Alfen (Euronext:ALFEN) Q3 2026 Earnings Call

0:00 Hello and welcome to the ALPHA 2026 third quarter results conference call hosted by Michael Colijn, CEO and Bart Meussen, Interim CFO. For the first part of this call, all participants will be in listen only mode and afterwards there will be a question and answer session. If you wish to ask a question, please press pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. I would now like to hand the call over to Michael Colijn. Mr. Colijn, please go ahead.

0:34 Thank you, Elba. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Alphen's 2026 Q3 earnings call. Thank you all for taking the time to join us. I'm Michael Colijn, CEO of Alphen, and I will be leading this trading update with you today. Joining me is Bart Meussen, our interim chief financial officer. Today's agenda is structured to give you a comprehensive view of developments during the third quarter of 2026. I'll begin with the highlights. We'll then dive into each of our three business lines. Bart will follow with our financials and we will conclude with our outlook before opening the floor for your questions during Q&A. Let's start with this quarter's highlights.

1:19 Revenue came in at 99.1 million. compared with 104 million in Q3 2025. The year on year movement is largely a function of phasing within energy storage systems and it was fully anticipated. The number that better reflects the underlying momentum of the business is our year to date revenue, which grew 14.3% to 360.6 million up from 315.6 million in the first nine months of 25. That is a solid result and gives us confidence in our full year position. Our group gross margin came in at 30.5 million or 30.8% of revenue compared with 29.9 million and 28.7% of revenue in Q3 2025.

2:09 Improvement in margin percentage was primarily driven by the release of project contingencies on the completion of large energy storage projects. Adjusted EBITDA was 4.0 million or 4% of revenue compared with 6.9 million and 6.7% of revenue in Q3 2025. Reflecting revenue phasing throughout the year and transformation efforts with a planned temporary increase in personnel expenses. I'm also happy to announce that we renewed our credit facility during the quarter with three years until October 2029 at the same terms with two one-year extension options. Bart will take you through the details of that later on.

2:55 Finally, and importantly, we are reiterating our full year 2026 guidance. With three quarters behind us, we expect revenue to come in within the upper half of our 435 to 475 million guidance range. Adjusted EBIT margin is expected to be in the lower half of the 4% to 7% range, and CAPEX will remain below 4% of revenue. At the end of October, Alphen hosted a conference with the title Generation Electric, an event bringing together more than 300 partners, industry experts and stakeholders. The event was held for the second consecutive year The program combined keynotes from industry experts on the developments shaping Europe's energy transition with showcasing Alphen current and future solutions across our business units.

3:51 It is a clear step in strengthening Alphen's presence in the market and reflects the sharper customer focus. Turning now to smart grid solutions which have delivered another strong quarter. Revenue came in at 54 million, up 10% compared to 49 million in Q3 2025. That growth was driven by two clear forces. Sustained high volume demand from Dutch grid operators compared to last year, and the continued momentum of our Finnish subsidiary, Alphen Elkamo, which recorded its highest quarterly revenue to date. In terms of revenue mix, 70% was generated by grid operators, and 30% by project sales. Operationally, we delivered 870 substations in the quarter, 621 in the Netherlands and 249 in Finland.

4:49 Adjusted gross margin came in at 23.7% compared with 25.9% in Q3 2025. The modest decrease reflects the higher share of grid operator products in the mix, which carry margins at the lower end of our range. This is within our expected gross margin range of 20 to 30%. Let me now turn to the market context for smart grid solutions. The picture remains balanced and unchanged from what we have shared throughout 2026. Regulation is moving in the right direction, while the requirements to scale continue to set the pace in the short term. On the one hand, the regulatory agenda moved forward again this quarter.

5:35 At EU level, member states agreed their position on the grids package aimed at faster permitting and more grid investment. In the Netherlands, the cabinet set out its crisis legislation for grid congestion with the first measures taking effect from 2027. and in Finland, grid operators continue their large-scale renewal programs towards the 2036 security of supply targets. On the other hand, the known constraints are still there. Permits, transmission grid capacity, land to place substations, component deliveries and installation capacity still determine how fast our customers can build today. The NGO Netbeheer Nederland latest progress report captures this well.

6:25 Grid operators are building more than ever but demand for grid capacity is still growing faster than the grid can expand. I'll share one concrete example to illustrate that we see a similar pattern. Our transport distribution stations continue to grow year on year and build times across the sector are coming down. Yet finding locations and permits for these stations remains the bottleneck, as reflected by one of the Dutch grid operators in the media recently. For Alphen, this underlines our view. The long-term need for grid infrastructure is clear and growing. In the near term, however, the pace is set by execution in the field, and that is how we are planning for it.

7:11 Moving to EV charging, where the story this quarter is one of transition, with real signs of progress emerging alongside near-term challenges that we are managing with clear intent. Revenue came in at 26.8 million, a decrease of 6.7%, compared with 28.7 million in Q3 2025. That decline reflects two dynamics running in parallel. The phase-out of our previous generation products, and continued competitive pressure in the residential segment. Neither is unexpected and both are accounted for in the strategic choices we have made to reposition the portfolio for the long term. What is encouraging is that we have a new platform and it is beginning to deliver.

7:59 The phased introduction of new features throughout 26 is starting to pay off in a tangible way. most visibly in the year-on-year growth in the business segment where our EVE double plus product is gaining clear traction. Seeing growth there in the face of broader revenue pressure is a meaningful signal. On volume, we delivered 25,850 charge points in the quarter, a decrease of 10.6% compared with the 28,900 delivered in Q3 2025. Geographically, 60% of our EV charging revenue was generated outside the Netherlands, which speaks to the breadth of our pan-European footprint and underscores that we are not dependent upon a single country.

8:50 Gross margin was 40.9% compared with 43.1% in Q3 2025, with the modest compression reflecting ongoing sales campaigns. Importantly, the margin remained above the midpoint of our 35.45 guidance range, which we view as a solid outcome given the current environment. We are clear eyed about the work still ahead in this segment, but the strategic direction is set. The new platform is gaining traction and we remain confident in the path back to growth. Moving on to the market context of EV charging. Electric vehicle adoption in Europe accelerated in the third quarter. Battery electric registrations grew by 55% year on year on average and every market on this chart grew. France more than doubled and Germany was up 77%. EV registrations in our core markets are back on track.

9:49 After a slower first half year, the Netherlands grew by 51% and Belgium by 34%. This acceleration is happening while European policy is uncertain. The European Commission has proposed to soften the 2035 targets for new cars, and that discussion is still ongoing. Yet the market keeps moving forward. First, buyers now have a much wider choice of more affordable electric models. Second, batteries keep getting better and cheaper, which means more range, faster charging and lower prices. and third, higher fuel prices make driving on electricity even more attractive. Finally, the fourth point, EV charging infrastructure is more accessible and reliable.

10:40 In some, EVs have a better total cost of ownership and are more convenient. And that is why uptake is becoming structural rather than driven by regulation alone. For Alphen, this makes the trend irreversible and supports underlying demand for charging infrastructure across our markets, independent of the direction of the European debate. Turning now to energy storage systems, where the headline revenue number requires some context to be read correctly and where the underlying story is considerably more positive than it might first appear. Revenue in Q3 was 18.3 million, a decrease of 30.4% compared to 26.3 million in Q3 2025.

11:28 That decline is a direct consequence of phasing, not demand. The large projects that reached completion this quarter had their revenue recognized progressively throughout the first half of the year as components were placed onsite and construction advanced. By the time we reached Q3, the bulk of that revenue had already been booked. This front-loading was anticipated and it is fully consistent with how we have guided the market to think about the shape of our energy storage revenue across 26. Running alongside that, mobile storage systems continue to deliver significant year-on-year growth, a part of the business that is scaling with real momentum in the last 12 months. driven by power rental companies that take our batteries all over Europe, replacing diesel generators at construction sites, events, charging hubs and temporary projects, providing reliable and clean power.

12:26 Going forward, this segment should supply the energy storage business with a more stable base load revenue. On gross margin, the picture is genuinely strong. Margin came in at 37.1% compared with 18.2% in Q3 2025, well above our expected range of 15% to 25%. This was driven by the release of one-off project continuancies upon the completion of several large projects combined with meaningful cost efficiency improvements in executed projects. We are transparent that this level of margin is not the run rate expectation for that segment, but it does reflect the quality of execution our teams have delivered on these projects.

13:14 Turning to backlog, which grew to 109 million at 30 September 26, up from 93 million at the end of the first half. That growth was driven in large part by orders secured early in the quarter and the backlog is now split 23 million for the remainder of 26 and 86 million carrying into 27. Orders signed in Q4 will add further to the 2027 revenue base. The underlying pipeline gives us confidence in our ambition to close the year with a backlog above the 127 million level, which we held at the end of 2025. For the remainder of the year, we are actively focused on converting those opportunities before year end.

14:02 The fundamentals of this market remain compelling. Let me now turn to project delivery, where we have reached significant milestones that strengthened our execution track record. with Return Antares and NOP Agerwind now in operation, Alphen has delivered the three largest operational battery energy storage systems in the Netherlands to date, measured by capacity. Together, these represent 180 megawatts and 522 megawatt hours of capacity. Return Antares in Waddingen, Spain is the largest of the three at 100 megawatts and 200 megawatt hours. It has been operational since the end of September and is connected to the transmission grid. NOP Agerwind in Espel followed one week later, 49 megawatts and 196 megawatt hours, co-located with wind power and delivered turnkey.

15:03 Flevobest in Dronten has been running since November last year. At 126 MWh it was the largest system in the country when it went live. Three sites with three different connections and setups, all brought into operation within a year. That is the execution capability customers look for as projects grow in scale and time to operation becomes an increasingly important criterion. In total, Alphen has now delivered 2.8 gigawatt hours of battery storage to date and our role does not end at energization. All three systems are covered by long-term service agreements in line with our ambition to be a reliable lifecycle partner for utility scale storage in Europe and support the build-up of a recurring revenue stream further.

15:52 With that, I'd like to hand over the call to Bart who will talk you through the financials. Bart.

15:58 Yeah, thank you Mike and also good morning from my side. I will now walk you through our financial performance indeed for the third quarter. Starting with our top line in the third quarter, we delivered a revenue level of 99.1 million compared with the 104.1 million in the prior year. A strong performance in smart grid solutions was offset by a decrease in EV charging and energy storage systems. As we have previously communicated, the energy storage revenue has been front-loaded in 2026 and this quarter's performance reflects that pattern. Our adjusted gross margin increased slightly and reached 30.5 million equal to 30.8% of revenue compared with 29.9 million or 28.7% in Q3 2025.

16:49 The group gross margin was strong this quarter, in part due to an outperformance of the energy storage systems compared to its expected range. EV charging and SGS reported within their expected ranges. Operating expenses increased by 12.7% to 26.7 million compared with 23.7 million in Q3 2025, predominantly driven by a 10% increase in personnel expenses resulting from our ongoing transformation. These amounted to 19.6 million compared with 17.8 million in Q3 2025. This effect was planned for. The other operating expenses were 6.8 million and remained broadly stable throughout 2026.

17:38 Our EBITDA came in at 3.9 million, down from 6.2 million last year. As only a minor adjustment of 0.1 million was recorded, the adjusted EBITDA resulted in 4 million, equal to 4% of revenue, compared with 6.9 million or 6.7% of revenue in the comparable prior year period. We saw a deleverage effect during the quarter, but again, all within expectations. From a cash flow perspective, we generated 1.2 million in cash flow from operating activities. Overall, we remained in a net cash position at the end of the quarter. And lastly, I'm pleased to share that we signed a renewed credit facility agreement with the bank for three years until October 2029 with two one year extension options. The revolving credit facility of 50 million, the guarantee facility of 80 million and its financial covenants remain unchanged.

18:36 The size fits the company's expected working capital needs. Securing this agreement well ahead of majority strengthens Alphen's financial foundation and gives the flexibility to execute our strategy. It also reflects the continued confidence our banking partner in the business. With that, I'll now hand over the call back to Michael who will walk you through our outlook.

19:03 Thank you, Bart. Let me now bring together our outlook for the remainder of 2026 and share our thinking on what lies ahead. We are reiterating our full 2026 guidance and with three quarters now behind us, we have good visibility on where we expect to land. revenues expected to come in within the upper half of our 435 to 475 million guidance range a position supported by a strong year-to-date performance and the backlog we have in place across our business lines our business line guidance for full year 2026 remains unchanged Smart Grid Solutions is expected to deliver revenue growth across both grid operator products and project sales for the full year.

19:54 In EV charging, we are working hard to return the business to growth, but we are being realistic. Given the ongoing portfolio transition, we expect a revenue decline for the full year. In energy storage systems, we expect full year revenue to grow year on year underpinned by the backlog already in place. On profitability, adjusted EBITDA margin is expected to be in the lower half of our 4% to 7% guidance range. This reflects the full year revenue mix shift towards smart grid solutions and energy storage systems, both of which carry lower margins than EV charging. as well as the continued investment in our transformation.

20:42 We remain disciplined on capital allocation and CAPEX will stay below 4% of revenue. Stepping back, 2026 is a year of deliberate and fundamental transformation. The decisions we are making this year in our portfolio, our platform, our organization and our operational capabilities are designed to build a stronger, more resilient Alphen for the years ahead. They come with near-term costs and we are not shying away from that, but we are making them with conviction. Looking into 2027, we are confident that the combination of this transformation and our outlined growth strategies will reignite consistent profitable growth. We expect to deliver year on year improvements in both revenue and adjusted EBITDA margin. And the building blocks for that are increasingly visible across all three of our business lines.

21:43 With that, I'd like to open the floor for your questions. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we are now ready to take your questions. If you wish to ask a question, please press pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. The first question comes from Nikita Papacho from Deutsche Bank. Your line is now open.

22:08 Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I would have three. The first one is on your elevated personal costs in Q3. Should we expect the same level in Q4 as well? The second one is on your full year 26 margin guidance. Taking the lower end of the guidance would lead to a negative Q4 margin. Do you have any comments here? Would you rule it out and say a low but positive number? And the third one is on your 2027 outlook. I mean you stick to your expectations that 2027 will show positive developments versus 2026. Can you walk us through the main improvements you expect for this? Thank you.

22:50 Yeah, thanks for the questions, Nikita. I might take the first two and then on the outlook I give the floor to Michael, obviously. Yeah, on the personnel cost. So during the H1 publication, we mentioned an increase of the personnel costs year on year and H2 versus H1 in 2026. Personnel costs including direct labor, so really relating to activity mix, but also indirect staff. and talk about the latter that has been for us a continuous balance, so the indirect stuff, continuous balance between progressing on the transformation at the one hand and strict cost control. And I guess in Q3 we found that balance, so cost levels were in control compared to H1.

23:39 and we strive to keep them in their control obviously also for Q4. So if we would do well in that respect, H2 would be give and take the same as H1 as we see it now. That's on the personnel cost. Then on the margin development, basically explained by Michael, we reiterate the outlook and gave some specific guidance on that margin item, namely in the lower part of the bandwidth. The final result at the end of this year is basically dependent upon revenue level, but especially mix at the moment. The ability to cover our organizational cost to a well extent and the personnel cost in general compared to last year, like I said, higher than last year due to the transformation.

24:36 Please recognize that in Q3, you might have seen that we had some one-off, positive one-off effects in our energy storage business. They won't come back in the fourth quarter. So all in all, I really don't want to give an exact number here, but the dynamics underlying these I just mentioned, lower part of the bandwidth.

24:58 Thanks, Bart. On the third question, the outlook for 2027, we really spent quite some time in 2026 making sure that the business internally is set up for success. As we described earlier, we spent quite some time on culture and structure. The structure is now in place in terms of the business unit setup. and the culture we defined our principles, our guiding behaviors and also our purpose. We are living that now and what we see is that everything is measured against those, the purpose and those behaviors. And on the structure, what we see is that As the business units become more mature in their operating, we start to see efficiencies there, which really also bring some additional benefits in terms of higher margins.

25:56 our full 2027 outlook we said profitable growth it means compared to 2026 we expect to make a step up for revenue but we also expect to make a step up in terms of EBITDA and I'm really happy to give guidance on that at our next earnings call in early 27. thank you very much The following question comes from Luc van Beek from De Groof. Please go ahead, your line is open.

26:30 Yes, good morning. A couple of questions. First on energy storage systems, which obviously was very fondant loaded this year. Can you give any, also mentioned that you see a higher base load and a more stable pattern going forward. But based on your current order book, should we expect a more stable pattern in travel, or will it also be front-end loaded? Can you give some guidance on that? Then, in the press release, you mentioned the supply situation. Can you elaborate on which components that involves, and if you see any impact on your input prices and gross margins going forward? Then thirdly, on the personnel costs, you mentioned that you are now having a balance between cost control and basically the investments in the transition.

27:19 Would that also mean that once the transition is complete, your run rate of personnel costs could be at a current level even below? And finally, can you comment on the mixed effect of gross margin in EV charging and especially If you see that, if you experience any support from the new models that are more efficient to produce and may generate a higher margin.

27:52 I'm sorry, look at the last question. Could you repeat that one? We didn't quite hear.

27:58 The gross margin in EV charging, if there's a positive effect from the move to the new generation of chargers and new platform.

28:05 Okay, wonderful. I'm happy to take the first question on ESS and then I think the second and third question for Bart. First one on ESS front loading. As mentioned, what we see is for the mobile batteries, we see the volume increasing and that starts to provide a nice stable and predictable base load for our battery system business. But there is a however, and that is if we score one or two of the larger projects that are now also in our pipeline, they do have a quarter on quarter effect. If they are towards the end of the year, they can even have a year on year effect, which we try to mitigate by having a smoother project accounting.

28:56 But I cannot eliminate fully that there is some quarterly effect of large battery systems still to be seen in 27.

29:02 And a quick follow up for batteries. How much of your revenues is that now in ESS?

29:12 Still, I'm a little reluctant to give specifics there, but I think what we see is that it is becoming more significant and it starts to be a base load. Perhaps we can have a look at that later and come back to you on that.

29:31 Yeah, thanks. And then indeed on the question of the supply market is something we carefully follow and monitor. We recognize constraints in e-components, in transformers, inverters. leading to higher prices and basically also longer lead times. No material effect for this year, but more next year. And if we foresee, we build up stock, like I said earlier, inventory, but not across the board, very focused on specifically the components we need. So that might be the answer on that question. Cost control, indeed.

30:20 Direct and indirect personnel, H2 versus H1. The indirect stuff very much related to the transformation, which we run. Transformation won't be over before Christmas and we continue to transform but the broader effort involved will decrease as of course the size is now and the main focus is for 2026. So throughout the year and especially throughout the early part of 2027 we will decrease effort and result in also decrease personnel cost there.

31:03 I think there was one question from Lucky that was regarding the gross margin on EVC.

31:08 Yeah, so there is this mixed effect of phase out of the old of the current models on the old platform and the phase in of especially the business charges on the new platform. That has a mixed effect, a net effect on not only Revu, but especially also Gross March, and that's what you see. Trust will continue to see the net effect and that change also for the coming quarters. For Q3, we ended up well in the middle of the range we gave earlier. and that range we keep going forward, obviously.

31:56 Thank you. The next question comes from Ruben de Vos from Kepler-Chevreux. Please go ahead.

32:07 Good morning. I have a question on EV charging. I think in your slide deck you show European battery electric vehicle registrations going up 55% in Q3 with the Netherlands and Belgium rebounding. Of course, your charge point deliveries, I think they fell 11%. I mean, it seems like business growing. So the pressure seems to be in residential, right? So maybe looking at 27 as well, when do you expect units to return to growth here? And how much could the home charger change in 27? Thank you.

32:49 Morning Ruben, thanks for the question. What is indeed interesting is that on the software platform side we see the stability and the features that we wanted coming in across the portfolio and on the business charges indeed we saw stronger commercial traction with growth there in volume and revenue. We just launched the home charger last week. And as we start to ramp up for mass production and delivery, we would expect to see an effect of that in 2027. And of course, we're excited about it. We've put a huge effort into making a smart charger with all the features that the market now expects and highly competitive and now all hands on deck to make it into a reality.

33:41 but you're indeed right that's the residential segment of the home charger is where we want to fight quite strongly and we would expect to see volumes that are noticeable also in these calls from Q2

33:57 onwards next year. Okay and roughly what share of EVC revenue is now in business versus residential?

34:06 I think we have not disclosed that detail before. I think as we go into next year, we have to see if we could make something a little more detail available.

34:21 And then on that Eve software platform, how many are now connected and do you expect software to show up as a revenue line here?

34:37 Software per se I don't think will show up as a revenue line directly. What I can say is that the AHP platform on which the new charges run has been in place from after summer 2020 5, so last year. And the Eve single plus and the Eve double plus were the first charges on that new platform. And so everything, if you go back since then, all those new deliveries are on that new platform. So the total sum is from around September last year, that volume until today.

35:13 Okay, okay. And then maybe just one on SGS, smart grids. I mean the deliveries were up 19% again and El Camo had a record. I think there was also like a report from Netbeheer which is saying that basically the grid operators are building more than ever, right? with quite a catalyst in 27 as well for in terms of legislation so yeah what visibility do you have maybe on the grid operator in the Netherlands for next year and do you have the capacity basically in both the Netherlands and in Finland to grow let's say double digit in volumes

35:55 I like the sound of double digits. From our capacity point of view, certainly we are ready and we are prepared for that growth. We've seen that, of course, coming for quite a while. The two big questions that remain and which we tried to reflect as well in the webcast this morning is permitting speed and execution speed at the grid companies. Those are external to us in terms of bottlenecks for the deployment of the substations. But we are able to scale as the market grows.

36:31 Okay. And then just very quickly like does El Camo carry actually a different margin from the Dutch business here?

36:40 I would say it's similar to a slightly higher and you know it's a it's a it's our subsidiary 100% Alphen subsidiary but it's kept at arm's length so slightly different setup costs.

37:00 Okay all right that's it from my side thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from Thijs Hollestelle from ING. Please go ahead, your line is open.

37:14 Thanks, Oprette. Good morning, gentlemen. I also have a follow-up question on the EV chargers. I think in the press release you mentioned the revenue per charger rose 4%, that is quarter on quarter. That I think was also the trend in the second quarter. I guess that is also a direct impact of the more complex, more feature-carrying charges you introduced already. So the way I understand is you also have commercial introductions planned for these charges in end of Q1 next year, early second quarter. So strength of this average selling price in the charging business continue well into also the second half of 2027. And of course, I know that You don't have full visibility on the mix but basically all things equal with the introduction of your new models.

38:08 Is that kind of the trend we have to follow? That's my first question.

38:14 Thanks, Thijs. I think the question there is indeed we reported this 4% increase. The business charger and public chargers have a different price point than the home charger, the residential segment. What we see as a general trend is that the home segment has on average lower pricing. And so if we start to sell more home chargers, we would expect the average price of our chargers to be slightly lower.

38:45 Is it fair to assume that with your new products that you are able to win much larger projects in these days? The consumer business is more like one by one following more general market trends. Now you have a new product so you should be able to get significant volume orders from these public charge operators.

39:17 I understand the question on specifically the home. It is a residential product, but you are right. If we are able to address the needs of fleet operators, larger parks, then we would look at having bigger projects with larger volumes in one go. The average price of those home chargers would still be lower. On the public chargers and business chargers, we would expect that it would still continue in the same way. For us, the mix effect would still be a slightly lower price. When you look at public charging specifically, it's a tender business. It's not sales of one-off.

40:05 And we make public when we win tenders and with whom we do that. And those are then called off over several years. Different market dynamic and I don't foresee any major shifts for the moment.

40:20 Okay, thank you. And then I also had a question responding, let's say, to your comment on, oh yeah, you expect the order backlog at the end of the fourth quarter to be above 27 million at the end of last year. So that's quite a significant order intake. How concrete is that? Sorry, halfway through the fourth quarter. Can you comment on that, please?

40:47 Sure I think of course we have a pipeline of projects that we are for which we have submitted quotations where we are negotiations with customers and if we and we do like all businesses we do a waiting on our expected win rate historically and looking forward of those of that pipeline and with that in place we are confident that we reach the 127 million or higher. But we still have to work through the next eight weeks left of this year to close that. Of course, ongoing efforts. It's an everyday effort. So with what we already had as backlog and what we see as the pipeline and where we stand with negotiations, we're comfortable that we reach the numbers.

41:42 Okay, that's helpful. And is there some kind of seasonality in this client behavior tendering towards the end of the year for this business?

41:52 No, not really. What I think is important here is that that business is also becoming internationally attractive for us and we have projects in the Netherlands and in the countries around us and I think the skill set that we have developed for those type of larger projects now sets us up also for success for larger projects in the countries around us. We've shown that we can do that in the Netherlands. We have international track record with smaller projects already and mid-sized projects and now we're really eager also to do larger projects internationally.

42:38 Okay, it's helpful. And then one final question for Bart, I guess. You mentioned that the business remained into a net cash position at the end of September. You gave the cash flow number in the press release, but was it higher or lower than the net cash position at the end of June? 6.2 million it was.

43:05 Thanks, Thijs. It was give and take comparable. So compared to the cash position in June we slightly decreased but just minor changes here just following the normal working capital development and as a result also the net cash position given they're comparable with H1 And is that also the right assumption towards the year-end position? We said earlier in half year and I think I repeat that the ambition is to end up at least cash flow neutral, preferably cash flow positive throughout the year compared to the liquidity position last year.

43:53 very much dependent upon the ESS ordering so if we just would win the tenders and we would need to procure just before Christmas in order to deliver in the first half of next year and then that would of course have an impact on the cash although for all those projects we really try to structure them in a cash neutral way in general so our ambition still remains the same at least cash flow neutral yeah

44:21 Perfect. Thank you very much.

44:23 Thanks, Thijs. The following question comes from Thijs Berkelder from ABN AMRO-OdoBHF. Your line is open. Please.

44:35 Yeah, morning. Follow up on the cash flow from operations. You're reporting the 1.2 million. Can you explain what the working capital effect in that 1.2 million has been? And if I, let's say, exclude energy storage from the picture, I conclude the CFFO of the other segments is negative. Yeah, follow up on the previous question. Indeed with you're expecting 27 to come back to growth, which probably would mean you need to increase working capital. So we'll first see quite some cash out. before you hopefully can cash in later in 2027. Maybe some comments there.

45:39 Then on EV charging, saying an impact from the new charging platform from Q2 onwards. Should that already be visible in Q2 or only thereafter? and my third question is on the very large substations, the Panic article from Inexis in the press on that the rollout is not taking off because of all kinds of permitting restrictions. What are your expectations on the rollout of very large substations next year?

46:25 Thank you, Thijs. I think I wrote down one, two, three, four, five questions. I think the first three to be taken by Bart.

46:37 Thanks. Thanks. Let me address the point of working capital. No major changes compared to H1, basically stable throughout during the quarter. following the normal elements on receivables, trades, our tax position. So it's basically on par there. I'm afraid I missed the second point.

47:05 I think Thijs asked about if we exclude ESS, do you then see negative cash flow for the other businesses? That was my understanding of the question.

47:17 Not for the third quarter. Again, the working capital development was hardly there compared to H1. Just normal, not very much relating to a specific business. I understand where you come from. Of course, we win orders and we procure them. That has an impact on working capital, at least on cash position. That was not the case for the third quarter. the more we win, the more cash flow shrinks we see. Again, although we really aim to structure also in the beginning cash neutrality in that sense.

47:54 Okay, then a question on the 2027.

47:58 Sorry, but going forward working capital.

48:04 I think the question was about 2027. Yes. So in 27, I think we are looking to be, we said we strive for neutrality, especially because the biggest swings are in the ESS area.

48:25 Yeah, so from where we are now, we continue to really focus on strict control of our working capital elements. That is one. It comes to our payables, accounts receivable positions and we do that together with the full management team now which is in place our view directors are in place so that's super super helpful and it's paying off I just I see that happening towards the year-end normal pattern in that sense as our business will for the coming 8 to 10 weeks will simply evolve towards year end. If we again win orders on ESS and that has a procurement effect, then we will see that in our working capital position.

49:17 and that could then impact the current cash position for 2027. We basically don't give a detailed outlook there. It's following the activity mix in which we have more visibility in the coming period and we'll also explain in more detail to the market during the full year publication FAP next year.

49:41 Okay, and then Thijs regarding your question on the Eve home launch and the visibility for revenue in Q2. Yes, I believe that we should be able to see an effect from Q2. So that's in the Q2 earnings, we should be able to come back and have a discussion about that. And then your last question regarding Annexes. Yes, of course, we also saw their article. Our outlook for the larger distribution stations is actually cautiously optimistic. We see growth, we are planning for growth.

50:29 Our supply chain is ready. We have a close alignment with Ennexus on the development of these projects and teams there. And what we see is that the ramp up is indeed slower than initially planned, but steadily increasing. And it's gaining sufficient attention from government, both local and central government to allow us to plan for a larger volume for next year. Thank you. There might be also a political push needed to make this happen. We are confident that this will change. All right. The following question comes from Jeremy Kincaid from Van Lansbroek-Gambo. Please go ahead.

51:34 Good morning, gentlemen. I'd just like to ask a few more questions about this new home charger just so I understand what's happening correctly. So have you completely stopped production of the old model? And so now you're just producing a new model. Do you still have and the inventory of the old model you need to sell down. If so, how much do you have? If I understood the question correctly or the response correctly, are you selling this new charger at a lower price point than the previous home model? But if I understood correctly, the margins are still the same approximately. And then you mentioned that the should happen in the second quarter next year.

52:22 What's the delay? Why won't the ramp-ups happen in the first quarter? Is there a marketing push you could do to accelerate this? Yeah, curious on your thoughts. Thanks.

52:37 Thanks, Jeremy. I think quite a number of questions there. On the first one, on the old models, yes, of course, we're not stopping our old business as we ramp up a new product. So there will be overlap period where we have both available. And customers are also adjusting. People have been working with us for over 15 years. giving them the opportunity to build out their projects with similar products sometimes just for simple reasons that they want only one look and feel on their parking lot so we're doing that gently and allowing customers to make the change with us and so we still have some inventory there and allows us to keep delivering and of course we have our obligations for Spare parts and maintenance for the coming 10 years on all those products that we've delivered to the market.

53:40 Then I think in terms of the home product, it is a new design aimed to be even more competitive in the market and we would expect that competitive aggressive level to also give us the momentum for growth in that segment and this is something that I think in a commoditizing market, everyone expects that as well to happen. and then your last question regarding the ramp up. We announced the charger formally last week. Ongoing effort with customers for testing, for validation, for initial series production. That's all ongoing work.

54:31 I think we said mass production and deliveries start from early Q2, and just because historically, again, similar to the financial figures that we are presenting you today, we want stability, predictability, and really doing things properly in this market because we need to regain our footing and show growth.

54:58 Thank you.

55:00 Thank you. All right. It appears we have no more questions coming in. So I would like to give the call back over to Mr. Colijn for any closing remarks.

55:16 Thank you everybody for joining us today. I'm really looking forward to sharing with you our full year results on Wednesday, 17th of February, 2027.