the ITACONIX PLC Interim Results Investor Presentation. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, we would like to submit the following poll and if you would give that your kind attention, I'm sure that would be highly appreciated by the company.

0:32 And I'd like to hand over to CEO, John Shaw. Good afternoon, Good afternoon and welcome everybody to exciting webinar to have, to go through our first half results, which is we're very pleased to present to you.

0:52 Know, Laura Denner, our CFO, and myself, we're gonna go through a little bit on the ITACONIX technology platform, get into the h one twenty twenty two highlights, outlook for second half of twenty twenty two and for 2023.

1:11 What we have in terms of our technology platform is a $23,000,000,000 market potential. Very important, this is what we think about in terms of growing a very large company way beyond where we are today with the potential that we see for both idaconic acid as a versatile and safe building block using plant based feedstocks and its ability to use idaconic acid to go after the current uses of acrylic acid and styrene. That goes across both consumer care, composites, paints and coatings, food and agriculture, water solutions, hygiene, and more. And the unique functionality that iodiconic acid can bring building as block is what really creates the opportunity for us and that it's plant based.

1:59 We have a proprietary and patented technologies for using idaconic acid as a platform for a growing range of new products, using using as a specialty ingredient for sequestering carbon. And with that, think of the $33,000,000,000 as kind of our sandbox and hunting ground to find new unmet needs that we can fit with our technology platform for which to date, it's a $2,300,000,000 in terms of addressable markets that we found to date, and we'll continue to find more opportunities.

2:38 What we do with our technology platform is look at what the unmet needs are to make sure we line up the capabilities that we have with an unmet need to create a big revenue opportunity. The unmet needs right now are really being driven by new consumer and retailer behavior around global imperatives for low carbon economy, and that the changes that those are creating in terms of the formulations that brands are are doing and bringing to market where they need to have more sustainable solutions because that's what consumers and retailers are demanding. We fit into that by decarbonizing, we call it decarbonizing everyday products. The carbon within our products is plant based, that means it started as carbon dioxide, made it synthesized into a plant that was then turned into the sugar to use it for the fermentation, that then becomes the carbon in us. And all along the way, think of us as sequestering carbon dioxide within our polymers.

3:39 But we're doing it really to enable disruptive products based on really the performance and cost and sustainability we do. So we really focus on the performance and value that the idaconic acid chemistries could bring, that we can bring forward in it. And we are doing that, we have an established base within, of uses within brands of over 130 cleaning hygiene products, and we're advancing those into more and more products. When you think of probably the most important things that we did in the first half with our ongoing development efforts is to expand our addressable market from $750,000,000 to $2,300,000,000 with new potential in plant based superabsorbents and intermediates.

4:29 We have excellent global scaling in place in terms of our production capacity. We're sitting a few 100 feet from our plant where we have lots of excellent capital efficient production and production capacity, and we have worldwide scaling capabilities, particularly with our blue chip customers, Croda and Neurion. So we're in excellent position to be a key player in advanced sustained materials in the low carbon economy. So how do we, you know, when we go into the specific applications, what are we doing? Well, we're bringing performance and value into three major areas right now, in cleaning, hygiene, and beauty under our ITACONIX cleaning brand, our VelaFresh hygiene brand, and our VelaSoft beauty brand, where about a $500,000,000 addressable market in cleaning, 1,000,000,000 in terms of Vela Fresh, and about $200,000,000 for Vela Soft.

5:28 Remember, VELIsoft, though, is much higher profit, it's still a very attractive area for us. The products that we have in those, the key products that we have in each area, including our original product is the ITACONIX DSP two ks, which ITACONIX TSI three twenty two. They're used for managing water hardness in the cleaning process, and the DSP has been used in a growing number over the last ten years. The new workhorse for us though is the ITACONIX TSI three twenty two and the excellent properties it has. We are bringing out a new product in cleaning, the ITACONIX ONC 75 is coming out in the coming months.

6:08 It actually combines the cleaning power and the dual function cleaning power and bringing odor control into cleaning applications. In VelaFresh hygiene, we have a trademark for Xinidore, which we license to Croda, and we produce that product for Croda. We just renewed that agreement and added a new product, Xinidore O7D, so we've renewed that product to continue working on a co exclusive base of Vucrotta to pursue opportunities in hygiene. We also have our own efforts under Velopress 20 in personal care and VelaFresh 2400 in broader hygiene, industrial, and some home care areas.

6:56 And then important development we had was bringing our VelaFresh SAP 80 forward as a active commercial development project in January, that's under development. We do not have any specific timeline yet in terms of getting it onto the market or commercial sales, but it's a very important part of what we're doing going forward. And then in beauty, we already have a product that we produce

7:23 and sell to Nurion within its hair fixative polymer line called Amaze SP. An important development based on our research we've done to date is our new Velisoft VR 300, which is taking the new hair care technology that we patented early in the year and bringing it out as an ingredient for preventing and repairing damaged hair. And we continue to invest the Velisoft line of more hair care technologies. So there's also bio Asterix, which I do not know is the intermediates we have. We did put a, have a new patent in place for composites there, and we still had our first active sales in some other intermediates in that space. But this is what we do, this is how we're turning that technology platform into products that meet important unmet consumer and retailer needs.

8:23 We continue to gain success in building up more brands across cleaning, hygiene, and beauty. Major area for us is in the detergent area, where if you go to the grocery store and you may think you're buying a premium brand automatic dish detergent pod, or you're buying the store brand for a discount, or you're buying the green one. Interesting, regardless of what you do, we're still decarbonizing because we're the key ingredient in all three of those.

8:54 So regardless of the choice that consumers are making, we are decarbonizing. We are not asking the consumers to pay any premium to be decarbonizing because that's the performance and value that our ingredients can bring to these products. And we're bringing it to it in all three areas. With that, we're growing the number of brands. This is a number from, we have not updated this number in the last few months, but we think it's well over 130 and continuing to penetrate. So this creates a base of products that we're formulated into. We're the sole supplier and there's no other replacement for our ingredients in these formulas. This is where you get very sticky revenues once you get formulated. Long process to get there, but once you're there, you have a tremendous base.

9:43 The growth in revenues doesn't come from just the initially getting into the formulation, it comes from those brands making it out into further and further consumer sales through getting into more and more retail outlets. That's often a three to four to five year process from initial launch of a product as it gets into more and more retailers. So the biggest source of growth for us is growth of our existing formulas that we were in from a year and a half ago, that those continue to expand and get out into more and more retailers. So in North America, you cannot go into a major retailer and not find, we're in a product, multiple products usually in every major retailer across North America.

10:30 And we're growing in Europe also because you'll see some of the names like Rossmann, Tesco, Carrefour, we're getting increasing penetration. As you go into those stores, you'll find us in more and more ingredients. So we get that initial base and then you get that expanding base as those products succeed in the marketplace.

10:52 And what you see in terms of our results in the first half is the full effect of that revenue engine coming to light. Laura and I have known about this, our company have known about it as we've watched it progress through our customer project pipelines, we've talked about it, but actually getting to be able to present it to you and to the outside world, it's very exciting for us to see what's been developing for so many years. And we really did do a tremendous job in that in the first half with record first half revenues of $3,100,000 that's 120, more than 100%, 120% higher than a year ago, it's higher than the second half of twenty twenty one, and it's almost 40% higher than our record half year that we had in the second half of twenty twenty. And we actually even came close to our full year results for 2020.

11:49 So this is the effect of that revenue engine advancing, more brands, those brands getting more success out in the marketplace, and then adding new brands as we go along. With the size that we have now, we are able to provide more detail in terms of how our revenues break down by market and by segment. So I'll first talk about, I'll start below on the segment side of it. So we sell our products as a performance ingredients where much of the time, particularly in detergent, we've done the full formulation. Right here in our lab, we'll do a full formulation, send it to our customer, the customer will go put it into production.

12:34 Increasingly, customers have come back to us and said, Could you help us source the ingredients that you're putting into the formulas beyond yours, can you help us source those to make sure we have a reliable supply, reliable pricing on it, and that it's working properly in the formula on it? So think of it as kind of a value added reseller service where we generate some profit out of it, and actually those profits help sustain our ongoing development efforts on new formulation development. And we did have a major growth in that in the first half of this year. Within the revenue side of it, all of the growth really came out of cleaning revenues for nonphosphate detergents.

13:20 Our beauty and hygiene were actually relatively flat. We were a little, it wasn't necessarily unexpected, but we do expect an increase in that because of increased formulation activity around these ingredients. And as I said earlier, we got our first sales in BioAsterix for selling an intermediate that's used in leather chemicals and leather formulations and the tanning process of leathers. We talked about a sustainable fashion, it's now out into the marketplace, specifically in the tanning process for leather, which is polyacrylates are used widely there and were being used as a sustainable replacement in those areas to increase the sustainability of leather.

14:11 So tremendous growth across it, really driven on the cleaning side of it in terms of the engine of the, particularly from the large customers doing it and gaining increasing market share for our ITACONIX TSI three twenty two in a new generation of products. So as we look at our gross profit margin, we did see an increase in our overall gross profit of 45%. This was largely due to the product mix that we experienced in the first half of this year. As we said, we had some huge, cleaning volumes. So those detergent revenues, that we received in were at a slightly lower gross profit margin, but overall, they helped to build and they help to fill up our plant capacity that we have. So these two large detergent customers that we had, we had committed pricing to them in late twenty twenty one that we honored in early twenty twenty two.

15:09 We were able to get out of those price commitments, and we did implement some pricing increases in January, April, and most recently in September. Another factor was the high raw material costs that we had going into the year. COVID had had some impact on the raw material logistics. Shipping containers were at a higher premium. These costs have started to stabilize now going into autumn, so we are seeing more stable raw material costs. As said, we were able to pass on price increases to our customers, so that has helped overall. We should see an uptick in our gross profit going forward into the next half of this year and into 2023. When we look more specifically at what the gross profit was by by gross profit percentage, that formulated solutions, which Joan was talking, that value added service that we provide to some of our customers, these formulation solutions are about 20% of our overall revenue. So they're about $600,000.

16:11 When we look at the next slice, the under 20% gross profit margin, those were supporting large detergent customers and some other some other volumes of bio Asterisk. Those were under 20%. So we expect that we can move we will be able to move those higher up the gross profit curve in the near term. The majority of our revenues came in that 20% to 35% gross profit margin. That represented about 33% or 38% of our overall of our overall revenues coming in this period. And lastly, that over 35% represents about 22% of our overall revenues coming in for the first half of the year. We saw the capacity for our plant go from, in h one twenty twenty one, from about £450,000 to h one twenty twenty two to about £815,000.

17:03 So we grew the capacity without any real additional, increases in our operating expenses. So we have plenty of capacity to help improve these gross profit margins as we move forward into the next half of the year. So although the gross profit margins are down, these were all understood

17:27 and really agreed upon in terms of what our strategy was going to be for the first half in terms of, one, supporting some major customers for their product launches. Those were product launches that were started and committed to back last October, November, and we honored those prices as prices started inflating and they inflated a lot in December, January and February. And there was the mix of business. We are succeeding with our largest customers who have the most aggressive pricing on it. That's understood on it. We also, having known exactly what we did here, we are also in position to correct these, to make corrections on these to get our margins back up to our target of 35%.

18:17 We've also implemented some of those, as Laura said, with price increases. Our latest one was in September 1, but already in August, our gross profit margins were 32%. So, and I'll get into it a little bit more detail on the outlook for rest of 'twenty two and 2023 on our focus of it, but this was not surprises to us. These were decisions that we made to be able to get volumes and important pieces of business in a highly inflationary period.

18:53 So when we look at our operating expenses, once we did the turnaround in 2018, we really maintained a low cash operating expenses of roughly between 1,200,000 to 1,500,000. So over the last four halves, they've maintained relatively stable, But they've also allowed us to make judicious decisions on development spending, such as the BR 300 for the hair styling polymers that we're working on, the SAP, some of those other application areas where we see a big market to address. So we have done some spending on there. We have had some production improvements, but we've also made grown our revenues from last year at 1,300,000 to 3,100,000, and we've done that kind of on the same operating expense base. So we have a solid operating structure built in. Management is maintaining and growing the company revenue stream successfully with our current operating expenses as they are.

19:51 But we will continue to make judicious decisions on spending to, you know, create the best value for our shareholders in the in the future. When it comes down to EBITDA, we had a slight decrease in our EBITDA loss for the year. So we see an improvement in our EBITDA as we go forward. We expect for the full year 2022 that there will be an improvement from our 2020 EBITDA loss. So it's all going in the right direction, and we're successfully getting our EBITDA losses down year over year. So when you look at the operating expenses over the last number of halves and what we've been able to do with our existing operating expenses, we've grown our sales dramatically, we've brought out new patented technologies in two areas.

20:39 We brought forward two fundamental new products and we're bringing out more in hair care, and we've advanced our super absorbent into commercial phase. We're doing all of that with increased revenues and achieving all of that with operating expenses well under control on it. In terms of the adjusted EBITDA loss, it is a little higher than what we wanted. That's primarily due, not because, you see, it's not because operating expenses, those were all well managed, it's just that difference in gross profit margin of 25% instead of you know, in the mid thirties or so, that's really where the difference has been in the adjusted EBITDA losses on it.

21:25 And as we talked about in the previous previous slide, that's something we're already focused on addressing. So when we move over to the balance sheet side of the company, management team does a great job of maintaining operating expenses in a reasonable range. We also work very hard to maintain our working capital. So over the past two two and a half years, we've maintained a good working capital through managing our inventories, receivables, and managing our supply chain. We're very focused on, making sure that all of these stay in line as we continue to grow the revenue revenue side of the business. We did have a small fundraise in April, but that was really key to helping build our inventories that we needed for our European volumes in detergent.

22:14 So we see a big traction in Europe, and we needed to make sure we could meet the delivery times for those customers. So we we did resupply our European warehouse that we have in in Belgium. As you can see from the chart on the bottom, our capital spending has been relatively low.

22:31 We haven't need to put any additional CapEx to increase our plant utilization. We have the capacity here to do the production that we need. So in h one twenty twenty one, we did about 450,000 pounds of material in the plant. At h one twenty twenty two, we did about 815,000 pounds of material. So that that utilization was already built into our our capital assets. So we were able to scale up relatively easily with some small capital expenditures. We still have much more capacity to fill in the plant to continue building our revenue streams. So we've, again, on the operating expense side, been able to manage our operating expenses while expanding our revenue potential, adding new products, new revenue opportunities of it, and on the working in on the capital requirement side, also managing that tightly to so that we do not have huge capital requirements nor huge operating expense requirements at this point to to you know, for what we have in our in our pipeline.

23:37 That being said, we have maintained investment in it because of the return, basically the return we're getting in terms of more revenue opportunities. We think those are excellent investments of our resources and well within the managing it within the realm of our finances of it. And we're doing it against a growing revenue base, which again, we've seen coming and know is coming on it. So then what we really can get to is be able to sustain that operating base solely through the revenue side of it. So this is just a great position to be in of high revenue potential, 40% plus compound annual growth over many years, and doing it with very little capital requirements and operating expense requirements.

24:35 So to just give you the overall picture of how our h one highlights showed up, we had a a great increase in our revenues. We had a 124% increase half over half. I know we touched on some of the other metrics. Our gross profit did increase by 45%. We're up at the $760,000. EBITDA was really affected by the gross profit, but we did have a decrease in our EBITDA of about 13%. And all that work that we did on maintain managing our working capital really shows up in our cash from operations. We really kept that tight control over that as a management team. And then lastly, our net cash position at the end of the half was $900,000 putting us in a great cash position to move into the second half of this year.

25:24 The outlook for the second half is one as we now expect more stability in raw material costs and the supply chain delays on it. What consumers are seeing right now in consumer price inflation, we really saw starting last October, November, December, January, February. That's when the high inflation, not just like 50 percent, we're seeing 100%, 200% increases in raw material prices that we've been able to pass on it. But we see those are stabilizing now. Supply chain delays are improving on it. The one that we do have is because we sell in Europe, delivered in euros, the strengthening of the dollar over the last six months is creating some concern on our EU sales and the profitability of our EU sales just as we're getting into late stages of production trials and major traction there. That is one we're keeping an eye on.

26:25 We do produce here in US dollars are shipping there. We are taking measures to reduce our costs, make sure we could be as efficient as possible, but we want those EU sales. We've been working on those for many years. We have great opportunities for high revenue growth there. We want and need those sales. In terms of focusing on gross profit margin, we have a number of efforts underway versus the further price increases that are need if they're needed. Right now, we think we're in a good position given where our gross profit margins are with and getting all really getting everybody up and into the targets that we have for them. That being said, we are really working in two areas to expand the higher margin business, which is expanding our base of smaller, more profitable customers, we have efforts underway there.

27:17 We expect recovery in the hygiene and beauty revenues, and we have new beauty and hygiene products coming out. So you'll see the future development efforts are really focused into those higher margin areas and recovery from there. We do have new projects, customer projects advancing in Europe. We have one brand that will be on the shelf in October, we believe, once it makes it out there in the automatic dish one, that's an important one. We have a number of other major projects working their way through various stages of production trials and to see how that those advance is important. We did add a, restructured our board, we had Peter Nuhnnheissen join in July, and we are going to continue to work on expanding the board in the second half.

28:10 And then the share consolidation that we got approved at our annual general meeting, we are looking at when the right timing for that is in terms of the implementation and costs for doing that. We are, we will do it. The question is when. It may be this year, it may be by the end of this year, if not, then into the early part of next year. For next year, the big one for us is continued share gains in dishwashing detergents. We're going to get more North American volumes just by the inertia of what we have in our existing customer base. And really important is the new what happens with the new traction and the speed of the traction in The EU in the dishwashing detergent side.

29:01 And then lastly, we are working on a new generation of North American dishwashing formulas to roll out, which we've been working on with some of our major customers over the last six months or so as you have to make adjustments to get the overall formulation costs down with new ingredient costs. Those will be rolling out. We will be rolling out the new hygiene and beauty products, and we will be pursuing new market channels to gain broader access in hygiene and beauty. We're going to be continuing the development of our super absorbent for commercial progress. We do not expect that that to be generating any significant revenues or any revenues necessarily in 2023.

29:50 We have been working in the field on it. It is not, our Ideconate superabsorbents are not a drop in replacement for the acrylate ones. So similar to what we had to do in automatic dish when we had to adjust the formulas to extract the value of our product when it goes in there, we see now that there's going to be a little bit more adjustment in the structure of the hygiene products that we'll be going into. Still remains a very attractive area for us that we have high hopes for. In the composites area, we are going to be seeking some partners. Again, that's in the bio Asterisk area where we would be selling an intermediate downstream to someone in the composites business, and we'll be seeking partners for that. And then on the share consolidation, if we don't get it done this year, then we'll be doing it early next year on it.

30:52 So in terms of what we've achieved, we have, you know, just that customer base of brands and formulations that are getting into the market, getting bigger share within the market, getting better exposure to more retailers, that is just that engine of recurring, high quality recurring revenues where there's no substitute for our product and we're the sole producer of our product in the world. When we get in there, it's just really high quality ones and it's expanding, you can see the results of that. We aren't just selling on the plant based aspects of it, even though we are decarbonizing these products, we're really selling based off performance and cost. So we are not asking for consumers or retailers to pay a premium for this, and that's what, it's really around the performance of what we can do.

31:48 We have that large proprietary technology platform that we're expanding within that $33,000,000,000 to continue sandbox, to continue searching for additional high revenue opportunities because our ambition is to be a much, much larger company. We're not interested in being tens of millions, we want to be much higher than that. That's the potential that we have as a company, that's the potential our chemistry has, that's the potential for acid chemistries of it, and we're the leader in that area. All of it's being done with low capital requirements because of the existing production capacity that we have in place, even that production capacity is highly efficient in our ability to manage our operating expenses in terms of minimizing cash requirements of it.

32:35 So this is just an excellent time, an excellent position for the company. It's been years in the making of it, but it's great to be able to report out the progress that we've made on it. And we're looking forward to continuing to report that, particularly towards heading to further breakeven EBITDA profitability in the coming eighteen to twenty four months, if not sooner. That's great. John, Laura, thank you very much indeed for updating investors this afternoon. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Just while Laura and John take a few moments to review those questions submitted already, I would like to remind you that recording of this presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A, can be accessed via your Investor Meet company dashboard.

33:28 John, Laura, you'll see you've received a number of questions from investors throughout today's presentation. Firstly, thank you to everybody for their engagement this afternoon. Perhaps if I may, Laura, John, hand back to you, and if I could ask you just to read out those questions and where appropriate to give a response, that'd be fantastic. The first question is requiring a delivery of itaconic acid volumes. I'm not sure, we buy through multiple channels. So accurately, I know there are import records that you look as if you can track what our usage is, but we buy from multiple sources. So you that's it's really hard to know exactly what our idiotic acid usage has been on it because we because of how we source it.

34:19 And that's part of our that's really part of our security of our supply to make sure we use multiple channels on it. David W, when do you expect to list in The US? No plans to do that. David Q, So the question is, what was, you know, that some investors, a year ago we peaked up at 15 to 16 P, and it's now at five to six P. I think it stay in there. See what the It's targets that we have also been a very difficult stock market overall. I think within the stock market right now, our performance in terms of having higher returns relative to the market puts us in a good position.

35:18 We need to raise more funds to become profitable. We don't have, don't use a lot of cash. I guess today, as we just presented, we don't use a lot of cash. If we see, like we did in the spring, if we see an opportunity where we need some cash to be able to accelerate an effort and we think that that's the overall benefit to the shareholders and we are shareholders on it, we look at that and if there's an opportunity to accelerate our growth to be a bigger company faster, we may look at that. With regard to nappies, additives, biodegradable plastics, nothing to report on biodegradable plastics.

36:04 As we reported in, I think I mentioned in our CEO statement, what's happened to biodegradable plastics is that people, instead of adding new additives, a lot of it is they're compounding with existing biodegradable plastics, there's polylactic acid, PHAs, and a lot of the activity there is going into blending of existing plastics and getting new additives into those blending has been a little bit more changed. So we do not have any progress. We still have projects in that area, but not expect anything. The diapers and nappies, I think I reported on. I think the, there's a question about from Duncan about our EBITDA guidance, breakeven revenues, what amount of that is in the bag, so to speak.

36:58 I can generally say that most of our growth is coming from our existing customers succeeding in the market. So what you saw in the first half was not all of a sudden some new customer coming in. We have, it's like brick by brick we're adding it, most of the revenue engine is from growing success of our existing customers on it. There's a question back at you, was a placing taken by institutional, not sure on that. Really can't speak to the placement of the institutional shareholder in June 2021. There's a question about share consolidation. Do you have an approximate number of shares you want to reduce by? I think that, I think it's approved as a fixed ratio of 10 to one. Yeah, we're authorized to look for a 10 to Yeah, we do not have discretion of making it anything different than 10 to one.

37:55 And then I think, you know, in terms of, we continue in terms of question about breakeven, we continue to believe that we are approaching that and that some of it is discretion that we have in terms of maintaining our investment spending for much higher revenues. Again, if we're spending an extra $300.400000 dollars and we can add in revenue opportunities of $50,000,000 that's a good investment that I think every shareholder would want us to be making. We're just not consuming a lot of cash on it. Mhmm. That's great. John, Laura, I think every question that's coming, you fired them back straight away. So thank you very much indeed for doing so, and thank you once again to those investors for their questions this afternoon. If any further questions do come through the portal, make those available to you after today's meeting.

38:44 John, Laura, I know investor feedback is important to you, and we'll shortly redirect those on the call to give you their thoughts and expectations. But finally, if I may, ask you for a few closing comments, and then I'll get you some feedback. Well, we really appreciate the support of all of our shareholders. Since 2018, when Laura and I took on the responsibility as CEO and CTO, CFO. We've really had particularly appreciate the support of the retail investors throughout the last four years. It's been the support that you offer us is really important to us. We've known that we have the potential for this, your faith in getting us there, and we've been every day thinking about how can we make sure we return that to shareholders in it. And I think even at those disappointed as I may be at five to 6P and not understand it, And looking at last year around 12P thinking like, wow, when we look at relative to our peers, how come we aren't there? At the same time, for those who've been with us on the journey, I hope that the people who've been in there and stuck in with us have made a good return.

40:05 I think we're going to continue to build this company into what we've envisioned all along as a very large, highly profitable specialty ingredients company. And appreciate you being on the journey with us today. I hope you continue on that journey with us. That's great. John, Laura, thank you once again for your time this afternoon and for updating investors. Can I please ask investors not to close this session as we're now automatically redirect you for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order the company can better understand your views and expectations? This will only take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure will be greatly valued by both John and Laura. On behalf of the management team of ITACONIX PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending this afternoon's presentation. That now concludes today's session. Good afternoon to you all. Thanks, guys. Thanks, everybody.