Geiger Counter (LSE:GCL) — Investor Presentation

0:01 Good afternoon, and welcome to the GEIGER COUNTER LIMITED Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged, and they can be submitted at any time using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Just simply type in your questions and press send. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And I would now like to hand you over to the management team, Diana Craig. Good afternoon.

0:26 Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us today to talk about the GEIGER COUNTER Investment Trust. We'll start with a a bit of a background on TEAM. So we've specialized in resource sectors for a very long time. We joined Manulife about twelve years ago to create a global natural resources team. I manage mining and materials related strategies, and my colleague, Craig Bethune, focuses on energy. So together, we manage about 2,000,000,000 US dollars in assets under management. So I've spent almost four decades focused on mining equities through many economic cycles on both the buy side and the sell side. And just a fun fact, the first ever agri research report that I worked on in the nineteen nineties was for the IPO of Canadian uranium producer Cameco as it transitioned from a ground corporation to a public company.

1:24 So Craig will add some value from an energy and utilities perspective, and I'll just pass it over to him now to talk about himself and the broader team. Yep. Thanks, Diana. As Diana mentioned, we've worked together for a long time, so just about twenty years directly, even even longer indirectly. And as Diana pointed out, my background is energy, and I think of energy broadly. So it's not just oil and gas. For us, we've been investing in renewables, so wind, solar, nuclear would be part of that, and utilities, and electrification broadly because we feel there's lots of opportunities across the whole spectrum of energy, and it's not just simply oil and gas.

2:12 Focus mainly on energy, but I have a broad background. I have helped run broad based mandates in the past. And as well, I've actually worked on the sell side and in industry as well, but we won't spend too much time, but, really enjoy the space overall. We'll go right on to the next slide to give you a broader sense of the

2:35 team. Across the top, you've heard about myself and Diana. We're also joined by Olivia Shamey. She's a recent addition, and we had the opportunity to work with her on a rotation basis, and we really liked her. So... And she was keen to join the team, so we've added her more recently. And then Arthur or AJ, we call him, he's our portfolio specialist, and he's actually running the bus today helping us make sure everything stays on track. I'll focus on the middle here. It's really just all of the talent available within Manulife to... That we can draw draw from and interact on a regular basis. So these are investors or portfolio managers in the middle who invest in resource equities.

3:21 That could be equities, fixed income, prefs. And the other thing that's interesting, I think, from your perspectives is just the considerable amount of experience across the team, and we interact with them broadly on a daily basis. And then dropping below at the bottom of the screen, here, it it talks about the masked team. And what they are is, the asset allocation team. And then when you dive in, they actually do some commodity research as well as macro research. So, you know, for example, interest rates and where they where they think we are in the economic cycle. So we're able to draw from them to help position our funds through the different economic cycles, and we've managed resource funds over a very long period of time.

4:08 So I just wanted to give you a quick highlight of the team because we're new, but we'll get right back to Diana talking about the proposition for uranium. So as many of you likely already know, the GEIGER COUNTER, trust offers a unique proposition and that it focuses on uranium equities. So the holdings tend to be more small to mid cap in size. There's not a lot of large publicly traded names, but really the smaller names offer leverage to the uranium price, particularly as they come into production around the same time as the supply gap starts to widen. A lot of the new supply comes from North America with a particular focus on the Canadian Athabasca Basin, which is in Northern Saskatchewan.

4:55 And there there... The area hosts some of the largest high grade uranium deposits in the world. Just a little bit on performance in the bottom corner. Short term has been more difficult, which is a little bit thematic in nature with less contracting, global uncertainty and volatility around AI. But over the long term, the fund has posted some really great returns. We think there could be further potential if we look at fundamentals of the uranium market forward. So on the next slide, you know, there are a few themes or areas of focus that we think drive future growth. So we'll talk about three of them here. The first is energy security. So the conflict in The Middle East has obviously caused a lot of disruption in the world, which has pushed countries like China to accelerate development of alternative sources of energy, which they've kind of been doing for a while now.

5:47 So China, in particular, is looking to reduce its heavy reliance on oil and gas imports to focus more on... In an electricity intensive economic model. So their five year plan is to have nuclear and other non fossil fuel based energy sources generate half of the country's electricity needs by 2030. And then our second point, demand for electricity has been growing. An interesting statistic supporting this point is that in 2024, global electricity demand growth actually surpassed growth in global GDP for the first time in three decades, whereas historically, it closely tracked economic expansion. And this is expected to continue over the next few years. No surprise, electrification and AR are big drivers of this demand growth.

6:39 And then our third point, although uranium is part of the solution, the industry itself has had to deal with issues over the past several years, including underinvestment, particularly after the Fukushima disaster as well as operational challenges at a lot of the mines. So now we'll go into a little bit more detail on each of these themes. So just going back to that first theme regarding energy security and the need for alternative sources, China has been leading the pack in terms of growing their nuclear fleets. The Chinese state council alone has approved the construction of at least 10 reactors a year since 2022. But it's not just China. It's a global trend. So far, 30 countries have signed the declaration to triple nuclear energy, and that was first launched at the COP twenty eight UN Climate Change Conference in 2023.

7:31 And through this pledge, these countries do exactly what it's called, increase installed nuclear capacity by at least three times by 2050. And then another more recent example is North America. Just a few weeks ago, The US and Canada announced a joint effort to support the nuclear fuel chain on The US side. This includes a $17,500,000,000 DOE loan program to support reactor construction. And from Canada, it's a commitment commitment to double uranium exports over the next ten years. And then the chart on the right shows the potential growth in number of reactors being built, planned, proposed, which as you can see is really quite significant. This growth stems from a need for clean energy sources, as we said, but that's compounded by a rising need for power, which is our second theme on the next slide.

8:27 So with EV adoption and AI related power demand growing globally in addition to other drivers, which are kind of listed there on the chart on the left, can see underneath, countries are turning to nuclear to fill a gap in power needs while at the same time providing a cleaner, reliable source of domestic energy. And then if you look at the chart on the right, China stands out among major nuclear markets with nuclear power accounting for only 5% of its electricity generation versus, for example, The US at approximately 28%. So just a few facts on China. During the past decade, China nearly doubled their nuclear capacity. They've been expanding at the fastest rate of any country so far this century, and now they are the largest generator of electricity in the world by far with more than double that of the second ranked country, which is The US. So as both China and The US, the two largest global economies continue to increase their nuclear base with rising electricity needs, think about that exponential demand from uranium that comes from it. So this leads to our third and final theme on which nuclear markets rely, the upcoming uranium supply demand imbalance.

9:39 So if you look at the chart on the right, the bars on the bottom, which is a little bit easier to understand, you can see we're currently in a supply deficit which is being filled by secondary supplies which are things like stockpile products. And then as we move into the start of the next decade, we go into some small surpluses as a lot of the new supply comes on from the Basket Basin and Namibia. And then just to point out, remember any disruptions or delays quickly can turn these surpluses into deficit. And then as existing mines in Canada and Kazakhstan start to deplete along with added demand that we've already talked about, we start to see really significant deficits coming towards the middle of the next decade. And then a lot of the other reasons for the forecast deficits are listed on the right. Things we've already...

10:28 On the left, I apologize. Things we've already mentioned like geopolitical conflict, changing government policy, geological issues. And then if we go to the next slide, there are a couple of other notable things that impact the market.

10:43 So the first is utility demand. Security of supply is really top priority to utilities, but that doesn't mean they're not price sensitive. So just like you and I, utilities, they see the supply coming on over the next two years. So there's... Some of them have been delayed contracting. As you can see at the middle chart, that bit of a gap there, and they hope that prices will come down. But, you know, remember, as I just mentioned, these are mines. There's generally always some kind of issue or delay in the build out or the ramp up. And so, this should happen. These surpluses can quickly turn to balances or deficit and then we can see prices tighten further. And then just a mention of

11:26 Sprott Physical Uranium Trust. They've had increased activity on the market earlier this year, which supported higher spot uranium prices. And we actually just listened to a call with them last week, and they talked about increasing activity again during what is a seasonally seasonally slow period, which is really now before the busy September as we go into the world Clear Association symposium in the fall. So... And then next, we'll just talk about how the GEIGER Trust benefits from these market fundamentals. So just really pointing out some of the supply expected to come on over the next few years. So whether it's brownfield restarts or new supply from the Athabasca Basin, the GEIGER Trust has exposure to many of these names. Paladin, your energy, they're expected to come on sooner. And then we have Denison, ISO, NextGen towards end of this decade and into the next decade.

12:25 And then, you know, as you... We go to the next slide, you can see that many of these are top holdings in the trust. Here, we list our top five banks, which together represent the bulk of the fund. And then on the right is geographic breakdown. You can see it's highly exposed to North America where a lot of that supply is coming on. And then by sector, you see we have a pretty good balance between producers and developers. So we can benefit from contracted prices today and then future prices. And then just one last slide to highlight our top holding, which is NextGen. NextGen has been a long time holding of this trust, but it's also been one in other manual life funds that we manage. So we know the company very well. It's one of the largest projects in the world at rates that are multiples of the global average.

13:17 They have relatively lower geopolitical risk being in Canada. They should be in production by the start of next decade. The trust has significant exposure to this name, partially because it's had really great returns over the past few years, but also because of the leverage as they move into production as we go forward. So that's pretty much it from us for the formal part of the presentation. Maybe now we'll go to Q and A. That's great, Dan and Craig. Thank you very much indeed for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab situated on the top right corner of your screen. While the company take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I would like to remind you that recording of this presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via our investor dashboard. And, Craig, at this point, if I may hand over to you to chair the q and a, read out the questions where appropriate, and I'll pick up from you at the end.

14:09 Holders. My name is Craig Cleland. I work for CQS in London. Been working for them for over ten years and work on the closed end investment funds. So today's questions, just going through them. Obviously, NextGen, Diana and Craig is one of the... Is the biggest holding. I mean, where do you see that holding long term for you? Do you think it's going to remain the largest portfolio constituent for quite some time? We know you like the stock. Do you think you... It's 20... It's over 20% of the portfolio. Does that concern you? Yeah. Sorry. I apologize. I can see that we're having audio issues. Can you hear me okay?

14:51 It's a bit tinny, Diana, but please discontinue. I'm sorry about this kind of Sorry about that. So I'll try to talk louder if that helps. So one of the things we're going to try to do is reduce risk in the portfolio and that might mean taking down some of the exposure to some of the bigger ones now because we're starting to see opportunity in other names. And one thing in particular that we've been thinking about is investing in uranium adjacent type names that benefit from the nuclear build out. So that can include utilities, that can include some of the base metals that go into

15:36 the construction of reactors. So that's kind of the way we'll reduce that risk. And I don't know if this is a good point. Maybe Greg can talk about some of those other ways that we're looking at reducing risk. Thanks, Diana. Yes. Craig B, Craig Bethune. One of the questions is related to that. What opportunities do you see outside the the kind of uranium value... The the wider value chain? Where do you see the opportunities?

16:04 And and also, would you invest directly in uranium, the actual physical? Yep. So I'll I'll leave the second question a little bit to Diana, but I think she answered it a little bit, but Yeah. We'll talk about it after. Yeah. So when I think about energy broadly before, I said I like to invest across the value chain. So for example, in energy, you can have upstream or downstream refiners because they don't all work at the same time. So from a fund perspective, you can enhance returns,

16:38 by moving into areas that don't all move at the same time. So Diana talked about utilities. You know, these are companies that are using the nuclear, inputs really to create power. And I think what's unique around this this fund is you'd have the opportunity not just to invest in the, production of uranium, but the actual production of power, which as you saw from Diana's charts, there's tremendous demand. So utilities today can actually be one of the really strong growers in terms of earnings growth. They also move at a different part of the cycle. The fund does have some exposure today to, SMRs, but I think you'd think about broadly SMRs as the potential addition to the fund as well. And then, you know, there's companies that are constructing this nuclear power and all of the infrastructure around the electrification, which may be an opportunity as well for the for the fund. So I think I think you... I think it's unique in that you can really take advantage of all the parts of the supply chain of nuclear and,

17:46 you know, we'd like to do that. And I'll pass it back to Diana over the direct investment. Yeah. So I guess we do indirectly have some exposure to the commodity itself. We do have an investment in spot spot physical uranium crust, so we do it that way. We also have another name, Yellowcake that does the same thing. In terms of direct physical commodity exposure, that's like a that's a different game. There's a lot of costs associated with it. So I don't believe it's been done historically. And I don't see us doing that because we can do it through these other these other distant investments.

18:33 Okay. Thank you both. Dan, in your earlier discussion, you you you spoke about the The Gulf and the and the Iran US conflicts. We've seen we've seen the the oil and oil and gas prices rise, but uranium has actually fallen the other way. The actual physical prices over the last two or three months. Any reasons behind that? Why isn't uranium taking advantage of this because it's a very stable output? Yeah. So, I mean, that's that's a good question, So to speak... Because you just think of it as energy and you think it would rise with it, but there's actually no direct link between uranium and the conflict because uranium doesn't come from that region. The only thing we've seen more recently is there's a mine in Africa, Lotus Mine. They've had to suspend operation because they've had trouble getting sulfuric acid, which comes from the region.

19:25 But other than that, there's no real direct link. There's the impact is really long term. So what the conflict has done has raised the profile of nuclear as an alternative source. And as we see these nuclear build outs occur over the next few years, as we go into the 2030s, that's when we'll see the impact on uranium price as more uranium is being contracted. Understood. Thank you. Obviously, we we touched upon the market's being difficult. Is there anything that's really either outperformed or underperformed that surprised you in in the stocks in the last, say, year to date? Sorry. Sorry. I I... So I apologize. Sorry. The the actual underlying portfolio, is there anything that's disappointed you in that portfolio? They haven't performed well. They should be performing better.

20:13 Is there anything in the... I I... You know, it's it's it's been... This year has been difficult. They haven't performed as well as we would like to. But, you know, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of that is thematic. Right? Your name is moving with power and AI, so it's not really specific to a lot of the names. No. To see more contracting would be great, but that may take a while. Every... Like each one of the investments is different from a valuation perspective. They all imply a different uranium price and it has to do with where they are in the cycle of their development. It has to do with what kind of prices they've received for contracts.

20:59 But overall, if we look at that, they're probably trading at a little bit of a discount right now, close to fair value. So there hasn't been anything that's been super disappointing, but we really would like to see, hopefully, going into the second half, a little bit in the space as a whole. Okay. Thank you. Just just a kind of question on your experience, the pair of you. Obviously, you know, Canada very well-being based there. I mean, Australia is a big a big, area for uranium. Do you know many of the Australian names? Have you met the management, etcetera?

21:33 Yeah. So so, you know, one thing, you know, we didn't talk about here, but we talk about in a lot of our other presentations is how much time we spend meeting with management teams. So just on the strength of our experience and the strength of Manulife globally, we get companies in here all the time, every day. So we're constantly meeting with management teams and building strong relationships with them. And that's from all countries, including Australia. So with if Australian companies aren't coming through, we're having to do meetings either early in the morning or late at night, but that doesn't stop us. We've been talking to a lot of them. And we've really been spending a lot more time on the Australian names just to get just to better understand them.

22:21 But really, a lot of the Australian stuff is brownfield mines coming back, which are a little bit more difficult. There are a lot of older mines. So we've really been more focused on some of the newer supply, which is at the Basket Basin, as we mentioned, Africa, The

22:37 U. S. As well. Thank you. Can you comment about the gearing on the fund? It's currently about 12%, 13%. Do you think the... Is that a neutral level for you? Do you see that going up? We can go up to 20% as you know, or down to zero. Does that does that kind of 12, 13%, is that reflective of where you see the market? Yeah. I mean, we're we're... I think we're okay with that now as part of the whole risk reduction process we want to go through, maybe pull that back a little bit, but we do want to keep some gearing because as I mentioned a couple of times, going into the fall, we should start to see a lot more activity around the equities as we start to see brought come back into the market as we start to see hopefully contracting as a result of all these companies getting together there at the symposium.

23:34 So we do like to keep a bit of gearing from that perspective as we go through the fall. Thank you. A more kind of global picture question for the pair of you. Will the fund be managed differently in the future? It's obviously managed quite tightly for the last few years by by two other fund managers, who basically have set it up kind of mid and small cap. Is that something you like? Do you see that varying too much in the future?

24:01 Well, you know, probably not. I mean, they've obviously had some great returns. And, you know, a lot of those names that they own, we also own in many of our funds. So, you know, as I mentioned, we're super familiar with all of them. Probably not change it up a lot outside of adding some value, as we mentioned, through maybe some of the base metals as nuclear reactors start to be built and we see more demand for those. Copper, in particular, has been doing super well, and we see the fundamentals of copper going forward as having high potential. And then as Craig mentioned earlier, a little bit more on the utility side, nuclear build side. Greg, anything you want to add there just in terms of anything you've already said?

24:52 Yes. I think we're trying to stay true to the original creation of the fund with the focus on small to mid caps. It's really just around the edges taking advantage of areas that there's not exposure today. So we're stym... Trying to stay true, just trying to enhance it. Is there a danger you're going to kind of drift into the kind of AI kind of hubbub and furor, you know, AI just for background as as as as you you two will know, you know, AI was interesting for nuclear for for quite a while. It pushed the price up, you know, a few months ago on speculation that nuclear power would would drive data centers, etcetera. Where do you see that evolving?

25:34 I can start there. I mean, I would say, definitely, AI has had an influence on all power. Right? So if you go back to Diana's chart that showed demand growth for power, AI is definitely one of them, but I think energy security is another factor over time. I think people are trying to figure out, like, how are you gonna power all this AI and over what over what phase it happens. So the advantage of nuclear is its, baseload continuous. Right? But it's slower to build, so it takes some time. Whereas the AI companies are in a rush. So in some cases, they're starting... You know, they're looking long term for nuclear solutions, you've certainly seen some big contract announcements.

26:22 But near term, they'll also look at, you know, more traditional forms of power. So I think there's a transition over time that, you know, there's broad rush for electrification, but nuclear will become a more important part of it over time. And then, like, even if you look at the big big companies, they're trying to clean up their their footprints. And our consumers' analyst was pointing out just two weeks ago that, you know, Walmart was looking to secure contracts for nuclear power for for some of their power needs. So I think it's just like

26:56 a near term, short term, but over time, AI is a benefit to nuclear. Okay. Well, thank you. The the biggest company that most people will know is Cameco in the industry. I mean, you do have an exposure to Cameco at around 7% of the portfolio. That's a quite big underweighting in relation to Cameco's overall space. Is that something you're comfortable with? Well, yes. So I guess, you know, from the perspective of where it's trading now, Cameco has... It's not just the miner, own Questing House as well. So they're involved in the build of a lot of the nuclear or the technology to build a lot of the nuclear reactors.

27:40 So maybe it doesn't have as much leverage to the year end price as some of these smaller names as they go into production. But we do love Cameco, and I think it will always be like a base for holding in this fund. Thank you. I'll let you have a rest for thirty seconds. There's a question about does the company do share buybacks? I I can just respond to that to say, the company certainly does do. It's bought about 5% or 6% of its share capital in so far this calendar year, bought back a bit more than that last year. The year before was interesting. We actually issued shares. So the company has the ability to to issue shares if it trades at a premium. And then when, GEIGER and nuclear got very hot about two years ago, we were in the phase of issuing shares, the board feel that it's right to try and keep the the discount level, you know, reasonably con... Constrained and controlled by by using buybacks from time to time.

28:39 What about uranium royalty companies? Is that something you've looked at? Yes. And there are some in the fund as well. Those are interesting whether it's uranium or any other commodity, those are interesting names from a defensive position. So in periods where

29:03 price might not be moving as much, the commodity price, those royalties tend to outperform because as I mentioned, they're viewed as a more defensive play. So they always have that exposure to the assets and royalties move with the assets. So it doesn't matter what happened to the company, that royalty always exists and with the asset. So you're always getting that leverage to the price without as much operational risk. I mean, I don't wanna say no operational risk because there... You know, there's always a threat that a mine shuts down and then there's no royalty, but it's generally less risk than an operational mine. Thank you. You mentioned small modular reactors earlier on. What about other technology changes? You know, fusion's always a great one. And, any other step changes you see coming through for nuclear?

29:53 It's early days on fusion. So, ironically, we just had, we had a a colleague of ours who went to a a presentation by Ian and I who has a significant investment in one of the new fusion companies. I think it's early. It can be significant when it happens. It's hard to invest in it yet. There is one public fusion company that's just kinda... Actually, I think I think it's based out of BC. And I do have a meeting set up with them, so, good good question, Craig. So but, yeah, I think that's certainly a significant opportunity over time that, you know, we'll see how how it plays out, but it's been on the cusp for a number of years.

30:41 And then, you know, I think just, you know, broadly electrification as well is is something that's, you know, very attractive over time.

30:50 Okay. Thank you. There's been... I mean, we don't talk about the competition slightly, but there's been a couple of new uranium ETFs launched in the last year or so. Have you seen them, kind of make more interest? You're based in Canada. You must see the flows. Do you see people... More money going into into uranium ETFs? I mean, in general, investors look to ETFs or exposure to various different commodities. Yes. There are a couple more. I mean, at least in what I see, like direct equities seem to be of greater interest. But that's not... I mean, I don't I don't see what retail investors are doing just because we're more institutional in nature. But from my perspective, direct investment in equity seems to give a lot more leverage than like an ETF. So if we do I mean, we just we ran a quick comparison of the trust to some of the ETFs.

31:56 It does track pretty closely, but there are periods when the trust can outperform based on the investment in certain equities that we have. Yes. Because as a closed closed end fund, we can take a longer position. We don't have to worry too much of the liquidity, etcetera, and gearing as well. Question about rare earths. Are they connected to the... I mean, there are there rare earths that go into nuclear, or would you look at investing in those?

32:25 In... Sorry. So in which Rare earth. Rare earth companies. Is there anything kind of exotic that goes into the the nuclear mix that needs to be mined apart from, you know, Yellowcake itself? Oh, are you... Oh, sorry. I apologize. You're saying is there other is there other stuff coming along with uranium? Is that what you're thinking? Yeah. Kind of. But would you would you invest in something that goes into into the uranium power cycle that's not yellow cake? Is there anything else? Yeah. I mean I mean, so far, as Craig kind of mentioned, there are alternatives, but nothing's really proven yet. So, like, if you're thinking, like, thorium and there's other ways to get to nuclear, we're not quite there yet. Uranium is still, you know, the core feed for nuclear reactors.

33:11 Maybe in the future, as tech evolves, there could be other stuff. And as that stuff comes by our desk, we look at it, but there's never been anything that's very compelling yet. Okay. Anything new that's come along in the stock market on uranium that you've been buying or look to buy in the last three or four months? Any interesting IPOs, etcetera? So there have been... I mean, there's a there's a few different names that we've started to look at. There's some smaller names that we see see potential going forward that we're spending a little bit of time on. I will say this trust is pretty extensive in terms of having exposure to most of those new names, but there are some new ones that are coming up, that we are having a look at.

34:00 I don't know if I can mention names. So... Yeah. I I think you did mention this earlier, but just a question again about the mix of producers and preproducers in the portfolio. Where would you kind of see that? So so right now, it's pretty good. It's like it's it's half half, a little bit more leading towards the explorers, developers.

34:21 So the way I look at it or the way that we look at it is the producers provide that core base. So we have benefit from a revenue perspective from the uranium price today. And then with the Explorers, we have that potential as we move into supply gaps as those gaps widen and those companies start to produce and start contract, then we have that benefit of the higher prices as well. So the way it is today, it's a pretty good balance. Well, thank you. A question probably not for you two, but more for the company itself. And we can reply separately on this, but I... Basically, what, you know, the two managers that left in June left Manulife CQS in June.

35:08 What changes? What's happening because... As a result of that? I think on the portfolio level, I think Dan and Craig haven't changed that much as yet. They're they're, you know, they're meeting all the management companies. They're going through that in detail. The board itself has put out a statement to say that it's evaluating its next steps. They'll be looking at the overall, you know, support that Diana and Craig give and and the rest of of Manulife CQS. They're looking at fees and doing a strategic review. That's not been published yet. So, hopefully, the board will put something out in the next few weeks on that.

35:43 But the but the the actual company has a notice period, which has been, set by the board, and that doesn't run out till March 2027, for CQS to manage it. So the board have some time to to to think about what they do... What they want to do. So we'll see what happens on that in that space as it as it comes along. I'm not sure. I've not heard of this company, Diana Alligator Energy or Craig Liner. Have you heard of that one? It's an Australian Australian miner. Yes. And I'm not sure how much I can say in terms of portfolio holdings, but we are familiar with it. It's got some unique export license set up, apparently. Yeah. Yes. So, we do have we do have some exposure to it as well.

36:29 Yeah. Mhmm. Okay. I think that's all of the questions that we covered today. Alex, can we hand back to you just to kind of do a wrap and Of course. Thank you very much, Craig and Diana, for addressing those questions for investors today. Before we direct investors to provide you with a feedback, which is important to yourself and the company, could I please just ask you for a few closing comments? Sure. So just to sum up, and I know we've said this a few times already, but we really do think there's lots of opportunity to come in the future as we start to see that supply gap really widen out and as the world increases their dependency on nuclear. We think GEIGER offers exposure to this through traditional uranium equities.

37:18 And then as we talk about over time, we can expand that exposure across the fuel chain by adding a little more in what we call uranium adjacent power type opportunities like utilities, other commodities that benefit from the growth in power demand and the build out. So I mean, thank you everybody for joining. We really appreciate it and we hope this was helpful. If there's any questions, please reach out. That's great. Diana, Craig, thank you once again for updating investors today. Expectations. On behalf of the management team, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all.