Atalaya Mining Copper (LSE:ATYM) — 2022 Annual Results

0:00 Good afternoon, and welcome to the ATALAYA Mining PLC twenty twenty two Annual Results Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it is appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I would

0:30 like to submit the following poll. I would now like to hand you over to CEO, Alberto La Vandera. Good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon. Thanks everybody for taking the time to be with us. Going to go through the presentation just reviewing the results of last year, especially the last quarter. It's been a quite challenging year, but we look forward to have a much better year this year. With me, while you read these forward looking statements, I have Cesar Sanchez that can probably answer some questions if they come in relation to numbers that are not shown in the presentation.

1:19 And I'll go directly to the presentation itself, trying to follow what we have been doing. And if possible, I will and we have time, I will reply to as usual to any and all of the questions. To summarize, and I don't want to be reading the whole thing, but and you have it you have probably have seen the presentation, but we produce around 52,000 tonnes of copper with cash costs all in $3.37. Remember that always post all in costs to give a realistic view of the reality of the company. These costs were higher, higher due to high inflation, as you all know, lower production during Q1 and higher electricity prices.

2:13 Q4 was much better. Production itself was quite good all over the year, quite normal, except this small hiccup in the third quarter in the first quarter, which was due to a strike in the Spanish transport system. Company, despite the challenges, generated an EBITDA of €55,000,000

2:34 This is substantially lower than previous year and a big amount of that was due to €64,000,000 extra costs of electricity and of course lower copper prices in relation to the previous year. We did invest in Helix. We started investing in Helix. We started investing in a solar plant using loans from local banks. But we ended up having a quite neat balance sheet with a net cash position of $53,000,000 for our second consecutive year. And we were ready to pay we paid a small dividend even with difficulties in September.

3:22 And we plan to pay a small dividend also that has been decided by the Board. Well, it needs to be approved by the shareholders later this year. Liquidity has improved. The company is much better positioned. We've completed the Astral integration and we streamlined the shareholder register with additional shareholders, having only one large shareholder right now in our our register. So it has been a quite a good year overall. Besides that, we have been continuing to work with our expansion projects, our growth projects, both Rio Tinto and our satellites.

4:17 Actually, we announced the results of the PA, and I will speak about that later last month, in the satellites around Rio Tinto. And of course, we changed a little bit our board, which is now composed by only one shareholder representing a large shareholder, one board member, I mean. And the rest, including me, are independent Board members. Of course, I'm part of the management. But other than that, I would say, it's one of the most independent Board that you can find in the industry. Looking at what we did the last quarter. Last quarter finally was a good quarter, nonevent. Production wise, the plant treated the tons as per design, which meant that we treated around 4,000,000 tonnes during the quarter, which is equivalent to around 16,000,000 tonnes per year, which is higher than the design rate of 15,000,000 tonnes per year, with good recoveries, 6,200,000, which is slightly lower than our previous year, but very well within the last few quarters.

5:37 And the only small weak point was the, as I said, the first quarter where we didn't produce as much as we wanted due to a strike in Spanish system. Looking at the financials, sales were back to normal with more production and slightly better copper grades. And since the electricity prices went were better, not as bad as the previous three quarters, we generated a positive EBITDA back from negative EBITDA position in the third quarter. And our net cash position remained strong, besides the fact that we were investing in lots of initiatives as well Helix and the solar plant and few other things in Agriotinto.

6:28 The balance sheet, as I said, remained strong. And I think the key point here to highlight is at the end of the year, had a working capital of €84,000,000 slightly lower than previous year, but still very strong, very strong in spite of the high energy prices, higher operating costs in general, higher inflation and the investments that we have been doing, which accounted to around EUR 53,000,000 during the year.

7:04 Inflation was the key point. I spoke about this several times. Inflation was the key point. And you can see that the key components of our costs operating costs are explosives, diesel tires, electricity, steel bolts and lime. And compared to what we had in 2020 and 2021, which is referenced with 100, you will see that explosives basically doubled, the diesel more than doubled, the tires 50% higher, steel balls 50% higher, lime almost doubled. But electricity, the last the first part of the year was multiplied basically by four and by five. Anyway, the good news here is the future.

7:50 The future is that electricity we have seen electricity going down, as it's shown in the bottom part of the graph steadily. And the January 1 has been almost as normal as previous years. And we have also seen, not really reflected yet, our decrease in steel balls and lime, in diesel and in explosives. And it looks like this decrease is going to continue because the prices of explosives and lime are linked with the price of gas. And the price of gas, I'm going to advance a little bit speak about it a little bit later, has been going down substantially.

8:41 One of the things we have started to do this quarter and we will continue doing so is start to break down a little bit our operating cost to give more clarity to the market. You will see that we divide our operating costs in site operating costs and in off-site operating costs. Site operating costs are normally linked to the cost per ton, I mean, the amount of material that you treat regardless of the grade. While off-site cost is basically what you have to use the concentrates, what you have to send outside. Those are the prices there, the costs there are related to the prices of treatment charges, transport charges, freight. And what you can observe from the graph that's shown is that actually the inflation was not that high in mining in spite of the doubling of explosives and 50% higher in diesel.

9:47 But where most of the increase came from, basically doubling our costs came from processing. This is due to the high price of lime and especially the price of electricity. Other than that, other things like health, safety, insurance, manpower, etcetera, etcetera. You can see that really the changes from 2021 to 2022 are nil. And actually, only in the last part of the year of 'twenty two was slightly higher. But basically, the cost of $0.54 per pound payable have remained the same. The same thing I would say with in general, with the all in sustaining cost when you start considering capitalized stripping, which has been quite constant and sustaining capital, has been quite constant in the year.

10:43 Normally, it relates to, of course, ongoing CapEx that we require at the plant, but also basically the maintenance of the tailings facility. As I said before, the key component of the cost here has been electricity. And it's important that we explain how it was, how it has been historically and how it looks like it's going to be. In the upper part of the slide that you have in the screen, you will see some green columns, which show what was the electricity market in Spain in the last few years. You will see in the left part that has been stable around EUR5070 per megawatt hour, which is EUR0.05, EUR0.07 per kilowatt hour. In 2021, we had a crisis started with the city crisis, but we had a fixed price coming from €20 so we didn't have any issue. But in 2022, we were exposed to the market and that shows that we went from electrical price for around €06 per pound, which is €60 to very high numbers.

11:47 Very high numbers that are shown in the lower part of the graphs, where you will see that our electricity prices have been all around EUR $2.50 to EUR 300 per megawatt hour. That means five times higher than it used to be. Okay, that's thanks thanks God, situation in Q4 was a little bit better, as you can see in the lower graph. And in January and February and so far in March, slightly better even than in Q4. Still not high, not as low as it used to be, but I would say much better due to the high intensity of the wind, solar and in some cases hydraulic. But the most important thing here is that, as some of you know, we signed a long term agreement for ten years that kicked off in 2023 in January at a long term price of around €54 per megawatt hour, flat for around one third of our consumption.

12:46 So this has an incredible effect of lowering our future electrical costs. And together with a solar plant that will kick in next year, basically, we will have covered about one about half of our electricity costs. What about the other half? Well, the other half is related to the price of gas. Spain has a distribution electricity with a mix of nuclear, hydraulic, water, but the marginal cost producer is the gas system, the combined cycles.

13:31 And the price of electricity is normal is like two times multiplied by the price of gas plus some CO2 adjustment. And one of the things you can see in this graph shown in screen right now is that the price of gas that we are enjoying now around a little bit less than €50 per hour is roughly the same price that we had in summer last year sorry, summer twenty twenty one, which is almost six times less than what we had in the peak of August 2022.

14:09 If you remember what happened in August is that there was the war of Ukraine, the blowing of the pipes coming from Russia and the Baltic, plus the extraordinary heat wave all over Europe and specifically in Spain that pushed the prices of gas quite a lot. Two things are different this year. First is that we have this power purchase agreements and some fixed rates. So we will not be so much affected to the changes. And second is that Europe is prepared with LNG, Spain consumes LNG. And it looks like this year those big sparks are not going to be not going to happen this year so far. Going to what happened in last year, why it's not going to be repeated, you can see in the upper part of the graph that about the increase in prices of electricity created a huge increase of almost 250% on the cost of electricity. So we went from having less than $0.2 per pound cost of electricity to going to almost $1 per pound.

15:27 What's the future that's past? The future is that in the lower graph, you will see that in orange, orange will be the average price that we will be getting with our PPA and our solar compared to the price of electricity in the market. What does it mean? That if we didn't have this agreement, we will be having at, let's say, 150 per megawatt hour, we'll be having $0.5 pound copper. The reality is we'll have a little bit about half of that. So, in summary, I think we are quite well prepared for this year and especially for future years.

16:22 What are we looking for 2023? Well, we hope to have a year of production similar to previous years without this total we had in March. Cash costs and all in costs, we have guided between 3,000,000 and $320,000,000 which is slightly lower than previous year, but higher than the other years. And the only reason here is that we don't know what's the electricity price going to be. So we have assumed, I would say, higher prices, but lower than previous years. So

17:00 we will be spending around EUR10 million in exploration. If needed, this something that we can always reduce if needed. And we will be treating around 15,500,000 tonnes of ore from the plant with a recovery we expect in range of 84,000,086 tonnes. Basically, we expect it to be a non event year. Several important initiatives that we have to do this year is finally construct this 50 megawatt solar plant, which we will start seeing activities in the ground in April and should be ready by the end of the year. We have had some delays with civils, with supply of materials, but finally, things are moving.

17:49 And we're also moving, as you can see in the slides in the screen now, with the construction of the Helix installation, which is progressing well and we believe that we will be able to start commissioning at least partially by mid year. Also, again, this installation has suffered some setbacks, some delays due to the supply chain and due to being something that's quite new and engineering in these things is never something off the shelf.

18:22 We will continue exploring in Massa Del Verde in Osa Morena, which is just north of Rio Tinto and Rio Tinto East. We have a budget of $10,000,000 which is a significant budget for a company of our size. And right now, as we speak, we have three rigs going on in the area around Maceo Del Verde, one rig in the area of Ocho Morena and we are waiting to start drilling just after Easter in Rio Tinto East with a new rig, just testing some anomalies. So it's going to be a quite a busy year. I would say that the most important development this quarter has been the growth plan of this company. This company is not only Rio Tinto. We have been working now for eight years at Rio Tinto, but we have a huge exploration ground just around Rio Tinto and also in the North called Osa Morena and in Toro in Galicia in the North, all copper.

19:18 So looking at Rio Tinto, we believe we have quite a different

19:25 advantage, I would say, compared to others, other new projects. You all know that the new copper is needed. New copper is needed in the world. And one of the things that we have versus other projects is that we have this huge infrastructure advantage. Most of these projects that are going to be needed for the decarbonization of the world will require labor camps, fly in, fly out, desalination, water pipelines, smelters. Well, we have our own smelter, we have ports, we have transmission lines. We don't need camps because we have villages around our installations. This is an incredibly huge advantage.

20:05 What we plan to do with this installation? We are doing the same business model that Matze is doing and it's quite common in other places, in other districts, where you have a centralized installation, where we have our plant and where we track the ore from the existing deposits to the single plant. This is what Mazza is doing with three deposits on the ground feeding a single plant. In yellow, you will see the volcanic rocks that form the BMS systems at the Parrot Belt. Further to the west, you have the name is Corvo And Almina Mine. And then in the page we have, we have other mines like Las Cruces, Darcy's, Valverde, all these dots are known sulfide deposits. So very prolific area.

20:56 But looking at what we have specifically, as you will see in the background of the picture a big pit. That pit showing white and black is the existing current pit. With that one, we would have a life of around ten years. So we said, well, we have all the resources drilled, let's call San Antonio underground, high grade, just continuing in the far end of the picture, which is east. And in the front part of the picture, which is west, we have the San Dionisio, which is the remnant of an old deposit that was mined in the past by Rio Tinto, where mining has started over one hundred and fifty years ago. And at the left, we have the plant with a huge capacity.

21:42 So we thought to we decided to put a plan together. We had announced already these resources with the forty three-one hundred one, but we decided to put a plan together where we could mine three of these deposits simultaneously and see how we can benefit over this. So we asked our company to protect to put a picture together, which if you look at the slide is shown in light green is basically the current pit and shown in dark colors and in gray would be the additional other deposits. So as you can see in the

22:21 bottom part of the slide, the first four years we only mined copper only, very simple. And in the starting in 2017, so it's the fifth column in the lower part of the graph, start adding zinc also, which means that we'll have to at that time in '26, we'll have to have a zinc circuit or something to treat that zinc, which is higher rate. Well, with that plan, our equivalent production profile will go will be around the 55,000 to 60,000 tons of copper in the next four years. And this is an external plan. Of course, we will try to put this normalized so that in '24, you

23:00 don't see a slight reduction, so have it very normal. And in 2027, as soon as we start getting on the zinc, we start seeing higher production profiles, which takes us well over 100,000 tons of copper equivalent. These numbers give exceptional high returns. And the simple reason of this is that we have a plant already and so our investments are minimum. If we use the current copper price, which is around $4 per pound, the cash flows undiscounted after tax will be around $3,000,000,000 Remember, our market cap right now is around not even 600,000,000 Discounted at 8%, which are kind of a standard, we will get our net present value discounted at EUR 1,500,000,000, again, about three times our current market cap. And I would like to highlight that this does not include any addition of the satellites of Valverde or Rio Tinto East or Toro. It means assuming that we didn't find any singleton in the whole next fifteen years.

24:15 This would be a model of our production profile and cash flow generation after tax.

24:21 Very significant and comparable with this large porphyry deposits around that around the world. This comes with some CapEx, which we highlight in lots of detail, which is really back ended. And almost of this CapEx comes from the development of the underground deposits and also from adding a plant expansion or sync line in three years' time. Other than that, it's basically more space for tailings, which is something that we'll do anyway.

25:01 Of course, these numbers of CapEx are included in the they will be financed from the cash flow and they are included in the numbers I just mentioned before. So this will also come with two consequences of reduction of costs. Since you start putting in higher grade costs, higher grade material, their costs are reduced. So the cash costs will go down substantially around $0.80 once we get into this polymetallic area, which means two things. One is higher production and lower operating costs, which means higher cash flow.

25:46 So a very promising PA, which even at $350 per pound copper seen in the screen, it still has a net present value of EUR 1,300,000,000 discounted 8% after tax, including without discounting over EUR 2,000,000,000 cash flows. Of course, using that $4 per pound, these numbers increase to the prices to the numbers I gave before. We have to say that, of course, we believe in the next fifteen years, we will have years where we will see much higher copper prices on $4 because the industry and the whole demand of copper requires this higher metal prices.

26:35 So very encouraging future. A total not much to say that we continue to permit and to progress this the permitting of this installation. For those of you who are new, this is a brownfield project that has a current quarry on-site, where we had already a negative environmental impact declaration. But

26:59 this negative environmental impact permit three years ago was not due to any environmental grounds that the project has. It was due to the former legacy water issues of the project. This project had stopped in 1987, back in 1987, 1988. So one of the things we agreed with the government of Galicia was to install a water treatment plant that you can see in the pictures, where water comes in brown with some acid formation with iron and comes out clean in the bottom part. As a result of that, now the rivers are clean, so nobody can accuse us of not being able to fix the installation to fix this current situation.

27:46 We have had lots of visitors and people demonstrating the want to mine training courses for operators being publicized in newspapers. So we believe we are in the right track and permitting takes time, but we believe it's now is the moment. With all this, where do we see ATALAYA? Well, if we were to stay as we are, we will be in the range of 5,000 tons of copper, which is, by the way, is four times more than we had five three times more than we have when we started. We will be adding over to 90,000 tons of copper with the that's only copper with the PA numbers that we just mentioned before, that's without zinc.

28:39 And when we add total, we will be well over 120,000 tonnes of copper, which is a very significant growth for a company of our size. And this can happen in as soon as three years from now, if we get the permits of total this year. So in summary, lots of things going on, very busy as usual, solar plant going on, helix going on, San Dionisio will be doing lots of work after the PA. Toro we continue permitting, Macea Alverde is still early days exploration, but we continue with the permitting and we believe we are going to get the permits to mine very soon. Also, we're in a whole new ground where we will be air inspirational at this stage, although we already have some resources.

29:28 So I think that's a summary and I would like to leave about half an hour for questions and we have lots of questions. Alberto, thank you very much indeed for your presentation this afternoon. Ladies and gentlemen, please continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab situated on the top right corner of your screen. While the company take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I would like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via investor dashboard. I'm Alberto Cesar. As you can see, we have received a number of questions throughout today's presentation, and thank you to all investors for submitting their questions. Alberto, if I may hand back to you for the Q and A and ask you to read out the questions and give responses where appropriate to do so, and I'll pick up from you at the end. Thank you. Okay.

30:17 Excellent. Yes. So I have lots of questions that we have received sent by email or before presentation. So let me read all of them and try respond to all of them. Some of them are kind of repeated, but no problem. First one, in terms of total, how have your discussions with authorities progressed during 2023? I suppose it's also 2022. Further, is it still news, but how do you think copper being the clearest of the commodity in Europe can assist, if at all, given the key impediment of the project was is on environmental grounds? Well, interesting couple of questions here. First of all, let me start by the end. The project never had a problem with the environment. Actually, this is a brownfield area with lots of eucalyptus, where our quarry is still active and is ongoing. So there is an open pit there.

31:12 And the province to give us a negative permit three years ago was not based on special flower, special affection to the environment or whatever. It was due to two things. It was more political than anything. It was the noise created by anti mining groups when the tailings of the Brubadinho Dam in Brazil broke and they created a wave of the of mud flowing down and killing lots of people. And second is the the fact that there were acid waters from the legacy mine, and they were saying, if this what what people did in the past, you are going to do same, but much larger. To address both, we said two things, okay.

31:59 The thing of the past was due that they didn't use plastic lining and didn't do the right things. And we addressed those using the water treatment plant. The issue with the tailings itself, we have presented a project, which is basically without any water on top of the tailings. So if there's no water, it cannot be this break. Besides the fact that the tailings itself is designed in a different way. Our discussions have been continuous with the government, the regional government and all the authorities to get the water permits, to get the to make sure that the project we were presenting was correct. And all of this has been done in hand. Another thing they recommend us to do is to fix the social license because due to the lies that were transmitted by the anti mining groups, the population was believing we're going to be creating a moon's landscape and throwing everything to the river, which I don't know why we would do it.

33:03 And we have done that with signing lots of agreements with stakeholders, regional stakeholders, fishermen, river, etcetera, etcetera. So all of them has been lots of work in the background. And we believe we're in the right path or so, it looks like from all the feedback we are getting. Excuse me, it was a little bit long, but I think it's very important. What are the next steps now that you have completed the PA? Will you start feasibility study and any impairments required? Well, lots of work ahead of the PA. The PA is basically a guideline, it's a route, but we will be doing more than a feasibility study itself, basically doing the tail engineering for the plant design. So all those numbers that were part of the PEA have a backing that is realistic instead of a more general review.

34:15 We will be doing detailed designs of the zinc circuit and few others and detailed mine planning of the underground mine. The open pit is quite clear. Permits we will require is additional space for tailings and disturbance of land, which we believe we will get very soon because we have started with this well ahead of all this. In Spain, once you have that and when you have certain disturbance of land and then the changes within, let's say, within the broader permit are considered non material and are dealt with in a year by year basis. So the permits required to start mining in Indonesia, for example, very likely we will get them later this year or even the first quarter no, later in the year. And the tailings for additional space in tailings probably in April or very soon.

35:21 Next question is, with the solar plant and potential wind turbines, would ATALAYA get into the power business life of the mine? Has any more work, future planning been done on this, feasibility study plan it? Well, not really in power business. This is for self consumption that has certain advantages. Our goal is to get to around 50% of our self consumption, which has the advantage of not having to pay the taxes and the connection to the grid. So it's more economic than selling the electricity. Obviously, if you have a consumption like we do have. We have been doing lots of work and feasibility study of this of the wind is about to be completed after having six months of continuous measurements with a big tower and also twenty years of data from measurements.

36:21 So far, the preliminary numbers show that the wind four wind turbines of around five megawatts each would provide us with around 15% of our needs according to the prevailing winds. And the price that we can get there based on the capital costs is very competitive, better than connecting with the grid, even with the long term prices that are seen in Spain around EUR 40,000,000 to EUR 50,000,000. So we would get better prices than connecting with the grid at EUR 40,000,000 to 50,000,000. Our plan is to probably get this final study to the Board in the next meeting.

37:13 And the next question is on the PA. The net present values look too high compared to our market value. Will values decrease once the feasibility study is finished? Well, no, that's the reality. That's the numbers. Normally, companies trade at around 0.7% of the net asset value, 0.6%. We are trading we believe we are trading at 0.3% or 0.20 which is a fact. So I think it's a matter of catching up when people start seeing that we continue to deliver like we have done in the past. The feasibility studies or the numbers will just optimize the current plans. Hope that the studies show that it's better, actually better than the PA by advancing the production of higher grades and reducing the capital costs.

38:06 By the way, we have not assumed the use of Elix in this system, which could provide an additional advantage. But we have been very conservative in the PA by assuming differential flotation, which is something that we know it works. ESG, do you know where ATALAYA scores relative to peers? I don't have the data here in front of me, but maybe Cesar, do you have the numbers? Yes. Yes. We we do know how how we're doing with according to COPPER. So we according to system analytics, we basically issue a report on ATALAYA, not a long time ago. It was February 2023.

38:52 We are very close to come out and better companies like JR Boys Global or Saltclub or Saltclub. But I think the important here is not where we announce or where we get into. I think there is a significant improvement. So taking against just analytics, previous report that they rated us at, 58.8, and and we are now in the range of thirty thirty nine point two, which is a significant improvement from from the last from the previous report. And and I think that we recently report the also approved the sustainability report for 2022, which means a significant improvement on the quality and the disclosure that we do on on all ESG matters, and and I think that will, give a significant improvement to our rating. So we we continue having these discussions with the two major rating agency like MC CI and Systematic, and I think that will get to a better rating to which will, again, compare to better companies that are doing better disclosure on sustainability.

40:02 The next question is also related to ESG and maybe you can also ask answer, Thesser, I'm going to read it. Carbon footprint, carbon credits. With solar coming online, would this generate carbon credits, potential source source revenue? Yeah. Well, we we so as a company, we don't we don't have many covered emissions to to the to to the so we we we don't have as an industry other than the vehicle that operate in our mind. With with that in mind, we are not really to the credit on market at this time. I mean, we will look at any other revenues alternatives, but I can see that as Albert as Alberto mentioned, so when we have the solar plant, which is significant big, but we will be using the full capacity of the plant to to be used in our plan. So I'm not expecting to have any sort of accident on that on the capacity of the plan. So, yes, this is something that we would look at it. We haven't looked at it so far, but I'm not expecting a significant amount of revenue there if if it's something.

41:18 Thank you, Fraser. Next question is regarding acquisitions. Last time, you mentioned prices. You mentioned prices were too expensive, and it made no sense. Anything changed? Well, we continue to look at things and it's too early to say. We continue to look at several opportunities, but not much to comment here. If we do anything, it will be that it makes sense and that can create value, because we have enough in our plate to grow without needing to acquire. But of course, we are quite opportunistic in this sense. Next question is, are you still planning to move into the London to the main market? Yes, although we have come with some difficulties due to Brexit, which maybe, Tessa, if you want, you can give some small summary.

42:15 But I mean, yes, we continue to to look to find ways to to get to the main market. Indeed. So the the the goal the main goal for ATALAYA is being listed in the premium market of the long run stock exchange, and and so we're getting ready to get there. We plan to do it two different step. So step one would be to move the company from Cyprus to The UK, and then step two, once we are in The UK, going to the premium listed, which obviously will have the possibility of being eligible when we have the size to be in the index on the FTSE index. But we found in this first step moving from The Cyprus to The UK some tax issues, mainly driven as a result of them, The UK not being in the European Union anymore.

43:05 And and this is something that is slightly changing the plan. But the plans in order to get to the same mode, which is going to the premium So some of the work or many of the work that we've been doing for the last year or year and a half will continue to be in order to get to the main board or to be listed main board. And this is something all the improvement that we have done on the corporate governance with the sustainability committee, and, you we're now looking at The UK take on the codes. I'm also looking keeping an eye on The UK corporate governance code just to ensure that we'll fulfill all the requirements go to the main market. This is something that is into an old plan, and we'll get there. We just need to slightly change the plan as a result that we're now moving to The UK. Yeah. But still, as a main goal of the company.

43:53 Thank you, Cesar. Another question is, do you have any contingency plans if the banking crisis continues to grow? Well, first, expect it not to grow much. But second is, I think the banking crisis is probably, unless it goes global, I'm not so sure if it will affect the copper demand. The copper demand now is linked to real demand from especially CO2 fights electrification globally, not only in China, but worldwide. For example, I read this morning that China had installed in China this year, electrical panels, solar panels equivalent to the rest of the world. So they're still and it's growing big time.

44:48 The bank crisis of two thousand and eight, which is the one that was probably the deepest part was did also affect the copper. But if you remember, thousand and nine was extreme in rebound. Actually, prices peaked in 2009 and 2010. If it happens this year, I think that will happen. It will be the same result. The demand is there and there's no supply. So the way we prepare with this is stick with our long term plan, be tight with our expenditures. And obviously, if there was a huge decline in copper prices, we'll probably have to slow down in contingent expenditures like exploration and maybe a few others, but not much. We're a very slim company.

45:43 Another question is, can the solar plant be expanded beyond 50 megawatts? And what's the update of wind turbines? You just mentioned the update of wind turbines, finalizing the final economic studies. We already have data. And the solar plant cannot be expanded beyond 50 without making lots of modifications and also because you are not allowed to sell to the grid and what we can absorb is 50 megawatts. So I think this is our limit at this stage. It doesn't mean that the long term, we cannot use our existing land to install a much larger solar plant, I mean, huge solar plant, which actually we are looking at, but that's a different story. It would be for us a business itself.

46:33 Next question also related to power. Is power prices seem to much better in Europe now? Will you consider being more power hedging more power in another long term contract? Yes, we would. We continue to watch the long term prices. Right now, they're around €60 megawatt hour. We signed for lower than that. So if we can see the opportunity, we'll probably do it. In a certain part of our costs, because we believe that although the long term views of prices in Spain, everybody talks about 40s to 50s, at the end, we wouldn't care paying the high 50s, if it was needed, because it doesn't mean too much of a difference. But so far, the prices have not gone there yet.

47:22 Another question is, which exploration project has the most potential, Osa Moreno, Mass Alverde? Difficult to say. Osa Moreno is, I would say, more greenfield, very clean copper with gold, a huge belt, but early days. So you have to be careful because and slowly because it's basically discovery mode. I think the potential is very high, but it's longer term. Massa Valverde, it's existing an deposit where we are basically highlighting the high rates of this existing deposits. And around this Massa Valverde itself, we are finding several satellites, which we are drilling. So I would say shorter term is Massa Valverde, longer term Osho Marine.

48:11 Another question is, your recent work on ESG, have you started to see any positive feedback from investor community analysts given investment community? Given investment community is supposed to track companies with score highly, If not, will you make sure necessary tracking agencies are updated? Well, I think this has been explained by Faesal. Yes, we get in contact with the tracking agencies. We are doing much more than even people see. Very soon, I mean, weeks, we will be publishing then our next ESG report, which is even better than the previous one. And yes, we are receiving quite good feedback from the investor community because they see we are actually in the front of what's being done by companies and mining companies specifically.

49:04 Another question is, do you have a target date to be quoted in the main market? Is the market cap large enough? Maybe, Cesar, you can speak. I mean, I'll repeat the question. Do you have a target date that we quoted in the main market? And is the market cap large enough? By the way, I can send you the email the the telephone of of and and you can speak with him directly. But please, Yeah. So the the the the the target that we have in terms of timing was, as you you might know already, was early twenty twenty three. And as an assault of the issue, what we found on on the moving the company to The UK, it it's been a little bit delayed. But we continue having the idea of making that movement in 2023, but we obviously don't know what the step that we will be founding, you know, going to the main market.

50:00 I think the discussion with the bank is we can terminate the prospect. We pretty much get in already for before we took a to to do the prospectus, and the prospectus might take between three to six months. So I think this is something that is doable still in the 2023, but we just need to ensure that we have a good base and the company is is is domiciliated in the country that we need to be in order to be to the premium in the premium listing. So and then you you you're also asking about the the market cap. I think the company that the answer is yes. We have the, you know, a good size to go to the main market premium listed, but we might not be big enough to go to one of the index. So we might not get to FTSE three hundred fifty, for example, I think the last time that I saw I've seen the cut was around 800 and £150,000,000, so we are in the range of 500.

50:52 So we can be in the main market premium listed, but we might not be eligible, to be in the 50 index yet as a result of the markup. So yeah. So I I think that's that's a good progression. It's just waiting being in the premium listing, waiting to get the right size to get to the to the index. Okay. The next question is, is there any further liability to us? Or and if so, how is this case proceeding since the last update, please? No, there's no further liability with Aster. And the only thing we have done, and this we have I don't think we have even announced it, is to have an appeal to see if we can recover the cost because we believe the result of the of the last trial was was not fair.

51:52 And we were asked to pay interest well before well before they were due. So we have asked the court in an appeal to see if this cost could be reviewed and that's it. But no liability from our side. If anything, it will only be positive. The next question is well, this is some can I check if the solar plant is in your cost guidance for 2023? Yes, it's the capital cost is included. The operating cost for conservative reasons, I don't think we have put any savings in our cost guidance, because it will start in the last part of the fourth quarter.

52:42 And normally, it's winter time, we believe it's for conservative reasons, we don't we believe it's not going to be making any contribution this year. The next question is, what percent of our copper output can Helix be while the plant treat? Well, depends on the grade that we put in. Normally, will start with zinc and copper. If we start with zinc and copper, which will be extracting the zinc and maintaining the copper in concentrate, so this thing could treat half of only the plant that we have right now could treat easily our half of our concentrates or more with the current grades that we have.

53:28 The bottleneck is the amount the higher concentrates that you have sorry, the higher content of metal that you have. If we assume we have around 45% of zinc in it, could treat about half of it. The main target for Helix is to prove in a industrial base and then we'll just repeat in lines and be able to treat complicated concentrates that are having copper and zinc, which would give us around 15 to 20 points higher recovery, especially in the polymetallic materials, namely San Dionisio, San Antonio and Massimo Alburte. Let me see. Another one is please, one on cash cost. Taking into account electricity, 100 to 150 PPA, 54 to reach C1 to 83, we will be looking at very high inflation still for the remaining costs, right?

54:34 Well, I think not sure if that's the case. I mean, Yeah. So I I think the issue is is mainly on the effects, which have a massive impact. And just bear in mind that almost 95% of our cost base is euro denominated. So the issue with FX when reporting cash cost is just an important issue. But the the reality is when we budget 2023, we we we we use the forward curve, which at the time that we approved the budget was $1.10 US dollar per per per euro. And and and the FX rate that we have in '22 was much lower than that. If you take that into consideration, know, our cost, you have that significant gap between what we should be looking at, what we should have in in in if you compare it to the previous year. But to get into the inflation, other than electricity and DSL, which we don't know, we just made some estimations on on 2023, The remaining cost of the input, to the contrary, we are expecting to either stay where they are now or even reduce a bit in 2023.

55:49 But we're not assuming any sort of inflation significant inflation in any other item other than electricity and diesel? The question is actually the same along the same lines and makes a very good point, I have to say. We achieved $270,000,000 cash cost in Q4. Can you explain the bridge to $283,000,000 in cash costs guidance in 2023, also given that you should be achieving some tailwinds on your energy prices? And hence, you would have perhaps expect a lower cash cost for '23. I think it has been explained in the sense of the exchange rate. But I suppose that's the main reason. Otherwise, the point is very is very good.

56:39 Cesar? Yeah. Yes. It's comparing 2022 with with previous year. And I and I and I think that we sort of have in '22 to do some sort of inflation where for 2023, as I say, we're not assuming any additional inflation, but we're also assuming that the inflation that we experienced in '23 and '23 2022 in order to come back. So salaries increased by 5% as of an average. That salary of that 5% will stay in 2023. It won't increase, but, obviously, they're gonna come down to to, you know, to 5%. So yeah. So this is this is mainly that the inflation that we experienced in 2022 will remain in 2023, again, other than electricity on the other side.

57:27 The last question is how much of your energy requirements are now locked in at fixed price for 2023 and 2024? What price have you locked in? Well, we have actually locked in from 2023 onwards for ten years, so 2023 to '32, around 30% of our current needs. I think it's fixed bottom and the price we have locked in is €54 megawatt hour. Of course, on top of that, you have to add some taxes and some connections to the grid and so on, but basically comparing peers with peers with the plain consumption prices. In addition to that, starting, as I said before, in 2024, we will have our solar plant kicking in.

58:20 And based on the number of hours that we receive in this region, this solar plant will give us around 22% of our needs starting in 2024. And of course, the price that you have is basically zero, is your operating cost because we already have in the budget, in our balance sheet, the investment. If we took this solar plant and, let's say, sold it to our energy supplier and they charge us price a for that, we will be probably getting around 25 to €30 megawatt hour for this 20%.

59:06 So if you made an average between the 54 and this, let's say, euros 25, we'll be getting around €40 megawatt hour for forever, for around 50% of our needs. And just to and also if we got the wind, it would probably be able to add another 15% of our needs based on four towers. We could probably go for more, but it's a the study we're doing is more kind of prudent investment and something that we can afford. Well, I think that's all. I don't think I have any more questions. I think we have replied to all of each and all of them. Yes. That's great. Alberto Cesar, thank you for that. And I believe you have addressed all the questions that came in from investors today. And of course, the company will review all questions submitted today, and we will publish those responses on the Investor Meet company platform.

1:00:12 But perhaps before redirecting investors to provide you with a feedback, which I know is particularly important to you and the company, Alotto, could I please ask you for few closing comments, please? Thank you. No, I think thank you very much. Thank you very much for being here. I think the future of the company is great. We have had a difficult year, but we are are very well positioned for the future. And I just remind people that this company was supposed to be twelve years mining back in 2014. We have been already eight years, and we see ahead of us another fifteen without even considering the new projects in total Pasa Al Verde and any other discoveries. So I could see this company well over twenty years life, which is quite a lot considering where we came from.

1:01:14 So I think the future is great and thanks a lot for your continued support. It always helps us to keep pushing and working hard. Thanks a lot. Alberto, that's great. And Cesar as well, thank you once again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you will now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of ATALAYA MINING PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That concludes today's session. Good afternoon to you all. Thank you. Thanks, Howard.