Genincode (LSE:GENI) — Interim results presentation

0:01 Good morning, and welcome to the GENINCODE PLC Interim Results Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and they can be submitted at any time using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and publish responses, which is appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And I would now like to hand you over to CEO, Matthew Walls. Good morning to you. Good morning, Alex, and and good morning, everyone, who who's on the call. So as Alex said, Matthew Walls here, CEO of GENINCODE. I'm here at the Cavendish offices, in the city of London with Paul Forger, the CFO.

0:52 As Alex said, what we're gonna do is move fairly swiftly through the slides so that we give ourselves plenty of time at the end for some q and a. So if you want to submit any questions, please go ahead and do so. So I'll, start the presentation. We with a bit of delay. We're gonna talk through the interim results, a review of where we are in as a company in The US, in The UK, EU. We'll have an update on ROKA, and then we'll finish on a financial summary and outlook. I won't spend too long on this, but I hope most people are aware of what we do, who we are. We're involved in the genetics of heart disease.

1:44 Importantly, this is a missing piece in terms of the standard of care, and it's coming very quickly to be recognized as being perhaps the most important piece for recognizing those individuals in the population most at risk of heart disease in the future. We're scaling our products in The US, Europe, and The UK. We've got established systems. So from a development perspective, we're towards the end of that process. We're now into selling and scaling. We have strong globally leading evidence base, so our publications are leading in this area. Strong IP protection, and we're not just a single product focus. We've got multiple test products, and some of those you'll see now coming online in The UK and US. And as I said to start, the most important piece here is genetics in the case of cardiovascular disease is a missing piece. It needs to be included in an alongside clinical risk assessment.

2:41 And by comparison, for those who are aware of oncology and cancer, cancer is ahead in this space. It's been involved in genetics of oncology and cancer for the last fifteen, twenty years. A little bit more difficult in cardiovascular because we deal with what we call polygenics, multiple genes. So that's the area we specialize in as a company. Okay. I'm jumping now to slide five. This is a good summary of of where we've been in the first half of this year. I started with the ROCA update simply because it's it's just been announced by the NHS on the the day we posted the interim results. The NHS also gave an update on ROCA. Very pleased. There was good coverage from channel four, the independent, a number of newspapers yesterday as well.

3:31 For those who are not familiar with this, this is the risk of ovarian cancer algorithm. It it surveys, monitors women at risk for uncertain staging for ovarian cancer, and so important because in the case of ovarian cancer, it's a silent killer, let's say, in disease as it comes. So to get a surveillance for those women who are putting off preventive surgery is an important step. It's the only test globally in this space, so it's also leading. We're very pleased we've got both UCLH and also with the trust now coming online in England, NHS England. So pleased about that. There's also quite a lot of demand coming from overseas too. But importantly, for where we are, we want to focus on getting the NHS fully up and running in this space and leading globally in terms of ovarian cancer surveillance.

4:22 Then moving on to the core of the companies. This is all around cardiovascular risk assessment and prevention. In The US, we've seen good growth at the end of last year, 20 clinics onboarded. We now have 40. I'm hoping that by the end of this year, we'll be at least 60 clinics. And for me and for us as a team, it's really important we keep pushing those clinic numbers upwards, onboarding more physicians, and gradually building up that volume in terms of testing that's happening in The US. It's a good process for us. There's a lot of a lot more happening in terms of profile as well, so pleased with the growth that we're seeing in The US. FDA, for those who are close to following the company, you'll know that we've had an ongoing supervisory review with the FDA. That's all finished. We've agreed the outstanding deficiencies and also the additional information required to close out and get approval of the de novo.

5:15 Disappointed that it's taken us longer than we wanted, but at the same time, this is a big area that we're talking about predicting any disease, predicting anything in life is difficult. Predicting heart disease based on your genetics is a tough area. The the FDA are asking reasonable questions, although we thought we'd answered all of those earlier this year. The areas that they've come back on are more information on what we call powering for some of the subgroup analysis for black Africans and also medical chart reviews. So that's a sense check on the data that's being provided. And bear in mind, that data is provided by Kaiser Kaiser Permanente, our partner in The US. So we don't get involved in that. They use all our testing, but they provide all the data independently of us to the FDA.

6:04 I'm pleased to say we've got ongoing and advanced discussions with commercial partners for Cardio and Co, and this is this is for the distribution nationally in The US. Those discussions are extending more than just The US. There's an interest in in moving it more broadly to both Europe and rest of the world too, that that's a good thing. And, also, we'll likely involve manufacturing as well. So it is a full collaboration, and it will be perhaps the first time that the company is then, what I would say, moving to a level of exploiting the technology and products that we have on a national and international basis. So pleased with progress there, and we expect to give a further update in the coming, I'll say, month months around what's happening in that area. It's an exciting, process for us moving forward.

6:54 We received the, inclusion of cardio ENCODE score. This is about $500 per test from the clinic in the CMS clinical lab fee schedule in The US. That's from Medicare and Medicaid, so it allows us to move our products now into The US market, cardio encode, for sale through Medicare and Medicaid. So that's an important part of that national distribution process. NHS, good growth. I mean, whilst it's grown in the year, we're not happy that it hasn't we think it should be growing much faster, much quicker. We're dealing with globally leading preventive positioning. We've given and offered the, NHS the pricing at a significantly reduced price for a test that's globally leading, and we're just not happy that it's growing fast enough.

7:39 So whilst it's grown, it's not growing fast enough and we've got, you know, quite a lot of activity going on at the moment to try and bring more attention to this. We've managed to not only grow what we're doing in the North Of England, but also meet a ten year plan for prevention of heart disease in that region. So this is globally leading. We're delivering the NHS ten year plan. We're not happy that it's not happening quick enough. It needs to move faster, we'll be pushing hard on the NHS for further growth in that area. Good growth will be steady in Spain, Italy, and Germany. Steady, solid growth on that side, so we're pleased about that. And a lot happening in terms of publications at the moment. In the coming weeks, we've got another big publication coming and perhaps the most important today, which is around the importance of polygenic risk score for the modulation of cholesterol. So for those who are familiar with cholesterol measurement, we tend to look at it as an absolute measure, a simple cholesterol level within the blood which is given, but it's more than that because what we're now seeing is that individuals who even at a low level of cholesterol, if they have a high polygenic risk score, it modulates their risk. It effectively multiplies that risk up. So this paper will be presented in perhaps the biggest journal in The US, the American College of Cardiology Journal about the equivalent of the Lancet, and it will push forward as to not only polygenic risk for early prediction of heart disease, but also showing the importance in relation

9:11 to modulation of cholesterol. Financial highlights, we wanted them to be stronger than this. 15% growth in revenues, but we think that by the end of the year, will it be up at around 25%. But again, we want to see more than that. We're pushing for much higher growth because we have now not only the products, the model, the business, the infrastructure to deliver it, and we can do better in our view. We successfully completed the round early this year. Losses, very tight. We're keeping the cost base incredibly tight in a view with a view to chasing down and moving to breakeven as quickly as we can. Cash reserves at the half year, just over just under 2,500,000. Okay. On the product side, we've got Thrombo Encode now coming through as well for The UK and The US. So in the next few months, that'll be validated and opens being sold as a third product in both The UK and The US.

10:08 The systems, as I've just mentioned, we have them now in place in Europe, UK, and The US. They're harmonized. That's really important because as we grow out and change the technology, improve things as we move forward, it's harmonized on an international basis. And just so everyone's aware, that's the ordering system, the reporting system, all our algorithms, AI, all of the data warehousing is held within setup. It's a very valuable system. We continue to improve it, and all of the investment in this was made over the last ten, fifteen years. Initially and primarily at the beginning, the original setup was done by Ferro Pharmaceuticals where we originally acquired GENDIAG and FerroEncode to form GENINCODE in 2018. The market in The US, significant and growing.

10:55 Perhaps some would say growing out of control. It's a major issue. The numbers, it's moved now significantly into the biggest it was always at the high end, ischemic heart disease, but now the numbers are getting ever bigger. So it's the the biggest reason for mortality and death in The US, and therefore, it's not only in high mortality terms, but the cost burden to The US state is significant. The focus in terms of the way we're rolling out, we're we're up on the key opinion leaders in the main educational academic institutions, hospital institutions in The US. We have our regulatory in place. Obviously, we're waiting for FDA de novo. We'll touch on that in a moment. We have our reimbursement set up for lipid and code, is driving most of the revenues to date that we're reporting.

11:42 We have our coding in place, and obviously now the main focus is on our commercial development. And on this slide, turning yellow, we now these are the 40 active ordering sites. So we had 20 at the end of last year. We have 40 now. And as I said, I expect it to grow significantly over the coming months too. So by the end of the year, at least 60 perhaps more. But what that means on the right hand side there, not only the client number's increasing, but the the numbers of tests are now starting to lift quickly. So the full year last year, had about a 130,140 tests. We're now well above that just for the half year and continuing to grow. So part of the growth model is around us moving more and more units ordering clients online, of which there are many, many individuals we can work with. So that's the intention to keep pushing up those client numbers.

12:36 In addition to that, we've obviously then got the national distribution piece, which is why we've gone for the FDA medical device piece. As I mentioned, we've made good progress with them in discussions. We're obviously disappointed that we haven't got it yet, but we've now focused down on just a handful of points that we're we're we're looking now to deliver these over the coming months. So by quarter one of twenty twenty six, we'll be submitting this additional information. The three areas, and it's mainly the clinical validation area that we're we're focused on, population analysis. So that's the black African population further numbering and powering on that side. A medical chart review is this sense check for the data that we're providing or Kaiser are providing to the FDA. The analytical validation cybersecurity more internal, we can do those and provide that information to them.

13:26 So, again, we can see and we're very focused on making sure we've got everything in place. We answer in full all of the, additional, information requirements for the FDA. We want to get this done and in place. And as a result of that and in line with that, that's where the commercial distribution discussions are ongoing with the the partners in The US. But good progress on that. It's likely, as I mentioned earlier, that we'll be signing this in advance of the FDA approved. Okay. This is just a quick extract of one of the big papers coming in the next few weeks. But just to to, show the polygenic risk assessment for heart disease and for cardiovascular disease, we're now able to see individuals at risk earlier in life.

14:20 Those individuals at high risk that are undetected by clinical, assessment. We can up classify them for treatment. That means that when we see that they're at high risk, they go on to a much more aggressive form of treatment. It's actionable and it's totally independent to clinical risk assessment. So this is vitally important for the future of how we treat and prevent heart disease and we're coming quickly. We're the only group globally is putting out anything in this space at a population level, mainly because it's so difficult to do. And our systems, the way this is seventeen years of development that brings us to this position, but I'm pleased to say the papers we've got several papers coming, which the one in the next few weeks is a powerful one. We'll give you further information on that. So look out for it when it's released.

15:11 We, as a result of that, we're now starting to see the guidelines beginning to to change. So all of the main, bodies in Europe and The US are now starting to issue statements on polygenic risk assessment, and it's for those individuals who are not recognized at high risk that you then, as a result of their genetic risk assessment, we can then find that they are and therefore treat them more appropriately. And this is really important because it it's if you think about the way that through life, we start to see the onset of clinical symptoms, in this instance, we can see that much earlier by virtue of your genetics. And by recognizing those individuals at risk earlier in life, we can truly start to prevent the onset of heart disease. So really important, particularly because it comes alongside and is additive in terms of risk assessment to clinical assessment.

16:06 But now pleased to say that the the other bodies, certainly for our key markets are now all starting to fold into line with where we are. And, also, we share all our papers with them, so they're very familiar with what we're doing. We talked before a little bit, but I put this one in. This is the way that it's brought in alongside clinical risk assessment. So, all of, as an individual, when you move to above 30 years of age, you go into clinical risk assessment for heart disease. So, typically, you're assessed as either being low, borderline, intermediate, or high risk clinically. And then when I say that low, borderline, intermediate, or high, that's, either low is below five percent of an event, for example, a heart attack, or in the case of high, above twenty percent, so one in five chance of a heart attack in the next ten years. These are the clinical risk assessment guidelines that that are used pretty much across Europe and The US.

17:03 But what we now do is we bring alongside that then the genetics, and you're either categorized into low genetic risk, intermediate, or high. And in the case of those individuals who were typically at low or borderline intermediate where you have a high genetic risk, the physician will be certainly unaware until they see the genetic risk of the individual. They'll be thinking seriously about taking action, so acting, and initiating or intensifying statins if the patient isn't on lipid lowering medication or in the case of blood pressure lowering, looking at antihypertensives. So this is the way the treatment from on the basis of recognizing an individual at high genetic risk. Very important and it's coming very quickly. Lipid and code, this is the the main product that we drive revenues for not only in The US but also UK and Europe.

17:56 It's been our main focus over the last eighteen months to start bringing this in now and growing the revenue, so I'm pleased to say that's happening. In the case of The US, the revenues on a reimbursement at an insurance level are around about $1,200, but it it's a little bit more than just receiving $1,200 when we sell it. We're selling and we we're receiving that payment from insurance companies. And for those who are familiar with health insurance in The US, it's a very complex and difficult area to work in. So initially when we bill and we claim monies from them, they won't pay. They don't they don't work like that. They they want to first of all analyze who you are, who are GENINCODE. We've never heard of them. There's a lot of pushback, what we call denial. We have to appeal it. We have to chase it down. We have to explain why the patient had all of the medical necessity and criteria for a test, and then eventually, we'll get paid.

18:48 I'm pleased to say we're starting to get paid, but not at the level we want. So there's a lot of appeals and denials going on, and as a result of that, we're not recording the full revenue amounts in our accounts. We're re recording reduced levels until we get in the future much more acceptance from the insurance companies for payment. So just so you know, in the accounts that we report, we are what we call through revenue recognition reporting reduced figures until we get more confident in that. Figures are still growing, but they're necessarily being provided for effectively reduced to a lower level because of what we call this revenue recognition reduction based on slow insurance on The US side. Family Heart Foundation or what's called, what used to be called familial high cholesterolemia foundation, but it's changed its name. It's a broad group given a national objective to improve risk assessment for heart disease in The US population.

19:45 We're working closely with them. We are the chosen test, and this is a national program. Continues to build. It's still early at this stage, but it's important that we're part of it to grow out what we're doing in The US market. Moving across now to The UK. Again, for those of you who followed us over the last few years, we gradually got more and more penetration into the NHS. So really pleased that we've made great progress. Not only that, this month, they've just issued this statement around where we are. We've done around about 3,000 tests in the North Of England, which has meant that they're pushing now up to meeting the ten year plan, which is great. We've also identified probably around about five hundred, six hundred patients now that are heart suffering with FH. So these are the individuals in the population most at risk from heart disease. They've got an accelerated onset for plaque buildup in and around the heart muscle.

20:39 So important to recognize them, and previously, they wouldn't have been recognized, and we wouldn't have seen them. And the first indication may be then that they have a heart attack at which point it can often be too late. So this is getting ahead of it, identifying them early, and everything that the NHS is trying to do around prevention, we're delivering. The sad thing is they're not doing it quick enough. They're not providing funding, and it's it's totally inappropriate given we provide this to them at half their cost of anything close to what they're trying to do internally. And it's sad because we need to move. We need to move on. Now I know that there are other priorities and waiting lists and ambulance times. All of these other things are the drugs, but we still have to push our case and we will be over the coming weeks and months.

21:26 We're in a strong position here. It's important that we capitalize on it. This was the model where we worked through the North Of England and we're now delivering that. We're also talking with Northwest and London, but they don't have funds. They're struggling to get the funding they need to do to implement what we need to do. And and that's for us part of the reason why we're not growing faster. We need to move quicker. We can do. Our systems are ready. Products are turnaround times. I mean, by comparison, as I've said before, we're at half the price, a much more comprehensive test that covers all aspects of genetics for prevention of heart disease, and we do it in a ten, twelve day turnaround from the sample in to report out, whereas the NHS with their just smaller test process take about six to eight months by comparison. So it's not it's a no brainer by comparison with where we are and what we're doing.

22:21 Okay. On the EU side, again, good solid growth, more fragmented markets. So Spain is the lead market here. Good growth in the first half, mainly driven by what we're doing with the rollouts in Catalonia and Extramadura, Catalonia especially in the first half. Good collaborative growth there too as well. And, also, we're seeing expansion in Italy and also in Germany too. So good, steady, solid growth. We're pleased about that, but obviously disappointed somewhat that we want to see faster growth in The UK and also in The US too. ROCA, as I mentioned to start, a lot of coverage from ROCA in the past few days. Also, just to say that we've moved into the market here. It's a unique product to GENINCODE, unique in its supply at the moment through the the NHS. There is nowhere else that is a a test that's approved for use for surveillance of women at high risk of ovarian cancer.

23:21 Importantly, this is a total addressable market in the bottom right hand corner if you can see that for for what we're doing here just in, NHS England. If you think about this, we're we're focused on those high risk women, but we're also interested in following up more broadly on the results and the test data we get back over the coming years because we think that the ROCA test perhaps may have broader application. So very exciting. First trust in for the NHS. We'll be looking to capitalize and grow that quickly over the coming year. We have our second trust lining up as well. Hopefully, we'll be talking about that in the coming weeks and months too. And then third, fourth, we've got six at the moment, that we're focused on.

24:07 Importantly as well, they've got kick start funding to get this work going. So a little bit unlike cardiovascular on the oncology side, the coffers are a little bit deeper. Okay, Paul. Thanks, Matthew. Good morning, everybody. So the first half revenues, up to 1,600,000, 15% year on year growth. As always, that's split geographically into three main regions. So Spain represented an increase from $990,000 to $1,130,000 So roughly a 14% growth, mainly driven by Cardio Incode rollout to Extremadura and the Catalonia region. UK grew from £328 to 3 and £80,000.

24:54 That's mainly driven by VOCA. VOCA increased from £3,000 to £51,000 in the period. So a great increase. Still small, but it's growing rapidly, as Matthew mentioned on the previous slide. And then we've got The U. S. Region, grew from 71,000 to 88,000. Again, a small increase. We would have liked more. But just to explain a little bit more detail about those US revenues, there's three main revenue recognition areas. We have we have institutions, which it it been mainly card main mainly lipid INCODE sales to Beverly Hills Cardiovascular. That's that's a 100% recognition because they order 15 or 20 tests at a time and pay in thirty days or so. Then we have self pay where the patient chooses to pay themselves.

25:44 That tends to be 350 to $400. It may well be they don't have medical insurance, or they really don't want to go through the insurance claim route. So again, that's collected upfront, and we recognize that 100%. The area which is rather subjective is the insurance side. So we're still not filing on all cylinders with insurance companies. They do take a long time to pay. Some of those debts are twelve to eighteen months old, which we are told is absolutely usual in The US. It's a shame that it takes so long. But over time, we do expect that to receive those payments, and we do expect payment to be more forthcoming and much quicker as we move forward.

26:29 So at the moment, we are recognizing about 40% of those insurance sales that we're we're getting through. Just so you know, on an activity base, the number of tests in the first six months has been around 50% more than the whole of 2024. So we are seeing growth. July and August have been strong months as well. So we do expect to see that continuing to accelerate the rest of this year. Gross margin improved slightly to 53%. Again, that's mainly geographic margin mix, I've always said, but the Spanish region is around 45%, 46% margin. The UK in the first six months was around 73% and The U. S. Around 68%.

27:14 So that margin mix will improve as we go forward as well. Adjusted EBITDA loss of $2,000,000 about the same as last year. The important point to make here is that we're keeping our overheads to a sensible level. It grew inflationary by around 3% in the year. And as we've said before, we've already really expanded the major CapEx, the development cost, the clinical trials. So we are moving forward with what we believe is fixed cost base that we can manage and will only grow proportionately to the commercial sales growth levels. So that's an important objective for us. And that leads us to a comprehensive loss of $2,500,000 and cash balances at the end of June of 2,400,000 Thanks, Paul. Okay.

28:06 And and just to just on that final point, Paul, was making that when we say, Greg, the cost base is largely fixed. Fixed, and therefore, we're driving that top line growth revenue, tightly, obviously, getting solid, strong margins with a view to pushing with that fixed cost base that reduced loss right down. That's our model. That's where we are to derisk what we're doing moving forward. So this is just to start to close out a little bit. FDA regulatory discussions, we're we're kind of pretty much through those now. We've agreed everything we need to do for the additional information. The submission of the final information, additional information should be made around about beginning or being well of quarter one twenty six. Between now and then, we will have expected to give an update on where we are with our collaboration partners in The US, so look out for that. Further NHS updates to come over the coming months is too.

29:00 Of all the states, we've got state approval on all of them with the exception of New York state. It takes a little bit longer there. We expect that imminently. We've finished all of the work there. We've been waiting for a little bit of time on that, so it's expected shortly. Kaiser, more publications coming from them in and around all the work we're doing. They're also onboarding the testing with their system too. Once we have FDA approval, we'll then push forward in what we call the MolDX process. This then gives us whilst we've got state by state pricing, the Molget process with FDA approval then gives us the ability to charge Medicare, Medicaid by stent. So that's the piece that we follow-up. And in quarter two, we're in a growth mode again, albeit now with a collaborative partner, with a regulatory approved product, and a significantly higher, revenue position. We're currently looking at quarter twenty twenty six forecast, but we anticipate on the basis of where we are significant growth in the company.

29:56 So coming back to finishing off this year, was where we're looking at growth for this year of around about 25% growth. We wanted to be more. We would we would like it to be in 60% growth in revenue. So good growth at 25%, but not as high as we wanted. And therefore, we've guided markets around about 3,300,000 for that full year. Lipid and cardio are the key to to growth across UK, Europe, and UK. We'll push forward on the FDA approval, finalize that commercial partnership, which will give us a a new dimension. It will be pivotal to the growth of the company moving forward and and further continued solid growth across Europe. So we're pleased about that. And as we've said before, driving towards breakeven over the medium term.

30:47 Okay. That's that's it. I'll I'll pause there, and we'll just take stock of any questions that are coming up. Paul, do you wanna have a look and then just read them out, and then we'll go through them? Sure. So we have some questions on the q and a that have been submitted. First question is, can you envisage coming back to shareholders for another fund raise? We're in discussions at the moment with a lot of different people in different ways. So part of it is collaborative, part of it is non dilutive funding. And and whilst those are going on in discussions, then I'm not I'm not ready yet to to make a decision. I can tell you that it it's there's a lot of important pieces that we're considering. So no is the answer.

31:34 We're not looking at that right now, but we will, you know, advise the market as and when the time is appropriate. Thank you. Roger has asked a question. When you say pushing NHS to go faster, are you also lobbying politically and talking to journalists, etcetera, or is that likely to be counterproductive? Well, you're right. The back end of the question that you've just asked is right. We've got to can't throw stones in in glass houses. They're our customer, so we don't want to make them feel uncomfortable. But there comes a point where, you know, we're trying to grow the company and give them something that is really valuable to improve health care for UK, and NHS PLC. Well, we have a globally leading position at a price point that's half of what they're doing. It it is, as I said earlier, a no brainer. So we're trying to encourage them in the right way, but we do have to, you know, up the ante a little bit if things are not going in the right way without destroying that relationship that we have with them. So on the one hand, they've done a great job this week on channel four and the Independent and putting out the news flow for ROCA, but at the same time, we still haven't got prevention up and running for heart disease. So let's go. Let's move.

32:51 Hope that answers your question, Roger. Tom has asked the question, how are you looking to manage the partnership discussions in The US so you get some form of visibility of revenue potential? Exactly that. So it's a it it's likely to be a three to five year program. Why? Because any less than that isn't long enough to properly work with a partner and make make good progress. Any more than that, you don't want to tie yourself in for a future growth position for where we will be as a company in five years. So that that's kind of just a rough outline of thought and there as to where it might might shape up. Importantly, within that that time frame, there are key commercial milestones, guidelines, and activities that will ensure that this is a valuable deal for us moving forward. So that's all part of the negotiation, Still needs to be worked through and finalized.

33:46 But rest assured, in entering into that collaboration, it will be because we know that it has had significant value to us as a company. At the moment, we're growing organically entirely on the back of what we are and who we are, But I can see that we're now ready to move significantly forward on an accelerated basis with a commercial partner. Okay. We do have one more question from Tom. But if if anyone else has got any more questions, please feel free to submit them online, as we speak. So Tom asked another question. The NHS always seems to be delayed when doing anything. Will you not be better positioned to focus efforts on other geographies? We are. I mean, we we've never been only focused on the NHS, so that would suggest that we were, and we're not. The sad thing is that we're focused in Europe and The US, which is starting to grow faster than our home base, our backyard.

34:39 And I, for one, because we all live here and we feel that we're trying to be community focused, would like to make sure the world's best tests are available in our own backyard. And given that it is our backyard and given that we are growing and given that we can make coffers and improve, you know, the the the Rachel Reeves tax returns, it would be nice to see a bit of circular funding support for what we're doing at the globally leading edge, paying back in tax coffers to Rachel Reeves. I mean, there's a there's a there's something about this that is completely right and something about the way that we're currently managing the NHS, which is completely wrong. So the earlier question about political, yes, we're trying to get messages up to the right people, and we do believe that they've got the right intent. But sometimes you have to bring it, you know, front and fore, black and white to make it very clear, and we're having to do that ever more. So it's a little bit frustrating given the amount of effort and work going on.

35:36 Okay. That's the last question. Unless anybody else have got anything else, we will hand back to Alex. That's great, Paul. Matthew, thank you very much indeed for addressing all those questions for investors today. And of course, the company can review your questions today, and we'll publish those responses on the investment company platform. But, Matthew, before we direct investors to provide you with their feedback, which one is particularly important to the company, could I please ask you for a few closing comments? First one is thank you to our investors because as, anybody who's journeyed with us knows how tough it is in the current markets. So thank you for for supporting us, on the journey. I hope you can see the progress we're making is now getting significant. The piece is getting bigger, and it's getting more exciting. And for me, the business model now is all about driving that top line and improving the rate at which we move it and accelerate it. So, you know, stand firm with us.

36:33 Please let us know if there's anything that you want more information on. We're always I'm always available, and I look forward to speaking to you if you have any further questions. But, no, thank you everyone for your time and for attending the meeting. That's great. Matthew, Paul, thank you once again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the board can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the mind front team of GENINCODE PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good morning to you all.