Gelion (LSE:GELN) — Corporate developments and progress

0:01 Good morning. Welcome to GELN PLC Corporate Development and Progress Investor Presentation. Throughout the recorded meeting, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted any time by the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Just simply type your question and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. Have the company review questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll. And now let's hand you over to John Wood, CEO. Good morning,

0:30 Good morning, Paul. Hey. Great for this opportunity to update you all today. I'm gonna give a a special sort of focused presentation for you about some progress we'll be making, some exciting developments, particularly in the area of our GELION sulfur battery technologies. Now there'll be a few takeaways from this presentation. The first one is that we've got some remarkable progress being made on software. It's been a quite a progression. We've got ourselves into an important position. We're gonna be sharing some breakthrough results. Secondly, those results have been recognized externally commercially. So we're gonna talk about some of our activities towards collaboration with corporate strategics.

1:18 Thirdly, we're gonna talk about the fact that our integration business is bringing on revenue and margin for us now. So early first revenue and margin, we'll discuss that in the course of this presentation, one of the takeaways as well. Still incubating our recycling and our zinc businesses. And today, though, we're gonna focus on on those particular highlights.

1:42 Now I have a presentation team with me today from Sydney, Australia. I'm sitting in London. We have our CFO, Amit Gupta. We have our CTO, Louis Adriansens, and we have our our president of UK and Europe sitting with me in the office, Adrian Amig, and we're also very lucky today to have with us one of our nonexecutive directors, mister Graham Cooley, who I think everybody knows has a lot of experience in taking innovation through the cycles to commercialization. So cross to M, if you can give backgrounds.

2:28 Good morning, everyone. My name is Ahmed. I'm the CFO of GELN. Been with GELN for almost four years now. Fantastic.

2:37 I made great progress this particular year. I mean, FY '25 is is a transformative transformative year for us given we are we are going to start generating revenue and margins and the software technology development is going, making really, really good progress. Great to be presenting our results and some forecast numbers to you today as well.

2:57 Thank you, Eric. Louis? Yeah. Thanks, My name is Louis. I'm CTO at GELION. My background before joining GELION was in battery manufacture. I worked for Panasonic at the Tesla Gigafactory, and Panasonic's job there was to make the actual battery cells, which was sent across to the other side of the factory where Tesla put them into modules. Now the position I had was supervisor of chemistry, and that position looked over the chemistry aspects of a system that produced or factory that produced five and a half million batteries every

3:31 day. And so my goal here at GELNINE for the last one and a half years has been to take the technology we're gonna show you today and bring it to that same eye watering scale of production. Good morning. My name is Adrian Lee. I'm the president of GELN UK in Europe. I also have a background in battery science. I have worked on software batteries for over ten years now, and I joined the company by way of acquisition manager for a two years ago. And I am now supporting John in the growth of the company in Europe. Graham, I'll give you the background as well. Yeah. Thank you. So I'm Graham Cooley, delighted to be an investor in July and then also a nonexec director of the company. You're gonna see some fantastic results today.

4:18 I have a background in, energy storage, and, pleased to say I've been able to achieve two, unicorn companies, in the area of energy storage. So, really delighted to be here. I'm John Wood. I'm the CEO. Now I've only had one unicorn in my history, but four companies that I've built and have gone on to be quiet at my office. I joined GELION quite simply. I had started to invest in sustainability, and I was enticed to join GELION by the opportunity to to work with the remarkable professor Thomas Mushmaier. So Thomas is our founder from the University of Sydney, regarded as one of the top 15 chemists on planet, and an absolute treasure in what he brings to our company.

5:15 It has been everything I've been seeking and working with. And alongside Thomas, he brings along some of the best people and capabilities, and we'll talk a little bit about that in terms of the extension to Max Planck that came from an instruction by by Thomas a little bit later in his presentation. So our agenda, I'll take you through the proposition, our business model and partnerships. I'll talk about our product technology. Oh, sorry. Adrian will introduce the IP and the and the technology and actually then pass to Louis, who's going to give you some access to some of these test results and explain those test results to Amit will then come in to talk about the financial snapshot and the capital raise outcome. I'll then talk about the outlook and and where we're going from here.

6:05 Alright. So why sulfur, and and why are we so excited about this this all? The diagram you see in front of you represents the growth in the battery industry. This is now a maturing industry. This is an industry growing extremely fastly, but there's a lot of demand on that industry. We basically need to move from that bottom left corner where you see that 3,000 gigawatt hours up to a scale of the order of 240,000 gigawatt hours. Now the primary determinant in pulling that off is strategic materials, and, of course, that's becoming more and more topical today with countries looking to secure their independence in their supply chains.

6:50 This diagram shows you the current status today around the world. It's not pointed anywhere, but China is doing a a big job bringing in new renewable technologies. But on the other hand, China is dominating the supply chain for those new renewable technologies as well. So in order to get the big prize and and move forward in the energy transition, what we need to do is to make battery materials a bit more agnostic and more available and to grow them to the scale of the sulfur, quite simply, is major resource to be able to do that. If you look at the the circles, there's actually three circles on the right hand side. Mine is so tiny. It looks like a dot. What you're looking at is the abundance of materials and the availability of materials. So you can see that sulfur is simply huge.

7:41 So, alright, we've got this abundant low cost material. So what's the challenge? What are we looking to do? People have been working towards commercializing sulfur battery technologies for some time. It's been a gnarly challenge to to bring it along. Sulfur has huge advantages. It's lightweight, very lightweight. It's basically the the lightest battery. You could do a lithium air battery, but then you're dealing with oxygen as a gas instead of using a solid. Very, very difficult. So in practical terms, it's it's probably the lightest weight battery. It's low cost. It's abundant, and it's environmentally friendly. However, historically, sulfur has suffered a couple of challenges.

8:27 The first one of those is in power. How quick can I charge and how quick can I discharge the cell? It has not been a good technology for power. And secondly, it's had a challenge on cycle life. How long can how how long can I cycle for? So what we're doing with our most recent breakthroughs in relationships and collaborations is we're no longer trying to be the best lithium sulfur company. We're actually trying to move sulfur up into the top quadrant here in cycle life and and in power. In other words, our ambitious goal is to move sulfur to where we can compete with LFP, the incumbent in ESS, and where we can compete with lithium, manganese, nickel, cobalt in high end transportation.

9:22 To do that, we need all of the all of the elements. We need the the lightweight, the low cost, the environmentally friendly, the high power, and to have a cell that cycles for a long time. So how do we put this together? I've been CEO now for two and a half years, and in that time, GELION has moved very, very quickly to assemble a compelling position in sulfur. We're very fortunate to have been able to build on the original IP that was contributed by professor Mashmeyer as part of the IPO. But quickly on top of that, we acquired the Oxford portfolio of lithium sulfur technologies from Johnson and Mafia. And, of course, Oxford had put in, I believe, in the order of a £100,000,000, we consider the capital and the government grants over the course of ten years to develop a a fundamental platform, the the basis of IP, some 220 patents that we acquired.

10:23 Now we picked that that technology foundation up with enhanced our own IP. We've developed our facilities and capabilities, really built a strong team. The people that are joining me on this call today and the rest of my leadership team in July are first class. So we have great team, great facilities, great IP.

10:44 And then we needed that last piece that you see in in the bottom left corner of that square. That's the deep tech collaboration partnership that we put in place with Max Planck. That is really important to us because that is delivering to us the power and cycle life that we have been seeking. So all the applications that you see down there in the bottom left bottom right corner, I'm sorry, ESS, grid, and remote power and transportation. They need a a well rounded cell. You need to have all of the capabilities. Max Planck had been doing remarkable materials development, one of the most amazing materials development centers in the on the planet under the remarkable guidance of professor Marcus Santonietti.

11:37 And they've got they had breakthrough results with sulfur applying new new very new technology approach, and it's shown in their testing that they could get more than a thousand cycles under certain strenuous conditions, and that they could charge and discharge at up to six minutes. Now in the sulfur world, that's remarkable. So that's a significant extension in sulfur life. It's a significant extension in power capabilities. We're blessed to have an introduction from our founder, professor Thomas Marshmire, to professor Antonie Eti, and then we got to know the the team over there and their capabilities. We put in place a three year collaboration agreement.

12:26 Having all the elements now, having a sound IP portfolio, all of our patents and all of the tech the base technology foundation, we also acquired Oxlid, which we've brought Adrian as we moved along in a team in The UK. Having set that foundation, what we're setting about now is to put in place strategic partnerships as the third element in our plan. Now

12:53 looking at this map, you can see up in up in The UK and Europe, we've got strong relationships in in The UK with Faraday, the UK government's battery initiative. We've got now a strong relationship with with Max Planck. Down in Australia. The relationship's working with the Australian government and give a big call out to Arena, amazing support for Australian industry from Arena in Australia. And we're reaching into into The US. But the the fact is that think it's 95% of the world's batteries are made in four countries. You can see those countries there, and that's Japan, South Korea, and China, where they're actually made in those three with aspirations that India will become a major producer alongside of the other four. So that's where the world's batteries are being made today.

13:44 GELION's approach is simple. We don't wanna build a Gigafactory. We don't wanna go and fight the incumbency. What we wanna do is to find our way into the supply chain and integrate into the supply chain. So what you will see us progress to do now is to build on this progression, have the best technology, build on extraordinary material science capabilities, the three year program with Max Planck building on work they've done. They take those materials and convert those materials into the capability to scale them up for production. It's where Professor Thomas Mushmeier's particular skills, individual skills, lie most deeply in this area and in analytics.

14:30 So we're building now on these capabilities and doing it off a base of excellence supported by our IP and our patents. Okay. Now what do we have to do next? What we have to do now is find our way into the supply chain, and that's to adapt our materials into the cell manufacturing processes. We don't want to build a gigafactory. It takes billions of it takes years, and people have already done it. So what we aim to do is to take our sulfur cathode technologies and some of the sodium nanotechnology we'll talk about later, and adapt those as materials. So we want be a materials and licensing product. So my goal, and that of my team, from here now, our next goal is to get out and prove that we're important to the supply chain by putting in place collaborations in that supply chain.

15:18 So a capital light business model is what we're adopting. You can see that we aim to produce materials, even though the production of those materials may be told manufacturing to us. We aim to have the cells produced through collaboration with tier one manufacturers, and we indeed may be selling some of those cells, but they'll be manufactured by the manufacturers. So again, tall manufacturing for us. And then up at the top end of our business, keeping us in touch every day with the real real world customers, we're developing our integration business and a bit of a call out to to Stuart and Nick here, our our team that's working on integration and opening those doors for us and cracking into those markets doing an excellent job. So you'll see GELION working on revenue and margin up at the top there, working on a capital light model to develop value as quickly as we can with our software technologies. I'll now pass to Adrian.

16:18 Thank you, Jen. Now as Jen just has just highlighted, GELN is not a battery manufacturer. We are a materials manufacturer. What you can see on the right hand side of the slide here in the background of the black powder is our product. This is what we call a sulfur active material, and this is what we use to manufacture cathodes that are then integrated into batteries.

16:42 Now there is a big USP for our our gas metal, which is that it is very low cost. Why? Two reasons. Because we are using off the shelf standard equipment to manufacture it. And secondly, it uses sulfur, which is much, much cheaper than competing cathode technologies. And therefore, we've got really the opportunity to have a very high margin product. Now the the the product will be delivered to our customers, which will be cell manufacturers and batch manufacturers in the form of a powder. And it is them who are going to process this powder this powder powder and make it make it into a cathode. So what they're going to do is they're going to take the powder, they're going to mix it with a solvent, which can be water or off the shelf alkaline solvents or use it to iron, some additives, binders, and made what we call a slurry.

17:32 And this slurry will be cast onto, for the course of a current collector, which typically is aluminum foil. And when dried, this is what is called a cathode. And then the the battery manufacturer will be able to cut this cathode and integrate it into any cell format moving forward. Now the important point for our product is that it can be processed using existing lithium ion cathode manufacturing capabilities. So it's very easy for our customers to adopt our chemistry.

18:07 Now this is supported by a very strong IP portfolio. We've got 229 patents across the software and battery chain, on the software and the cathode, of course, but also on other parts of battery, on on the on the electrolytes. But importantly, on the battery management system as well, which also underpins our battery integration business that John will talk you through later in this presentation. It took us a few years to put this really impressive people story together. It all started with the generation of a patent from our founder, professor Thomas Mashmayer at the University of Sydney. Then GELION acquired in early twenty twenty three the Johnson Matthey and OxySynergy IP portfolio worth over a £100,000,000 of investments into the r and d.

19:00 Then GELION acquired OXIP, the company which I founded, which came alongside a very important license from the University of Oxford. And then finally, the last missing piece of the puzzle, the IP from the Max Learning Institute. And now this represents a really comprehensive IP portfolio, which will allow us to partner with cell manufacturers so that they can integrate our software technology into a range of petrochemicals to electrify broad range of applications and stream. Now, Lewis, would you like to explain to the audience what the Maxwell Institute of Technology is about?

19:46 Yeah. Sure. Thank you, Adrian. So these are the results on this plot that have us so excited. And I'm gonna try to do my best to talk you through them so you can appreciate them and and and hopefully see the beauty in them that we at GELION see. So in order to understand this plot, there's a terminology which is useful to have in mind, to have a rough understanding of. That's called the c rate. The c rate is a term that's used commonly in battery development to to qualify or to determine the quality of a battery, specifically with relation to its power capability. What it essentially tells you is the rate at which you draw current out of a battery or put current into a battery. So if we start at the left hand side of this plot, you'll see a a term 0.1 c.

20:36 That corresponds to a full discharge or a full charge of the battery over ten hours. And this is a rate of of use of current which is relevant to some aspects of stationary storage,

20:50 but not much beyond that. Right? And, typically, sulfur batteries have kinda been stuck there. Right? They couldn't really get much beyond 0.1 c. Now you could get some going to 0.2 c as we walk over to the right, 0.5 c, but getting above 0.5 c was always a challenge. Now with this technology that we have, you can see that even at one c, we're able to maintain pretty good capacity, and that's the distance we are from the the the horizontal axis. Right? So we lose only a very small fraction of our capacity going from 0.1 c to one c. Now one c corresponds to a full discharge or a full charge in one hour. And now you're talking about a power capability which is relevant to EVs and which is relevant to different aspects of stationary storage, so for instance, backup power. So in an EV, if for instance, you think you drive your EV, you're driving it for about, on the order of a couple hours, three hours, one c corresponds to that rate.

21:47 And it's really, really important that we can hit that rate if we want to target our batteries to that huge market. Now even more impressive, we can keep walking to the right beyond one c to two c to five c even retaining pretty good capacity, 66 of capacity at 10 c. 10 c corresponds to a full discharge or a full charge in one tenth of an hour or six minutes. So now we have power capabilities that align with the best power capabilities in LFP. This this BYD blade, which was released recently, which they've been talking about being able to charge in six minutes. Our technology is capable of that fast rate. So as that infrastructure comes online, we can use batteries made with this technology, and we can charge them in six minutes.

22:33 Also, for applications like drones where you have a big power requirement in takeoff, vertical takeoff, and vertical landing, this battery technology is able to handle that. So this plot shows very well how we're able to take those power capabilities, and I hope also we've been able to explain a little bit how those power capabilities translate to relevance to different markets. Now in addition to power capabilities, as John said, Max Planck has shown that this technology is able to not just cycle at high power, but also cycle for strong cycle life. So they've shown that they can take this up to a 500 cycles, and they can do that at very, very good c rates. So one c or two c, not a not a low power, but actually a high power and still retain good cycle. So if you give me a click to the next slide, we can talk about how this fits in with products.

23:23 So as Adrian and John said, we're not a battery manufacturer. We make a material. We make cathode active material. And the benefit of this is is that that cathode active material can fit into our strategic partners, our corporate partners. It can fit into the different batteries that they make. Right? So our powder fits into those pink tiles at the top. It's the cathode active material. It's the key component of those pink tiles. And, nicely, we can match those pink tiles with the technologies of our partners, and we can access different battery types. So, again, if we start on the left, we have what we call advanced lithium sulfur. This is a battery targeted to the drone market. You can take the 400 watt hours per kilogram that we've already achieved. And now with the with access to the SMAS plant technology, we'll be able to take that to much, much higher cycle life and much higher power capability, and we'll be able to make successful drones with it.

24:14 All the way on the right, you have the all solid state lithium sulfur battery. We've announced some results on solid state. We're gonna apply the Max Planck material and perhaps perhaps combine that with the solid state material, and we'll make a good battery for EVs. And in the middle, we have the new technology, which Max Planck has opened up to us, which is the sodium sulfur battery. Now we're really excited about this because we told you about how cheap sulfur is and how abundant it is. Sodium is also similarly cheap and abundant. You probably have quite a bit of sodium, on your kitchen table. So we can take those two elements. We can put them together, and we can make a sodium sulfur battery, which is gonna be slightly less perform less higher performance than the than the lithium sulfur battery, but it will be exceptionally cheap, and it'll be a great battery for your stationary energy storage and your economy EV market.

25:01 So if you give me one more click over, please.

25:04 Alright. So you can see we're excited about it. We're not the only ones. We were very grateful to be given a grant by the Australian government. This is a $5,000,000 grant, which equates to roughly £2,500,000. It it pays for half of a new £5,000,000 or 10,000,000 AUD facility that we're putting in Sydney. This facility is gonna be dedicated to scaling up the max bank materials so we can make a lot of it. We can get it out to those strategic partners, and we can we can get them on board, get the interest humming, and also to the adaptation of that technology to some more commercially relevant cell types. The reason that we want to do that is we can then take those cell types, and we can talk not just to not just to materials partners, not just to cell manufacturing partners, but also crucially to off take partners. For instance, GELNCOR, who are a partner we have and who we would take these these cells, send them the cells, and get them to have a look and hopefully draw a interest from an offtake partner.

26:07 So with that, I'll hand back to John, and he can tell you about how the integration business fits in with all the technology we've talked to you about just now. Thank you, Louie. Okay. So the first part of this presentation, we're talking to you about GELN, the the the sulfur battery company. We anticipate building a lot of value in that side of our business. So we talked about the the government grant, the three year grant, the ACPC. We talked about the three year collaboration with Max Planck. Talked about the activities that we're doing to develop our corporate strategic relationships.

26:47 It's on the way from Australia, being through Japan, Korea sorry, Japan, China, India. Had a team in Korea as well. Those activities are very, very active right now, so we're having a lot of conversations, discussions. We'll talk about an MTA we'll put in place as we progress the presentation.

27:08 But there is another side of our business as well, and that's the integration solutions business. So this is where we're starting to develop revenue and and margin. Now this is using third party cells. So the synergy between these two things. In the course of that those visits to Asia, we were meeting with founders of the largest companies or or CEOs or CTOs or their or their respective business line person in each case, and these are the leading companies. We are, through our self award, able to command access and recognition, which is fairly serious.

27:54 These are also the suppliers that make the cells that are utilized in ESS systems today, the leading suppliers. We see opportunity for synergy. The integration business can be fairly ordinary if you don't have a unique differentiation. We see that the relationships that we're establishing on the sulfur side of our business has been differentiation in what we're doing in integration solutions, making it possible for us to access the very best technologies and to access those technologies in competitive way to turn that into revenue and margin for our shareholders. Very pleased with the work our team is doing. They're a great team. It's a small team at this stage, but they're making good progress.

28:43 We're very happy with the progress, particularly. We took on a a project with with Paul, and that project is going very well, progressing systematically, and it's leading to early revenue. So we just recently announced that we'll be taking up £780,000, and our goal is to continue to grow this business. So we'll be investing in in the development of this business alongside the development of our our sulfur business. Very excited by that progression. Okay. I'm gonna go to a snapshot of our our financial performance. And to for that, I'll pass to Abbott Gupta, our CFO. So on this slide, we are presenting f y twenty three and f y twenty four results. F y twenty four is June 2024 year end.

29:40 Why am I presenting this? Because we have presented these results before. It's purely for context. Unless I present the historic results, it's hard to appreciate what we are going to do

29:48 for FY '25. Over the last few years, we have continued to improve our financial performance, accessed non dilutive government grants, improved our operations, driving operation efficiencies, enhancing team performance without leading to cost savings of 1,600,000 or 21% when you compare it to the f y twenty three levels. That is significant. We have to consider the cost savings and also consider the amount of work that's been undertaken by the team and the developments that we have made. Looking ahead to f y twenty five, it's quite exciting that John was talking about the integration business. That business is growing really well, and we have a very strong pipeline. And we hope to convert some of the pipeline customers into real customers shortly as well.

30:42 What this slide shows is GELION remains focused on delivering innovation with discipline. In f y twenty five, you see this massive revenue growth of 34%, 35%, primarily through the integration revenue generation, so a million pounds. In terms of sequence of events, the containerized best is has reached Australia. The plan is to get it delivered to the customer by mid next week when we recognize 80% of revenue and the remaining 20% in sometime mid June when it's successfully commissioned. So this is what we said when we released the announcement in October, November last year, and we have delivered on those results as well. This revenue growth and the margin from this deal combined with operational efficiencies is obviously expected to deliver better financial outcomes.

31:35 In f y twenty four, our adjusted EBITDA loss was £4,800,000. In f y twenty five, we are forecasting that to go down by another 10% to f to £4,300,000. That's a 10% improvement in f y twenty four, but 28% improvement on f y twenty three. I'd also like to highlight that this forecast adjusted EBITDA is approximately 16% lower than what the analyst forecast was when that was released in March early this year. Most importantly, we are now generating revenue and margins whilst we continue to advance our technology and gain industry validation. We are getting closer to commercial sustainability and long term value creation for our shareholders. So we appreciate the patience that everyone has shown, but I'll pass this pass it back to John for closing comments.

32:23 I have to I have to give a call out here to Amit. Amit is silencing his and his efforts is performing brilliantly and has been a a great partner as we've been working through the process of improving the quality of the business and reducing costs at the same time. I think we have, in July, one of the most amazing growth prospects in terms of growth and value in all the work that we're doing in our in our core technologies. And yet you can see from these graphs that we've really been disciplined in in our management as we've done that. We've also significantly enhanced our team as we've gone along. Both Louis and Adrian have been additions as we've brought this on and the team in The UK.

33:13 So fantastic work across the team there. Okay. We have recently completed a capital raise, and we're very grateful to all the supporters who participated in that raise with us. It was oversubscribed in that we did raise 2 point approximately 2,600,000, which is subject to the general meeting, of course, in May. Strong participation from both existing and new invest investors, and we're very happy to that to to achieve that in the in the current market that we're working Use of funds. We're gonna be applying those funds diligently as we as we annotate with everything that we do.

34:02 So we'll be applying those funds to building the value that's been unlocked by the combination of all of the platform of technology that

34:10 we built up, the IP and the acquisitions, and then complemented by the Max Planck piece that we put in there. So very excited about doing that. There will be business development. We believe that we have something very important, a very important breakthrough for our industry that, for once, we can see that sulfur can go beyond lithium ion in many areas. And so we'll be letting the industry know that in establishing our position. My primary goal, and that which I'm leading our team towards, is to put in place corporate collaboration to build on the platform that we do. And while we're doing that, we'll be supporting our integration business to to grow, and we'll we'll utilize this also for for working capital.

35:01 So in summary, this is simply the most exciting time for July since I've been a CEO. We have now a very strong product market fit proposition. We have work to do, and that's why we put in place these term collaborations, the collaboration with Max Planck, the ACPC, and that's why we put in place supply chain collaboration. So there is work to do, but our lithium sulfur path has potential to be the super compelling product for high end transportation. And our sodium sulfur, our room temperature sodium sulfur product, both building on the on the same sulfur cathode technology. So any sulfur product quite simply can be one of the most important products in the whole energy storage industry. When you look for long duration energy storage, you look for being able to value stack applications in grid ancillary services, off grid markets, the potential for room temperature sodium sulphur is absolutely enormous.

36:14 It is fundamentally now a turning point that we've been able to match technologies to enormous markets. We have strong intellectual property that we've assembled. We have signed an MTA, so the progression is generally MTA, then you move to an MTA. An MTA is a materials transfer agreement where basically manufacturers are testing your materials to validate the test results that you've got. Then you move from MTA and you work towards collaboration. So that's the systematic progression. And to have an MTA signed with a tier one battery manufacturer, and also to have strong collaboration engagements or discussions, whatever you want to call them, with multiple suppliers across the territories that I showed you earlier, has put us into a strong position. We're going to be working that really hard in the next few months.

37:11 Major partnerships in development, we're working we know where we want to go, the capital light model. We want to go on this path to maximize value for our shareholders, margin, while keeping demands on capital light. Got our early revenue going, very proud of that group. Thank you guys for all the hard work you're doing. Good backing from The UK and Australian governments, and we're in a large and high growth market. So batteries is always risk, but on the other side, there's huge opportunity, and certainly we've been working very hard on risk mitigation and to maximise the scope of the opportunity for your company. Thank you for this opportunity to share this presentation with you, my my team.

37:56 We have a lot of questions. I'll get into those as usual, and we'll try to progress through the questions as quickly as we can. Fantastic. John and the team, thank you so much for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, do please continue to submit your questions just using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of the screen. Just while the team take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I'd like to remind you, recording the presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via your investor dashboard. John, as you said, we've had a number of questions both pre submitting throughout today's presentation. Thank you for everyone for submitting those. Can I please ask you just to click on that q and a tab, start at the top, just read out the question where appropriate to do so, and I'll pick up from you at the end? Thank you. So in order, here we go. First question, does GELN foresee any competition from graphene batteries?

38:43 Not at the moment, but what I would say is battery technologies are introduced on a progression. The progression that I'm seeing at the moment, lithium ferrous phosphate, lithium manganese, nickel cobalt, they're they're the incumbents today. You're gonna see high silicon start come in in the industry. You're gonna start to see sulfur state come into the industry. And the one that I believe will follow that is sulfur based cathode technology. So I think that we're on sort of a train with what we're doing with sulfur, and that all of these technologies are going to find their position. When do you expect income to flow, bottom line profit to be seen? Income is flowing. That's happening through our integration business. I have not yet given you a projection on when profit is gonna be seen on the bottom line.

39:33 The in the integration business has a lot of prospects. Let's let's travel that journey together as we progress, but we do have income flowing today and margin. Ken, you comment on the next trade, sodium ion battery. What a great announcement by CATL. What are they saying? Well, it's authenticating sodium ion. Sodium ion and lithium ion. Lithium for high performance, sodium potency and low cost. GELION? Oh, oops. We've got sodium and lithium covered with our with our sulfur technologies. We see sulfur coming behind. So we see that it's been very encouraging. Louis? I I can add something to that. So so it is it is a very important announcement. So it's a very good high performance sodium ion battery. To the best of my knowledge, it is the first mass produced sodium ion battery.

40:25 You know, things like this are incredibly encouraging for us because we're gonna be able to take our sulfur cathode and replace the cathode that cattle currently use to make their natural battery. Right? And it means that all of the infrastructure required to actually do that mass production is already in place. So we just take our powder, put it in in the right place, feed it through, and we make batteries that hopefully operate at least as well as an extra battery battery. We can make them in mass production because the facilities are already there, and we do it with a cheaper, more sustainable, more abundant cathode active material, which is based on sulfur. Beautiful. Thanks, Zoe. The recycling project is promising. Hell yeah. Young Jake who's leading that project is doing a great job.

41:11 How much competition exists? It's actually a lot. There's a lot of competition in recycling, but we have a good foundation of technology that we got from John Sebastian, and we have a great young leader who's working that really hard at the moment. So we're in there competing. It's been great progress over the last year, so congratulations to Giant. Thank you. I have three questions. That's not too many. One, does the MTA with the tier one battery manufacturer include exclusivity clauses or can Giant work votes? This is a really good question. And at the moment, we are doing two things. One is we're developing relationships with manufacturers in the supply chains across those core geographies that I shared earlier.

42:01 Now that does give us geopolitical questions as well in the way that we approach it. I hope all of those geopolitics have settled down and we're able to utilize the best around the world for the purposes of the energy transition. But they are considerations. I think the big consideration that I'm gonna be working through with my board is should GELION be aspiring to set up competitive tension between manufacturers as core partners, or should GELION be aspiring to work across all the geographies? And that's something that I certainly will be taken up with, with Graham and Steve and all the rest of our directors as we progress. So it's not exclusive, and we will be looking at both sides of where we should be working exclusively or broadly.

42:51 I recently read that the Smart Energy Council has signed an MOU with the government of Uttar Pradesh as Julyan's part of the efforts to forge closer flights. We're working really hard in India. We love working in India. We love working in all the areas that I've discussed, and we're working really hard to become part of that global community. What opportunities exist for GELION in this country? Well, I think talking specifically about India, what India wants most is India wants to develop to become a manufacturing peer to China. So China controls a lot of the technology at the moment and a lot of production. India would aspire to be a major global supplier as well, and India would aspire to be able to have an independent supply chain. Now I think that GELION with sulfur can make batteries better in China.

43:43 They can make batteries we make batteries better in India. We make batteries better in Japan. We make batteries better in South Korea. Make batteries better in Europe and in The USA. So I'm hoping that sulfur ends up being that supply chain equalizer that really steps up the competition between nations in our industry. It certainly has the potential to do that, being a chemistry in sulfur and sodium, particularly being chemistries that could be manufactured from materials that are available anywhere. Finally, would it be worthwhile engaging in more media events outside the industry? We're trying. We're certainly stepping that up, and we agree with you. With having the compelling proposition that we have now, it's certainly a good time for us to be doing more around letting people know.

44:32 John, do you mind if I add something on that question, if that's okay? So it's probably worth you all knowing that the business development in the background is incredibly strong. Some of the companies that John has been talking to are in the top 10 or 20 of lithium ion battery manufacturers worldwide. So the significance of the business development, I would say, is is very, very strong, and John's doing a fantastic job in that area. Thank you, Graham. Working hard at it. Putting the putting putting the the the big yards in with my team. Alright. So this the announcement it's announced that the company signed a term at NTA. Which company is it with?

45:18 When will we find out? Not yet. Sorry. I didn't wanna be flipping on that one. We we've held the name for a number of reasons. What is the nature of the relationship and what is the capacity to earn revenue from it? So I showed you a graph earlier. I showed you a diagram earlier, and we had Max Planck, we had Thomas, and then we had a partner. We told you that we had the free funding from the Australian government. What we want to do is we want to click in collaboration partners, and the goal of that is to come out the end of that site with full cells. So we would be providing the cathode active material, the sulfur material. They would be complementing what we're doing, so we anticipate our collaboration partners bringing technologies with them like lithium metal technologies, lithium metal production technologies, pre lithiation technologies, solid state technologies and production technologies.

46:17 Together, working together, we then resolve the full cells from production, and we take those cells out. So you're going to see the two parts of GELION growing very quickly. You'll see us grow. We want to be the leader globally. We want to be the company that really brings sulfur cathode materials and does the breakthrough worldwide. It's actually what Thomas tasked me when I first joined GELION with achieving dominance in an area of the battery technology industry, and now we have a chance to do that. Okay. What was the recent why was the recent retail offer not available to Australian shareholders? Look, we try everything that we can to involve every all of our shareholders.

47:10 The process was resolved in the end that we had to do the book build in The UK. The Australian shareholders, we couldn't put on a separate exercise in Australia based on what was required at the time. It's no disrespect to any individual shareholder there. We love all our shareholders, but the company is listed on AIM, and we we utilize the process to the shareholders' best interests. What is the pathway to the company scaling up production manufacturing the battery material in order to supply volume to battery manufacturers? What challenges, obstacles need to be met? Well, that's something I could spend an hour on, but what we need to do is the discipline about ensuring that we meet all of the capabilities that are needed for a battery.

48:03 I gave a presentation yesterday up at Cambridge, and it was called where the periodic table meets a Rubik's cube. The analogy of the Rubik's cube is it's not enough to have a battery that can do high energy density alone. You must have a battery that does all of the characteristics, whether it's high energy density power, or cold and hot temperatures, the whole package. And it must be able to be produced at scale. What I can tell you is that there are challenges in that, but I've got the best in the world, I believe I've got access to the best in the world to do that, and the way that we're going to proceed against that is working with Max Planck at the material side, working with Thomas and team on the capabilities to scale that material, and then working with the tier one manufacturers to actually introduce it into cells. By breaking it down that way, by working with the best in each one of those segments, we can move quicker than if we were to try to do everything ourselves.

48:57 When does GELION expect to break even? I started answering that question from revenue generation from a spironolithium sulfur, sodium sulfur to battery manufacturers in the best business. It's very hard to predict directly the timeframe that that will be doing on. What we what we can say is that I believe that I'll answer it this way and say, what we're doing is already important to the end users. So we're able to demonstrate now to the guys that are making electric vehicles, that are making drones, that are making ESS, that sulfur is gonna hit targets that are gonna be important to them in definable time frames.

49:47 As we become important to those end customers, we become increasingly important to the supply chain, to the manufacturers that we're working on as well. I can tell you that in my meetings with the tier one manufacturers on my way up to London on this trip, I was surprised by how aggressive they were about how far they thought they could pull our program forward. So as we put those collaborations in place, I'm hoping that we can move quite quickly, but we're putting in place three year time frames around the max plane. We're putting three year time frames around our ACPC. I guess what the the tier one manufacturers are saying is they can move as much faster than that. But that's to be seen. Again, do do you mind if I just add one thing, John? So becoming cash flow positive, you you might think of that as being time driven, but you also might think of it as being event driven.

50:44 And the event might be an investment from a major corporate partner. So could well be event driven. Graham, I I think, you know, if we were private company today, our valuation would be don't if I'm allowed to say that. It would be significantly different. But I think that what the public market needs from us is external recognition of the importance of what we do. Exactly. And so when we recognize that important that importance by corporate strategic partners coming in, I think that's gonna lead to a lot of value for our shareholders. Yeah. Totally agree. I'm allowed to say that. Do the how do the batteries deal with heat and extreme cold, and how much heat does the software technology create? Yeah. Actually, this is a very important question. Yes. We're seeing that in our testing that we're able to deal both with heat and cold, and we're really pleased with that.

51:42 What's the period of the MTA? When do you expect the announcements? That's in the control of our partners about the results. We'll be working along with them and setting in place the plan. But at the same time, as we're working on the MTA, of course, we're working on putting in collaboration agreements in place. So that's part of our commercialization program. Moving quick. Can the Max Planck? We were able to validate the Max Planck results reasonably quickly. That only took us in a matter of weeks and months. Can the Max Planck cathode technology, when integrated with GELION's sulfur cathode, avoid the need to fabricate externally? We have huge aspirations for how much of this material is gonna be fabricated.

52:29 So we'll be developing the fabrication technologies internally, And then whether we form collaboration partnerships to toll manufacturing the material or whether we manufacture the material ourselves, that would be commercial decisions taken by the board of directors that I'll consult when it comes to that time. That'll be a case of how quick are we moving, I think. It's attractive at the moment to think about working with some of the largest manufacturers. So some of the supply chain development activities I've been doing with major corporates have actually been with material manufacturers, as well as doing it with cell manufacturers. Under the sorry, How does it reduce recent breakthroughs with sodium ion batteries by CO2 impact? John, we have sort of answered that already. Gilly gave a great answer to that question.

53:21 But bring on sodium. We believe sodium sulfur is the most abundant cell. Are you going to defend copycat pirate producers of your technology? Hell yeah. We will fight to make sure that we defend all of the rights that have been developed with the great assistance of our shareholders. When you see sulfur being used in commercial batteries, any thoughts on timelines for adoption? In the shortest term, there are paths to see early adoption of sulfur for applications like like drones. To actually make those applications real, you needed breakthroughs in power.

54:07 We have we see a path to those breakthrough in power at the moment. So you can see reasonably early opportunities for revenue down that that path with the the new breakthrough capabilities we've got in the in the chemistry. Then you can see progressive integration of the sulfur into different applications. What I am prepared to say now is I'm very, very, very confident that sulfur will be one of the most important breakthroughs in the battery industry. That's what I've been committed myself to. And secondly, that when it does, then July will be amongst the leaders at that point in time, so that will bring value through to our shareholders. And and the MTA oh, sorry. Can you comment on risk with the energy costs associated with reducing the cathode raw material in Australia? Yeah.

54:58 Look. That's not a real problem. The one of the I'll I'll I'll finish this as the last question. So I'll finish it in a particular way for you. The technology that we're utilizing works in a particular way. It uses low cost materials, and we actually formulate the cathode material using a straightforward and commercial method that can be developed using existing production techniques. The particular breakthrough works to constrain the sulphur in a way that firstly controls that only the sodium and lithium can get to it, and that stops certain side reactions from going on that would degrade the technology.

55:46 And also, it controls reactions that the sulfur can do. So it redefines sulfur sulfur technology. That's what the industry's been looking for. Very happy that GELION has been able to move so quickly. I mean, it sounds like a long time, but in the last sort of 2.5, to be able to get the Max Planck sorry, to get the the original OXS technology, be able to bring Adrian and the team from Oxalead on board, be able to put the Max Planck agreement in place, now to be able to go out to something that is truly globally important and to target corporate relationships, we've been moving very quickly as a battery technology company. So this is the important time for us. I do want to say again, thank you to all of the investors that came in to this round. Thank you for all of our existing investors for your support, and welcome to any of you that are listening to GELN for the first time or have listened a few times and decided this could could be the key time to enter our company. It's an exciting selling journey, and thank you.

56:59 Fantastic, John. Thank you very much indeed for wrapping up there and updating investors today. Can I please ask investors not to close the session? You should now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that your views and expectations can be better understood by the team. It's going take a few moments to complete, and I know it's greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team, GELN PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That concludes today's session, and good morning.